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AnonSpore posted:Vision shot to disable Falcon's jetpack, but he'd still have had his wings so he would have been able to make a controlled fall/glide to the ground and most likely be largely alright, instead of free falling straight down encased in hundreds of pounds of metal As an aside, I was annoyed that they showed you that bit in the trailer and I spent the whole film waiting for it but since they'd made it look like Bucky shot him down I was actually surprised when it happened.
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May 15, 2016 02:44
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My Lovely Horse posted:I always say watching The Dark Knight, one day I'm gonna sit down and work out what everyone's schemes would have looked like in the planning stage, and if they don't look incredibly flimsy and far-fetched then. I think it was in one of the Cracked podcasts where they did this for, I think, Friday the 13th Part 2, and just following the events of the movie from the perspective of the bad guy turns it into complete nonsense. But you can do the same thing for a ton of movies, because they rely on the audience sharing the protagonist's perspective and not questioning what the antagonists would have to have done to end up where they need to be.
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May 15, 2016 05:45
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Nuebot posted:Himself? I think a lot of it, is that since Avengers 1, he's been blaming himself more and more and his comic book "PTSD" isn't helping. He's trying to be a futurist, looking out for the world, but not only does he continually invite people to come attack him and the people he loves, but the stuff he does in attempts to fix things constantly blows up in his face in catastrophic ways.. Now, here he is again, and his friends are "betraying" and abandoning him, and he's becoming more and more irrational and emotional as it goes on. Throughout Civil War, Tony isn't the jokey, cool guy, anymore, at least not until he got into the suit during the battle. Through out it, he's just constantly agitated, worried, he might make some jokes, but he's also a guy who carries Iron Man tech to peace summits, and restricted locations, because he's too afraid to be without it. I think that's part of the reason why he's looking and agreeing to Government overlook, or UN stuff, so it's not on his head anymore. If the Avengers can't go to _____ because the government says so, it's not on his head. If they do go, and something happens, it's because they were requested to be there and the risks were weighed, and his people would be protected. Pepper left him because he can't stop building Iron Man suits, even after he destroyed them all after IM III. He can't stop obsessing. When he blasts Falcon, it's the cracks starting to show, Falcon was down there to look after Rhodey, everyone had pretty much stopped fighting at that point and Falcon was non-aggressive with his defenses completely down, worried too much about Rhodey to even give a poo poo about the fight. Tony blames himself, and he's afraid, afraid that more people will get hurt, his friends, innocent people, and it'll be his fault, he'd never admit it, but it feels like it's there. He just doubles down on his ideas, because his rationale is more black and white.
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May 15, 2016 06:04
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PicklePants posted:I think a lot of it, is that since Avengers 1, he's been blaming himself more and more and his comic book "PTSD" isn't helping. He's trying to be a futurist, looking out for the world, but not only does he continually invite people to come attack him and the people he loves, but the stuff he does in attempts to fix things constantly blows up in his face in catastrophic ways.. Now, here he is again, and his friends are "betraying" and abandoning him, and he's becoming more and more irrational and emotional as it goes on. I don't often weigh in, in this thread, but I just wanted to say that I am one of the (few?) people still pro-Tony after the film and I feel like this was a really excellent explanation of why I feel that way.
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May 15, 2016 06:40
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People aren't supposed to be pro-Cap after the movie either. It's a little scary how many are just 100% in his corner.
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May 15, 2016 07:20
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Who says they aren't supposed to be pro-cap?
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May 15, 2016 07:22
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The filmmakers. (Death of the author is bullshit.)
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May 15, 2016 07:23
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I like Captain America
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May 15, 2016 07:28
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 This is something that bugs me in so many movies, where someone has a ranged weapon but insists on getting into close quarters. You're Iron Man, shoot them with your anti-tank missiles from low earth orbit you bloody fool 
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May 15, 2016 07:37
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Gorilla Salad posted:
I'm asking since this was in the trailer but did you see the movie? Tony did not insist on getting in close quarters one iota.
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May 15, 2016 08:48
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After the whole "Hydra infiltrated every level of government" thing I can understand why Cap maybe doesn't want the UN telling him what he can and can't do.
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May 15, 2016 16:38
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Imagine if the Avengers had been under UN oversight from the start. If the UN says "don't go to New York" the world ends. If the UN says "Don't go to Sokovia" the world ends. Sure, Tony doesn't have to feel guilty about making the decision, but counterpoint the world loving ended.
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May 15, 2016 17:05
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rydiafan posted:Imagine if the Avengers had been under UN oversight from the start. If the UN says "don't go to New York" the world ends. If the UN says "Don't go to Sokovia" the world ends. Sure, Tony doesn't have to feel guilty about making the decision, but counterpoint the world loving ended. This assumes that the UN would say that, and that's a pretty stupid assumption.
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May 15, 2016 18:33
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Not really, considering the acting authority figures in Avengers 1 just wanted to nuke manhattan and call it a day.
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May 15, 2016 18:36
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Who What Now posted:This assumes that the UN would say that, and that's a pretty stupid assumption. Dude it's the UN, procedural delays alone would keep approval from getting out in time.
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May 15, 2016 18:36
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Ignite Memories posted:Not really, considering the acting authority figures in Avengers 1 just wanted to nuke manhattan and call it a day. Probably because they didn't have any freak people who could punch all the jörmungandrs flying around.
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May 15, 2016 18:44
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I'm Team Black Widow. She did the best thing in every circumstance.
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May 15, 2016 20:35
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The whole point is that everyone's acting for the best from their own perspective, even the bad guy, and thank gently caress the movie managed that better than the comic book storyline.
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May 15, 2016 20:50
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Aleph Null posted:I'm Team Black Widow. She did the LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I don't often weigh in, in this thread, but I just wanted to say that I am one of the (few?) people still pro-Tony after the film and I feel like this was a really excellent explanation of why I feel that way. Can I be pro-Tony because RDJ is horrendously entertaining as Stark and I want to see more?
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May 16, 2016 01:19
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One cliche I hope dies a terrible death is the, "superhero that's burdened by all his amazing powers." Just once I want a movie where the hero embraces how loving awesome having super powers would be.
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May 16, 2016 01:29
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Ant Man seems largely capable of that in the MCU, and Thor is only burdened by the responsibilities of being a future-king. In the comics, guys like Deadpool and Iron Fist revel in how awesome their abilities are.
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May 16, 2016 01:55
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Spider-Man reveled in how cool everyone's powers were at least!
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May 16, 2016 02:08
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JT Smiley posted:One cliche I hope dies a terrible death is the, "superhero that's burdened by all his amazing powers." Just once I want a movie where the hero embraces how loving awesome having super powers would be. Deadpool hates the circumstances of acquiring his powers but loves using them in New and disgusting ways.
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May 16, 2016 02:13
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JT Smiley posted:One cliche I hope dies a terrible death is the, "superhero that's burdened by all his amazing powers." Just once I want a movie where the hero embraces how loving awesome having super powers would be. I hope that's what the new spiderman movie will be. Since they're presumably skipping the origin story this time, it'll just be spiderman being spiderman and having fun. I want Mysterio to be the villain, I really do.
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May 16, 2016 02:26
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JT Smiley posted:One cliche I hope dies a terrible death is the, "superhero that's burdened by all his amazing powers." Just once I want a movie where the hero embraces how loving awesome having super powers would be. This is one of the things that I loved about the first Captain America movie. That and the fact that he didn't go through that "oh now I've got superpowers so I gotta learn not to be a total dickwad" story arc that everyone else does. Nope, he gets his powers because he's already a good person.
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May 16, 2016 02:29
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JT Smiley posted:One cliche I hope dies a terrible death is the, "superhero that's burdened by all his amazing powers." Just once I want a movie where the hero embraces how loving awesome having super powers would be. So you want Iron Man 1?
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May 16, 2016 02:35
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Who What Now posted:This assumes that the UN would say that, and that's a pretty stupid assumption. The government tried to nuke New York instead of letting the Avengers fight aliens. They seem to be of the opinion that the Avengers should have just let Ultron. Shield got taken over by Hydra and built a mass assassination machine that almost killed thousands. In Ironman 3 the vice president was working with the terrorists. So yeah the Avengers should probably not be super jazzed about the government telling them what to do.
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May 16, 2016 02:56
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Dr_Amazing posted:The government tried to nuke New York instead of letting the Avengers fight aliens. I can think of at least on occasion when the avengers were forced to be under oversight and they were told what they could and couldn't do. It got to a point were they had to use a bus to get from place to place
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May 16, 2016 03:46
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They later revealed that one of the guys who was pushing for NYC to be nuked in Avengers (Powers Booth) was a high level Hydra leader so that probably doesn't help for the whole "accountability" thing.
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May 16, 2016 03:50
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muscles like this? posted:They later revealed that one of the guys who was pushing for NYC to be nuked in Avengers (Powers Booth) was a high level Hydra leader so that probably doesn't help for the whole "accountability" thing. Sure sounds like they should be working with the government then to ensure the government doesn't get infiltrated by Hydra then, now doesn't it?
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May 16, 2016 04:26
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Dr_Amazing posted:The government tried to nuke New York instead of letting the Avengers fight aliens. That's all the US.
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May 16, 2016 05:04
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Hail Hydra
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May 16, 2016 05:17
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EmmyOk posted:Spider-Man reveled in how cool everyone's powers were at least! He only had the one worry, inexplicably hot aunt.
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May 16, 2016 05:26
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Dr_Amazing posted:So yeah the Avengers should probably not be super jazzed about the government telling them what to do. It was like they were having a big disagreement over "we hosed up, now what do we do?" when they didn't gently caress up in the first place, and for some reason Cap doesn't just go with the obvious defense of "we did the right thing." It's worse because the big theme is that they aren't being careful and causing too much collateral damage, but the AoU "zero casualty" maneuvering was there to emphasize exactly the opposite.
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May 16, 2016 07:58
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Well, they ~did~ save everyone in the city, just not the people left on the ground underneath the city when it came tumbling down. It's weird, but considering Avengers and AoU it seems like the main bitch point of Civil War was collateral damage for property.
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May 16, 2016 09:26
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I thought that the point of that scene was that even though the Avengers did their very best to save as many people as they could in Age of Ultron, they still didn't save everyone. They made it a point to explicitly show them working hard not just to beat Ultron, but to save those caught in the crossfire. And then in Civil War they showed that even that wasn't enough. It was a small bit of realism that I liked, and the whole movie is based around it.
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May 16, 2016 12:00
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Ultimately it's less 'the avengers need oversight' and more 'tony stark personally needs oversight'.
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May 16, 2016 14:16
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Tony Stark has daddy issues and he needs someone to swat his bottom and tell him to behave.
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May 16, 2016 14:45
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Serf posted:I thought that the point of that scene was that even though the Avengers did their very best to save as many people as they could in Age of Ultron, they still didn't save everyone. They made it a point to explicitly show them working hard not just to beat Ultron, but to save those caught in the crossfire. And then in Civil War they showed that even that wasn't enough. It was a small bit of realism that I liked, and the whole movie is based around it. Ultron in general is Stark's fault (which everyone seems to have forgotten) but most people just seemed really mad that the Avengers didn't have a literal 100% success rate in saving people from world ending catastrophes. It's not even like there's a gently caress up that everyone is pointing at. It's just people popping up to say "Someone I knew died at that disaster, so gently caress you for some reason." It'd be like in the wake of 9/11 if everyone ignored the terrorists and got mad at the first responders for not being able to save every person in the tower.
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May 16, 2016 15:27
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If the general public are conflating SHIELD and the Avengers, then it's a little more understandable.
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May 16, 2016 15:39
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