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This is a good post.
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May 21, 2016 20:32
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That is eerily in sync.
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May 21, 2016 20:40
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Collateral Damage posted:That is eerily in sync. So, it looks like the tables are bolted in place then? Also, what happens when the inevitable glitches occur and I don't get what I ordered or what I got wasn't how I ordered it? The wait staff has already trundled off to the next table. And don't tell me said rear end in a top hat who opened the restaurant isn't going to short staff FoH.
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May 21, 2016 22:25
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I don't know whether I should feel relieved or disappointed that I won't have to read it twistedmentat posted:This looks like poo poo a kid would come up with based on watching lots and lots of old cartoons where automatic services go wrong. I cannot imagine anything like this being practical, reliable or even affordable. Like all you'd need is one thing to go wrong inside and everything just stops working. See also the almost proverbially hosed up automated baggage handling system at Denver International Airport: http://calleam.com/WTPF/?page_id=2086
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May 21, 2016 22:36
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Bunch of cities used to use pneumatic tubes for mail delivery/telegraphs/etc
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May 22, 2016 02:40
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blugu64 posted:Bunch of cities used to use pneumatic tubes for mail delivery/telegraphs/etc The grocery store i worked at during university had pneumatic tubes for sending cash from the registers up to the cash office.
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May 22, 2016 03:31
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Samizdata posted:Also, what happens when the inevitable glitches occur and I don't get what I ordered or what I got wasn't how I ordered it? The wait staff has already trundled off to the next table. And don't tell me said rear end in a top hat who opened the restaurant isn't going to short staff FoH. e: Also in the video each plate is compartmentalised like a cafeteria slop tray. Really gives you that high class dining feel. 
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May 22, 2016 12:46
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Collateral Damage posted:You know any restaurant running a system like this will have like two people tending a hundred tables, because the entire point of automatic poo poo is so you can get away with less staff. It's perfect for nerds because the different foodstuffs won't touch each other.
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May 22, 2016 13:04
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blugu64 posted:Bunch of cities used to use pneumatic tubes for mail delivery/telegraphs/etc Prague had one until it flooded in 2002 - some rich guy owns it now and has talked about restoring it. Apparently they used it to ship food into the local radio offices when they led a rebellion against the Germans at the end of WW2, which is kind of neat.
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May 22, 2016 13:43
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Collateral Damage posted:You know any restaurant running a system like this will have like two people tending a hundred tables, because the entire point of automatic poo poo is so you can get away with less staff. I went to this thing https://www.zomato.com/abudhabi/rogos-roller-coaster-restaurant-yas-island It was kind of neat I guess, except the food really wasn't very good. Also pointless since it didn't appear to save much in terms of labour, maybe it would if the whole place was jam packed but it wasn't, and this is the UAE where you hire Bangladeshi workers for like $150/month so.
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May 22, 2016 16:08
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Rebel Blob posted:I'm sure this counts under "failed technology," pneumatic tube discussion reminded me of these videos. What if someone built a restaurant around a complicated system of automatic food delivery? Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores.
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May 22, 2016 17:08
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The new wave of automation is probably the biggest reason there's been a push for UBI (and why it's being treated more like a serious policy than a blatant vote for money). I suppose you could say that the entire current economy and societal structure will be listed in this thread soon
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May 22, 2016 17:13
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I'm the cockroaches in the food conduits.
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May 22, 2016 17:20
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Lowen SoDium posted:Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores. lol k
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May 22, 2016 17:25
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They've been trying to push automated stores for years now all over the planet completely regardless of minimum wage. Too bad no-one uses the self-checkout lanes 
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May 22, 2016 17:30
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Lowen SoDium posted:Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores. The whole "completely automated store except for one token human" thing has been predicted "real soon now" since the 50s. We're getting to a point where it's a lot more feasible, but it remains to be seen if it'll actually be done. At Reagan International Airport, the little shop that sells books and snacks and such had self-checkouts... except each self-checkout had an employee standing right next to it to make sure you paid and help when granny inevitably can't figure it out. So why not just give that employee a loving scanner? I don't know.
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May 22, 2016 17:34
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Pham Nuwen posted:The whole "completely automated store except for one token human" thing has been predicted "real soon now" since the 50s. We're getting to a point where it's a lot more feasible, but it remains to be seen if it'll actually be done. It's a phase. Wait until all the old persons die out and the rest will be used to the self-checkouts and then eliminate the human staff. Of course it won't work in the end but that's the idea.
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May 22, 2016 17:37
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Jerry Cotton posted:It's a phase. Wait until all the old persons die out and the rest will be used to the self-checkouts and then eliminate the human staff. Of course it won't work in the end but that's the idea. Theft would skyrocket.
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May 22, 2016 17:58
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Lowen SoDium posted:Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores. Haven't they also had issues with needing to keep the staff on anyways because the self-service machines don't work right all the time?
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May 22, 2016 18:00
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The places I shop that has them seem to get away with something like one person per six self-checkouts, possibly even part-time with a normal lane. The biggest issue is that they have to come over and check your ID for beer and the like.
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May 22, 2016 18:08
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DicktheCat posted:Theft would skyrocket. If it's less cost to the company than hiring a person then they won't care. I'm sure it's in the budget analysis already.
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May 22, 2016 18:22
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You know what needs a pinch of automation is car dealerships. Nobody loving likes anything about buying a car yet no one has really changed the game. My county has like 6 McDonald's so a locale like that, I don't think it makes sense to replace a few of minimum wage employees with robots and some engineers to maintain them at 60k+ salary or whatever. darkhand has a new favorite as of 18:29 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 18:25
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I did see self-checkouts used at the Phipps Plaza movie theater in Atlanta last week, but they still had the exact same number of employees manning the counter to deal with overflow or people paying in cash. You just had touchscreen kiosks at the counter and one or two elsewhere in the mezzanine if you were paying with a card. There's also the flaw that a machine can't really provide customer service or assist customers. Macy's has tons of representatives on the floor helping people pick out stuff and keeping things stocked and orderly, and they just walk over to a nearby desk when someone needs to make a purchase. The human element is also necessary to allow them to remove security tags from clothes. Even if you replaced every counter with a self-checkout touchscreen interface and a device that let the customer remove security tags from their purchased clothes, you'd need most of those people on the floor doing the other parts of their job. And in the few stores and restaurants where you truly can replace all of the customer service with a machine, what happens when a machine fails? Several times in the past year I've seen cash registers break or networks go down, forcing the cashiers to only take cash and use calculators or mental math to make change. If you've got a store that entirely operates on self-checkout, what are you going to do when the network itself crashes or all the machines bluescreen? You can't just shut down your store or restaurant for the day until it all gets fixed. And if you want your backup employees sitting around in the back waiting for them to get called out to assist, you need to pay them for that time. I just don't think the people who fear a self-checkout revolution that destroys the job market are really putting a ton of thought into it. It requires the philosopher to assume perfect operation of every component and zero need for anything a human can perform.
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May 22, 2016 18:33
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Pham Nuwen posted:The whole "completely automated store except for one token human" thing has been predicted "real soon now" since the 50s. We're getting to a point where it's a lot more feasible, but it remains to be seen if it'll actually be done. chitoryu12 posted:Haven't they also had issues with needing to keep the staff on anyways because the self-service machines don't work right all the time? I don't know why they would have a employee at every single self checkout, but go to our local grocery store, or Wal-Mart. They usually have 4 to 8 self service check out lines that have a single person monitoring them for the exceptions. Wanamingo posted:lol k Self Driving cars, deep learning computers, natural language processors, IBM Watson, this thing. The advancements made in the last 10 years have been incredible and it doesn't take a very vivid imagination to see what you could do with these technologies with a few more years of development. Maybe 15 years is too optimistic, but it will happen, I think it will probably happen pretty rapidly. Another example of this, and something that fits into this thread is Medical Transcriptionist jobs. My mother did medical transcription for several years until a few years ago. Very suddenly, the entire transcription market was completely replaced by computerized speech recognition. They laid off almost all of the work force and kept only a few people to verify and edit the computer transcription at substantially reduced pay. This wasn't just one company either. All of them did this. Throughout all of human history, jobs have been replaced by technology, but I really think we are not very long for a automation revolution that is going to effect a lot more people than even the industrial revolution did. chitoryu12 posted:I just don't think the people who fear a self-checkout revolution that destroys the job market are really putting a ton of thought into it. It requires the philosopher to assume perfect operation of every component and zero need for anything a human can perform. I think it's going to effect a lot more than cashiers, self driving cars could completely replace human drivers for taxi services and OTR truck drivers. Maybe I am wrong and there will still be a human presence in retail stores, but I think that it will be a reduced number. Businesses will do as much as they can to reduce their operation cost, and automation helps with that a lot. Lowen SoDium has a new favorite as of 18:50 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 18:41
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Pham Nuwen posted:The whole "completely automated store except for one token human" thing has been predicted "real soon now" since the 50s. We're getting to a point where it's a lot more feasible, but it remains to be seen if it'll actually be done. The idea's been around for 200 years now. The luddite movement was born out of fear that things such as the mechanical loom would force low skilled workers into obsolescence.
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May 22, 2016 18:41
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Lowen SoDium posted:I don't know why they would have a employee at every single self checkout, but go to our local grocery store, or Wal-Mart. They usually have 4 to 8 self service check out lines that have a single person monitoring them for the exceptions. They also have multiple checkout lines with individual cashiers, and during the daily busy times tend to suffer backups because they never hire enough cashiers to staff all the lines and people struggle to get the self-checkout sensors to stop telling them to put an item in the bagging area.
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May 22, 2016 18:49
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Lowen SoDium posted:Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores. Japanese cafeterias have been doing this for years. Instead of having a cashier, you have a vending machine that dispenses meal tickets which you hand to the people preparing the food.
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May 22, 2016 18:54
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Collateral Damage posted:You know any restaurant running a system like this will have like two people tending a hundred tables, because the entire point of automatic poo poo is so you can get away with less staff. Yep, nothing like paying 70bux for a meal that is served in the same kind of thing you get in prison or how a hungry man dinner is packaged.
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May 22, 2016 19:14
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Jerry Cotton posted:They've been trying to push automated stores for years now all over the planet completely regardless of minimum wage. Too bad no-one uses the self-checkout lanes I can imagine if you had a McDonalds or whatever other fast-food app for regulars that they could use on their phone to order, they would. It could be a potential labor savor and it would get around inefficiencies like bottlenecks in the line such as indecisive people in front of you not knowing what they want to order yet. Lowen SoDium posted:
Yet the medical offices went on to hire former transcriptionists as "Quality assurance" clerks - who then listen to the audio and compare it against what the software recorded. I have no idea if this is still a thing, but my mom was in the industry.
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May 22, 2016 19:15
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Collateral Damage posted:You know any restaurant running a system like this will have like two people tending a hundred tables, because the entire point of automatic poo poo is so you can get away with less staff. Well, you know, with the high speed transport, you don't want your corn getting the chipotle bearnaise sauce on it.
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May 22, 2016 19:20
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Powerlurker posted:Japanese cafeterias have been doing this for years. Instead of having a cashier, you have a vending machine that dispenses meal tickets which you hand to the people preparing the food. Some of the local McDonaldses added this and I tried it once. You order and pay through a touchscreen station and get a number, and they call it out on a screen when it's ready. What happened was that they served one meal every 5 minutes and the place was full of people waiting for their orders. On the plus side I don't eat at McDonalds anymore.
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May 22, 2016 19:30
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roffels posted:
I actually started to write something about that when I was writing that post, but left it out because it was 2nd hand information that my mom had told me years ago and I don't remember all the details. From what I remember, she said that these QA jobs were promoted as paying the same rate (transcription work is paid per line of text, I think) but they calculated the number of lines in a QA job differently than if you had typed it. She had done one of the QA position for a short while but quit because it just didn't pay enough.
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May 22, 2016 19:36
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Or instead of speculating how kiosks are going to be the end all of McD's and paid workers, look to countries that have already had them for about a year or so and ask them?
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May 22, 2016 20:05
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Nobody sane is saying the current step is the jobmageddon, but it's pretty obvious where the trend is headed in the long run. Not even that there won't be jobs, but that there won't be enough jobs - particularly unskilled ones
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May 22, 2016 20:09
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Rectus posted:Some of the local McDonaldses added this and I tried it once. You order and pay through a touchscreen station and get a number, and they call it out on a screen when it's ready. How do you keep people waiting for their order if you only sell one every 5 minutes? I flipped burgers and could easily prepare a meal myself in that time. This includes frying up a batch of fries. Even McDonalds in Japan takes your order and calls you out when it's done to keep the orders going.
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May 22, 2016 20:16
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blugu64 posted:Bunch of cities used to use pneumatic tubes for mail delivery/telegraphs/etc roffels posted:I can imagine if you had a McDonalds or whatever other fast-food app for regulars that they could use on their phone to order, they would. It could be a potential labor savor and it would get around inefficiencies like bottlenecks in the line such as indecisive people in front of you not knowing what they want to order yet.
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May 22, 2016 20:17
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Touchlamps. I was going through some tapes from the early 80s and forgot how big of a thing this was for a while. I remember loving when we would go to Sears - the window air conditioners blowing streamers, the dishwasher with the see-through front, the washing machine with the see-through lid, the wall of televisions, the Ataris on display, and the touchlamps.
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May 22, 2016 20:27
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Lowen SoDium posted:Carl's Jr. (gently caress you, I'm Eating!) has announced that they working towards automated restaurants, and I believe that Wendy's said that they were going to installed self-service kiosk in many of their locations to get around a $15 minimum wage. In the next few years, teenagers and burnouts working in fast food will be obsolete. In a few year after that, most unskilled labor will be gone too. I would go as far as to guess that with in 15 years, retail stores will be almost completely automated except for the one token human to is there to override the computer and address customer complaints. In malls, it will probably even be a mall staff position or something where 1 person is the token human for 3 or 4 stores. I used to work for a company that produced POS equipment for Wendy's. We experimented with self-service kiosks as a QSR methodology. It was complete garbage and never worked with customer flow. Humans can route traffic and take orders 10 times faster than a touch screen. Every time we tried to make it work, it failed. It slows service and causes your drop chart to become confusing as there isn't constant human feedback based on intuition. Weather, traffic patterns, construction on a particular road, local events, local news, etc. Humans parse information faster than any computer. That's why the self checkouts suck at grocery stores. They're only faster when you've done retail yourself in the past. Otherwise, the machine fights with you if you can't tell a Poblano from an Anaheim. In my opinion, the future should be motherfucking people handling the register. Kiosks are one step forward and two steps back.
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May 22, 2016 20:40
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Lurking Haro posted:How do you keep people waiting for their order if you only sell one every 5 minutes? I flipped burgers and could easily prepare a meal myself in that time. This includes frying up a batch of fries. Yeah, that seems like a malfunction. Up here in Canada, they just introduced self-serve kiosks at McDonalds, and the only time it takes 5 minutes is if you ordered one of the new from-scratch choose-your-toppings burgers. In that case, the self-serve kiosk assistants actually bring it to you at your table and act as your server. (Those positions were all new hires added onto the existing staff, coincidentally.) Goober Peas posted:Touchlamps. I was going through some tapes from the early 80s and forgot how big of a thing this was for a while. I remember loving when we would go to Sears - the window air conditioners blowing streamers, the dishwasher with the see-through front, the washing machine with the see-through lid, the wall of televisions, the Ataris on display, and the touchlamps. Those things are the worst. My mom's husband made one, and he's so proud of it it's the only table lamp in the living room. Every time I try to use it, I just flail around wishing there was an actual switch instead.
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May 22, 2016 21:23
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On the other hand, you can get a higher bandwidth of customers (I can't remember if there's a better word, so 'bandwidth' it is). Four self service machines can fit in the same space two tills can. Assuming that the length of one self-service transaction isn't twice the time of a till, then you are servicing more customers in the same period of time. Plus I like self-service better because I don't have to interact with people. 
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May 22, 2016 21:26
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