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Phanatic posted:It's brackish all the way up to the dam, 150 miles upriver. The tides keep it pretty well mixed. The peak salt concentration depends on the tide, but the whole thing is salty below Federal Dam. fair point, but it's not salt water like the ocean is I mean, sure it's probably not good for the plane but sitting a day in there I don't think will gently caress up too much e- though sitting in an NTSB hangar uncleaned probably will Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 05:21
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VikingSkull posted:fair point, but it's not salt water like the ocean is The salt won’t gently caress it up instantly, but if it isn’t immediately cleaned (and thoroughly), it quickly becomes a write‐off.
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May 30, 2016 05:27
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Bob A Feet posted:Yeah. Three evolutions, one with black out goggles, and the qual per TMS is good for three years. Or four. Id have to look. I'm about to do it again this month. It really is valuable training. Doing it all upside down can be a total mind gently caress. Not to mention you must wait until all violent motion stops before releasing your restraints. Upside down. Under water. In the dark. I guess it does make more sense for Navy/Marine personnel to do it more often, since there's a non-zero chance they could be ferried around on a helicopter at some point. And you only have a handful of ports you'd need to maintain the program at. I think USAF water survival was every five years? I'm not sure...combat survival was five though.
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May 30, 2016 05:59
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It isn't just hot shot pilots that get dunked. Everyone (cooks, cleaners, old, young, etc) who works on the North Sea oil platforms goes through various security training, which includes a helicopter bath every few years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IkcG8RzqsU
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May 30, 2016 08:02
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Godholio posted:I guess it does make more sense for Navy/Marine personnel to do it more often, since there's a non-zero chance they could be ferried around on a helicopter at some point. And you only have a handful of ports you'd need to maintain the program at. I think USAF water survival was every five years? I'm not sure...combat survival was five though.
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May 30, 2016 14:05
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Navy dunker training is a four-year qual. I was talking with some friends about it the other day, and I think the main thing that it teaches isn't so much specifically how to get out of an aircraft (since the trainer is a generic box with seats), but more of an expectation of just how loving confusing everything is when it's upside down, pitch black, and full of water.
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May 30, 2016 17:23
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standard.deviant posted:It depends on specific guidance (RTM) to a much greater degree right now. Before I left operations for AFMC, we had both combat and water survival at a 3 year interval. Maybe it was three? I went through a refresher for each, so it could've been 3 or 5. But our water refresher was in the local community college's pool. Got to swim in a chain, use the raft, etc, but no dunking.
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May 30, 2016 21:12
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Ola posted:It isn't just hot shot pilots that get dunked. Everyone (cooks, cleaners, old, young, etc) who works on the North Sea oil platforms goes through various security training, which includes a helicopter bath every few years. Same in Canada, one week survival training up front followed by a three day refresher every three years. Getting out of those things in a full survival seat is not easy in a 15 degC pool, I can't imagine how hard it is in cold water in an emergency situation.
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May 31, 2016 00:44
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Nebakenezzer asked me to make some floatplane F-35s, so I did.  Nebakenezzer posted:What if the Marines have no carrier support but have access to a large relatively calm body of water?
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May 31, 2016 06:02
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Speaking of, yesterday was the rollout for the Be-200ES 
ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 13:33 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 13:31
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Oh my god it's 
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May 31, 2016 13:57
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Navy dunker training is a four-year qual. I was talking with some friends about it the other day, and I think the main thing that it teaches isn't so much specifically how to get out of an aircraft (since the trainer is a generic box with seats), but more of an expectation of just how loving confusing everything is when it's upside down, pitch black, and full of water. I did it three times in 6 years, I think? Once in boot camp (or AWT?), once getting ready to float with a MEU and then once again just before I got out because I guess time was up? I don't recall. The first one was in a Huey and then the other 2 were in ch-47ish mock ups. It was kind of fun but we never hit the water very hard and weren't in full combat gear, I would expect that reality would be much worse.
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May 31, 2016 15:53
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Is it supposed to simulate a controlled ditching under power or autorotation?
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May 31, 2016 17:20
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I did a helo dunker at a summer camp in Alabama when I was 13. I don't remember it being scary but I assume the one I did went a lot slower. It was a big cylinder with windows that got lowered by a crane into a saltwater pool. I don't think it flipped over when it submerged either but I don't remember. There was also a zipline into the pool to simulate parachuting into the water.
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May 31, 2016 19:06
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hobbesmaster posted:Is it supposed to simulate a controlled ditching under power or autorotation? Neither, if I understand you correctly, there is no impact. It simulates the helicopter sinking and turning over, which it is likely to do since it has all that heavy weight on top. Helicopters usually have flotation devices for ditching, but they can fail.
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May 31, 2016 19:45
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Ola posted:Helicopters usually have flotation devices for ditching, but they can fail. Like what? Its an egress trainer. IE to show you how hosed up its going to be to be underwater, in the dark, scrambling with a bunch of your best friends trying to find the exits. Its also teaching you how to use an oxygen bottle-- which all aircrew carry and all of our lifejackets we give to passengers have as well. Nothing that is safe can prepare you for the impact of an autorotation into the water. And, in a power on ditching scenario-- ideally, you get everything out before you go into the water. IE come into a low hover, kick the raft out and have the pax/aircrew jump out, and then the pilots bring it down under power.
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May 31, 2016 21:15
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Bob A Feet posted:Like what? 
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May 31, 2016 21:19
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Bob A Feet posted:Like what? Some sponsoons are supposed to provide limited water landing capability.
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May 31, 2016 21:27
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Not all aircrew have O2 bottles. Or are wearing lifejackets.
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May 31, 2016 22:16
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Just recently there was a proposal from the feds in Canada that commercial carrier floatplane crew and passengers should be wearing personal floatation devices for the flight duration. Seems like a good idea to me really. There are some fairly compact and unobtrusive PFDs available. Just as long as folks dont inflate them by accident on purpose when fuckin around. http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ottawa-proposes-that-commercial-floatplane-passengers-and-crew-wear-life-vests
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May 31, 2016 22:23
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So is that a failure because it's flipped or is it just supposed to keep it from sinking to the bottom?
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May 31, 2016 22:25
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Godholio posted:Not all aircrew have O2 bottles. Or are wearing lifejackets. Woops! You're right. I meant Navy/USMC, and by that I meant rotary wing. Guys who land on boats alot. Ejection seat guys have a raft and an auto-inflatable life jacket tethered to them. TBH I have no clue what P-3/P-8/E-6B guys do. Yeah, I imagine wearing a life jacket would get in the way when you're trying to make coffee or get in your rack, right?
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May 31, 2016 22:33
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I know on AWACS, the poopy suits are stuffed in the back next to the shitter (appropriate). If you're going out over the water further than ~50 miles you shove one under your seat. But they're a pain in the dick to put on even on level ground, so good luck doing so in an airliner that's making it's way to an unplanned water landing. It's basically just assumed that you're hosed anyway. They don't even carry parachutes anymore because again, good luck putting it on and successfully jumping out without getting chopped in half by a wing/horizontal stabilizer or shredded by the underbelly UHF antennae.
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May 31, 2016 22:37
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Parachutes aren't on the E-3 any more because the conditions that would allow a 'safe' egress are the same for a flyable aircraft. But really it's more likely for cost and manpower reasons.
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May 31, 2016 23:22
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Godholio posted:I know on AWACS, the poopy suits are stuffed in the back next to the shitter (appropriate). If you're going out over the water further than ~50 miles you shove one under your seat. But they're a pain in the dick to put on even on level ground, so good luck doing so in an airliner that's making it's way to an unplanned water landing. do you get the poopy suit song running through your head any time someone mentions them
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Jun 1, 2016 00:57
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[at least you tried.jpg] ChickenOfTomorrow posted:do you get the poopy suit song running through your head any time someone mentions them Alright, I'll bite - I have an idea what the poopy suit is, but why is it called that and now I want to know how the song goes. 
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Jun 1, 2016 01:59
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Duke Chin posted:[at least you tried.jpg] This is probably the song, it's one of the highlights of the The MST3K episode The Starfighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64DMXtZB8CU The movie proper is like a promotional video for the F-104. You can see the whole episode here. My favorite moment is the "we're going to bomb them back to the jazz age" bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dDumDN3Y5I
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Jun 1, 2016 04:01
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When I was doing emergency / survival training back in nautical school, the instructor helpfully pointed out that we could be in one of those floating around in the water for sixteen hours, and there's no butt flap. Don't know if it's where the name came from, just wanted to share.
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Jun 1, 2016 04:06
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VikingSkull posted:not as bad as polishing aluminum
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Jun 1, 2016 04:16
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FrozenVent posted:When I was doing emergency / survival training back in nautical school, the instructor helpfully pointed out that we could be in one of those floating around in the water for sixteen hours, and there's no butt flap. Dude it's called a poopy suit, not a poop in the suit.
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Jun 1, 2016 04:29
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I chuckled at this article. Unsurprisingly 737 is #2 and A320 is #1.
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Jun 1, 2016 06:32
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No Cessna 172? No B-52? e: Anything Cirrus makes because of the airframe parachute taking all the fun out of doctor‐killing. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 06:36
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iyaayas01 posted:I chuckled at this article. F-15 doesn't belong on that list. I'd put the F-16 in it's place.
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Jun 1, 2016 06:53
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Previa_fun posted:F-15 doesn't belong on that list. I'd put the F-16 in it's place. Nah, F-15 is "boring" (in the context of the article) because it does its job well with no obvious flaws. The closest thing you get to exciting with it is an undefeated combat record against fourth string militaries or the fact that it can fly with most of a wing off, which in the context of this article just makes it all the more boring because even when it gets ripped almost in half it just flies right back home. F-16 has all sorts of excitement, what with the single engine and the lawn darting and the getting blown over by B-1s e: Same thing with the F-14...compressor stalls galore.
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Jun 1, 2016 07:02
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ghetto wormhole posted:So is that a failure because it's flipped or is it just supposed to keep it from sinking to the bottom? Because it's flipped, but I think in that case it's many hours after the actual landing and the waves caused it to finally flip. e: here's one, maybe the same, floating upright: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/11/north-sea-helicopters-oil-pressure-report-ditch Ola fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 08:33
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iyaayas01 posted:I chuckled at this article. I like this, it's kinda like the Cool Wall on old Top Gear. It's completely subjective so the interesting thing is how the case is made.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:40
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France is saying they've picked up the pings from the Black box of AirEgypt 804.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:47
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CommieGIR posted:France is saying they've picked up the pings from the Black box of AirEgypt 804. I looked up the BBC to get more info on this, (here it is for the interested) and stumbled across this four minute film on the crash of the Tu-144 at the Paris air show.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:15
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Thought this was kind of a nice photo
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Jun 1, 2016 19:39
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slidebite posted:Thought this was kind of a nice photo Pictured: two trainers and two turds.
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