Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Trilobite: Aug 15, 2001

Thoatse posted:

He doesn't have a seat on the family Connie though.

You know, I just realized I have no idea at all what that even means. Are there actually any ships in the game that require (or can make use of) more than one person to fly?

And if there are, what do those other people actually do? Like, what's supposed to be the fun part of not being the person controlling the ship? I know there was a thing a while back where a 2-seater ship jpg turned into a 1-seater, ostensibly because there was no way for anyone to get to the second seat and some unnamed leaver ship modeler made the decision to cut it without telling anyone, but what the christing gently caress was the co-pilot's job going to be on that thing in the first place? (I'm guessing 'not much,' since losing the chair was apparently so easy it required no discussion whatsoever.)

# ? Jun 8, 2016 04:56

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 10:09

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Thank you God for the gift that is Star Citizen.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 04:56

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

Trilobite posted:

You know, I just realized I have no idea at all what that even means. Are there actually any ships in the game that require (or can make use of) more than one person to fly?

And if there are, what do those other people actually do? Like, what's supposed to be the fun part of not being the person controlling the ship? I know there was a thing a while back where a 2-seater ship jpg turned into a 1-seater, ostensibly because there was no way for anyone to get to the second seat and some unnamed leaver ship modeler made the decision to cut it without telling anyone, but what the christing gently caress was the co-pilot's job going to be on that thing in the first place? (I'm guessing 'not much,' since losing the chair was apparently so easy it required no discussion whatsoever.)

Its like playing Artemis .. Only online, without voice comms and you have no idea who's the captain / owner / commander.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 04:58

bird with big dick: Oct 21, 2015

Why is there a new version of itunes every loving week? I just want to listen to tay tay without downloading a ton of poo poo every time.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 04:58

Ayn Randi: Mar 12, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Trilobite posted:

You know, I just realized I have no idea at all what that even means. Are there actually any ships in the game that require (or can make use of) more than one person to fly?

And if there are, what do those other people actually do? Like, what's supposed to be the fun part of not being the person controlling the ship? I know there was a thing a while back where a 2-seater ship jpg turned into a 1-seater, ostensibly because there was no way for anyone to get to the second seat and some unnamed leaver ship modeler made the decision to cut it without telling anyone, but what the christing gently caress was the co-pilot's job going to be on that thing in the first place? (I'm guessing 'not much,' since losing the chair was apparently so easy it required no discussion whatsoever.)

there will be many other players happy to warm a chair and play redshirt comms officer to your space captain just to bask in the reflected glory of your multi crew ship. this is true for the total volume of all ships sold, real space gamers are waiting to make your fantasy come true pledge now

# ? Jun 8, 2016 04:59

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

Trilobite posted:

You know, I just realized I have no idea at all what that even means. Are there actually any ships in the game that require (or can make use of) more than one person to fly?

And if there are, what do those other people actually do? Like, what's supposed to be the fun part of not being the person controlling the ship? I know there was a thing a while back where a 2-seater ship jpg turned into a 1-seater, ostensibly because there was no way for anyone to get to the second seat and some unnamed leaver ship modeler made the decision to cut it without telling anyone, but what the christing gently caress was the co-pilot's job going to be on that thing in the first place? (I'm guessing 'not much,' since losing the chair was apparently so easy it required no discussion whatsoever.)

When the game comes out (stop laughing), whales think that players will MAN THE SHIELDS, and TURRETS, for minimum wage, so they can too, be captains of industry.

I am not kidding.

Also, there is quite a few dads that will enslave their children to "star citizen connie night".

paarp.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:01

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

FrankieGoes posted:

Why is there a new version of itunes every loving week? I just want to listen to tay tay without downloading a ton of poo poo every time.

Star Citizen: Hell, we make iTunes look good.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:02

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

Ayn Randi posted:

there will be many other players happy to warm a chair and play redshirt comms officer to your space captain just to bask in the reflected glory of your multi crew ship. this is true for the total volume of all ships sold, real space gamers are waiting to make your fantasy come true pledge now

Lime Tonics posted:

When the game comes out (stop laughing), whales think that players will MAN THE SHIELDS, and TURRETS, for minimum wage, so they can too, be captains of industry.

I am not kidding.

Also, there is quite a few dads that will enslave their children to "star citizen connie night".

paarp.

Hell, if I could ever get a connection that would let me finish downloading one patch before the next came out, I would SO multicrew on a Goonship, just for the efficient mayhem it could inflict.

For free.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:07

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

I like knowing that Sandi had to delete that photo from her FB. And while doing so was pissed at all of us in this thread.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:21

sanctimoniousqfd: Dec 16, 2015

starkebn posted:

2.4 is such a poo poo show because their network infrastructure is borked. There's no way they can fix it without having a competent team redesign it from scratch then re implement it.

5 MB to spawn a ship? Laffo

As an online engineer, I still can't believe that figure for data serialized over the wire... whoever put that network spawning system together has obviously never worked on multiplayer games before!

All copies of the game know all the parts available, and each should be assigned a GUID (32-bit should be more than enough, especially if they use perfect hashing). All the peer should then need to receive to spawn the ship is the base model GUID, any custom modules, say 40-50 tops (any more than that and your customisation design is over-encumbered) and damage state (maybe!), with some hints for types of visible damage to a finite number of regions of the outer hull... everything else is gravy. Get that working, with the server-side simulation responsible for actually taking into account physical state of components, and you are most of the way towards having a reasonably fidelitous replica of a ship spawn on a remote peer for the majority of in-game interactions. More precise data can be streamed in post-spawn.

I suspect where this has gone wrong is... well, Chris. Online multiplayer is the act of maintaining the shared illusion that the same game is being played on multiple peers at approximately the same time... I'm guessing that the "illusion" and "approximate" parts don't fit well into his pillar of fidelity.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:22

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

hey sandi sign up and post in this thread

tell us all about star citizen

come on do it you coward

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:23

EminusSleepus: Sep 28, 2015

someone posted this in Derek's tweet feed lol

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:23

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Lime Tonics posted:

Also, there is quite a few dads that will enslave their children to "star citizen connie night".

Unless you're the lazy son of a born again preacher.

Probably the smartest one in the whole house.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:24

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Samizdata posted:

Hell, if I could ever get a connection that would let me finish downloading one patch before the next came out, I would SO multicrew on a Goonship, just for the efficient mayhem it could inflict.

For free.

I'd plunk down the cash to have a Goonliner full of goons to plow into B'tak's mining operation. Love to see the physics of 50 passengers in t-poses.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:24

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

Thoatse posted:

Unless you're the lazy son of a born again preacher.

Probably the smartest one in the whole house.

"yard work? gently caress off dad go tell youtube about it"

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:24

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

Beet Wagon posted:

baby pictures

And that's coming from someone who hates babies.

my babbies are adorable u have no idea

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:28

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

spacetoaster posted:

I like knowing that Sandi had to delete that photo from her FB. And while doing so was pissed at all of us in this thread.

the twitter one is now down too

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:32

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

hahahaha they took the photos down

where's moma when you want to laugh at him

priceless

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:42

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

alf_pogs posted:

hahahaha they took the photos down

where's moma when you want to laugh at him

priceless

It's called transparency.

Odd thing is, I wonder how they are going to handle our group when we hit the studio tour.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:47

Pointy: Feb 12, 2003; hello old friend

alf_pogs posted:

hahahaha they took the photos down

where's moma when you want to laugh at him

priceless

Probably getting screamed at

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:48

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

ZenMaster posted:

the twitter one is now down too

Mmmmmmmmm yessssssssssss

I like it when we call the tune.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 05:50

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Lime Tonics posted:

It's posts like this that inspire confidence in a project,

Once again, for the millionth time, a new backer has spent a long time in the tutorial and becoming frustrated with certain things not working.

CIG. We have been over this for so many times now, that it's time to get your rear end moving and disable the tutorial or fix it! I don't give a drat about what excuses you have, just do it! This is hurting new potential backers who are not at all familiar with the quite complex controls in this game, and a broken tutorial is not going to help either.

Stop this bullshit now. I mean it. And so does everybody else who gives a drat about this game.

Signed Veteran Backer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4n2kuq/the_tutorial_needs_to_be_shutdown_now/

paaarp

I know for a fact CIG leadership read the Jeffrey McArthur post not long after it was posted in February. Any of you redditors lurking here should read the below and ask yourself why CIG LA -- the Marketing staff in particular -- persists in ignoring such obvious problems they have the power to correct. Either they are fantastically incompetent or brazenly disinterested. Either should trouble you. Both may in fact be true.

Hate to say I told you so alright...

G0RF posted:

When the CIG peon assigned to read this thread for actionable intelligence comes across this little account, I hope you will print this, or otherwise pass the sad little story and helpful set of suggestions up to Ben, Sandi, Lando, or even Chris.

( about Jeffrey McArthur's terrible Star Citizen experience)

----

THE PROBLEM, IN SUMMARY:

You have stated your intention to "take the pressure off backers to keep funding the game" by focusing your efforts on winning newer backers to the cause. This is a sensible strategy, at least on its surface, yet the proposition is going to be bloody difficult if:

1) The game is buggy, confusing, and unfun to play.
2) The tutorial is broken.
3) The community is hostile to new players who state that either or both of the above is true.

THE SOLUTION, IN SUMMARY:

You, the Community and Marketing Team, do not have the power to fix what is wrong with the game, or accelerate the development of its improvement. You do, however, have useful tools to combat this problem. There are good-hearted, patient members in your community, trying their level best to help win new converts to the fold. And not all of them are motivated by your cynical referral program carrot.

You are fortunate in that respect. They still love you, for reasons beyond my understanding.

Because of that, you need to:

1) EMPOWER AND ELEVATE THE GOOD GUYS --- they are the best tools in your arsenal in what will be a difficult new season of your life. Elevate their stature, and start taking a harder line approach with that part of your backer base that truly is the enemy within. If the game was not the mess that it is, then this particular issue would not be of such urgent priority. You, the Community and Marketing leadership, may have no power over the pace and quality of development, but you have a lot of tools at your disposal for changing the discourse in your own community.

2) PRIORITIZE NEW PLAYER EDUCATION VIDEOS -- Instead of doing yet another weekly show (the newest of which is apparently about Space Plants), you should focus on weekly programming aimed at educating non-players about the game and educating current players about the importance of welcoming any and all questions that non-players may have. Right now, some members of your own community are doing this for you, because they recognize the need is great, but it's YOUR GAME, and you need to do this for yourself.

3) FIX THE drat TUTORIAL - Tell Chris that fixing the Tutorial is a five-alarm fire and needs developer attention immediately. Pull five guys off their 4th revamp of a spinning space chair remodel and have them make a tutorial that doesn't suck.

4) DON'T JUST DISCOURAGE TOXIC BACKERS, PUNISH THEM -- Lando and Ben showed some encouraging signs in a recent Reverse the Verse, asking the community not to insult or argue with people. But an offhand comment in a show seen by maybe 1000 viewers is not enough. You need to make examples of the toxic losers who stand amongst the Welcome Committess with their guns out, ready to fire endless lobs of "You're an idiot", "You don't understand Game development", "This is an ALPHA, rear end in a top hat!" at your next potential wave of customers. You have seen it play out countless times, as surely as we have. You need to start doing something about it.

5) REFRESH YOUR PUBLIC PERSONA BY ELEVATING NEW FACES - Ben and Sandi, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but each of you have lost credibility with the fanbase over the last year, for very different reasons. The rapturous reception of Sean Tracy by "Reverse the Verse" viewers is telling you something-- that a straight-talking and informed developer actually talking about the true state of the game is like manna from heaven to a starving people wandering the desert looking for the Promised Land. You could regain some goodwill with an increasingly restive population by replacing yourselves with Sean Tracy and Cherie Heiberg. Ben, you come across as Uninformed and Sandi, you come across as Disinterested. Sean and Cherie are very informed, very interested and, in contrast to you both, they seem trustworthy, too. If you want to change the tone (and you bloody well should), it starts with replacing them mouthpieces.

-----

I recognize that this is constructive criticism, and will likely be seen as presumptuous and disingenuous, considering that it came from Something Awful. You seem far more likely to take action to our posts when you find us delighting in some smoking gun you've left buried somewhere that you need to track down and throw into the ocean.

Yet it is offered sincerely, and the advice is sound. Do not let 'director of spaceships' titles earned through sycophancy deafen you, Ben. Do not let your excessive self-regard as a Marketing Genius blind you, Sandi. Let neither your cash reserves nor past successes delude you about the present realities. There's a chill in the air now, guys, and it's not just the weather changing, it is the season.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jun 8, 2016

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:10

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

oh hey guys what'd CIG gently caress up this ti- :stare:

uh

huh

...

But she's a MODEL! This should be like "yes, this is what I'm here for!"
loving christ. Using hot chicks to sell a game is the most basic idea and CIG managed to gently caress it up.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:12

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

SSNeoman posted:

But she's a MODEL!

But not a working model.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:19

Nemo2342: Nov 26, 2007; Have A Day; Nap Ghost

EminusSleepus posted:

someone posted this in Derek's tweet feed lol

Congratulations on making a better photoshop than the original!

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:22

AlmightyPants: Mar 14, 2001; King of Scheduling; Pillbug

EminusSleepus posted:

someone posted this in Derek's tweet feed lol

ahahahahaha, goddamn that's great!

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:24

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

sanctimoniousqfd posted:

Normality restored.

Somebody needs to break the news to Neogaf...

quote:

"Looks like we hit $115m. It's crazy that we're on course to getting another $30 million before the end of the year, you'd think funding would be slowing down.

Also, female player model is apparently heading to the game engine."

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:24

Exinos: Mar 1, 2009; OSHA approved squiq

SelenicMartian posted:

But not a working model.

The model is over 2 generations old. It should go back into the pipeline so a newer mesh can take its place but some blockers are in the way.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:29

A large farva: Sep 5, 2006; Ramrod XTreme

EminusSleepus posted:

someone posted this in Derek's tweet feed lol

needs more guns...

Edit: suns out guns out...

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:29

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkLA-5j0AA

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:33

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Meanwhile, at MMORPG forums:

Bascola posted:

"Looks like we might get female characters soon, took long enough."

scorpex-x posted:

"They need to make them sexier, like in Overwatch. That will really bring in some serious attention, it's not PC but it's true.

Nerds love space sims, they also love dem titties."

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:34

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

G0RF posted:

Meanwhile, at MMORPG forums:

quote:

Maybe they do NOT have to make them "sexier" because the target audience is older and not as horny. Maybe they do not have to make them so sexy that all the porn companies can rip off the character models, remove the clothing and use them in their hentai porn.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:36

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

sanctimoniousqfd posted:

As an online engineer, I still can't believe that figure for data serialized over the wire... whoever put that network spawning system together has obviously never worked on multiplayer games before!

All copies of the game know all the parts available, and each should be assigned a GUID (32-bit should be more than enough, especially if they use perfect hashing). All the peer should then need to receive to spawn the ship is the base model GUID, any custom modules, say 40-50 tops (any more than that and your customisation design is over-encumbered) and damage state (maybe!), with some hints for types of visible damage to a finite number of regions of the outer hull... everything else is gravy. Get that working, with the server-side simulation responsible for actually taking into account physical state of components, and you are most of the way towards having a reasonably fidelitous replica of a ship spawn on a remote peer for the majority of in-game interactions. More precise data can be streamed in post-spawn.

I suspect where this has gone wrong is... well, Chris. Online multiplayer is the act of maintaining the shared illusion that the same game is being played on multiple peers at approximately the same time... I'm guessing that the "illusion" and "approximate" parts don't fit well into his pillar of fidelity.

They're most probably sending XML between server / clients instead of hashes / strings, you should know how obscenely large and fat encrypted XML can be :gary:

Ben Lesnick, Developer.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:36

CHICKEN SHOES: Oct 4, 2002; Slippery Tilde

Some interesting results in this series of polls. They only have 64 votes as of now but they tell an interesting tale

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/332114/back-to-basics-how-would-you-rate-the-current-progress-poll

here are some highlights:

Still on the overly positive side, but overall pretty spread out

speaks for itself, backers are tired of this poo poo

i'm sure these will be fixed by 2.4.1Z26

well thats some interesting data, surely if CIG listened to their backers maybe they could make them happy and convince them to spend more???

oh wait nothing matters its alpha of course, no one refines or tests a game in alpha DUMBASS

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:38

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

alf_pogs posted:

These guys are going to bring a whole new level of cringe to Star Citizen's twitch and YouTube content. I half wonder if part of the delay around female models is to postpone the inevitable...

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:43

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

From here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYHTyZJQ_3s

115 million.

paarp

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:46

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

G0RF posted:

These guys are going to bring a whole new level of cringe to Star Citizen's twitch and YouTube content. I half wonder if part of the delay around female models is to postpone the inevitable...

There's no need for a female model as we already have a model for all promotional works. -Memo, CIG business office.

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:47

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

alf_pogs posted:

audience not as horny quote

yea ok bud

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:51

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

Ayn Randi posted:

star citizen 2.4s patch notes

*incremented letter on star citizen version count
*fixed an issue where this text field was blank
*fixed an issue with flair item rendering - deckchairs may now be rearranged on the local physics grid of a crashing constellation

you forgot,

- Improved server stability

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:58

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 10:09

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

Colostomy Bag posted:

I'd plunk down the cash to have a Goonliner full of goons to plow into B'tak's mining operation. Love to see the physics of 50 passengers in t-poses.

AND YOU HAVE MY AXE...Erm....PLEDGE....Erm...CREWING!

(I do, however, reserve the right to fire wildly as close as possible to B'tak's ship without hitting it during the approach.)

# ? Jun 8, 2016 06:58

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