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GrandpaPants posted:If I remember, Fall From Heaven 2 had some really good events, but they were more involved and I think included something resembling a choice of outcomes? Better paint that cow!
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Jun 9, 2016 08:08
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berryjon posted:I think you misunderstand. A Eureka bonus give you a 50% Bonus to research made on that tech. So once you've discovered another Civ, every 10 Beakers of research gives you 15 added to your total. It doesn't magically fill up half the bar. Are you sure about that? A minute into the gameplay video, Writing is at about 55% complete with 2 turns to go. Then the player meets another Civ to satisfy the eureka condition, and it immediately unlocks the tech. The civic Military Tradition unlocks in the same manner about 2 minutes into the video.
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Jun 9, 2016 09:50
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I am conflicted. On the one hand I think that a bonus to conversion of beakers to progress in the tech will free us from having to game the system in order to have optimal results, on the other hand I think that having an immediate and obvious bonus will be more satisfying. Of course even the conversion bonus does not ensure that it won't involve some metagame tactics: people will just won't start researching a technology until they have fulfilled it's eureka objectives.
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Jun 9, 2016 10:12
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Hmm, I don't like the idea of Eureka objectives that you can intentionally shoot for, a la the "build three spearmen" one from the list. I had thought the point was to make things that happened naturally and/or randomly, mostly in regards to geography, determine what technologies were more attractive. Like, you start with stone nearby and Masonry looks an awful lot better relative to Animal Husbandry or Pottery. If there's anything you can control at all it just becomes another weird system for people to game. Also, things that will almost certainly happen at roughly the same time every single game, like meeting another Civ, shouldn't provide bonuses either since that can only serve to make investing too many points into it too early a mistake. Clarste fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 10:20
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I rather hope that there is some unpredictability to them at least, like 1 of 3 possible quests when you start researching a tech, and you won't know which one you'll get until you start. That would help deter players from planning ahead and help to make them more situational. Sadly that doesn't look to be the case.
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Jun 9, 2016 12:25
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So if you had already built 3 spearmen by the time you start researching the tech, will you immediately get the eureka? Or will you had to built 3 more? Or maybe you just missed it
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Jun 9, 2016 13:18
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Clarste posted:If there's anything you can control at all it just becomes another weird system for people to game. You guys spent two whole pages complaining about the primacy of the beaker dominating the game and now you seem disappointed in a system that explicitly allows you to pay research costs in other ways.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:23
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Elias_Maluco posted:So if you had already built 3 spearmen by the time you start researching the tech, will you immediately get the eureka? Or will you had to built 3 more? Or maybe you just missed it Once you've satisfied a tech's eureka condition, you'll get boosted science while researching that tech. It doesn't matter if it happens before or after the research starts. As soon as you've built the three spearman, Iron Working's beaker cost is reduced, essentially. At least, that's my understanding.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:46
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Ghostlight posted:You guys spent two whole pages complaining about the primacy of the beaker dominating the game and now you seem disappointed in a system that explicitly allows you to pay research costs in other ways. lol if you think civ players will be happy
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Jun 9, 2016 13:51
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As much as this thread will complain about everything wrt Civ VI, about 90% of it will still buy the game at or near launch
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Jun 9, 2016 14:01
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I think that people worry that instead of the eureka system being a way to reward certain choices that are normally unrelated to research, it will just be baked into your research plans from the get go and assumed to be the baseline consideration for your overall science strategy when playing Civ 6. Just like the "building quest" bonuses in Civ:BE were supposed to just add a bit more life and story into the game, but just ended up supplanting the main bonuses, like building an ultrasonic fence just to get the trade unit protection bonus.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:06
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majormonotone posted:As much as this thread will complain about everything wrt Civ VI, about 90% of it will still buy the game at or near launch Not me, I will buy a few DLCs later at a sale and will pay for the complete edition less than you paid for the pre-order. And the eureka system and the tech tree(s) will be balanced and the AI will be a lot less stupid
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Jun 9, 2016 14:10
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Could be worse.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:24
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Clarste posted:Hmm, I don't like the idea of Eureka objectives that you can intentionally shoot for, a la the "build three spearmen" one from the list. I had thought the point was to make things that happened naturally and/or randomly, mostly in regards to geography, determine what technologies were more attractive. Like, you start with stone nearby and Masonry looks an awful lot better relative to Animal Husbandry or Pottery. If there's anything you can control at all it just becomes another weird system for people to game. I always figured it was to keep civs on research tracks that made sense relative to their actions, so things like "build three spearmen" make perfect sense to me 
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Jun 9, 2016 15:15
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Truth be told, there is so much opportunity cost in building three spearmen, that if you don't plan to use them immediately to ruin someone's day then they will just be wasted production, science bonus or not.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:21
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Edit: ^^ beaten, kinda. You could use them as a barb-hunting party or a city-state harassment gang though. Three spearmen is quite an investment to make so presumably a player wouldn't do it unless they had more plans for those spearmen. Unlike "meet a Civ" which is going to happen whether you want it to or not and requires basically zero investment. I think that would be a sensible way to approach it - make the quests costly enough that a player wouldn't do it just for the beakers but instead has to consider what other payoffs there may be, and has to make a judgement call.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:23
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Rexides posted:Truth be told, there is so much opportunity cost in building three spearmen, that if you don't plan to use them immediately to ruin someone's day then they will just be wasted production, science bonus or not. Yeah, early game production is so important (at least on past Civs) that stopping to build 3 spearmen seems like is probably would not worth just for the bonus
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Jun 9, 2016 15:23
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no evidence exists for eureka moments increasing the rate of beaker accumulation by 50%. all the evidence suggests that eureka moments simply give research credit yes, it would be better for eurekas to increase the tech rate into that particular tech by 50%, because that is less powerful, has more of a timing mechanic. maybe it'll be changed in the expansion, or a mod, but stop saying this is how civ6 is going to work
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Jun 9, 2016 15:28
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Phobophilia posted:no evidence exists for eureka moments increasing the rate of beaker accumulation by 50%. all the evidence suggests that eureka moments simply give research credit One person said it once (and was corrected), who are you taking to exactly? 
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Jun 9, 2016 15:30
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I think we're all missing the big picture here, and that big picture is will Civ VI have a proper borderless window option?
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Jun 9, 2016 15:48
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Also the ability to play your own music in-game
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Jun 9, 2016 16:49
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RagnarokAngel posted:The whole obsolete mechanic existed for a few things in civ 4 and it really wasn't great because it punished building certain things, but not others. I thought this was a decent mechanic because it put a small brake on 'max science to win any victory type' that happened in civ 5.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:00
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Also it didn't really make sense that city walls would pose much of an obstacle to a modern army anyway.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:07
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also it didn't really make sense that city walls would pose much of an obstacle to a modern army anyway. I like to think they represent different things as you go up in era. Their graphics change, they probably didn't want to go "Wooden palisade-vitrified fort-castle-star fort-acres of tank traps and barbed wire" as you progressed through the eras since it would multiply the number of buildings while not actually making any mechanical difference at all.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:27
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also it didn't really make sense that city walls would pose much of an obstacle to a modern army anyway. Sounds like a good opportunity to force players to actively continue to improve their cities instead of building walls and saying fogettabadit for the next 1000 years.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:21
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Man, kind of irked I missed the GMG sale of this due to being on a trip, hope they do it again before October.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:58
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Jastiger posted:Sounds like a good opportunity to force players to actively continue to improve their cities instead of building walls and saying fogettabadit for the next 1000 years. This is literally what Civ 5 does with Walls->Castle->etc. all the way up to I believe Military Base, each of which gives massively larger bonuses to city strength. The idea seems to have been that greatly increasing unit power would effectively make older buildings like walls obsolete and require the powerful new buildings without needing to explicitly set a trigger. The problem was that by that point you could either wreck the AI totally well short of your cities or else were totally buried under AI bonuses so increased city defense didn't make much difference. It was a good idea though I think, and would work better with an improved combat system.
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Jun 9, 2016 20:00
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Anyone know if civ VI is going to support 3d like civ 5?
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Jun 9, 2016 22:58
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blackmongoose posted:This is literally what Civ 5 does with Walls->Castle->etc. all the way up to I believe Military Base, each of which gives massively larger bonuses to city strength. The idea seems to have been that greatly increasing unit power would effectively make older buildings like walls obsolete and require the powerful new buildings without needing to explicitly set a trigger. The problem was that by that point you could either wreck the AI totally well short of your cities or else were totally buried under AI bonuses so increased city defense didn't make much difference. It was a good idea though I think, and would work better with an improved combat system.
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Jun 9, 2016 23:08
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I'm a big fan of random events in games in general, I like warhammer-y dice fests. So I don't really have a problem with things like floods or assasinations in a game like Civ, but I think they should be tied to a bit of logic (like river tiles are more likely to flood than deserts). And if they start off unavoidable, they should probably have tech counters like being able to build flood defense (or just being granted it upon reaching appropriate tech).
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Jun 9, 2016 23:32
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so the eureka moments, how do they work? do you have to do them after you get them, or can you do them beforehand. for instance if i make 3 spearmen before the 3 spearman tech is even available to research, will it count?
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Jun 9, 2016 23:52
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How would you produce three spear men without the tech?
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Jun 9, 2016 23:53
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he means the tech that the three spearman eureka refers to (iron working)
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Jun 10, 2016 00:19
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what? im not talking about producing 3 spearmen before the spearmen tech is unlocked but 3 before the tech requiring the spearmen to be build for the eureka is unlocked one. you can replace it with 'discover a civilization before you can research the tech that requires discovering a civ for its eureka' if you want to
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Jun 10, 2016 00:20
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civ5 spearmen are off bronze working. you can't, of course, get an eureka from for a prerequisite for the eureka
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Jun 10, 2016 00:32
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Davincie posted:what? im not talking about producing 3 spearmen before the spearmen tech is unlocked but 3 before the tech requiring the spearmen to be build for the eureka is unlocked one. They get stored up if you perform the eureka action before you have access to the tech. So if you started right next to another Civ the Writing tech would be half-price as soon as you were able to research it.
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Jun 10, 2016 00:39
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Yea, they've confirmed you don't need to have the tech/civic available for progress towards its eureka to be tracked.
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Jun 10, 2016 00:48
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MrChupon posted:I'm a big fan of random events in games in general, I like warhammer-y dice fests. So I don't really have a problem with things like floods or assasinations in a game like Civ, but I think they should be tied to a bit of logic (like river tiles are more likely to flood than deserts). And if they start off unavoidable, they should probably have tech counters like being able to build flood defense (or just being granted it upon reaching appropriate tech). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsIyphGp0Vc I hope not to see you in the board games thread.
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Jun 10, 2016 01:14
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Xelkelvos posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsIyphGp0Vc  I actually post there on rare occasion. I'm quite enamored with Agricola/Caverna at the moment, I'm not sure where they fall on the pantheon of Objectively Good and Non-Random Board Games but they are quite a bit of fun.
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Jun 10, 2016 06:22
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 Yeah, random events in Civ 4, that's the good poo poo, oh yeah.
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