|
I'm not sure what people's expectations were for Star Citizen, but before I backed in early 2013 as a so called Veteran Backer(whoo /s), I fully expected this game to take a good four to five years beyond that, and, with the way they added stretch goals, have now revised that to a good six to seven, which is extremely typical of these types of games, not even taking into account that SC/SQ42 are two games(four including the two SQ42 sequels). People are quick to point to the original 2014 launch date, but that schedule was predicated on them scrounging together twenty million, and only an initial $500 thousand from backers, what Roberts originally envisioned would be the bare minimum for the project to succeed. Once they blew through the original goals, the community kept demanding stretch goals, which, for a while at least, CIG was happy to provide. However, throughout that period, CIG employees from Wingman to Roberts repeatedly stated that a bigger game meant an extended development period. That was never in question. People seem to think that because they never revised the 2014 date to something new, that meant it was still valid, despite all common sense stating the contrary. CIG did not revise the date because the fluctuating income meant they could not reliably predict what they would have the funds to do, ultimately, not because the 2014 date was still valid. If you feel they could have done a better job communicating that, I won't disagree. Their PR has, at times, had all the trappings of a pig in a sty, despite the communiteams' admittedly admirable efforts running a rather unpredictable campaign. I don't blame them so much as I expect them to do better as they learn from their mistakes. My rejection of the scheduling argument isn't to say there aren't valid criticisms having to do with the schedule and scope. I got into this because I just wanted the single player campaign. Many others only wanted a simple Freelancer successor. Those who don't like the expanded scope have an understandable, if insupportable, complaint. The project's scope was always in CR's hands, and giving him money meant giving him carte blanche to build the game he wanted, trusting that that was what we would want as well. Not liking the direction an embryonic project takes is a well known risk. One none of us know will pay off. I still have no idea if I'll enjoy SQ42, as I am very critical of story and plot in all mediums, and that game is the reason I'm here. Certainly, the setting so far doesn't hit too many of my sci-fi sweet spots, though I do find their little lore posts to be of high quality. But I accept that I took that risk and I find it hopelessly strange that others do not. Again, I am not saying there are no criticisms to be made. I've had a few myself. Only that I feel scheduling is not a valid one. SC is having a very typical development lifecycle for a project of its funding and scope, from what we can see from the outside. Frankly, there are a number of games that started development around or before the same time as SC, and many of them are still unreleased, despite being far smaller in scope. There was a puzzle game posted just recently in this forum that falls under that umbrella. Expecting a massive, hundred million dollar two game project to finish in two, three, or even four years is absurd, never mind that they had to build a company around it as well, and anyone who had that expectation dearly needs a reality check in my opinion. The long and short of it is, the late 2014 date was stated to be invalidated long before we reached it, and expecting a hundred million dollar two game project of this scope in anything under five years is fanciful. I don't even believe the current release date for SQ42. That seems pie in the sky to me, much less having it two years ago. Calling people who give you reality checks names does not invalidate this in any way. I'm sorry to be harsh, but this view just seems too short sighted to me. Or maybe I'm completely bug fuckin nutty, I don't know. All I know is, I looked at the average development time of a AAA title and set that as my expectation before I dropped a dime on this game, and I fail to understand why I should cater to someone else's delusions while they insult me for politely explaining how reality works. It's bad enough living in the south with the creationists. I don't need that kind of overblown, self important revisionism cluttering up my online hobbies, too. Not counting those folk that just wanted a simple Freelancer clone, of course. Ya'll are alright, even if I think you're screwed. Whoo, rant over. That was cathartic. And kinda embarrassing. I don't normally let loose like that. I just saw another post championing this narrative and was too annoyed to make another polite rebuttal post explaining my position that I knew would be ignored. Ah well. I understand if you downvote me for bringing drama. I probably should just calm the hell down and get back to playing Fallout 4. Well, in spite of everything, it's not like I hate these people. I just find them annoying. They probably think I'm annoying, too, so fair's fair.
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 06:56 |
|
|
Tijuana Bibliophile posted:All I know is, I looked at the average development time of a AAA title and set that as my expectation before I dropped a dime on this game, and I fail to understand why I should cater to someone else's delusions while they insult me for politely explaining how reality works. It's bad enough living in the south with the creationists. I don't need that kind of overblown, self important revisionism cluttering up my online hobbies, too.   
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Some very good points on this page
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
megane posted:Development on the :cig: smiley is proceeding at an amazing pace, it's really just jaw-dropping the work these guys have been doing on it. You'll be seeing it on live, uh, very... very soon. It's just currently undergoing some refactoring to make sure it fits with our current smiley pipeline. The smiley is so good that it looks bad. Keep doing what you are doing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Breaking story from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/quityourbullshit/comments/4ncg4v/video_game_company_fails_at_removing_watermark/d42q00l Looks like CIG stole from Mass Effect too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
Sperglord posted:Breaking story from reddit: Breaking for them maybe that's old news from ArcherGate 1.0
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
Sperglord posted:Breaking story from reddit: lmao is there any part of their fortune that hasn't essentially been made from fencing stolen jpegs
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
 I know people are having fun with the tracer aspects but it must be said that Jim Martin is not Ryan Archer. Martin may throw together mock-up comps for jpeg sales but he actually knows how to build ships, starting with a blank piece of paper and a pencil all the way through the 3d build out. Archer seemed entirely dependent on other people's work + cut/paste/photoshop filters, so he'd fit the textbook definition of a Hack. Martin is a multi-talented artists who appears to sometimes hack together stuff for marketing purposes. It might be that he's paid for the 3d assets but does the photoshop comp stuff just to help CIG out. If he's using unlicensed photography, bad on him. But slap on the wrist bad. He can still call himself an artist, and I'm not sure that's as easily said for Archer. That is all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:These guys have the screen presence of a hanging dried fish swaying in the wind. I laughed at this during work hours. GJ Commando o9
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Solomonic posted:lmao is there any part of their fortune that hasn't essentially been made from fencing stolen jpegs You already know the answer to this
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
What I'm getting from this whole thing is that stealing art is a fairly commonplace and somewhat accepted industry practice, and shoving a bunch of stock imagery into one place is sort of a good and easy way to make a mockup of something else entirely. That's fine and I'm sure throughout my time playing video games I've seen, enjoyed and not questioned many images like this. CIG's images are so egregiously bad that they are noticeable to me, a complete amateur. They are very poorly made.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Remember, Mass Effect: Andromeda takes the stage during EA's big E3 Event. Set your reminders for Sunday June 12, 1PM PT / 4PM ET Here are the times of other E3 Events. In honor of that, my Space Game Development Chart is now feature complete and locked for release. Please use it anywhere and everywhere you see stupid rationalizations of a 4.5 Pre-Alpha Stage for Star Citizen.  (I pulled Starfield from this one, since Bethesda's almost certainly not showing it this early...) G0RF fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Prop Wash posted:What I'm getting from this whole thing is that stealing art is a fairly commonplace and somewhat accepted industry practice, and shoving a bunch of stock imagery into one place is sort of a good and easy way to make a mockup of something else entirely. That's fine and I'm sure throughout my time playing video games I've seen, enjoyed and not questioned many images like this. CIG's images are so egregiously bad that they are noticeable to me, a complete amateur. They are very poorly made. Star Citizen: We Can't Even Steal Right
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
    
Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jun 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:They eat their own poop, so no need. So, you don't even have to feed them?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
KAYAK SMILEY? YES!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
Meridian posted:KAYAK SMILEY? YES! I got bored of posting fart pictures in the discord lol  
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
FrankieGoes posted:So, you don't even have to feed them? No. The laws of thermodynamics do not apply to them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
Missed you on the Dolvak stream today, Beet
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Prop Wash posted:What I'm getting from this whole thing is that stealing art is a fairly commonplace and somewhat accepted industry practice, and shoving a bunch of stock imagery into one place is sort of a good and easy way to make a mockup of something else entirely. That's fine and I'm sure throughout my time playing video games I've seen, enjoyed and not questioned many images like this. CIG's images are so egregiously bad that they are noticeable to me, a complete amateur. They are very poorly made. If trying to erase watermarks is industry standard, the industry can go gently caress itself. Even a child would realize that's stealing. You would think $115 million company, that sells nothing but concept art, could supply it's artists with stock photos.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
Around the Verse: Episode 2.35 Jun 9, 2016 Brian Chambers & Sean Tracy @ 16:20 Brian Chambers: Hey everyone, Brian from Frankfurt office, uhm... this week instead of running through all the disciplines we have a LARGE amount of people here this week, ahm... one of 'em, Sean Tracy as you guys know, ahhh... this week we have (nods to Sean Tracy) yourself, CHRIS is out here, we have ah... TONY from AUSTIN, ah... we have RICKY from the UK, there's another eight or nine people out here? Sean Tracy: That's right, right, we've got people from EVERY STUDIO Brian Chambers: We're BUSTIN' at the seams, but I mean everyone's coming together for good reasons to cover some pretty good strong TOPICS, things that we need to get SORTED, a lot of times when we work REMOTE... oh, absolutely we make good PROGRESS and TIMEZONE, HANDOVER and all that stuff... but if we can pull everyone together into a room for a WEEK like we're doing now, we can churn through stuff a lot quicker. So, what are some of the things you guys are covering this week? Sean Tracy: Well there's a lot of LITTLE STUFF but there's some BIG TICKET ITEMS and some of the BIG TICKET ITEMS all centre around SQUADRON 42 so we've got AI and CINEMATICS... and a lot of people would think that they're not necessarily related, but within STAR CITIZEN they absolutely are, because we NEED to be able to SIGNAL these AI to transition into the very CINEMATIC MODES that we've got... we've got SO MUCH performance capture that we want to ahhh... allow this player to experience... we've got these HUGE NAME ACTORS, we want you to be WITHIN THAT STORY but at the same time we don't wanna just cut out to a... DECOUPLED CUT SCENE where a camera's flying around... we want you to be LIVING in this world... Brian Chambers: That's the one thing, I mean the... I was answering some questions earlier and they were like 'oh, are you gonna do a TRANSITION and then it's a... just a BIG CUT SCENE with no interaction and the answer is IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE, there's so many things that we're creatively doing seamlessly... sometimes the player's on rails... sometimes you cut away but only for CERTAIN REASONS if it helps with the STORY and all that... and all that with AI in it, that's just... MESS Sean Tracy: That's right and we... you know... we... we got them REACTING to you, we need them having CONVERSATIONS with you, we need them giving you MISSIONS, we need... ah... all level of... all levels of different INTERPLAY between it... and then... we've got so much CONTENT that we HAVE TO GET IN so we have to figure out the BEST WAY to get it in because... uhm... SURE we can do these... the... the kind of OLD STYLE WAY were actually plugging in very bespoke scripted sequences... but AGAIN when we've got HOURS AND HOURS OF CINEMATICS, when we've got... hours and hours of GAMEPLAY that has to play between the two... we have to be very intelligent over how we actually implement this... this WORK Brian Chambers: And in part of that process, at least that I've been involved in, I mean, we're creating a system that from the foundation is going to... allow for all these different TYPES of events, behaviours, the different WAYS we want them triggered... all the VARIABLES we want them to do and not do... and that I think is what a lot of that focus has been on, is 'OK, what is that SOLID FOUNDATION' and get the rest of those, just FEW QUESTIONS that are UNANSWERED, get those SORTED. Sean Tracy: Right and when we have so many questions like that... it's a lot easier for everybody to get TOGETHER, uhm... because... like... LIKE YOU SAID we... we... we COLLABORATE really well across the STUDIOS... BUT!... Ah... There is something to be said for ALL OF THE PEOPLE being in ONE PLACE because you get this one little question HERE, this one little question HERE, before long you're DEATH BY A THOUSAND PAPERCUTS because... ah... if you've gotta wait a few hours for that answer you can't just really quickly COME UP WITH A NICE DESIGN PLAN so... there's things we're ADJUSTING like the ANIMATION PIPELINE to make it so we can accomplish all these AI AND CINEMATICS Brian Chambers: What kind of stuff have you... have you had to take... one or two examples on PIPELINE actually, to be able to pull that off? Sean Tracy: Ah... one of the BIG ONES is some TOOLS that we do within MAYA and our... our... MOTION BUILDER... ah... ahh... SETUP... there's a BIG ONE that we use with a company called RED NINE called SCENE MANAGER and uh... SCENE MANAGER and ASSET MANAGER is basically a way within MAYA to take all our PERFORMANCE CAPTURE in basically TWO CLICKS... and you're WITHIN MAYA, builds up all the CHARACTERS, they've got all their WEAPON ATTACHMENTS... TWO CLICKS and it's OUT TO ENGINE And then as a BIG BONUS, you know... oh... oh... we can't talk... well as a... as a BIG BONUS anyways for me personally is that the other two TECH DIRECTORS on the ENTIRE PROJECT... SENIOR tech directors right? So CARSON WENSEL and MARCO CORBETT... I talk about them a LOT and everybody within the game industry INCLUDING ME... ah... ahm... needs to learn from SOMEBODY and... luckily I can come out here and pick their brains about all sorts of stuff... and we know what's happening out here around... PROCEDURAL PLANETS... Brian Chambers: We can't wait to get to the point were we can actually show you more of what we're doing but what would you say as far as your... at least your high level takeaway... Sean Tracy: It's MINDBLOWING. It's really good. The SCALE is MINDBOGGLING. It's AMAZING.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
MilesK posted:If trying to erase watermarks is industry standard, the industry can go gently caress itself. Even a child would realize that's stealing. You would think $115 million company, that sells nothing but concept art, could supply it's artists with stock photos. I have a real hard time believing its standard practice with any company that has a legal dept. Maybe internally, but if you took a prototype to a publisher with a clearly visible logo for another game in the image i would hope security escorts you out of the building. I seem to recall some indies taking flak for stuff like this, or getting pulled from steam, and the stalker remake was straight up billed as fraud when they did it. Is there any examples of this ever happening to a mainstream game though?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Furious Mittens posted:Missed you on the Dolvak stream today, Beet Yeah I popped in for a second but it was time to leave work and I didn't feel like hanging around just to shitpost. Anything cool happen?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
literal T-Swift
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
G0RF posted:Remember, Mass Effect: Andromeda takes the stage during EA's big E3 Event. If we thought the COD: IW trailer was an amazing gently caress you, just wait till ME:A is up on that stage. I can't wait.  Amazing
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
The transcript between Sean Tracy and Brian Chambers above is a wall of text, it isn't funny, nobody fumbles over their words or anything. But I hope people read it, and ask themselves if this sounds like a project that is releasing this year, or next year, or the year after that. There are STILL questions around how the cinematics will be implemented into the game There are STILL questions around how the AI will handle cinematics They are talking about building a SOLID FOUNDATION They are talking about the timezones affecting the ability to come up with DESIGN PLANS
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
SomethingJones posted:The transcript between Sean Tracy and Brian Chambers above is a wall of text, it isn't funny, nobody fumbles over their words or anything. Thank you again for doing the great service of transcribing that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:12
|
|
|
Beet Wagon posted:Thank you again for doing the great service of transcribing that poo poo. Cheers Beet, in payment please post more Kayak! My wife is actually in love with Kayak Also in all seriousness, that last transcript is absolute evidence (in the public domain) that Squadron 42 is VERY early in development, and a fair few people will be looking at that and saying to themselves 'told you so, NONE of this is seeing the light of day' Of course the cultists will be skipping all that poo poo to get to the dreams.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
female avatar, not fidelitous
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
SomethingJones posted:The transcript between Sean Tracy and Brian Chambers above is a wall of text, it isn't funny, nobody fumbles over their words or anything. Screw all that, they're talking about one-click (er.. sorry, two-click) Maya importers/exporters as if they were the second coming...
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
SomethingJones posted:Cheers Beet, in payment please post more Kayak! My wife is actually in love with Kayak I just went and read it. Holy poo poo, when you stop to think about it it's really amazing how much of the conversation centers around phrases like "we've got to figure out how..." I think I'd honestly become a little desensitized to it.  Kayak couldn't figure out why that dog was so big
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
SomethingJones posted:The transcript between Sean Tracy and Brian Chambers above is a wall of text, it isn't funny, nobody fumbles over their words or anything. They're hosed If they had every single art asset, every mission written and the system to handle branching narratives and a plan to pull it all together, maybe a year away from beta. As is they don't have all the assets, they don't have the missions written, let alone a way of making them work. What I took away from it is they have a poo poo load of mocap filming that croberts wants in, and no idea how to turn that into a game. This is my not-a-catte trying to sneak into the kitchen 
PST fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
SomethingJones posted:Around the Verse: Episode 2.35
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
Beet Wagon posted:Thank you again for doing the great service of transcribing that poo poo. SomethingJones posted:Cheers Beet, in payment please post more Kayak! My wife is actually in love with Kayak Seriously thank you, it's a huge asset And I'd say that not only is it evidence that SQ42 is early in development, it's evidence that they've shot a bunch of motion capture without having any idea whatsoever about how it'd get integrated into a game. I mean how else can you interpret this? Sean Tracy posted:That's right and we... you know... we... we got them REACTING to you, we need them having CONVERSATIONS with you, we need them giving you MISSIONS, we need... ah... all level of... all levels of different INTERPLAY between it... and then... we've got so much CONTENT that we HAVE TO GET IN so we have to figure out the BEST WAY to get it in because... uhm... SURE we can do these... the... the kind of OLD STYLE WAY were actually plugging in very bespoke scripted sequences... but AGAIN when we've got HOURS AND HOURS OF CINEMATICS, when we've got... hours and hours of GAMEPLAY that has to play between the two... we have to be very intelligent over how we actually implement this... this WORK To me that sounds an awful lot like they've got hours and hours of motion capture and dialogue for a movie that doesn't lend itself to an interactive experience at all. So lots of full conversations of Sandi talking out the story with famous actors, with no real consideration for branching dialogue or story changes that might need to happen due to concerns that emerge during development. That seems like a major, major problem when we know that mo-cap movie must have cost literally tens of millions to put together, because it suggests that they've either wasted an enormous amount of resources producing useless material or the gameplay is going to suffer as it takes a back seat to a static "cinematic" experience that doesn't integrate or mesh well with what the player is doing (or both). I mean I'm sure this isn't news to anyone in this thread, but such an explicit admission should be pretty shocking. LGD fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
They're in trouble. The mood is really turning on Reddit. The latest ATV just got a ton of comments making GBS threads on it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
So I'm minding my own business on a forum for Echo Bazaar and... LOOK WHO I SEE! http://community.failbettergames.com/messages.aspx?TopicID=22331
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 06:56 |
|
|
Midnight Voyager posted:So I'm minding my own business on a forum for Echo Bazaar and... LOOK WHO I SEE! aw crap, that makes Fallen London just a touch less appealing. Not surprising though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:34
|
|