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I wonder if the Redd White case was a turning point for him. He defended a certifiably guilty person, and it could have been the jolt his ethics needed to get him to question his methods. As to the case, I'm actually not sure what the answer is here. The old picture seems like the obvious choice - she shows genuine shock and horror in that photo, whereas she's cold and distant now, and I wonder if maybe the actor that died before was important to her. It would also give her a more personal motive for the blackmail.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:12
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She blackmailed him, he didn't really like that, so he drugged the defendant and dressed like him, to frame him for her murder. But she somehow turned that around. Showing the court the picture will probably reveal all of that. If she had gone to a lawyer rather than trying to cover everything up, she might have spun it as self defense.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:41
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cokerpilot posted:I find the fact that Municipal code needed to be made mildly disturbing. I think its just a case of a city council passing a law to make a political point. They know that they ultimately have no jurisdiction over the matter, but it may convince people to set up shop somewhere else and avoid the hassle of going to court to have the law nullified.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:43
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Omobono posted:Except it's not the way things are done in Japanifornia. The game isn't done with Edgeworth's arc yet but this is a continuation of the Redd White case for him. In Redd White, he was completely convinced that Pheonix was guilty, just the same as all the others he's prosecuted... And then Pheonix proved him wrong by having Redd White be guilty, who Edgeworth was protecting at the time... Completely at odds with his stated goal of 'convicting the guilty.' Here, he's kept up pursuing the guilty but he's not single-mindedly ruthless about it. Now that the evidence has come out he's cottoned on that Vasquez is a bit too suspicious so he's helping out. So yeah, while that's not the way things are done in Japanifornia, Edgeworth has started to figure out that the way things are done is kinda BS (a statement which is the subtle backbone of the entire series.)
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Jun 29, 2016 23:52
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Air is lava! posted:She blackmailed him, he didn't really like that, so he drugged the defendant and dressed like him, to frame him for her murder. But she somehow turned that around. Showing the court the picture will probably reveal all of that. Maybe it even was self-defense. But here's the problem - what happens to Global Studios? The only valuable asset in their back catalog is a murderer and it'll probably come out that they've been operating by blackmail? Whereas if the Steel Samurai done it, oh well, some Z-grade nobody got jealous.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:33
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bpACH posted:I think its just a case of a city council passing a law to make a political point. They know that they ultimately have no jurisdiction over the matter, but it may convince people to set up shop somewhere else and avoid the hassle of going to court to have the law nullified. Yeah, there's a bunch of municipalities and cities in California and elsewhere that have done this to make a point about nukes.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:45
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i81icu812 posted:Yeah, there's a bunch of municipalities and cities in California and elsewhere that have done this to make a point about nukes. Well it's not impossible that someone couldn't run afoul of this law, and there are a few DoE labs in California that do nuclear research. But I'm guessing that the point of the law was mostly to keep any business/university that worked in the field out of the city limits because NIMBYism.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:54
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akulanization posted:Well it's not impossible that someone couldn't run afoul of this law, and there are a few DoE labs in California that do nuclear research. But I'm guessing that the point of the law was mostly to keep any business/university that worked in the field out of the city limits because NIMBYism. It's not NIMBYism, the California cities in particular have a lot of antinuclear activists who want to make a political point. Chico is kinda out in the sticks and doesn't have much research or manufacturing going on. There are dozens and dozens of cities with nuclear free laws. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-free_zone#United_States Here's Davis: quote:RESOLUTION NO. 5115, SERIES 1984 i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 03:39
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EponymousMrYar posted:The game isn't done with Edgeworth's arc yet but this is a continuation of the Redd White case for him. In Redd White, he was completely convinced that Pheonix was guilty, just the same as all the others he's prosecuted... And then Pheonix proved him wrong by having Redd White be guilty, who Edgeworth was protecting at the time... Completely at odds with his stated goal of 'convicting the guilty.' It needs to be emphasized that the last case is the first time Edgeworth has ever outright lost in court. Some rookie lawyer rocked him and he hasn't been the same since. Hence why he tends to break composure more often here.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:29
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Plus, ever since the previous day's testimony, there's no longer any evidence at all that Powers was the murderer— and some solid (if circumstantial) evidence to the contrary. At this point, nothing is adding up to the original premise of the case. So, this is the turning point in Edgeworth's career. For most, it probably would have been acceptable to cut their losses and withdrawn their case without bothering to take it any further. But he's still willing to do the right thing by putting the new prime suspect on the spot, instead of just chalking it up to a loss.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:29
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i81icu812 posted:I'm really not sure how to illustrate that this line of thinking is absurd better than to point out that the law as written makes throwing any object within town limits against the law. I was going to counterpoint with a long, thought-out explanation about why my whole point is that it's absurd, but I realized I don't need to. Famed animal lover Lord Byron kept a tame bear as a pet at college, explicitly because there was no rule on the books specifically forbidding bears and no rule putting a blanket moratorium on all pets ever, only the specific pets listed in the rules. Now, remember that Lord Byron is not the only person in recorded history to have objected to a rule. QED.
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Jul 2, 2016 03:36
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Case 3 - Turnabout Samurai Trial (Day 4) - Part 4        : This photo reveals the motive in this murder! : ...! : I'm right, aren't I, Ms. Vasquez?: Hrrrrrrm... hmph!  : With Dee Vasquez's help, a terrible accident was swept under the carpet... Ladies and gentlemen, the case currently up for trial... It began on that day, five years ago!: ...: Ironically enough, that accident precipitated Mr. Hammer's fall... His fall from stardom! : His guilt weighed him down, no doubt.: However! You, Dee Vasquez, used Mr. Hammer. : You made him work for you for petty change!: Hmph. : Bringing us to the present day... and Mr. Hammer's last role as the Evil Magistrate!: Yes! Undoubtedly, it was a constant source of shame for the ex-star...: Hmm... : One moment, Mr. Wright. We are talking about motives, here... yet you have only talked about Mr. Hammer. : It almost seems as if... As if it was Mr. Hammer who had killed Dee Vasquez, not the other way around! What motive would Ms. Vasquez have?: Y-yes, that's right. : According to what you say... I would have had no reason to kill Hammer. He was a good source of income for me! : And I never get rid of useful men. It's a policy of mine. : Mr. Wright?  You could be forgiven for believing this is the right choice - the game's certainly trained you to believe evidence can do anything. But think about it a little.  : Okay... Allow me to present to the court evidence proving Ms. Vasquez's motive!And it doesn't matter what evidence you pick. None of it's right. : This is my proof!: And... this tells us why Ms. Vasquez wanted to kill Mr. Hammer?: I'd say all it proves is that the defense attorney has completely lost his marbles. : (Urk!): Mr. Wright! The court requests that you find your marbles immediately.  : Nick! We're so close! Think this one through, please!: Mr. Wright, I'll ask you again. Please explain Ms. Vasquez's motive for murder.  : She had no motive, Your Honor.: What's that now!?: It was Mr. Hammer who was out for blood! : What's that now!?: It's simple!: Mr. Hammer was intending to kill Ms. Vasquez!   : Wha-!?: WHAT!?  : Your Honor!       : So, you did do it, didn't you?  : I am guilty. It was me...  "Th-there's blood everywhere! We're too late!" "Aah! Ms. Vasquez!" "What...? What happened here!?" "Manuel fell from the trailer stairs...!"   "Ms. Vasquez, please, try to remain calm..." "No...! No! How could this...?" "It was an accident..." "Mr. Hammer was doing an action scene and..." "No! Manuel! Manuel!!!" "D-don't touch him! Ms. Vasquez!" "Nooooooooooooo!" "Please... please don't die." "Please..."   : Congratulations, Mr. Wright. I lose... again.We fade out for a moment. : Mr. Edgeworth... Where's Dee Vasquez? : In the waiting lobby, Your Honor. As calm and collected as ever...  : I see...: Mr. Wright.: Yes, Your Honor?: It appears you have brought about yet another miracle. : I... thank you, Your Honor.: I think not, Your Honor. Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural... not a miracle.: ... Yes. Yes, you're right.: Very well. This court finds the defendant, Mr. Will Powers... : That is all. The court is adjourned!    : Thank you so much!: I'm just glad you're okay. : Yes... but... it's sad. : I know now that Mr. Hammer stole my costume. It's bad enough that he wanted to kill Ms. Vasquez... But to think that he tried to frame me for the murder! It makes me sad...: Tell me why, Mr. Wright!: H-huh?: Tell me! : Well, this is what I think. : It's because you were the Steel Samurai.: Because I was the Steel Samurai?: Mr. Hammer was a big star, once. But he was reduced to acting in a kids' show... and as the villain, to boot! The kids love the Steel Samurai. And so, he hated you.: I... I think I understand. H-he could have just told me. I would have changed places with him any time!: (I think you're missing the point...): ...: Thank you. I'm just glad it's all over.: (So am I... so am I...) : Congratulations, WP!: Oh? Oh! Heh heh. Thanks to you, I'll be able to don the Steel Samurai outfit once more! I can't wait to get back into that sweaty costume and... : ...?: Is... something wrong? : N-no! O-of course not... : N-Nick! Edgeworth! : ...: ...: ... : Say something, Wright. I'm not good at small talk.: Huh? What? ... Umm... that was too bad, Edgeworth! : No... I really want to thank you. Vasquez would have gotten away if you hadn't stepped in.: Ah, uh, pleased to meet you. I'm Powers. *sniff*: Ah, er, Edgeworth. I'm a big fan of your work, Mr. Powers.: (Liar!): ... Wright. I must say, I hadn't expected to meet you again after all these years.: Meet "again"...?: However. : In retrospect, it would have been better had we not met. Thanks to you, I am saddled with unnecessary... feelings.: Unnecessary feelings?: Yes. Unease... and uncertainty.: Aren't those kind of necessary?: They only serve to get in my way. You listen to me, Phoenix Wright.: Don't ever show your face in front of me again.: That's what I came here to tell you.He leaves. : Umm... Mr. Wright? Is... this guy your friend? : What? Friends? As if! : They're rivals! Rivals! Right, Nick?: For now we are... I guess. : Why do I get the feeling I'm missing something? : C'mon, Nick! Tell me! What's the deal with you and Edgeworth? : I caused quite a stir by revealing that accident from five years ago. It was the talk of the town. Thankfully, Global Studios rethought its programming change. They went back to making kids' shows again.  : This is it! The new show starts today! You're going to watch it with me, right?: (I'll admit, I was kind of surprised... I didn't think they'd seriously go through with it...): You have to buy trading cards too, okay! We have to trade with Cody and that assistant!: Fine, fine. I'll do it.: Isn't it great that WP gets to play the lead again? I wonder if they'll show his real face this time...: I don't think the world is ready for the real Will Powers...  Next time: Turnabout Goodbyes Joliet, Illinois, Municipal Code Section 2-8 posted:The only official, correct and proper pronunication and spelling of the name of this city shall be Jo-li-et; the accent on the first syllable, with the "o" in the first syllable pronounced in its long sound, as in the words "so," "no" and "foe" and any other pronunciations to be discouraged as interfering with the desired uniformity in respect to the proper pronunciation of the name of this city.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:05
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Really, this all could have been prevented if they changed the fence posts after Manuel died.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:54
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Oh boy, the next case is one of my favorites in the entire series.
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Jul 2, 2016 19:04
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Mors Rattus posted:
Huh? I guess that ribbon around his belly must be really tight. Also why is Sal still in business? He was complicit in a framed murder.
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Jul 2, 2016 19:14
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Air is lava! posted:Huh? I guess that ribbon around his belly must be really tight. Or the Pink Princess is 8 feet tall.
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Jul 2, 2016 19:29
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Air is lava! posted:Huh? I guess that ribbon around his belly must be really tight. He probably just has a creator credit.
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Jul 2, 2016 19:53
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One thing I thought reading the case again: I get the feeling Oldbag realized what transpired when we showed her proof that Hammer had drugged WP. What charges is Dee going to get now (ignoring for a moment the hosed up Japanifornian legal system)? This is at most manslaughter, there's enough evidence that Hammer was out for her blood, so what's next? I guess perjury and tampering with evidence.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:08
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Omobono posted:What charges is Dee going to get now (ignoring for a moment the hosed up Japanifornian legal system)? This is at most manslaughter, there's enough evidence that Hammer was out for her blood, so what's next? I guess perjury and tampering with evidence. I don't believe I've ever seen a Phoenix Wright game touch on that, or my memory is spotty on such.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:10
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Omobono posted:One thing I thought reading the case again: There's no way they can pin a manslaughter charge, there would be enough witnesses to colaborate that Hammer was intending to kill her and he got impaled on the fence in the struggle. She's known to be connected to the mob so any prejury/tampering charge is going to be hell to get it to stick.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:55
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Assuming all the facts are available, it'd be a justifiable manslaughter if Hammer went after her with a spear and all she did was push him away. At the minimum though, she's made multiple deliberately false statements while on the stand so that is in fact perjury. She also gets multiple counts for obstruction of justice since she tampered with a criminal investigation (moving the body, destroying evidence, witness tampering). That she actually tried to make Phoenix and Maya "go away" would be a whole raft of felonies, and Gumshoe could make that stick since he barged in at the last second. To perhaps no one's surprise, legally those are all more serious than the fact one her stars went after her with vengeance in his heart and failed by tripping into the scenery.
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Jul 2, 2016 22:50
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This is a great scene. Up until this point Hammer's actions don't make any sense. The victim put on someone else's costume and walked to a studio, where he was murdered. The victim's fingerprints were found on an empty sleeping pill bottle. The victim faked an injury. Now, we knock down that one false assumption and we finally see all Hammer's actions in order and in the proper context, and suddenly it all fits together perfectly and isn't contrived at all. kw0134 posted:Assuming all the facts are available, it'd be a justifiable manslaughter if Hammer went after her with a spear and all she did was push him away. At the minimum though, she's made multiple deliberately false statements while on the stand so that is in fact perjury. She also gets multiple counts for obstruction of justice since she tampered with a criminal investigation (moving the body, destroying evidence, witness tampering). That she actually tried to make Phoenix and Maya "go away" would be a whole raft of felonies, and Gumshoe could make that stick since he barged in at the last second.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:29
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That mafia thing never does come up after the thugs show up in the trailer.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:32
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To be honest, ties with the mafia is kind of small stuff compared to some of the people Phoenix has to go up against later.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:49
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It seems to me the best way to get away with murder in Japanifornia is to kill someone, write a "confession note" saying that some guy you dislike did it, then skip town for a week. Case will be resolved by the time you come back. I mean seriously, this system has flaws you can drive a truck through.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:36
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Still, this makes it really clear: Edgeworth generally doesn't let himself believe he might be sending an innocent person to jail/the necessary blood sacrifices that keep Japanfornia from slipping into some hellish otherworld. He has to believe the system works to be such an efficient agent of the system and he's pretty pissed that Phoenix has rocked his faith in it.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:47
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EllipsisBreak posted:Don't forget she blackmailed Hammer for years too. And don't write off the self-defense "murder". Japanifornia is probably not a good place to play the self-defense card. Japaniflorida, though...
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Jul 3, 2016 09:49
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Elric posted:It seems to me the best way to get away with murder in Japanifornia is to kill someone, write a "confession note" saying that some guy you dislike did it, then skip town for a week. Case will be resolved by the time you come back. I am like, 97% sure this exact comment has already happened in this thread alone. Night10194 posted:Still, this makes it really clear: Edgeworth generally doesn't let himself believe he might be sending an innocent person to jail/the necessary blood sacrifices that keep Japanfornia from slipping into some hellish otherworld. He has to believe the system works to be such an efficient agent of the system and he's pretty pissed that Phoenix has rocked his faith in it. On the other hand, and I do love me some Good Writing, what a great way to show the chops even Phoenix didn't seriously believe he had. All his years as a prosecutor and it's some wet-behind-the-ears baby lawyer who makes Edgeworth seriously consider the possibility that maybe-maybe-he's prosecuting the wrong person Dr. Buttass fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 11:41
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I was about to make a post illustrating Edgeworth's stance and how it stems from him being basically the anti-Phoenix, and the duality of the firm beliefs of "the defendant is innocent / guilty" between those two... ... but the upcoming case will do most of the work for me, so i'll just refer to that.
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Jul 3, 2016 12:34
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Funky Valentine posted:That mafia thing never does come up after the thugs show up in the trailer. Thanks for the reminder -- let's tack on some assault and racketeering charges on for Vasquez as well, in that case.
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Jul 3, 2016 12:34
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Dr. Buttass posted:I am like, 97% sure this exact comment has already happened in this thread alone. Sure has, by the same guy no less: Elric on April 26 posted:Seems to me that the best way to kill someone in Japanafornia is to kill someone and skip town for three days while leaving a note confessing to it written by someone you dislike at the scene. Elric on July 2 posted:It seems to me the best way to get away with murder in Japanifornia is to kill someone, write a "confession note" saying that some guy you dislike did it, then skip town for a week. Case will be resolved by the time you come back.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:27
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IllegallySober posted:Sure has, by the same guy no less: At least he updated it to a week. Have to remember that there will be a whole day of investigation. Anyways, it seems to me that the best way to get away with ending someone's life in this place is to write a fake confession from the victim in blood, and then leave the area for a short time. When you come back, the case will be closed. MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 18:49
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No, no, no, the best way of getting away with murder is to commit it and pin the blame on someone else while Phoenix is on another case.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:54
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The best way is to use a wooden mallet, then burn the mallet, removing the crucial piece of evidence Phoenix needs in day 1 during the 2nd testimony.
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Jul 4, 2016 18:27
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I wonder what a gun would do to that justice system.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:54
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The best way is to use a wooden mallet, then burn the mallet, removing the crucial piece of evidence Phoenix needs in day 1 during the 2nd testimony. Don't forget to dispose of the ashes by dumping them in the next ocean over, your expendable murder suit the same way, make sure you were careful and thorough not to leave anything behind and get ahold of the script so you can write out all of the narrative causality leading to you being convicted. Oh yeah and make sure there are no witnesses or cameras of any sort. ... Sounds way easier not to commit it.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:22
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The best way is to use a wooden mallet, then burn the mallet, removing the crucial piece of evidence Phoenix needs in day 1 during the 2nd testimony. 
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Jul 4, 2016 23:48
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You know, everyone always mentions how an icicle would be the perfect murder weapon, but has there ever been an actual case of one being used?
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Jul 5, 2016 00:21
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If there was actually a recorded case, then it wouldn't be the perfect murder weapon now would it?
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Jul 5, 2016 00:45
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There was that one fable with Rasputin though. Uh, I don't think that's a particularly good case to base it off of though.
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Jul 5, 2016 01:43
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