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smash has like a 10 minute round timer loool
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Jul 1, 2016 18:21
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Brosnan posted:At the last Evo I went to the crowd picked who to cheer for in Melee based on which one would cause the game to be over sooner, which turned out to be way more emotionally involving than any other reason to support a player would be. I am so, so glad I sprung for the floor seats this year because it means I can leave during lovely games and not have to worry about losing my spot.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:21
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I never got the appeal of competitive Smash Bros. It takes everything fun away from the base game. It's so boring to watch and play.MinibarMatchman posted:same, the melee matches last year were gently caress awful and I find competitive melee bad in general. do we really need two loving smash bros games? The reason is that Smash Bros. is part of the "brawler" or "platform fighter" sub-genre of fighting games. When it comes to that subgenre players have the following choices. Smash 64, Smash Melee, Smash Brawl, Smash 4, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Brawlhalla, and Rivals of Aether. Those are more or less all of the games in the genre ever released that had some sort of serious effort behind them, so it is very slimpickings. The entire subgenre is about the size of all the competitive traditional 2D fighters currently being played. On top of that, many of the games I listed were either poorly received (PSABR) or are too niche to get off the ground (RoA). As a result, most people who enjoy the sub-genre just play Smash. Though Brawlhalla seems to be making in way. Dias posted:https://twitter.com/EvilMrWizard/status/748775258828578817 It saddens me that Xrd's numbers are lower than EVO 2015. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 18:24
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im really sad KOF won't be out in time for this, too bad it didn't have an early arcade release
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Jul 1, 2016 18:32
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I feel like watching Smash would be more interesting if I had any idea what was going on? Like I'm sure there's some strategy in the game, and the players are making reads and reacting to things, and I've heard it even sort of has setplay in a way, but any time I watch Smash it looks like the characters are just doing things.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:36
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smash would be more fun to watch with items on
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Jul 1, 2016 18:38
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may contain peanuts posted:I feel like watching Smash would be more interesting if I had any idea what was going on? Like I'm sure there's some strategy in the game, and the players are making reads and reacting to things, and I've heard it even sort of has setplay in a way, but any time I watch Smash it looks like the characters are just doing things. It's not designed in any capacity to be a competitive game so it's just boring
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Jul 1, 2016 18:40
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Kuvo posted:smash would be more fun to watch with items on Didn't they do that in Evo 2008 and some random kid who never played tournaments made it all the way to finals?
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Jul 1, 2016 18:54
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Mr E posted:I'm way more angry than I should be that these people exist. This guy's avatar is good. He's alright. Garnavis posted:Has anyone, as a beginner, actually found those "controlling space" breakdown videos useful? I'm starting to think they only make sense to players who are already experienced. They always give the example of Ryu controlling a horizontal band with fireballs and a the air in front of him with DPs. But I rarely feel like I actually control any of that space, since opponents can just block or jump over or counter-fireball my fireballs, and I don't really control the space in front of me because I can't get a fireball off safely if they're right there. The point being, it doesn't feel like any space is being "controlled" and the stuff I end up thinking about in a match is poke ranges and mix ups and stuff like that. So am I just playing FGs wrong or is the whole "controlling space" idea just a nice abstraction that's not helpful for beginners? I know this is a few days old but I wanted to say -- One thing about looking at these sorts of materials when you'relearning something new like Fighting games is that you're going to want to periodically return to and review them. Sure, the first time you watch them when you are brand new, you might not get much out of them - you don't actually know enough or even have a good enough sense of the game even know *what* you are missing. But then you put in a few more hours, preferably a few chunks a day, across several days (or more) at a time, giving your brain a bit of time to learn from your experience. Then you occasionally go look at things like this and you can even just see how much you've learned by way of how much more you can actually pick out of a video like that. Especially in less accessible/old school games, I've countless time watched a character tutorial, thought I picked up a bunch, but it was only a month later when I re-watched it that I noticed all kinds of details I missed the first time through. Fayk fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 19:03
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Jmcrofts posted:Turns out smash players don't like other games either (this is from CEO Revelator t8) FWIW that was Melee players, who are notably even more lovely than typical given Smash 4 players. Now, maybe the Smash 4 players could end up just as bad given they are cut from the same cloth, but so far I haven't really seen or met any cases like that and it's just Melee players who boo other games before their finals and etc. They both are still stupidly entitled communities tho. brian posted:smash is a fine game with some nice people in the scene but i would prefer if they didn't get added to big FGC events as there isn't enough time for FGs already at the ones I go to, at locals I think mixing everything is good for everyone though, just bigger events suffer when smash (and tekken in the uk apparently) are involved because they seem to consistently get aggravated about stream time while repeatedly lying about how long their section will take and over filling it with games then not caring about anyone else because the crossover is so small. A lot of other games have gone over time over many events, and a there are plenty of other games that have taken just as long as Melee. What I would argue for is to get them to stop running their Double's tournaments. Those things are glacial and somehow even more boring.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:28
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Melee goes over its time slot in literally every tournament I've watched in the last few years
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Jul 1, 2016 19:31
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Madmarker posted:I guess I am just weird. I love melee and fighting games just about equally. i like smash with items Ventana posted:FWIW that was Melee players, who are notably even more lovely than typical given Smash 4 players. Now, maybe the Smash 4 players could end up just as bad given they are cut from the same cloth, but so far I haven't really seen or met any cases like that and it's just Melee players who boo other games before their finals and etc. They both are still stupidly entitled communities tho. it ALWAYS runs over time because their format is a loving insane timehog that only works for smash only tournaments. punk rebel ecks posted:Didn't they do that in Evo 2008 and some random kid who never played tournaments made it all the way to finals? IDK if it was evo but said kid got harassed into giving up his trophy and they stole some setups to run their own finals, interrupting Street Fighter. Got melee banned from a lot of tournaments for a long time. Pomp fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 19:31
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Pomp posted:
Are you talking about the Round Robin pools? Yeah those should go away too
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Jul 1, 2016 19:34
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Smash didn't need to be a part of the FGC but it is now probably because $$$$$$
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Jul 1, 2016 19:38
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No I'm talking about 4 stock on an 8 minute timer. 1 match can take as longer than an entire set for other games. There were a bunch asking for top 8 to be all bo5 at evo 
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Jul 1, 2016 19:39
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Pomp posted:No I'm talking about 4 stock on an 8 minute timer. 1 match can take as longer than an entire set for other games. Oh, well yeah I can agree that it should be 3 stock 3 (or 4) min timer as well, though most matches don't really go past 4 minutes per single game anyways. If that match is a particularly long match (usually not the case) and the set for other games in question was really short (mostly isn't the case for EVO, though for other Majors yeah it's a thing), that could happen, but by in large.....no?
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Jul 1, 2016 19:44
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Does Powerstone count as a platform brawler? They should play that instead.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:55
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Celebrity Ghost posted:Does Powerstone count as a platform brawler? They should play that instead. arena
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Jul 1, 2016 19:58
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Ixiggle posted:Smash didn't need to be a part of the FGC but it is now probably because $$$$$$ Smash is like the opposite of $$$ (which is grassroots I guess?). Nintendo didn't acknowledge it existed for years.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:59
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And here I thought CvS2 was bad for taking god drat forever
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Jul 1, 2016 20:00
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It's $$$ for TOs because you put smash on the roster and the crowd will arrive
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Jul 1, 2016 20:01
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may contain peanuts posted:I feel like watching Smash would be more interesting if I had any idea what was going on? Like I'm sure there's some strategy in the game, and the players are making reads and reacting to things, and I've heard it even sort of has setplay in a way, but any time I watch Smash it looks like the characters are just doing things. I try not to post about it in this thread but this seems like an earnest attempt to understand a game that's quickly becoming A Thing at major tournaments so forgive me for the smash post in the FG thread, but it's with the best intentions. The most recent one plays competitively with a 2-stock meta, which plays out similar to a best 2/3 set in a traditional FG except like KI health doesn't reset between rounds. The objective is to damage the other player until they're in a vulnerable state and then kill them- health is replaced with a damage percent, and the higher your percent the farther damage done to you will send you. The controls play like an inversion of a traditional fightstick, where the action buttons are relatively simple but the movement stick is very complex, registering different results at 16 points around the gate with analog movement scaling between neutral and the gate, which is really where the heart of everything in the game's meta stems from. There's also low and high jump inputs and everyone has at least one airjump. Stage ledges work like an inversion of the corner in a traditional FG, where invisible walls are replaced with empty space and if you're pushed into one you're in a very dangerous position the opponent can exploit to rack up a lot of damage or pressure you to death. Different characters have different ways to close "sets" and secure kills, which most often involves a read or a setup or a hit confirm into a kill move or an Instant Kill-style play offstage. I don't know too much about melee but Smash 4 has a big emphasis on stage control, footsies, spacing and confirming into combos and kills, and it's probably the most traditional FG variation of the Smash formula to date.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:06
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Celebrity Ghost posted:Does Powerstone count as a platform brawler? They should play that instead. I was literally about to post that they should replace Melee with Power Stone. At least we're getting two Power Stone clones in the next year or so (LAST FIGHT and Combat Core). Smash 4 is pretty cool and I don't have a problem with it being at Evo, the problem is that from what I've seen Melee players are on the whole pretty lovely (no idea if the Evo Melee players are like that) and we don't need two Smash games when they could give the slot to something more interesting instead, basically. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 20:08
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inthesto posted:And here I thought CvS2 was bad for taking god drat forever As long as they avoid esoteric stuff like 4/7 grand finals, it should be fine.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:30
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replace melee with Rivals of Aether
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Jul 1, 2016 20:34
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I think it would be cool if they dropped Melee to being a large side tourney and had one main stage slot every year reserved for a classic game. Like help people who are relatively new to the FGC discover how cool Vsav or Alpha or MvC2 or w/e are by featuring one as a main stage game to get people back into it for a bit.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:37
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Reiley posted:The most recent one plays competitively with a 2-stock meta, which plays out similar to a best 2/3 set in a traditional FG except like KI health doesn't reset between rounds. Reiley posted:registering different results at 16 points around the gate with analog movement scaling between neutral and the gate, which is really where the heart of everything in the game's meta stems from. Why are you using "meta" in what seems to be two different contexts? What does "meta" even mean? Could you use words that actually mean something?
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Jul 1, 2016 20:37
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it still blows my mind that no one's tried to make melee but without stupid hard inputs for all the cool poo poo on a budget of more than six dollars and half a leftover burrito. updating melee with modern sensibilities and not saurakizing it would probably do well-ish so long as it had netcode.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:37
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Brosnan posted:I think it would be cool if they dropped Melee to being a large side tourney and had one main stage slot every year reserved for a classic game. Like help people who are relatively new to the FGC discover how cool Vsav or Alpha or MvC2 or w/e are by featuring one as a main stage game to get people back into it for a bit. so just make marvel 2 a mainstage game every year you mean, i agree. especially if it replaced another dead game. hmm. like, marvel 3? yes.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:39
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Brosnan posted:I think it would be cool if they dropped Melee to being a large side tourney and had one main stage slot every year reserved for a classic game. Like help people who are relatively new to the FGC discover how cool Vsav or Alpha or MvC2 or w/e are by featuring one as a main stage game to get people back into it for a bit. what how are you gonna make any money off that you idiot
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Jul 1, 2016 20:41
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anime was right posted:so just make marvel 2 a mainstage game every year you mean, i agree. but marvel 3 has more entrants than mkx ki and tekken
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Jul 1, 2016 20:41
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anime was right posted:so just make marvel 2 a mainstage game every year you mean, i agree. That was the subtext but I thought I hid it pretty well
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Jul 1, 2016 20:41
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anime was right posted:it still blows my mind that no one's tried to make melee but without stupid hard inputs for all the cool poo poo on a budget of more than six dollars and half a leftover burrito. updating melee with modern sensibilities and not saurakizing it would probably do well-ish so long as it had netcode. http://store.steampowered.com/app/383980/ e: if you actually care I made an indepth thread for that game a while back, and they recently added an insanely good tutorial for teaching smash tech and the netplay is great http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3743552
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Jul 1, 2016 20:44
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For a game to be in majors it must have a. high entrants/viewer counts b. publisher money hat or c. both I'd love to see old games at Evo again but it just aint happening unless we have some kind of FGC apocalypse scenario where all the new games/players die off.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:44
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does this evo even have side tournaments anymore or BYOC area did they stop doing that already idk
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Jul 1, 2016 20:46
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Yes there is BYOC why wouldn't there be?
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Jul 1, 2016 20:49
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Jmcrofts posted:For a game to be in majors it must have Agree, sadly, but it'll never happen. I dunno if other oldgames fans would agree, but I'd even settle for poo poo like just get some official sanctionining/space for 'big enough' side tourneys (ST, vsav, etc) because the BYOC is a bit limited/inconsistent (disclosure: haven't been to evo in a year or two) and then some minimal late-night stream of the top 8/4 or something.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:51
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Fayk posted:I dunno if other oldgames fans would agree, but I'd even settle for poo poo like just get some official sanctionining/space for 'big enough' side tourneys (ST, vsav, etc) because the BYOC is a bit limited/inconsistent (disclosure: haven't been to evo in a year or two) and then some minimal late-night stream of the top 8/4 or something. Didn't this happen with ST 2 years ago? When Mao won the tournament?
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Jul 1, 2016 20:54
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kind of interesting: https://twitter.com/CurlingW/status/748896353393078273 Seems weird that Xrd has less entrants. BattleHamster fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 20:55
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Lynx Winters posted:Why are you using "meta" in what seems to be two different contexts? What does "meta" even mean? Could you use words that actually mean something? The game can and often enough is played with three stocks as well, and the other popular Smash game plays with four stocks, which changes the flow of the game a little bit since closing one stock doesn't reset both players to neutral with full health to start again, everything done to you carries over after you land a kill, like if SF played best of 5 matches would that change when and how a player uses meter? In the second case, the analog movement plays a big role in the options you choose to match different situations, since the same one aerial attack can have a half-dozen different uses depending on what angle and how much momentum you apply to it, and a lot of the tech you learn above and outside of the game is based around the way the stick works The whole game is built around complex movement, I tried to make a cutesy comparison to the game's three action buttons and 16-point analog stick to a traditional FG's six action buttons and eight-point digital stick, to help convey what is happening on the screen and what the players are trying to do.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:00
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