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VikingofRock posted:This is mostly true in my experience (and I use a Mac too), but Apple keeps doing things which make life harder for physicists so people are maybe starting to move away from OSX. The SIP stuff with El Capitan in particular broke a ton of physics software and made everyone mad. lol why does your physics software conflict with not dicking with system binaries how
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Jul 11, 2016 22:30
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Cocoa Crispies posted:lol IIRC it was mostly not allowing stuff to access LD_LIBRARY_PATH (if that wasn't technically part of SIP then my bad).
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Jul 11, 2016 22:34
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time to figure out what desktop environment i want. are there some that are particularly bad? e: looking a few pages back, looks like gnome is bad cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 22:35
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everything that isn't gnome. if your vm can't handle the gpu virtualization that gnome requires then your vm is bad, get a better one. vmware player has a free non-commercial license.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:45
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Mr Dog posted:everything that isn't gnome.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:46
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VikingofRock posted:This is mostly true in my experience (and I use a Mac too), but Apple keeps doing things which make life harder for physicists so people are maybe starting to move away from OSX. The SIP stuff with El Capitan in particular broke a ton of physics software and made everyone mad. what was the software doing wrong that System Integrity Protection prevented from breaking peoples' systems? the biggest problem I know of is some Python installer that replaces /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework which breaks Xcode because LLDB uses Python, SIP helps by preventing that replacement also there's probably plenty of lovely software that installs to /usr instead of /usr/local, SIP also helps the user by preventing that also kernel extension developers weren't signing their poo poo and were installing them in /System/Library/Extensions instead of /Library/Extensions where they belonged
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Jul 11, 2016 22:52
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VikingofRock posted:IIRC it was mostly not allowing stuff to access LD_LIBRARY_PATH (if that wasn't technically part of SIP then my bad). nobody should need to override DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH et al in normal use, only during development
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Jul 11, 2016 22:54
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eschaton posted:what was the software doing wrong that System Integrity Protection prevented from breaking peoples' systems? yeah this if your software is incompatible with SIP it is broken, no excuses if you can't just install files in the right place where they don't conflict with os stuff, it's probably because what you want is dumb and wrong i'd bet it's just a persistent culture problem in scientific computing to not learn how to use a computer right
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Jul 11, 2016 23:03
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eschaton posted:nobody should need to override DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH et al in normal use, only during development IDK but apparently every piece of physics software uses it during normal use. VikingofRock fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 23:07
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its all garbage written by math profs. its never gonna work outside their personal machine they haven't updated in 20 years.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:08
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Shaggar posted:its all garbage written by math profs. its never gonna work outside their personal machine they haven't updated in 20 years.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:08
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scientific computing is why we keep fortran compilers around
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Jul 11, 2016 23:09
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old academic mindset is that computer is a calculator, yes
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Jul 11, 2016 23:09
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lol @ using python and complaining about things not working reliably from machine to machine
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Jul 11, 2016 23:10
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Shaggar posted:lol @ using python and complaining about things not working reliably from machine to machine 
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Jul 11, 2016 23:14
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Shaggar posted:its all garbage written by math profs. its never gonna work outside their personal machine they haven't updated in 20 years. Nah, for me at least most of this stuff was written by NASA and is intended to be used on a variety of unix systems both old and modern.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:41
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kalstrams posted:old academic mindset is that computer is a calculator, yes friend calculator
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Jul 12, 2016 02:11
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Shaggar posted:its all garbage written by math profs. its never gonna work outside their personal machine they haven't updated in 20 years. it's a miracle if it even compiles on osx
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Jul 12, 2016 02:24
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fritz posted:it's a miracle if it even compiles on osx http://reproducibility.cs.arizona.edu/v2/index.html quote:
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Jul 12, 2016 02:29
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VikingofRock posted:IDK but apparently every piece of physics software uses it during normal use. you can fix your dynamic links if the authors distributed broken binaries alternatively your build scripts are broken
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Jul 12, 2016 08:37
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I should have said "used it during normal use", since it's pretty much all fixed now. Also don't read my posts as an indictment of Apple or anything--I'm just talking about what went on in the physics world and giving an example of why some physicists were unhappy with Apple (even if that anger was arguably misplaced). Stuff like breaking a bunch of physics programs--even if those programs used bad practices--has some physicists leaning towards moving away from OSX and back to Linux, which is what started this whole discussion.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:31
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I dipped my toe into the basic machine learning stuff and that was a nightmare of modifying build scripts and headers to point at libraries this is also compounded by Intel, Nvidia, etc. being irritating wankers with library distribution
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Jul 12, 2016 09:34
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VikingofRock posted:I should have said "used it during normal use", since it's pretty much all fixed now. Also don't read my posts as an indictment of Apple or anything--I'm just talking about what went on in the physics world and giving an example of why some physicists were unhappy with Apple (even if that anger was arguably misplaced). Stuff like breaking a bunch of physics programs--even if those programs used bad practices--has some physicists leaning towards moving away from OSX and back to Linux, which is what started this whole discussion. well at least then your libraries being hosed up will be expected instead of a surprise
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Jul 12, 2016 09:56
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ahmeni posted:I dipped my toe into the basic machine learning stuff and that was a nightmare of modifying build scripts and headers to point at libraries import sklearn
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Jul 12, 2016 09:58
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VikingofRock posted:Nah, for me at least most of this stuff was written by NASA and is intended to be used on a variety of unix systems both old and modern. nasa is largely math profs running 20-30 year old software/hardware
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Jul 12, 2016 14:06
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Shaggar posted:nasa is largely math profs running 20-30 year old software/hardware
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Jul 12, 2016 14:11
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Shaggar posted:nasa is largely math profs running 20-30 year old software/hardware 
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Jul 12, 2016 16:11
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Shaggar posted:nasa is largely math profs running 20-30 year old software/hardware No, it's not.
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Jul 12, 2016 18:53
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microsoft microsoft windows 95 microsoft internet explorer was such a good os
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Jul 12, 2016 19:04
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kalstrams posted:lets get it first working reliably on the same machine at some point they should probably just go 'here's a docker image' and call it a day
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Jul 12, 2016 21:22
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Jimmy Carter posted:at some point they should probably just go 'here's a docker image' and call it a day This is increasingly a thing lately and I hate it
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Jul 12, 2016 21:23
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Jimmy Carter posted:at some point they should probably just go 'here's a docker image' and call it a day haha so here's a docker problem a docker image doesn't include a kernel because it just uses the host linux so… if you have a weirdo 32-bit research platform that you want to use, you can't docker without a vagrant
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Jul 12, 2016 22:58
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Shaggar posted:nasa is largely math profs running 20-30 year old software/hardware Lol if you actually think this.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:01
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Cocoa Crispies posted:haha so here's a docker problem insert that dumb regex quote but with docker
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Jul 13, 2016 01:21
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ratbert90 posted:Lol if you actually think this. it's shaggar. he's is referring to OS X and macs so it's basically true
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Jul 13, 2016 02:32
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so i tried installing various linuxes on my thinkpad again i've been running arch on it because it was the only thing i could get to work, and even then only through archboot. every installation image i try (fedora, lubuntu, debian, arch) gives squashfs errors at varying points in the process. it doesn't look as though anyone else online has been having this problem  archboot does some initramfs sorcery and runs entirely out of ram rather than off the usb drive so works with no problems. i tried multiple different usb drives and tried writing the installation media with BSD dd and GNU dd, and also creating it on a windows machine with unetbootin. the only thing i am thinking now is that coincidentally all my usb drives are sandisk - is this potentially a problem? edit: no i just booted into lubuntu off one of them with no problems on my other computer welp cadenza fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 05:25
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thats a lot of effort for a linux, idk if ive seen that much trying since i tried to compile a lovely driver for my slackware install in 1999
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Jul 13, 2016 06:11
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cadenza posted:so i tried installing various linuxes on my thinkpad again have you tried partitioning your internal drive so you can boot off of it instead of a usb? but honestly it sounds like something is fsked
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Jul 13, 2016 06:13
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:have you tried partitioning your internal drive so you can boot off of it instead of a usb? Yes! Bypass usb entirely. Plug your laptop drive elsewhere and provision it with fedora. Then move it back. The usb firmware is bad or you have a failing Even better, keep the drive in the laptop in order to perform the most spergiest of installations - PXE network install
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Jul 13, 2016 08:46
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celeron 300a posted:Even better, keep the drive in the laptop in order to perform the most spergiest of installations - PXE network install sounds like someone's never booted a workstation from tape
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Jul 13, 2016 11:46
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