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EponymousMrYar posted:My take on it is that the Elder God doesn't quite care who serves it as long as it gets served. It didn't care much about the hylden and vampire war until the hylden cursed the vampires away from it. Yeah that's how I understood it too. It was on the vampires side until they became immortal and therefore outside the Wheel of Fate and since it could no longer feast on their souls, it tried to help the hylden because they had the most potential to provide more souls for it to eat. As Raziel said, it's a parasite. It doesn't care about vampires, hylden or humans so long as it gets fed.
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Jul 14, 2016 22:20
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double nine posted:(Raziel comments on how much it grows during times of war and chaos and how weak and puny it looks elsewhen)  Suddenly everything makes a lot more sense. Remember how in the True Histories, Raziel says that the vampires attacked the Hylden first?The Elder God was hungry
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Jul 14, 2016 22:42
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double nine posted:I dislike the physical vs mental contradiction in terms of being outside of time is what I'm saying. You're talking about the reality bending being of who the main disciple is called the time streamer and that we literally saw will Kain through time and space just a few updates ago. If he cannot project his consciousness through time then he at the very least has someone filling him in, it's not a big leap is all I'm saying.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:37
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I just recorded the last 2 updates and it turned out that I have no idea what last words to say after doing a series for 15 months, so my words during the final credits are quite messy. Just FYI 
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Jul 14, 2016 23:42
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Aren't the Hylden immortal?
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Jul 15, 2016 01:38
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I always assumed the Elder God wanted the Hylden to break out because their emergence would involve a bunch of war, strife, and death, thus feeding him. Maybe he was or wasn't proactive in that (with all the time-fuckery that goes on in the series, who can say what and where it all began and in what timeline), but it was definitely something he stood to benefit from.
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Jul 15, 2016 09:10
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We're almost there.
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Jul 15, 2016 11:52
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Some of this poo poo is just starting to make sense to me for the first time, having seen the plot unfold from Blood Omen to Defiance without that huge gap left by never actually playing/seeing BO2 or SR2. But one thing isn't making sense to me and I can't remember if it was just a big gaping hole in the plot or if it's ever addressed: How is Vorador still alive in BO2? Is it a result of the same time travel paradox shenanigans that wound up bringing Janos Audron back to life for it, or are we now residing in some timeline where the Sarafan didn't actually succeed in killing Vorador?
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Jul 15, 2016 14:01
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KieranWalker posted:How is Vorador still alive in BO2?
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Jul 15, 2016 14:09
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Raygereio posted:That's one of the plotholes kindly gifted to us by the BO2 team that Defiance didn't manage to cover. So it would seem. Although I do remember Moebius saying something to Raziel about how Vorador was still alive for the moment, so they could kill him slowly. It's never explicitly stated, but perhaps Vorador managed to free himself after Moebius was called away?
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Jul 15, 2016 14:13
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KieranWalker posted:So it would seem. Although I do remember Moebius saying something to Raziel about how Vorador was still alive for the moment, so they could kill him slowly. Like Alexey mentioned in the video 19, the dev team goofed up. In BO1, we witnessed Vorador's execution, then decapitated Moebius. Afterward Mortanius called Kain to the Pillars. In Defiance we overheard Mortanius calling Kain to the Pillars. Later when we returned to Vorador's Mansion, we saw Moebius who implied that they just caught Vorador and were hauling him off to be executed. Personally I like the theory that Moebius traveled through time to simply gloat at Raziel and then traveled back to face his death at the hands of BO1-era Kain. Pointlessly dickish and so definitely something Moebius would do (*). But that does mean that Vorador would already be dead by this point. The Lost Worlds does mention that showing Vorador's resurrection was on the drawing table for Defiance at one point. But honestly, I still think it's best to disregard BO2 entirely. It just messes the story up. *: Though there might be an alternative explanation for Moebius' appearance here, which we should see in the next video. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 14:30
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If I remember right, Defiance was originally going to explain away that plothole but like the catacombs and exploring the city of Avernus itself, it never came to fruition.
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Jul 15, 2016 14:57
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I wondered in the last update if Defiance has glitch speedruns. The answer, unsurprisingly, is yes.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:31
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The last Raziel update showed us Raziels worst crime: by failing to kill Janos he caused BO2 to happen.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:45
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Aaaand we're done. It's been fun, for the most part.
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Jul 16, 2016 13:57
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God, I love that entire last sequence. Everything from Moebius's comeuppance at the hands of Raziel, to Kain's disgusted "what in the hell?" at first seeing the Elder God... well, pretty much every word of it from the start of this video to the credits rolling. It's a hell of a ride, and a shame the series is over, but at the same time, what better way could the Legacy of Kain have ended? Kain's final words say it best. "That terrible illusion: Hope." Thanks, Alexey.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:28
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Dammit, Kain stole the joke I was gonna make!  Thanks for all the LPs! They made me glad I supported these guys a bit by buying a copy of the 2nd Soul Reaver so long ago, even if I didn't manage to finish it. Moebius was probably my favorite part of the series. His interactions with Kain/Raziel were especially fun to watch.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:30
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Thank you so much for doing these games justice. Soul Reaver was one of my favorite games when I was a kid, and I never got to play Defiance. The middle of the game lagged a bit, but I really enjoyed the ending--it's the perfect note to go out on, and the last boss felt like a callback to Zephon, which I think was the high point of the series. I've really enjoyed your commentary, too. It was lots of fun to learn about the cut content and design decisions and it never felt like you were needlessly trashing the games or ignoring their flaws.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:33
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I don't want it to end like this, but this can ACTUALLY be good. Like honestly! Ending on "Hope" is beautiful!
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Jul 16, 2016 14:56
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Yeah, it's been one hell of a ride. No matter how many times I see it, the finale of Defiance still feels utterly epic. e: Yeah, well, ending on "hope" is more beautiful than ending on "we got bought out by Squeenix who proceeded to turn Kain's world into a multiplayer shooter that they pulled the plug on right when it started being fun".
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Jul 16, 2016 14:58
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah, it's been one hell of a ride. No matter how many times I see it, the finale of Defiance still feels utterly epic. I would say that the only redeeming thing from LoK6 was the multiplayer arena game they pulled out of it. This was going to be the main character of the Sixth game.    Of-course more information can be found at a few different websites: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/24/legacy-of-kain-dead-sun-cancelled/ https://www.unseen64.net/tag/legacy-of-kain/ http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_game Honestly I'm alright with the Sixth game not being made at that moment cause it didn't sound great and it was in a turbulent time for everyone. It woulda been a game people forgot even existed, I would bet money on this.
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Jul 16, 2016 15:15
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It would've been nice to get another game to tie up the loose ends, like restoring the pillars and maybe eradicating the hylden, but then again, another LoK game means a gamble of getting another Blood Omen 2. Thanks for the LP! Blood Omen was one of my first exposures to PSX games. I was a young teenager when it came out, and that opening cutscene was pretty mindblowing in comparison to the bright sunny family-friendly graphics of the SNES era. It was pretty rad to see that games could have these dark, serious tones to them. Sure, Mortal Kombat predates it, but that was all rather silly and just a fighting game Edit: ^^I dunno, it seemed like with a little more polish, that game might've been cool. I saw a youtubes of that, and I kinda liked the look of the spirit realm. But you are right, like I said earlier, that game could've just as easily ended up just as crappy or worse than BO2 Slightly Absurd fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 15:18
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And there we have it. The ONE time in the whole game that Kain smiles out of sheer joy, even if it's tinged with a bit of malice. All the times before now have been mostly malice or intimidation. This time, he's just happy  EDIT: I can only imagine Raziel would have the same satisfied smile in the spectral realm, were he capable of smiling at all
Vicissitude fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 15:33
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Mobius "To kill me? Again?!" is great, Kain smiling (not just smirking) twice in a row for what I believe is the first and second time in the entirety on the series is great, "Do you so enjoy death?" "Yes!" is great, Kain still sincerely not wanting Raziel to die for real is great, the last words of Kain are great. The finale to the Soul Reaver series is just so memorable and a great conclusion to the story of Raziel, while also showing a good amount of character development both for him and Kain. Watching it again after my playthrough all those years ago was a treat, even with the less memorable parts.
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Jul 16, 2016 15:59
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Thanks everyone Yes, Kain's smile is absolutely priceless. I also really like the verbal beatdown that Kain delivers to the Elder God before the fight: "Your words are heartening, for you would not fear us, unless we could truly do you harm!" I especially like the "us" part.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:09
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I would say Kain gained his humanity back from the purifying, but it happened even before then. This is the first time Kain has been human in a long time. Not that he was a completely unlikable jerk, but he showed that he cared for someone other than himself. That's just deep.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:16
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I'm just bummed that we'll never get a Raziel and Kain buddy game. Maybe Raziel can project himself outside the sword, if only visually, because he's sane in there. Having him shift appearance between his vampire self and wraith self based on mood would be an interesting visual appeal. I'm sure Kain would be the straight man to all of his partner's sarcasm, too.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:26
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Vicissitude posted:I'm just bummed that we'll never get a Raziel and Kain buddy game. Maybe Raziel can project himself outside the sword, if only visually, because he's sane in there. Having him shift appearance between his vampire self and wraith self based on mood would be an interesting visual appeal. I'm sure Kain would be the straight man to all of his partner's sarcasm, too. Actually that's something I pictured. Since the sword is actually PURE now and it never was before... Maybe Raziel isn't completely imprisoned, but could possibly take some form and communicate.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:43
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So LoK6 would basically be Transistor.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:04
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Vicissitude posted:I'm just bummed that we'll never get a Raziel and Kain buddy game. Maybe Raziel can project himself outside the sword, if only visually, because he's sane in there. Having him shift appearance between his vampire self and wraith self based on mood would be an interesting visual appeal. I'm sure Kain would be the straight man to all of his partner's sarcasm, too. There was a Legacy of Kain DLC for Lara Croft: Guardian of Light which had Kain and Raziel team up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNqwbjGa8FI
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Jul 16, 2016 19:21
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Mr. Fortitude posted:There was a Legacy of Kain DLC for Lara Croft: Guardian of Light which had Kain and Raziel team up. I did not know this existed, I must now acquire it. Oh, also: Good to finally see this game see justice done.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:32
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I love how they handled the dialogue in that. How even after all the events of the LoK series and the end of Defiance, Kain would still be like, "Listen to me, you little rear end in a top hat!" and Raziel still responds, "Go gently caress yourself, Kain!"
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Jul 16, 2016 19:35
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Mr. Fortitude posted:There was a Legacy of Kain DLC for Lara Croft: Guardian of Light which had Kain and Raziel team up. The suppressed memories  I hated this the moment I saw this ages ago. The lines are so oddly cut out.
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Jul 16, 2016 20:55
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IT. IS. DONE. Good games (what's BO2? I've never heard of BO2 good sir  ,) good LP.Slightly Absurd posted:I love how they handled the dialogue in that. How even after all the events of the LoK series and the end of Defiance, Kain would still be like, "Listen to me, you little rear end in a top hat!" and Raziel still responds, "Go gently caress yourself, Kain!" Even though it was more like: 'WAIT I DON'T WANT TO KILL YOU' 'YOU HAVE TO KILL ME' 'NO' 'YES' 'NO I DON'T WANT THIS' 'I DO IT'S MY CHOICE AND WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN' 'WHAT' 'I NEED TO BECOME YOUR SWORD LITERALLY' 'THAT IS DUMB' 'IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO HURT THE REAL ENEMY' 'WHY' 'BECAUSE PROPHECY IS DUMB also i am dead' 'NO RAZIEL wow that is a giant ugly squid'
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Jul 16, 2016 20:58
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I love how nothing is wasted in this finale. The fact that Raziel uses corpses to manifest himself, for example. It gives him a way to trick Kain into stabbing him.
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Jul 16, 2016 21:00
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EponymousMrYar posted:IT. IS. DONE.
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Jul 16, 2016 21:28
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Alexeythegreat posted:The suppressed memories
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Jul 16, 2016 21:33
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EponymousMrYar posted:Even though it was more like: good point
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Jul 16, 2016 22:00
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I'm a bit confused as to what that whole corruption business was supposed to be about. I mean its obvious with the circle members in BO1 but other than the implication that Kain's ending choice was the result of his corruption it never seemed to have any effect on him, so I wonder what exactly curing him in the ending is supposed to have accomplished? Or was that the reason he couldn't see the squid? And if so, wouldn't the ancient vampires or whoever have seen it too, since they were never corrupted in the first place?
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Jul 16, 2016 22:38
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Thanks Alexey for going through these games, the story has always been one of my favorites!
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Jul 16, 2016 23:38
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