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Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer



Latest update:


Thread title courtesy of Rigged Death Trap.
Alternative titles:
1) What in the hell... Let's Play Legacy of Kain: Defiance (SorataYuy)
2) I AM THE ORIGIN OF LIFE (Legacy of Kain: Defiance) (Me)
3) Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Where Impaling People is Fun (Me)
4) Legacy of Kain: Defiance (me)


It's time.


Other LoK LPs:

Blood Omen: playlist/thread/archive (note: low quality compared to the other three, I had no clue what I was doing for the first 2/3 of the LP)
Soul Reaver: playlist/thread/archive
Soul Reaver 2: playlist/thread/archive
Blood Omen 2: playlist/thread/archive

Legacy of Kain: Defiance is the fifth and the last Legacy of Kain. We are Kain and we are Raziel.
1) Raziel is looking for a way to not get trapped inside the Reaver and to escape from THE ORIGIN OF LIFE THE HUB OF THE WHEEL THE DEVOURER OF DEATH;
2) Kain is looking for a way for Raziel to not get trapped inside the Reaver and to prevent Blood Omen 2 from happening;
3) Moebius and THE ORIGIN OF LIFE THE HUB OF THE WHEEL THE DEVOURER OF DEATH are performing an evil, as usual.
4) New combat;
5) Linear progression;
6) Amy Hennig fixed most of the trash that BO2 unleashed upon us. Not all of it, but most of it.

Spoilers
Use tags.

The LP
It's a 100% LP where I collect everything there is to collect, sometimes against my better judgment.

Videos























Alexeythegreat fucked around with this message at Jul 16, 2016 around 12:57

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Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Alexey's note: beware the spoilers!

KieranWalker posted:

Ah, Defiance. Definitely the best game in the series, all around. They really managed to work out most of the flaws this time around; combat can still get fairly tedious, but you've got more variety and some nifty abilities to make up for it (impaling dudes on wall-mounted hooks or throwing them over cliffs is always entertaining). The more hacky-slashy combat may be hit or miss for some, but I find it more engaging than SR/SR2's if only because it's faster and more active. The camera angles do suck, but they're not horrible. I tend to find them mostly inoffensive. I have played around with a mod in the Steam version to give free camera control, but it has the unfortunate side effect of breaking cutscenes. In a game with as many cutscenes as Defiance has, it's basically unusable.

Controller support is finicky in the PC version. I think I went into this in the SR2 thread, but none of the PC versions recognize analog triggers (L/R2 and L/RT on a PS3/4 and 360/dogbox controller, respectively). The workaround I found for that is to map what you want on those buttons in-game to a keyboard input, then use a program like JoyToKey to map the keyboard inputs to your L/R triggers. It works surprisingly well. To use a PS4 controller, I think you'd need an XInput wrapper like X360ce, or to have specific DS4 controller drivers--there is a good set out there, but I don't presently have it installed and I'm not sure the name of it.

On the subject of the game, I find it interesting how differently Moebius comes across in this one compared to SR/SR2. Granted, you only see him through Raziel's eyes in those games, and this time when you meet him you're playing as Kain. I imagine he drops the smarmy nice guy pretense entirely when dealing with Kain because A) why bother at this point, and B) Kain sees through it and responds better to relative honesty. But beyond that, he's less... antagonistic than you'd expect this time around, and it's really quite difficult to tell whether he's working against you or not.

I also love that most of Kain's animations, voice clips, and what have you are directly calling back to Blood Omen. I started playing Defiance right after watching the BO LP and began to really pick up on that for the first time. The development team really didn't forget ANYTHING from the first game, and I find it endearing.

And they don't just do it for Blood Omen either; how many times did you go through that central courtyard in the Sarafan Stronghold in SR2? It looks a bit different due to fancier graphics in Defiance, but here we are again, now visiting it as Kain rather than Raziel. So good.

anilEhilated posted:

To mend my reputation (yeah, right) with the thread, I mentioned an LoK-themed power metal song in the last thread. Well, I found it. It's, uh, enthusiastic.
Uploaded it to tindeck because I can't find any mentions of the band still being around.

inscrutable horse posted:

I felt... inspired by that fight against those three statues.



No, I'm not proud.

anilEhilated posted:

I think it's safe to post this, just beware of spoilers in related videos: Turel's VA really gets into the role and it's great. First time I saw this and he did the "I must have BLOOD! YOURS!" bit, I veritably jumped in the chair.

e: You can definitely TK the gongs, that's how I beat him and I never had a controller.

Vicissitude posted:

And there we have it. The ONE time in the whole game that Kain smiles out of sheer joy, even if it's tinged with a bit of malice. All the times before now have been mostly malice or intimidation. This time, he's just happy

EDIT: I can only imagine Raziel would have the same satisfied smile in the spectral realm, were he capable of smiling at all

Zain posted:

nobody could see the squid. The corruption is basically twisting people. Kain wasn't really a good human to begin with, but was supposed to be. All the pillar guardians were supposed to be more or less good people that stood up for what their pillar represented.


Positive side I saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWM_Vqh8qAg

Raygereio posted:

Here's a neat detail that I can't believe I never noticed this before: Check out the Scion of Balance's pose in his mural and compare it to Kain's symbol.

Alexeythegreat fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2016 around 17:21

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Of course I would forget to put a tag when none of the mods are online.
drat.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

by R. Guyovich


Alexeythegreat posted:

Of course I would forget to put a tag when none of the mods are online.
drat.

I forgive you.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Oh gods finally.
I was getting terribly annoyed with BO2.

Cathode Raymond
Dec 30, 2015

My antenna is telling me that you're probably wrong about this.


Soiled Meat

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Oh gods finally.
I was getting terribly annoyed with BO2.

Which part didn't you like? The part where you have to flip a switch, then jog back a long way and flip another switch? Or the other part, where there's a switch, and you have to use your switch-flipping powers to flip it remotely before jogging back and flipping the original switch two more times?

Or was it that boss fight against that invincible boss that ran around the level at random, but you had to get him to run at a specific place?

Or was it the dumb character art?

Or was it the fact that it is long beyond all reason. Actually, I wonder how long it would be if Kain ran at a proper vampire pace instead of a modest human-speed jog.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Can't run and keep his dignity. He's walking around his future domain's city...canyons... sewers.

I'm gonna play along with this one, Defiance hasn't aged too badly.

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

anilEhilated posted:

Can't run and keep his dignity. He's walking around his future domain's city...canyons... sewers.

I'm gonna play along with this one, Defiance hasn't aged too badly.

...switches...

DukeofCA
Aug 17, 2011

I am shocked and appalled.

So I completely checked out of the BO2 thread. I just...I couldn't watch anymore. Not because Alexey makes bad LP's, but because it's BO2.

But, yay Defiance! We can talk about a game that's fun and good again.

Delta Green
Nov 2, 2012


Ah, Defiance. The last chapter.

The voice acting and script are absolutely excellent.

Gideon020
Apr 23, 2011


Woohoo! Alexey returns from doing that game about Norse mythology!

Crigit
Sep 6, 2011

I'll show you my naval if you show me yours.
Let's get naut'y.


DukeofCA posted:

So I completely checked out of the BO2 thread. I just...I couldn't watch anymore. Not because Alexey makes bad LP's, but because it's BO2.

But, yay Defiance! We can talk about a game that's fun and good again.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Crigit posted:

Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

Yeah, same he~ oh, wait....

JohnOfOrdo3
Nov 7, 2011

My other car is an asteroid


well compared to blood omen 2 this game is like a breath of fresh air. Good god the difference is night and day. It looks so... for lack of a better word, smooth. The movement seems to flow better, the combat is obviously miles above BO2 and I'm so very happy to have good writers back again. I'm really hoping this game lives up to what I'm seeing here.

Bachus
May 30, 2011


I went back to play this after the SR2 LP was done. I had forgotten how frustrating the drat camera angles are. Still, good times are ahead!

Male of the Century
Jan 7, 2004

PISH-POSH!

JohnOfOrdo3 posted:

well compared to blood omen 2 this game is like a breath of fresh air. Good god the difference is night and day. It looks so... for lack of a better word, smooth. The movement seems to flow better, the combat is obviously miles above BO2 and I'm so very happy to have good writers back again. I'm really hoping this game lives up to what I'm seeing here.

It's easily the most interesting, best written, and most fun game in the series. It's only 2 drawbacks are the camera is sometimes wonky, but it came from an era of fixed camera games, and eventually the combat starts to get a bit repetitive because all the best combat skills are learned very early on or in some cases right from the start.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all


Alexeythegreat posted:

Yeah, same he~ oh, wait....

I figure one of us was paying attention to that game.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



The combat is fine in my opinion, the thing that broke the camels back for me when I was young was having way too many puzzle dungeon intermissions. I played through most of it only to drop it at like the last one.

Llab
Dec 28, 2011

PEPSI FOR VG BABE


I'm another who's going play Defiance along with the LP. It's been at least 10 years, and I've been trying to get the PC version to work with a PS4 controller but I seem to be too dumb to get it all working nicely.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

I forgot how amazing this game's version of Ariel's Lament is.
e: Speaking of Cadaverous Laceration, you gotta show off the move list help menu at some point: the names of the combos are voice-acted and it's magical.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at Apr 19, 2016 around 09:36

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

anilEhilated posted:

I forgot how amazing this game's version of Ariel's Lament is.
e: Speaking of Cadaverous Laceration, you gotta show off the move list help menu at some point: the names of the combos are voice-acted and it's magical.

I will, but probably once I have more of these combos.

Tuxedo Ted
Apr 23, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Ok, so I watched the Blood Omen 2 thread and from the first video I was thinking "man this is way worse than I remember it being" and it took me way too drat long to realize I was thinking of this game instead. I never really played any of the Blood Soul Omen Reaver games, just half remembered watching a friend play them.

KieranWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...

Grimey Drawer

Ah, Defiance. Definitely the best game in the series, all around. They really managed to work out most of the flaws this time around; combat can still get fairly tedious, but you've got more variety and some nifty abilities to make up for it (impaling dudes on wall-mounted hooks or throwing them over cliffs is always entertaining). The more hacky-slashy combat may be hit or miss for some, but I find it more engaging than SR/SR2's if only because it's faster and more active. The camera angles do suck, but they're not horrible. I tend to find them mostly inoffensive. I have played around with a mod in the Steam version to give free camera control, but it has the unfortunate side effect of breaking cutscenes. In a game with as many cutscenes as Defiance has, it's basically unusable.

Controller support is finicky in the PC version. I think I went into this in the SR2 thread, but none of the PC versions recognize analog triggers (L/R2 and L/RT on a PS3/4 and 360/dogbox controller, respectively). The workaround I found for that is to map what you want on those buttons in-game to a keyboard input, then use a program like JoyToKey to map the keyboard inputs to your L/R triggers. It works surprisingly well. To use a PS4 controller, I think you'd need an XInput wrapper like X360ce, or to have specific DS4 controller drivers--there is a good set out there, but I don't presently have it installed and I'm not sure the name of it.

On the subject of the game, I find it interesting how differently Moebius comes across in this one compared to SR/SR2. Granted, you only see him through Raziel's eyes in those games, and this time when you meet him you're playing as Kain. I imagine he drops the smarmy nice guy pretense entirely when dealing with Kain because A) why bother at this point, and B) Kain sees through it and responds better to relative honesty. But beyond that, he's less... antagonistic than you'd expect this time around, and it's really quite difficult to tell whether he's working against you or not.

I also love that most of Kain's animations, voice clips, and what have you are directly calling back to Blood Omen. I started playing Defiance right after watching the BO LP and began to really pick up on that for the first time. The development team really didn't forget ANYTHING from the first game, and I find it endearing.

And they don't just do it for Blood Omen either; how many times did you go through that central courtyard in the Sarafan Stronghold in SR2? It looks a bit different due to fancier graphics in Defiance, but here we are again, now visiting it as Kain rather than Raziel. So good.

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Tuxedo Ted posted:

Ok, so I watched the Blood Omen 2 thread and from the first video I was thinking "man this is way worse than I remember it being" and it took me way too drat long to realize I was thinking of this game instead. I never really played any of the Blood Soul Omen Reaver games, just half remembered watching a friend play them.

To be fair, you may have as well played BO2 itselt, too. "I don't remember this being as bad" is a very common sentiment because of the astonishing forgettableness of the game

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer



By the way, I'm ramping up the game audio during cutscenes so that the overall audio balance remains the same throughout the entire video. Tell me if it's okay or I should ramp it up more/less.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


When I remember how awesome this series is I remember stuff from this game and Soul Reaver this most. BO2 is just so weirdly out there.

KieranWalker posted:

On the subject of the game, I find it interesting how differently Moebius comes across in this one compared to SR/SR2. Granted, you only see him through Raziel's eyes in those games, and this time when you meet him you're playing as Kain. I imagine he drops the smarmy nice guy pretense entirely when dealing with Kain because A) why bother at this point, and B) Kain sees through it and responds better to relative honesty. But beyond that, he's less... antagonistic than you'd expect this time around, and it's really quite difficult to tell whether he's working against you or not.

It also helps that Mobius, being the dude what knows time stuff, knows that Kain has killed him and so he doesn't have to play nice. They both know they're antagonistic to each other but that doesn't really stop them from trying to use each other for their own ends. Nosgoth is a world of Chessmasters and really, who would turn down another pawn on the board?

It's a really good example of smart antagonism. Just because they're enemies doesn't mean they have to hate each others guts (or let that control their actions.)

Esoteric Banana
Mar 29, 2010



While BO2 was kinda tedious, I always felt SR2 was the worst game of the series and it's the only one I quit playing out of boredom and frustration. This game felt amazing to play for me when it first came out, and even with the flaws it kept me engaged.

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner


The narration here weirds me out. It's all in past-tense, but it reacts as if events are taking place in the present. I only now noticed it and I find myself wondering if it's been like that the entire series and I never realized it.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Ironslave posted:

The narration here weirds me out. It's all in past-tense, but it reacts as if events are taking place in the present. I only now noticed it and I find myself wondering if it's been like that the entire series and I never realized it.

I believe it's been like that the entire series.
It reminds me actually, on the topic of narration - it's quite sparce in BO2; Raziel and Kain pretty much provide a running commentary through their games...while in BO2 Kain only really does such a thing during the vampire encounters - the rest is in explict dialogue.

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Pesky Splinter posted:

I believe it's been like that the entire series.
It reminds me actually, on the topic of narration - it's quite sparce in BO2; Raziel and Kain pretty much provide a running commentary through their games...while in BO2 Kain only really does such a thing during the vampire encounters - the rest is in explict dialogue.

The narration in the non-BO2 games is one of the best parts about the game.
I don't even have to explain anything in this LP, Kain and Raziel do everything for me

Speaking of BO2, I recorded more BO2 and I hate myself. I'm sick of this to the point where I'm on the verge of not bothering to clean up the audio.

Alexeythegreat fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2016 around 18:31

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


"There's some grim satisfaction in infuriating you" is a line I absolutely love. And there are still so many more to come.

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

Guy Fawkes
Aug 1, 2014

Lvl 62, +5 meadow defense

"Malek, the great Sarafan warrior. His sword and shield seemed to have gone astray"

Which sword and shield, by the way? Both as a living man and as an animated suit of armor, Malek only used a polearm.

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.

Well clearly, every knightly knight carried a sword & shield as part of the uniform even if they never used it!

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Something I would definitely change is the scale of the pillars. Sure they extend forever, But I would have them much, much thicker. Like each would be at least the thickness of a city block, to properly communicate their importance to Nosgoth.
I've always thought that while the LoK games had excellent writing, their delivery and visual design is lacking slightly. The latter I can greatly forgive because they started when they did, and thus had to work within severe restrictions, but delivery can change and improve over time, and the visual aesthetic has not aged that well, or rather is very telling of it's own age.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all


Every moment of Defiance at least the story is so amazing. I LOVE IT SO MUCH!

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

Cybernetic Crumb

I loved the "Vae Victis!" callback when you were comboing some Sarafan Warriors.

Delta Green
Nov 2, 2012


Defiance was made by the original team and they knew it was likely going to be the last Legacy Of Kain game.

Thus, they pulled out all the stops and made it AMAZING. The dialogue in particular is great, and the voice actors had genuine fun doing their takes, which they usually did with everyone involved in each dialogue in the same studio.

Which doesn't sound special, until you realize that the inverse is still far more common. Seriously, go look up the Outtakes for Defiance, they're great.

Oh, and they tied up all the loose ends in the story. I think only one or two plot points are left unresolved and its for good reasons.


Pesky Splinter posted:

I believe it's been like that the entire series.
It reminds me actually, on the topic of narration - it's quite sparce in BO2; Raziel and Kain pretty much provide a running commentary through their games...while in BO2 Kain only really does such a thing during the vampire encounters - the rest is in explict dialogue.

I believe that one of the games introduced itself as being excerpts of something referred to as "The Dark Chronicle" in-universe. Meaning that we're effectively going through a written account by Kain (and Raziel) of the events, presumably long after they are gone.

Otherwise, why the "Legacy" of Kain?

PSWII60
Jan 7, 2007

All the best octopodes shoot fire and ice.

If they did know this was the last game in the series then it is a proper sendoff I'd say. As much as I want more games in this series I'm ok with this being the final chapter. One of the few games I'd play repeatedly for the story alone. How often can you say you don't get sick of seeing cutscenes in a game. Now if only we can get Blood Omen 1 on Steam or GoG.

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Lunethex posted:

Well clearly, every knightly knight carried a sword & shield as part of the uniform even if they never used it!
Actually they did - a shield with the coat of arms painted on was a popular way to show who's who on a battlefield. Knights were minor nobility so they could (and had to) afford a full arsenal.

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