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Kemper Boyd posted:The one that says "so you actually want to play an SS member? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU" That was the first sidebar I thought of as well. The one that says "If you want to play SS you can, but don't even pretend that's what this book is about. Also: seek help." Ugh, terrible new page post. My apologies. OK, to try and give this post some more content, some Godlike waffle! Godlike's the first attempt at the ORE, and it really shows in places. It's a good idea (and a great setting), but the execution has issues - especially when superpowers get involved. For example, the 'Go First' power is just broken in the extreme in the original printing (though in the reprint they did tweak some things, including Go First). ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 19:27
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Kemper Boyd posted:The one that says "so you actually want to play an SS member? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU"
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Jul 19, 2016 19:33
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Halloween Jack posted:Whatever are you talking about? I don't have time for this. I've got to ask my sturmfuhrer why my cap's got a little skull on it. Are we pirates? Time for someone to link the obligatory Mitchell and Webb sketch!(If you don't know what I'm talking about, just google 'are we the baddies?') Also Jack - I was meaning to ask, are you covering Godlike from the first printing or the paperback reprint? I own both, so if you only have one or the other I may be able to chime in with differences.
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Jul 19, 2016 19:35
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Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJa7TAnR9SA
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Jul 19, 2016 19:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU If anything can distract people from talking about slightly dim pitch black acid lava pits it's Nazis, I guess.
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Jul 19, 2016 19:43
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ninjaiguana posted:Time for someone to link the obligatory Mitchell and Webb sketch!(If you don't know what I'm talking about, just google 'are we the baddies?') The revised PDF, which I think matches up with the softcover. I never really thought about the differences besides the cover...whoops?
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Jul 19, 2016 19:49
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Halloween Jack posted:The revised PDF, which I think matches up with the softcover. I never really thought about the differences besides the cover...whoops? There aren't big differences to be honest, the core systems are all the same. The primary thing I remember is that they changed the costing on some of the powers. Possibly some of the Extras and Flaws, too. Oh, and several of the foreign-language Talent names they had were corrected, as the originals either used terrible grammar or were plain nonsense. In fact, there's a bit of a round-up of the changes here: http://arcdream.com/home/2012/07/editors-commentary-godlike-pdf-and-paperback-edition/ ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 19:50
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This was some time back but I just wanted to say "jesus loving christ".
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Jul 19, 2016 21:46
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Josef bugman posted:This was some time back but I just wanted to say "jesus loving christ". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy It's a hosed up thing.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:59
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I'm trying to think of fictional characters who would be Beast pcs and it's like Zoom/Hunter Zolomon from the Flash and Mother Gothel from Tangled, just absolutely horrifying people.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:36
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Brick Top from Snatch except without the pig farm; he is the pig farm.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:48
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J. Walter Weatherman from Arrested Development, the only Beast character who actually buys into the "Teach lessons" justification wholeheartedly! Sadly his only power is to fake a disfiguring injury to traumatize children.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:49
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That's actually perfect because his "lessons" are "If you don't follow the rules SOMEONE WILL GET MAIMED OR KILLED OMG" which is basically my Mom when I wanted to walk home, alone, at night, in a small town where the most dangerous creature lurking in the night was an occasional skunk.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:05
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Kurieg posted:Stuff Alright, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around beast so correct me if I'm wrong. When someone becomes a beast their soul is eaten, or they're born that way, and for the sake of keeping things simple they have a dragon beast. So this thing is in the place of their soul, but isn't under their direct control. And it wanders around at night when they sleep. It can't really manifest in the physical world. It's kind of like if you gave a cat terrible terrible powers. They get a lair, but they can't really just pop in and chill, the dragon just kind of stays there when it's not tormenting random people. Heroes can go there physically, but most people end up going there in a dream. It's only in the lair that the dragon is really dragony and where it does most of the pointless torturing. I don't know, beast just seems kind of all over the place.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:02
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Stormbringer 5th Edition It was the early 2000s, everyone was doing it Okay, time to actually wrap this up! Strictly speaking, I have already covered the Stormbringer 5 core book. But, since I'm working off the Spanish edition, there's an extra appendix here. Elric d20, as it is called, is the rules portion of the Dragon Kings of Melniboné sourcebook for D&D 3E, way back when. As the game puts it in the back cover, "enjoy with both systems the boundless Multiverse of Michael Moorcock!" Alright then. Character classes! All the 3E basic classes are there, and most indicate a certain origin for the adventurer. Barbarians come from degenerated or undeveloped places like Dorel, Pikarayd, Oin and Yu; Druids and Rangers show in places where the Elemental Lords are worshiped; civilized nations make Fighters, Bards and Rogues; the great Churches of Law and Chaos pop out Clerics and Paladins, while Monks follow the path of Balance. Races, on the other hand, change in availability: elves and half-elves are replaced by Melniboneans and half-Melniboneans, the degenerated humans of Org are represented by half-orcs, and a faithful representation of Moorcock's tales excludes dwarves, halflings and gnomes. Not that you can't play with one of those, but they'll be very, very rare (perhaps literally the only representative of their kind across the whole of the Young Kingdoms). They may come from another plane, a far off land, be a remainder of Dharzi experiments or a new creature from the Chaos beyond the edge of the world. Melniboneans and half-Melniboneans have no level adjustment like other "bad elf" races, but still get neat tricks like Witch Sight (treated as a skill, always class skill for them) and bound demons. Myyrrhn characters can fly 50% of the time, and unwinged Myyrrhn move at 35 feet per round. Also no level adjustment!  For everyone else, there's nations. These are mostly the same as in the BRP section, but interestingly Allegiance stats are based on origin rather than just shoving three points into one at chargen. For instance, Argimiliar starts with Chaos 0, Balance 1d6 and Law 1d10, while Dharijor gets Chaos 2d8, Balance 1d4 and Law 0. Nations also get some cultural skills (always considered class skills) and stuff like the armor that any adventurer of a martial class gets. Some nations also get special chargen rules: Nadsokor PCs roll 3d6 down the line for stats, but the sum total of their stat points - 75 equals the number of extra skill points they get. Also, Monks can only be from Tanelorn, and adventurers can only join Tanelorn in-game and with GM permission. Which does mean you can't be a Monk at chargen - once initiated in Tanelorn, Monk becomes a PC's favored class. There's some dull Open Content stuff like feats for close formation fighting, setting a spear against a charge (did that really need a feat?) and the Myyrrhn dive attack with their special spears. A "new" class, the Sailor, is literally just the Expert NPC class with a sailing-themed skill list. The most interesting bit is Heroic Actions: a character that hits 0 hit points or less can make a Fortitude save with a penalty equal to their negative hit points against a DC of 15. If successful, they get a partial action, then lose a further 1d3 HP. It is really just meant for desperate actions. Allegiance is rated just like in the BRP rules. You can gain and lose points pledge your allegiance to one of the cosmic powers and undergo Apotheosis with a few rules changes (for instance, killing an elemental gives the elemental's hit dice in allegiance points). The funkiest bit is that Allegiance does not interact with D&D Alignment: it is perfectly kosher to have a Lawful Good Paladin PC in the cult of Arioch, or some Chaotic dickhead at the service of Donblas. It is necessary that both GM and players can set both apart, says the book, but seriously what? Magic! Wishes are gone, you gotta get in touch with a Lord. Communion is deity-specific: you need to be a believer, and the deity will only know about things it cares about. Consecrate can only be used by Church clerics, and if you keep using Summon Monster to get a bunch of expendable bags of XP you run the risk of having a Beast Lord or similar (Colossal-sized) to put the fear of itself into you, and after that you can never use Summon Monster to get that creature again. Demon summoning is based on XP and Wisdom rather than POW. Elementals follow their D&D Monster Manual rules, rather than adapting the ones used in the BRP version. All magic is Chaotic, but some spells are extra Chaotic (they get the Chaos descriptor) while some are more Lawful (Law descriptor) Some spells change according to the caster's Allegiance: a Lawful caster won't be summoning evil or chaotic beings anytime soon with Summon Monster and viceversa. There are no spells that interact with Good or Evil, only with Balance, Chaos or Law. The highest score in an Allegiance is used to determine whether a character is affected by, for instance, Detect Chaos. The translation dryly notes that the magic in the stories has a much different focus. Each of the Lords of Law and Chaos gets their own relevant spheres: Balo has both Law and Chaos, for extra fuckery. And that's about it, I guess. Stats for creatures and NPCs follow (Elric is a Fighter 8/Mage 20 character and Stormbringer deals 2d6+4d10 damage plus 1d100 CON drain, if you care) but this book is down and out. Thanks!
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Jul 20, 2016 02:40
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Beast is Otherkin Freddie Krueger the Game.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:45
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unzealous posted:Alright, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around beast so correct me if I'm wrong. When someone becomes a beast their soul is eaten, or they're born that way, and for the sake of keeping things simple they have a dragon beast. So this thing is in the place of their soul, but isn't under their direct control. And it wanders around at night when they sleep. It can't really manifest in the physical world. It's kind of like if you gave a cat terrible terrible powers. They get a lair, but they can't really just pop in and chill, the dragon just kind of stays there when it's not tormenting random people. Heroes can go there physically, but most people end up going there in a dream. It's only in the lair that the dragon is really dragony and where it does most of the pointless torturing. I don't know, beast just seems kind of all over the place. The Horror is kinda sorta supposed to be more you than your old soul was, and beasts do a thing where if they find a place that vaguely thematically resembles their lair, they can overlay their lair onto that place to temporarily merge them together, so that the sewer tunnels you're standing in are now simultaneously your cavernous treasure hoard. When they do that they get to merge with their dream self and actually be their dragon physically. The pointless torturing, meanwhile, is pretty much all the time, because a beast's stamina meter goes down gradually when they're not being horrible. Beasts do a few different kinds of pointless torturing. But yes, they made a Dragon: the Petty game where your default condition is only being a dragon symbolically, even when you're using the powers that are supposed to be gross physical expressions of dragoning.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:58
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unzealous posted:Alright, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around beast so correct me if I'm wrong. When someone becomes a beast their soul is eaten, or they're born that way, and for the sake of keeping things simple they have a dragon beast. So this thing is in the place of their soul, but isn't under their direct control. And it wanders around at night when they sleep. It can't really manifest in the physical world. It's kind of like if you gave a cat terrible terrible powers. They get a lair, but they can't really just pop in and chill, the dragon just kind of stays there when it's not tormenting random people. Heroes can go there physically, but most people end up going there in a dream. It's only in the lair that the dragon is really dragony and where it does most of the pointless torturing. I don't know, beast just seems kind of all over the place. Somewhere in the deep nightmares of humanity's collective unconscious your soul lives in it's lair. It's perfectly happy to stay there as long as you keep it fed. It only goes out roaming when you don't.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:09
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It's hard to call any one thing Beast does badly its biggest sin since there's so much competition, but certainly one of them is that even if you ignore all the poo poo that's been hashed out across this thread and the WoD thread re: abuse, mangled minority metaphors, and so forth, once you lay the core concept of the game bare it's completely loving dull. None of this stuff about the collective unconscious, teaching lessons, or your ambulatory soul is in any way interesting or engaging, not even in a power fantasy sense because everything's all symbolic and metaphorical instead of literally getting to be a cool mythological monster like almost every other World of Darkness game.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:17
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Kurieg posted:Somewhere in the deep nightmares of humanity's collective unconscious your soul lives in it's lair. It's perfectly happy to stay there as long as you keep it fed. It only goes out roaming when you don't. It must be that time of the month, because I keep reading this as a bad metaphor for wandering-womb hysteria.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:26
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Kurieg posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU I like that bit of Beast, because I've always had a soft spot for the idea of lair-building games, like Dungeon Keeper or Tecmo's Deception or that weird Japanese one I read about on HG101. Take out the rest of Beast and spin it off as a way to create boss lairs for other splats or have it so Beasts can only kill indirectly by setting and scaring people into traps and you might have yourself a fun little game. Kai Tave posted:It's hard to call any one thing Beast does badly its biggest sin since there's so much competition, but certainly one of them is that even if you ignore all the poo poo that's been hashed out across this thread and the WoD thread re: abuse, mangled minority metaphors, and so forth, once you lay the core concept of the game bare it's completely loving dull. None of this stuff about the collective unconscious, teaching lessons, or your ambulatory soul is in any way interesting or engaging, not even in a power fantasy sense because everything's all symbolic and metaphorical instead of literally getting to be a cool mythological monster like almost every other World of Darkness game. Wait why are you drawing a distinction between 'symbolic', 'metaphorical' and 'literal', especially in a horror game? They should be able to effect each other. At least that's how I saw oMage and Changeling. Everything in the world operates on all those levels simultaneously. I mean turning the 'mundane' world into a videogame level is SO COOL, and it's why I do urban exploration. Overlaying 'fantastic' reality onto 'mundane' reality is an AWESOME mechanic and the best way to live life/make a zillion dollars getting people to catch Pokemon. OTOH if you want to be uncharitable you can play it like that Supernatural episode where the 'dragon' was a guy with glowing eyes who lived in a sewer. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 03:40
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Count Chocula posted:OTOH if you want to be uncharitable you can play it like that Supernatural episode where the 'dragon' was a guy with glowing eyes who lived in a sewer. It's this.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:46
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Kai Tave posted:It's hard to call any one thing Beast does badly its biggest sin since there's so much competition, but certainly one of them is that even if you ignore all the poo poo that's been hashed out across this thread and the WoD thread re: abuse, mangled minority metaphors, and so forth, once you lay the core concept of the game bare it's completely loving dull. None of this stuff about the collective unconscious, teaching lessons, or your ambulatory soul is in any way interesting or engaging, not even in a power fantasy sense because everything's all symbolic and metaphorical instead of literally getting to be a cool mythological monster like almost every other World of Darkness game. Also, what's the story, even? You sit around and stomp on people and win forever. Good job. Fun game.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:47
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Count Chocula posted:I like that bit of Beast, because I've always had a soft spot for the idea of lair-building games, like Dungeon Keeper or Tecmo's Deception or that weird Japanese one I read about on HG101. Take out the rest of Beast and spin it off as a way to create boss lairs for other splats or have it so Beasts can only kill indirectly by setting and scaring people into traps and you might have yourself a fun little game. I won't lie, the idea of Lair on its own is rad. It's gameable and super fun to turn your power stat into a simple minigame of Build-a-Boss-Level. The execution has some glaring flaws (the ability to use an everpresent condition like Low Light to summon another part of your lair so that you can pick something horrific like air made of death, the toxic environment lair trait that invites you to just arbitrarily assign a damage rating to how toxic your lair is, y'know, whatever, no guidelines or tradeoffs), but it's still a solid idea that's wasted on Beast.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:51
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unzealous posted:Alright, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around beast so correct me if I'm wrong. When someone becomes a beast their soul is eaten, or they're born that way, and for the sake of keeping things simple they have a dragon beast. So this thing is in the place of their soul, but isn't under their direct control. And it wanders around at night when they sleep. It can't really manifest in the physical world. It's kind of like if you gave a cat terrible terrible powers. They get a lair, but they can't really just pop in and chill, the dragon just kind of stays there when it's not tormenting random people. Heroes can go there physically, but most people end up going there in a dream. It's only in the lair that the dragon is really dragony and where it does most of the pointless torturing. I don't know, beast just seems kind of all over the place. Yeah, when I get past the layer of revulsion and try to look at the mechanics and how it would play, Beast seems... Really messy. There's a lot of things that are sometimes connected and sometimes not and don't always work together or have the same themes or feels. Combined with the utter lack of goals beyond feeding that the game presents for you, the whole thing just sort of exists without any real indicator or feel for what you're supposed to actually do, beyond the mandatory torment and torture of the inferior. Kai Tave posted:It's hard to call any one thing Beast does badly its biggest sin since there's so much competition, but certainly one of them is that even if you ignore all the poo poo that's been hashed out across this thread and the WoD thread re: abuse, mangled minority metaphors, and so forth, once you lay the core concept of the game bare it's completely loving dull. None of this stuff about the collective unconscious, teaching lessons, or your ambulatory soul is in any way interesting or engaging, not even in a power fantasy sense because everything's all symbolic and metaphorical instead of literally getting to be a cool mythological monster like almost every other World of Darkness game. Personally I'd put the abuse stuff as the biggest, but, yeah. Beasts are just so uninteresting at the core of things. They're just people, who have "special souls". It's a boring version of Sin-Eaters, or that one Werewolf enemy thing that every wolf should probably assume Beasts are once they learn more about them. It's kind of odd really, how despite how much the book wants you to love the Beasts and think they're cool and all, it doesn't so much to actually make them cool or let them do cool things. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 03:52
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On the other hand, Hunter: the Vigil has detailed rules for creating safehouses and also isn't a dumpster fire of a game.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:52
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Bieeardo posted:It must be that time of the month, because I keep reading this as a bad metaphor for wandering-womb hysteria. I wouldn't put it past Beast to go there. Other examples I could think of a Beast is again, some pretty horrific examples: Carrie's Mother - given her religious obsession and taboo against anything remotely sexual fits the 'punishment for violating taboos'. And the lair stuff feels wholly unneeded and kind of just turns a beast PC into what...? It's barely connected at all.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:57
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Robindaybird posted:Other examples I could think of a Beast is again, some pretty horrific examples: Carrie's Mother - given her religious obsession and taboo against anything remotely sexual fits the 'punishment for violating taboos'. NO MORE WIRE HANGERS! YOU DESERVE THIS!
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Jul 20, 2016 04:02
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Alright, I felt like I was missing something for the longest time because I kept expecting an update to feature "Okay, at this point you can take this ability that lets you breathe fire because you're a dragon or you turn into a giant tentacle spider or what have you." So much of what the horror is seems disconnected from the player. I mean to what I said before it's like a game where you're just a normal person responsible for an rear end in a top hat cat with superpowers and if you don't feed it blood and suffering it runs outside and tortures people.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:20
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unzealous posted:Alright, I felt like I was missing something for the longest time because I kept expecting an update to feature "Okay, at this point you can take this ability that lets you breathe fire because you're a dragon or you turn into a giant tentacle spider or what have you." So much of what the horror is seems disconnected from the player. I mean to what I said before it's like a game where you're just a normal person responsible for an rear end in a top hat cat with superpowers and if you don't feed it blood and suffering it runs outside and tortures people. That sounds more like Pokemon: The Training, to be honest.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:22
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Kurieg posted:NO MORE WIRE HANGERS! YOU DESERVE THIS!
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Jul 20, 2016 04:25
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I Am Just a Box posted:I won't lie, the idea of Lair on its own is rad. It's gameable and super fun to turn your power stat into a simple minigame of Build-a-Boss-Level. The execution has some glaring flaws (the ability to use an everpresent condition like Low Light to summon another part of your lair so that you can pick something horrific like air made of death, the toxic environment lair trait that invites you to just arbitrarily assign a damage rating to how toxic your lair is, y'know, whatever, no guidelines or tradeoffs), but it's still a solid idea that's wasted on Beast. Lair was flat out one of the primary reasons, if not the primary reason, I spent a lot of time trying to "fix" Beast. I think the concept has a ton of potential, and honestly could work just fine if the only thing changed was invocation rules.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:42
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NGDBSS posted:Wait, wasn't the wire hanger sequence from Mommie Dearest? Regardless, it still fits the theme of the "outraged" abuser that Beast unintentionally emphasizes. Probably best to just let Beast hang itself with its own rope.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:43
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Davin Valkri posted:That sounds more like Pokemon: The Training, to be honest. A review of Pokethulhu might get this thread some more hits, but I think it's been done? That was a fun little game. Mommie Dearest is apparently part of the best named horror subgenre: PSYCHO-BIDDY! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-biddy Maybe they should put Lairs and Beasts into Exalted. Videogame heroes need proper Bosses to fight. Or just write a game where you play videogame bosses, but I think that's already a board game. Actually, maybe just give every other splat the Lair rules. Vampires get their castles or crypts or office buildings, Werewolves get a patch of forests, Changelings get the Hedge, and Mages get whatever the gently caress they want. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 05:43
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unzealous posted:Alright, I felt like I was missing something for the longest time because I kept expecting an update to feature "Okay, at this point you can take this ability that lets you breathe fire because you're a dragon or you turn into a giant tentacle spider or what have you." So much of what the horror is seems disconnected from the player. I mean to what I said before it's like a game where you're just a normal person responsible for an rear end in a top hat cat with superpowers and if you don't feed it blood and suffering it runs outside and tortures people. That is basically the next part of chapter 2, except it's not so much "you can breathe fire because you're a dragon" it's "You can select X powers and 1 of them must be of the subtype of your Horror and Dragon breath is one of those things", there isn't any real actual shapeshifting outside of merging in your lair or the Material World failure state.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:58
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Count Chocula posted:Or just write a game where you play videogame bosses, but I think that's already a board game. Appropriate enough to the discussion, it's also a bad one.
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Jul 20, 2016 06:16
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I feel like they were trying to go for a sort of " you play Stephen King's "It", your Lair is like something out of Clive Barker psycho-horror." Even the Heroes are portrayed like Every Bully from an 80's Stephen King novel. But if they remind me of anything, Beasts remind me more of Lovecraft Mythos cultists. The disconnect from your character from the actual monster-soul makes it feel like you just some dub schmuck worshipping a horrible Thing From Beyond and doing horrible poo poo to power your black magic. And the Investigators are cast as bigots trying to "oppress your religious freedom". You're not really a Beast so much as a Toady. Kai Tave posted:Appropriate enough to the discussion, it's also a bad one. Do you mean Boss Monster? I always thought it was pretty fun. 
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Jul 20, 2016 06:16
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At least some squid cultists would be trying to accomplish something. Marrying fish people, feeding livestock to the horrible invisible fruit of their unnatural matings, swapping minds with chubby and effete heirs, some loving thing that they'd try to accomplish other than just bullying people. I don't recall the powers section but it seems like Beast was trying hard to cop out of actually having sick-rear end supernatural powers. And I think that's another strike against it, because when the rubber hits the road, if you don't have sick supernatural powers on some level, what the gently caress is the point of it all?
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Jul 20, 2016 07:04
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Beasts actually have some pretty strong powers, I mean they already have 'Turn off the lights, summon magical murder lair' for free. Some of the Atavisms can be used to turn you into a combat monster, and some of the Nightmares are just too damned powerful for their own good. Pretty much their only limiting factor is that it's not super easy for them to heal quickly since they need to go to their lair to do so and that means you either need to be someplace similar to one of your chambers, or literally in the place where you made your chamber, and be able to spend a willpower point, and succeed on the dice roll. Which is kind of the problem. You've got all sorts of cool poo poo, but they're pulling you in different directions and forcing you to make dumb decisions to maximize your chances of success. Beast really feels like bits and pieces of two or three games wrapped together around a very problematic core.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:19
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I had to apologize to a friend because when Beast came up in discussion they said 'Oh, It's poo poo' And having just read about the Lair and the idea of building your own Boss Realm of murder and horror, I told them "Well, It has some good ideas, at least" And much later I had to come back and say 'Okay, I still think Lairs are cool, but there are SO many terrible ideas and flaws with this game, you where right, it is pretty much poo poo, and I am sorry for doubting you."
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