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Meldonox posted:I would be 100% behind a huge dry lore encyclopedia. I don't want a lovely novelization, I want a textbook. Goddamn I would be all over that. That's something I've considered now and then, looking at some projects in the Souls community. If any other people would be interested in working on it too (because wow that would be a big endeavor) it could be a group fan effort? Big Google Docs thing, probably. Edit: Roland Jones, I get where you're coming from there. Yeah, Fatalis isn't that hard of a monster to beat, so the dissonance is clear there. After removing all the cheap stuff they had in Unite, like being nearly impenetrable all over for the last 30% of the fight, they're not quite as catastrophic. I wonder, too, if the MH world would have gods who were the monsters they see on a daily basis, like some form of animism or something. They certainly seem to revere a lot of the monsters, particularly elder dragons, and Akantor and Ukanlos are even called the Black God and the White God. Squidtentacle fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 02:33
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Alright, I'll just keep at the quests. Might as well complete them all.
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Aug 1, 2016 02:38
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Squidtentacle posted:Goddamn I would be all over that. That's something I've considered now and then, looking at some projects in the Souls community. Amatsu, while likely not worshiped as a god itself, seems to have some divine connections folklore-wise, as I mentioned in that one post a while back, at least. Its item descriptions also mention weather gods and I think a sun god. Or maybe that one was an ancient shard weapon. Either way, there are apparently gods, plural, including weather and sun ones, and at least some were attacked and possibly killed by the "Knight of Alatrea" at some point. (Alatreon's one of the few things on its level, so to speak, that isn't implied to be divine in some manner, on that tangent. Amatsu, Ceadeus, and others religious references, Dalamadur is tied to a creation myth, and so on, but Alatreon's item descriptions, in the few instances the gods are mentioned, reference trying to kill them, which is the only time deicide comes up in the game as far as I'm aware.) I'd totally be up for contributing to some big geeky lore thing, on that topic, meanwhile. Edit: On a tangent about elder dragons, I just realized that they're not all as special as they seem. Like, Fatalis and Amatsu and Alatreon and all that are mysterious, nigh-mythical beings, sure, and things like Yama Tsukami are just weird, but on the other hand Jhen Mohran migrations or whatever were just a fact of life for Loc Lac, to the point that hunters having to go out and repel them (and/or try to profit off them by mining them and whatnot) so they didn't go through the city was a regular part of life there. I don't think Kirin is super-special either, even if it's rarer than the average monster. It's kind of interesting to think about, since "elder dragon" tends to get treated like some rare, special thing. Pollyanna posted:Alright, I'll just keep at the quests. Might as well complete them all. If you want a list of the key quests, go here. Just do the ones marked "Key Quest" to advance; you can ignore everything else if you want, though the various villager requests have nice rewards so I recommend doing them too at least. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 02:48
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Is it ever touched on whether there are places that aren't in constant danger of being overrun? People all seem pretty comfortable with the idea of having a respected and freely housed village hunter, and I guess with the exception of Port Tanzia I've always gotten the impression that these places are all on one frontier or another. I can't help but wonder what the main population centers, or the seat of contemporary Monster Hunter civilization, could possibly look like.
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Aug 1, 2016 03:29
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Meldonox posted:Is it ever touched on whether there are places that aren't in constant danger of being overrun? People all seem pretty comfortable with the idea of having a respected and freely housed village hunter, and I guess with the exception of Port Tanzia I've always gotten the impression that these places are all on one frontier or another. I can't help but wonder what the main population centers, or the seat of contemporary Monster Hunter civilization, could possibly look like. Let's see. Yukumo was near-ish to where Amatsu decided it was going to live, though that was a relatively recent thing. Moga was actually pretty safe until Ceadeus moved in too, I think. Maybe; a lot of poo poo shows up in the Moga Woods as the game goes on, but that's implied to be recent. Bherna doesn't seem to have that many problems monster-wise, I think; Nakarkos did move in to the Frontier but it's not near the village itself or anything. I think most of the 4U places were fine too, other than Cathar, and of course Dundorma because Dundorma is cursed or something and everything wants to destroy it. (Edit: Wait no Harth had some monster-related problems too, so I'm probably forgetting things for the other places as well.) Loc Lac of course was built on a Jhen migration path or something like I mentioned in the last post so it's in frequent danger. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 03:44
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So a couple things re: lorechat. Keep in mind Monster Hunter is not Dark Souls and hasn't historically had that same connection between item descriptions and concrete lore. Item descriptions tend to run the gamut from being concrete and factual to tongue-in-cheek and humorous to allegorical to mythological. It's very hard to assign any definite history or event to them that isn't completely speculative. Additionally, the world of Monster Hunter has always been presented as a fundamentally natural one. The seemingly improbable powers of the monsters tend to all have rational explanations, such as Zinogre's electricity being generated by the swarms of Thunderbugs that surround it. The elder dragons are only supernatural inasmuch as their abilities are not fully understood, due to how rare they are and how catastrophic their power is. As for Fatalis, Monster Hunter began as a relatively European fantasy style setting. Kokoto was a dumpy little peasant village while Minegard Town was a fortified castle. MH1 also had much more of a "survival" feel to it, using the resources of the world and the beasts that inhabited it to cobble together gear and equipment. Everything you wore or used, you went out and gathered or hunted the pieces for. This can be seen in the designs of many of the early MH weapons and armor, which is very clearly rooted in the monster it came from, as opposed to equipment in subsequent games, which is often designed more to invoke the monster rather than look literally created from actual pieces of it. To put it another way, the world of Monster Hunter has become more fanciful and stylized as the series has progressed. Fatalis is a relic of that first game. Up until you fight Fatalis in MH1, everything is completely rationally explainable. Rathian has a poisonous stinger in her tail. Rathalos generates fire from a gland. Diablos uses its powerful claws and armored frame to burrow through the sand. Lao Shan Lung is really loving big but that's about it. The designs were also much more reminiscent of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures, rather than mythological ones. Then Fatalis shows up, heralded as the ultimate badass. And there he is, a straight up European style dragon who is doing unexplainable poo poo like summoning meteors from the sky and who has apparently laid waste to a kingdom. It was a pretty powerful culmination to the game, it really made you feel like "whoa, there is some poo poo going on here I just do not understand". He also fit right into the first games more European aesthetic. Finally, he was cool because the lore surrounding Fatalis is what first hinted at a lot of the backstory we now know, about the Wyverians and the war between humanoid civilization and the elder dragons. The reason that Fatalis is still portrayed as this "ultimate badass" also has a lot to do with how the games have progressed. In the first two generations, monsters just kept the same settings and item descriptions. So despite the addition of a ton of other monsters up through MHFU, Fatalis was still hanging out in Castle Schrade and still described as some kind of unknowable natural disaster despite having been around for like 5 games now and having gained two new variations. At least when he showed up in 4 he had switched things up a bit! Monster Hunter has always been an incredibly self-referential series as well. In many ways new MH releases are more akin to content patches for an MMO rather than what we traditionally think of as sequels to a game series.
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Aug 1, 2016 03:50
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Triarii posted:Speaking of rapid followup attacks, how the hell is hyper Zinogre so much more awesome/terrifying than every other hyper monster in the game? Hyper Goku-wolf: The MonHun Experience. E: Re: Dragon stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed everything about Gogmazios from 4U. I wasn't expecting what all it turned out to be, and I hope to see more about it later on. Also, I want more sleep weapons. PathAsc fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 04:20
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Actually Dundorma is under constant threat from monsters because it was built dead-center in the migration paths of several large monsters. They mostly found this out after the fact. So it's kind of "cursed" but there's a natural explanation for why there's that consensus for it, and still it's the head area for dragon research and nobody wants to leave it because it's too important.AttackBacon posted:So a couple things re: lorechat. Keep in mind Monster Hunter is not Dark Souls and hasn't historically had that same connection between item descriptions and concrete lore. Item descriptions tend to run the gamut from being concrete and factual to tongue-in-cheek and humorous to allegorical to mythological. It's very hard to assign any definite history or event to them that isn't completely speculative. Additionally, the world of Monster Hunter has always been presented as a fundamentally natural one. The seemingly improbable powers of the monsters tend to all have rational explanations, such as Zinogre's electricity being generated by the swarms of Thunderbugs that surround it. The elder dragons are only supernatural inasmuch as their abilities are not fully understood, due to how rare they are and how catastrophic their power is. Clipping for particularly good points. It's definitely true that not all descriptions for things can be taken at face-value, especially considering the game's tone. It's not really a serious series by any means, and it's become less and less so over time anyway. At the same time, though, there's so little direct world-building that it feels like the most we have to go on outside of conversations of exposition, you know? For instance, I think it's fair to accept it when Kirin's armor says it's the garb of priestesses of a mountain tribe. At the same time, you'd want to take weapons that say they clove a mountain in half with a grain of salt; maybe there's a legend about that happening, but who can say for sure? Still, this is the series where dragons manipulate the weather and there's a gigantic sword in a frozen cave that regenerates whatever's chipped off of it, so eeeeeh. It's really hard to say, especially when we don't have much to go on at all. I think it's very important to consider that last point, too. Having started with MH1, every subsequent game feels like it follows relatively closely in time to the previous one. The events of each prior game are clearly referenced as being in the past, and we can see technological advancements being made like when gunlances or switch axes or charge blades came about, but whenever we go back to people or places from earlier games, it feels like everything that happened with them was the nebulously recent past, and very little is actually changed. And even then, some things may not even be canon, both of which would explain stuff like the Fatalises still being these mysterious and highly-feared beings, even though the player is going "guys I've beat this thing up a hundred times, come on". As far as nerdy lore documents go, I can probably get that started when I get back from this trip in a couple of days, if there's sufficient interest. We'd probably want to first work out what kind of format it should follow and how things should be presented, but that can be addressed in the actual document itself.
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Aug 1, 2016 04:51
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Yo gently caress Shogun Centaur. That is all.
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Aug 1, 2016 04:55
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AttackBacon posted:stuff There are some pretty good points here; while I knew the thing about the MH world being mostly natural and mentioned it in regards to the theory about ghost-Fatalis (there's even a natural explanation of how Yama Tsumaki, the weirdest thing around, flies and stuff), I have not played this series since the beginning. While I tried emulating one of the earlier games (one of the ones where you used the right analog stick to attack, I think) on my laptop in college and gave up really quickly, my real start with the series was Tri. My first experience with Fatalis was reading about it, and to me, starting in the third generation, it was basically an Alatreon-type monster but with a lot more hype. And in a way that is what it is; Fatalis and Alatreon are both secret ultimate boss dragons that have unfathomable power, but whereas Alatreon puts a twist on it, Fatalis plays it completely straight. But, in the context of the above post, that makes sense, and I have more appreciation for it after reading that; Fatalis's problem is basically that the series moved on, so while in the first game it was the Elder Dragon (even though it wasn't the only Elder Dragon) and a cool, strange thing, with so much more to the series now its old lore is really out of place because it is far from unique. So to people who were with the series from earlier it's still special and means something, but to me, arriving later, my reaction is, "...But it's just a dragon." On a tangent, Squidtentacle mentioning Fatalis's armor descriptions talking about corrupting the wearer and me looking up the Black (i.e. Fatalis, it uses the same models and everything) armor and weapon stats for Gen got me curious, so I looked up their descriptions on Kiranico, and it lead to me realizing that, as the Jaggi were meant to replace Velociprey and Great Jaggi Velocidrome and so on, Alatreon is the third generation's replacement Fatalis. Which is incredibly obvious in retrospect, but wow, their item descriptions are basically the same; both armor sets emphasize their extreme power, corrupting the wearer, and being really dark, and their weapons, well: Black Rod posted:An Insect Glaive infused with a dark power. It eventually overcomes its wielder, staining their soul with evil. / The Black Rod's final iteration. It possesses even more of the sinister force that eats away at one's soul. Alatreon Dragonspire posted:An Alatreon Insect Glaive that gives off a faint gleam as it toys with its opponents in battle. / The Alatreon Dragonspire's final form. It eats away at the soul and lures it into the dark abyss. They're really just the same. (But even if it's a replacement Fatalis I still love Alatreon.) Anyway, this whole conversation has me appreciating Fatalis more; it's still not my favorite but I can see why other people like it and its place in the series and all that; it's actually pretty neat in context, even if it could use a bit of a lore update. I just hope they don't do a 4U again and make the Fatalis stuff always the best. They actually refrained this time; the Black armor is awesome but specific in its use, and the weapons have good raw and dragon but only green sharpness without skills and no slots, so it's all good without obsoleting the competition. PathAsc posted:Hyper Goku-wolf: The MonHun Experience. Gog's another one I love for weirdness and design, and I too hope it returns in the future. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 05:10
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Bananasaurus Rex posted:Yo gently caress Shogun Centaur. 
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Aug 1, 2016 05:13
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Squidtentacle posted:I keep hearing that Gammoth is the easiest and least popular. Maybe with aerial she's easier, but with adept it's so hard to see what she's doing and time it accurately. Why would you fight Gammoth as anything but Aerial though?  I've fought Gammoth several dozen times now to get all the armor and weapons, and Aerial makes such short work of the poor monster that it's silly. Just keep jumping up those massive legs and you won't get hit a single time. Trying to fight Gammoth "fair" probably sucks though, I'll give you that.
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Aug 1, 2016 05:17
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Love how every room in HR 6 is just full set Rathalos heh
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Aug 1, 2016 05:18
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Squidtentacle posted:As far as nerdy lore documents go, I can probably get that started when I get back from this trip in a couple of days, if there's sufficient interest. We'd probably want to first work out what kind of format it should follow and how things should be presented, but that can be addressed in the actual document itself. I for one would be thrilled to read something like this 
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Aug 1, 2016 05:57
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Rascyc posted:Love how every room in HR 6 is just full set Rathalos heh or glavenus (tbf glavenus armor is awesome in HR)
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Aug 1, 2016 06:55
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Bananasaurus Rex posted:Yo gently caress Shogun Centaur. 
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Aug 1, 2016 07:16
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My weekend project was to make the furious rajang gunlance. Final thoughts: Furious Rajang can go to hell. He's fast, his hitbox extends six feet past his shoulders, and he leads his goddamn shots with his mouth laser. Plus you have to break both his horns to get an 80% shot at a horn drop. What a prick.
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Aug 1, 2016 08:08
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Skippy Granola posted:My weekend project was to make the furious rajang gunlance. Best advice for fighting Rajang is "stay under his rear legs at all times." Best advice if you need to stand in front of him to break his horns is "I'm so sorry." Pitfall traps help a bit. They only work on him when he's enraged but they last longer than against most monsters.
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Aug 1, 2016 08:30
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Triarii posted:I'm using the Silverwind set with striker switch axe (either the Hellblade Glavenus one or the hyper Seregios one if I want some slots) and once I get the energy charge + demon riot combo going, I can often flinch-lock a monster just by hitting it in the head repeatedly. Try that weapon and hunting style with the astral (nakarkos) set. Trump Card turns demon riot into a killing machine.
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Aug 1, 2016 08:51
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The worst part of no more water combat is we will never see caedus again Or gobul
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Aug 1, 2016 09:39
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A sacrifice I'm willing to make, frankly.
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Aug 1, 2016 11:46
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I didn't mind water combat at all  but I know it's almost universally hated.
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Aug 1, 2016 12:01
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PathAsc posted:I didn't mind water combat at all I really want water combat to come back and it drastically improved some monsters who somehow stuck around. Royal Ludroth is really stupid without water. Also Gobul > Nibbelsnarf
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Aug 1, 2016 13:15
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Are Nakarkos and Yama Tsukami meant to be in the same sort of family?
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Aug 1, 2016 13:32
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Yama's a giant sky octopus, Nakarkos is a bone squid.
Ignimbrite fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 13:58
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Roland Jones posted:While I tried emulating one of the earlier games (one of the ones where you used the right analog stick to attack, I think) on my laptop in college and gave up really quickly, my real start with the series was Tri. My first experience with Fatalis was reading about it, and to me, starting in the third generation, it was basically an Alatreon-type monster but with a lot more hype. Yeah, for my part I keep forgetting not everyone interested in the series lore has had the same kind of longevity with the series I have, so I definitely could have given some more context there. I'm glad you got some better context for Fatalis, though, because I really feel like all of the monsters presented in the main series this far are very much valid and important to the world. Even plenty from Frontier, where Lavasioth and Hypnocatrice came from. Calaveron posted:Are Nakarkos and Yama Tsukami meant to be in the same sort of family? Not quite? While Nakarkos is a cephalopod, looking at Yama's anatomy he looks more like a dragon of some kind. He doesn't have tentacles, he has four boneless legs and two whiskers. He's got a full set of crushing teeth and a tongue. He even has a little tail. It's more like a dragon got all flabby and bloated, then it's limbs atrophied since it had no reason to use them anymore when it floats all the time. I never thought of him as a real cephalopod. That said, though, the elder dragon classification is also known as "guys what is this, holy poo poo, I don't even have anything to compare this to  ", so they're classed similarly anyway.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:03
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Kashuno posted:I really want water combat to come back and it drastically improved some monsters who somehow stuck around. Royal Ludroth is really stupid without water. Also Gobul > Nibbelsnarf I do agree Ludroth is a chump without water combat. I thought Lagi would be the same, since he was a chump on land in Tri, but they gave him some nice moves. Hes like a Ivory Abyssal hybrid. They should have given Ludroth something to spice him up.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:58
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Yama Tsukami is one of the strangest things in the series, matching or even exceeding Gogmazios and Nakarkos in weirdness. As described above, it has so many bizarre features, and its supposed feeding habits are to just devour entire sections of the landscape and anything living inside of them. I don't think it's connected to any other monster (not counting the variant-ish thing from Frontier), even the other elder dragons we've seen; it's like Gog in that it's some anomalous thing whose presence is almost completely inexplicable.Squidtentacle posted:Yeah, for my part I keep forgetting not everyone interested in the series lore has had the same kind of longevity with the series I have, so I definitely could have given some more context there. I'm glad you got some better context for Fatalis, though, because I really feel like all of the monsters presented in the main series this far are very much valid and important to the world. Even plenty from Frontier, where Lavasioth and Hypnocatrice came from. Most of the Frontier designs I've seen (or at least the elder dragons from it I've looked at) haven't impressed me, but I love Lavasioth. Coelacanths are neat, so seeing this giant, lava-dwelling coelacanth monster with legs was amazing. Meanwhile, thinking about how Alatreon is to Fatalis as the Great Jaggi is to Velocidrome and such is actually pretty interesting, and the differences between them in both lore and gameplay show how the series has developed between generations one and three. I didn't get to experience it personally but I hear that old Fatalis was frustrating (understandable for something that arrived in the same game as Lao-Shan Lung), with its variants being even worse and White Fatalis even having OHKO attacks, while Alatreon is a more modern take on the "toughest battle in the game superboss" and, while still being really hard and never letting up, doesn't ever get "unfair". The elemental thing, besides being a neat lore bit, is also a clever battle mechanic, making there no "perfect" armor for fighting it, resistance-wise, and gives it shifting weaknesses and such as well. Though actually, thinking about it, Fatalis is treated a bit less "special" nowadays too; towards the end of 4U's bonus village quests, someone actually hatches a Crimson Fatalis. Just, some loser finds a weird egg, it hatches, and a Fatalis comes out (and somehow grows to adulthood nearly immediately) and starts loving things up. It's kind of crazy, really, but at the same time I kind of like it. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 15:57
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I don't like adept and I hope they take it out next game I play primarily ranged weapons and it's really god drat cheap to have a free reload/charge + bonus damage + massive dodge window. The other options don't even come close. This means instead of playing bow like Street Fighter where you're setting up dodges and wiggling around to keep consistent spacing, you're rolling into the monster and coming out the other end with a bow full of hurt. It's fun, it's really really good, but I can't help but feel it really doesn't feel like the MH I want to play. It's a high risk high reward playstyle but if you aren't using it you're gimping yourself massively because the other options are worthless. I won't even get into siege mode adept dodging, that is the enemy to everything that made HBG fun/difficult.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:08
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Mortimer posted:I don't like adept and I hope they take it out next game This game is fun as heck but IMO they've overpowered hunters relative to monsters in general. So many boosts to what players can do and so many more opportunities for big attacks and defensive fallback options with nothing given to the monsters to compensate. Curious to see how/if they address it
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Aug 1, 2016 16:11
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Naw just certain styles on certain weapons. Adept on ranged weapons is a different beast compared to adept on most melee weapons. The little run back you get on most of the adept styles isn't very good because you can easily get slapped out of them on a lot of the later monsters. The exception is dual blade adept which is definitely extremely powerful with its invincibility but it has opened the weapon up to a lot of newcomers it seems. Then you have adept hammer which is just unique and doesn't feel overpowered at all. There's certainly a mess of balancing to do if they want to keep styles and I hope they do, but I don't think it's that bad.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:20
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Space Hamlet posted:This game is fun as heck but IMO they've overpowered hunters relative to monsters in general. So many boosts to what players can do and so many more opportunities for big attacks and defensive fallback options with nothing given to the monsters to compensate. Curious to see how/if they address it Yeah, I'm not sure if we'll see styles and arts return going forward, which is a shame, but they really do need to make the monsters more intimidating. Generations hasn't really felt hard for me yet, and while that might be due to experience and not being in the real endgame yet it's still a bit odd.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:23
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What I would give for a new skill on HH that reduces song playing time.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:28
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scaterry posted:What I would give for a new skill on HH that reduces song playing time. Speedmetal Qurupeco
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Aug 1, 2016 17:51
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I usually play shield weapons so this is going to be pretty distinctly coloured but honestly, they should ditch adept style and just give every shield weapon a Perfect Guard mechanic. I've been playing Guild GL a lot lately and my goodness it can end up being a lot of turtling down before you unload damage.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:12
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I like my turtling though 
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Aug 1, 2016 18:17
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IMO just put deviljho in every quest Or dread queen
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Aug 1, 2016 18:20
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Cb lets you turtle enemies to death. Me and two other dudes took down a snowbaron lagombi and I'm certain over half the damage inflicted on him was from it bouncing off my shield
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Aug 1, 2016 18:29
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Roland Jones posted:Yeah, I'm not sure if we'll see styles and arts return going forward, which is a shame, but they really do need to make the monsters more intimidating. Generations hasn't really felt hard for me yet, and while that might be due to experience and not being in the real endgame yet it's still a bit odd. I hope the arts stick around. Without them, there wouldn't have been anything at all new. I think adept could get a bit of a nerf (the dodge itself is PLENTY without adding reloads) but I don't think the attack moves are so powerful that they need to go. I think there could be some balancing done, but overall, I think this was a great refinement. Don't forget that, having already played MH in the past, the first 2/3rds of the game are going to feel easy.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:31
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Idk about the styles. I mean aerial trivializes so many thing.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:32
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