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Caphi posted:6 move and a hard 1 range post movement is still pretty bad. Burning Accel to have the same effective attack range as (or less than) most attackers have on normal power is still pretty bad. And who were you going to pair that 1 range with? You need to think out of the box. Axel has drive as his twin spirit command, that turns on Touya's post movement attack along with Orgone barrier and Axel's Attacker. If you aren't using accelerate every turn then I'm not sure how you're getting those SR points. You also need to slot an accuracy modifier item in Touya's slots because that 0 and -5 aren't going to do him any favors when enemies are as dodgy as they are. Edit: There's also the Ability slots. People seem to forget about them and they can make or break twins. The Full Block, Range and Movement abilities are pretty easy to get and game changing for any twins. ShiunTouya fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:08
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In both of those Calvina screenshots I'm more happy to see Shu well represented 
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Aug 14, 2016 19:19
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ShiunTouya posted:You need to think out of the box. Axel has drive as his twin spirit command, that turns on Touya's post movement attack along with Orgone barrier and Axel's Attacker. If you aren't using accelerate every turn then I'm not sure how you're getting those SR points. You also need to slot an accuracy modifier item in Touya's slots because that 0 and -5 aren't going to do him any favors when enemies are as dodgy as they are. Even with all those things Granteed lags behind other units. Having to blow Drive just to make him competent looks a lot worse when he's hanging out with a lot of other units that are just plain better. Dracodeus is amazing of course but the regular Granteed is probably the single worst of the new units in the game and honestly probably one of the worst units available to you outside of like the lovely jet or MP Hucke. (Which is partially due to MD having an amazing unit lineup but still.) Rascyc posted:In both of those Calvina screenshots I'm more happy to see Shu well represented Shu would basically be the most broken if Calvina wasn't there. Post-move insane-range MAP attack, incredibly high damage, effectively unkillable AND Neo Granzon who does all those things but better? I didn't even go out of my way to use Shu, he just happened. Especially in the late game you can effectively end stages by sending Calvina one direction and Shu the other and just having people follow in to clean up after they're done. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:20
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ImpAtom posted:Even with all those things Granteed lags behind other units. Having to blow Drive just to make him competent looks a lot worse when he's hanging out with a lot of other units that are just plain better. Dracodeus is amazing of course but the regular Granteed is probably the single worst of the new units in the game and honestly probably one of the worst units available to you outside of like the lovely jet or MP Hucke. (Which is partially due to MD having an amazing unit lineup but still.) You are supposed to use Drive at the beginning of the stage to get any mileage out of it. It's also there for a reason, which is to use it during the early game to turn on Attacker when there's not enough enemies and you don't have better things to use Axel SP's on. Making Granteed decent is just a side-effect of it. If you want to talk about a unit that's actually just plain bad, there's the Geant Chevalier and I'm still incredibly salty about that. ShiunTouya fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:24
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You seem like you're determined to use the Granteed because you like it, which is extremely cool and a good way to play Super Robot Wars, but that doesn't mean it's actually effective because you can sink all your resources into making it kind of okay.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:28
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Caphi posted:You seem like you're determined to use the Granteed because you like it, which is extremely cool and a good way to play Super Robot Wars, but that doesn't mean it's actually effective because you can sink all your resources into making it kind of okay. I've not mentioned using a single digit of cash or pp on fixing Granteed. That's far away from how I play the game because I split my resources around. Touya isn't even close to my top ace. i just think it's ridiculous that people claim it's the worst thing ever when it really isn't.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:31
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Geant Chevalier what did they do to you  ZERO post-movement attacks until 120 morale
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Aug 14, 2016 19:32
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ShiunTouya posted:You are supposed to use Drive at the beginning of the stage to get any mileage out of it. It's also there for a reason, which is to use it during the early game to turn on Attacker when there's not enough enemies and you don't have better things to use Axel SP's on. Drive is absolutely a "at the start of a stage" spell but also of limited use because of that. It's also Axel's twin spell which means it is draining SP from both him and Touya and with the dodge boost enemies get once you hit hard mode having SP available for Focus/Strike makes things a lot less tedious. Accuracy upgrades can help the latter but it also goes back to the problem of "Almost anyone else in the game will benefit more from this than Granteed." Like I said, once he gets Dracodeus almost every problem he has is solved and he becomes a fantastic unit because he doesn't need a bunch of babysitting and investment to hit 'competent.' Panic! at Nabisco posted:Geant Chevalier what did they do to you Geant Chevalier gets helped a lot once you ace Josh because he gets a low-cost version of the "break barriers + move faster + attack after move" spell, which makes him actually an incredibly good Armor Breaker. But until then Fortegigas is the way to go. Cheavlier is basically a goddamn waste of time until that point.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:33
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Yeah the Chevalier is useless. Maybe someone really wanted you to use the Fortgig. And then a bunch of Lamalice stages lock in the Chevalier and Neige. 
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Aug 14, 2016 19:33
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ImpAtom posted:Drive is absolutely a "at the start of a stage" spell but also of limited use because of that. It's also Axel's twin spell which means it is draining SP from both him and Touya and with the dodge boost enemies get once you hit hard mode having SP available for Focus/Strike makes things a lot less tedious. Accuracy upgrades can help the latter but it also goes back to the problem of "Almost anyone else in the game will benefit more from this than Granteed." I've never had issues with using drive because there's Alfimi for any of the few times Axel actually misses or needs sure hit. Caphi posted:Yeah the Chevalier is useless. Maybe someone really wanted you to use the Fortgig. If only they felt that enough to actually give you Strega and Ganador...
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Aug 14, 2016 19:34
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ShiunTouya posted:I've never had issues with using drive because there's Alfimi for any of the few times Axel actually misses or needs sure hit. So at this point, I just want to be clear, you're going "Touya is good as long as you pair him with Axel and Axel is good as long as you Alfimi to cover his lack of accuracy!" So you're now three people in the hole in order to make Granteed a unit which even you admit isn't one of your top aces. It's basically the same problem as the Chevalier actually. You CAN invest a bunch of stuff in getting it going or just use something else that requires less to get going and which probably is overall better to boot. The only reason I'd put Geant Chevalier above Granteed is because it is one of your few early-game sources of Armor Breaker which makes killing certain bosses before they run a lot more viable. Caphi posted:And then a bunch of Lamalice stages lock in the Chevalier and Neige. At least you have the ability to revert back to the Aile Chevalier which, while not optimal, is more usable if you're not looking to kill a boss. (Pretty much every Lamilice stage)
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Aug 14, 2016 19:39
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Policenaut posted:Do you guys have a list of suggested tag teams? I really don't know what kind of synergy I'm looking for right now and just kind of throwing people together that I think might work. I wrote a thing but it's too big so: Kyosuke/Sanger, Ratsel/Excellen, Viletta/Seolla (give Viletta an ALL attack), Kai/Arado gives you the easiest access to 4 combo attacks with Maximum Breaks and the units are incredibly compatible and everybody has accelerate (except Kai who has raid, but put him in the Gespenst H gets him accel from Aschen). Ryusei/Latooni is what I use for SRX so I can MB them for HTB Cannon and RHB. 200PP on Ratsel and Excellen gets them both Attack Again so you can bust out double combo moves if you pump Ratsel's skill stat (which Excellen will borrow with the stat share spell). I mostly just got for movement ranges, ALL attacks and weapon range compatibility when doing twins. Leona in the Exexbein with Yon in the Pfeil has done alright for me. Oh Snapple! posted:After going from 12 deployment slots + 2 forced deployments on one mission to a whopping loving 9 slots on the next, I may very well have just given my TV the finger. Don't worry, it opens up pretty much right after that if you're at the stage I'm thinking of. ShiunTouya posted:You need to think out of the box. Axel has drive as his twin spirit command, that turns on Touya's post movement attack along with Orgone barrier and Axel's Attacker. If you aren't using accelerate every turn then I'm not sure how you're getting those SR points. You also need to slot an accuracy modifier item in Touya's slots because that 0 and -5 aren't going to do him any favors when enemies are as dodgy as they are. Devoting any of those resources to pretty much any other unit improves them way more than Granteed. Any unit with that amount of babying becomes an incredible monster while it gets Granteed to "decent" and yes everyone is using accelerate every turn but then Granteed is still 2 squares slower than everybody else. You can work around the movement and you can get an SP Drink super early as a secret to help cover it's crippling accuracy problems, but that still leaves it with P-attack range and energy problems. You can pick two of it's problems to fix and it'll still have more unless you dedicate way more resources to it than any other unit. It's not so bad its unusable, but it is definitely towards the garbo end of units when you compare it to pretty much anything else. Oddly enough Calvina coming with Hit & Away makes her better suited to it than Touya. I've heard a lot of good things about Dracodeus though so I'm looking forward to that in the next few stages. EthanSteele fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:40
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While we're talking about formations and Re-Tech, who's y'all's preferred Forte Gigas subpilot? I'm still deciding, my Laci is way behind on kills but I can still work on that.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:43
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Rim has Quicken from the start so she's my pick because I love to go fast.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:50
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Caphi posted:While we're talking about formations and Re-Tech, who's y'all's preferred Forte Gigas subpilot? I'm still deciding, my Laci is way behind on kills but I can still work on that. Rim is pretty much objectively better but I dislike forcing her into the subpilot role instead of deploying her on her own.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:51
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ImpAtom posted:So at this point, I just want to be clear, you're going "Touya is good as long as you pair him with Axel and Axel is good as long as you Alfimi to cover his lack of accuracy!" So you're now three people in the hole in order to make Granteed a unit which even you admit isn't one of your top aces. You COULD do the same with Chevalier, but then you'd need to make a bunch of concessions to make that twin decent due to the bad matchup of ranges between Soulgain and Geant and the fact Geant Chevalier can only fly (And gets a ridiculous unusable FUB too). Attacker is also a way to killing bosses and simply using that along with Sure hit when you need it (not often) is not an issue. You're simply using Alfimi for her intended purpose. Granteed being usable is a byproduct of being decent matchup to Axel, but you could replace Granteed with anyone you want. I'm not trying to claim Granteed is an amazing unit, all I'm saying he's not completely broken an unsable, unlike Geant Chevalier, especially when you get to contrast Geant from the previous game to this one. Also I fail to see how any of the above is using "a lot of resources" as nothing of the above is expendable and untradable unlike PP or money. ShiunTouya fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:54
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ShiunTouya posted:You COULD do the same with Chevalier, but then you'd need to make a bunch of concessions to make that twin decent due to the bad matchup of ranges between Soulgain and Geant and the fact Geant Chevalier can only fly (And gets a ridiculous unusable FUB too). Attacker is also a way to killing bosses and simply using that along with Sure hit when you need it (not often) is not an issue. You're simply using Alfimi for her intended purpose. Granteed being usable is a byproduct of being decent matchup to Axel, but you could replace Granteed with anyone you want. Attacker is infinitely inferior to Maximum Break though. Like the only thing you could really be doing (which admittedly is what I did) is make Axel part of the Maximum Break but if you do that there are a BUNCH of better partners for him than Touya. Most of what you're saying is "Axel is a really good unit" which is true. It has nothing to do with Touya and you can pair Axel with, say, Touma and get a better result.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:56
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ImpAtom posted:Attacker is infinitely inferior to Maximum Break though. Like the only thing you could really be doing (which admittedly is what I did) is make Axel part of the Maximum Break but if you do that there are a BUNCH of better partners for him than Touya. Touma is better off with Type 0 because they have similar ranges. And what you said I'm saying is exactly what I'm saying. I've never tried to argue anything other than "Granteed isn't a complete poo poo unit". EDIT: Re-Tech pilots: Glacies: Focus (15), Flash (10), Inspire (30), Fury (15), Hot Blood (40), Hope (45)[TWIN] ---Ace Bonus: (If next to Josh, all spirit commands cost -10%) Rim: Accel (10), Fortitude (15), Focus (15), Strike (20), Hot Blood (40), Bonds (35)[TWIN] ---Ace Bonus: (Spirit Command "Strike" becomes "Sense") I think Glacies is definitely better off in her own unit if just because of her twin spirit command. ShiunTouya fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 20:01
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Caphi posted:While we're talking about formations and Re-Tech, who's y'all's preferred Forte Gigas subpilot? I'm still deciding, my Laci is way behind on kills but I can still work on that. The Fabularis is incredibly good/strictly superior to the Dear Blanche Neige in Moon Dwellers and Glacies is a hell of a pilot. They're both good subpilots but you give up a whole lot more by chucking Glacies in the back seat than you do Rim. Rim in the back seat also gives you an Accelerate that isn't taking up a unit slot.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:03
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The event with Calvina putting the fear of God into Jua-Mu so hard that even after stopping time all he can do is cower away is  as gently caress. poo poo like that is why I hold it against Z3 for cheaping the gently caress out and not having full 3D map sprites.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:33
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On the other hand, 3d models on a map are super annoying in nocturnal stages and I can't tell half of them apart. I remember missing a few of them that were camouflaged with the terrain in OG2nd too, and that sucked. Never had that problem with alpha series sprites, those were cool.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:08
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Oh Snapple! posted:The event with Calvina putting the fear of God into Jua-Mu so hard that even after stopping time all he can do is cower away is What, that's not what happened, he ran because he used the Wrathailem in reflex and it instantly shattered his entire self-image and pride as a knight because doing that is taboo. He realized he hosed up. He pushed the button because of Calvina but she's not why he turned tail.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:13
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Caphi posted:What, that's not what happened, he ran because he used the Wrathailem in reflex and it instantly shattered his entire self-image and pride as a knight because doing that is taboo. He realized he hosed up. He pushed the button because of Calvina but she's not why he turned tail. Nah I mean during the actual time-stop itself, which seemed very much out of fear. What you said was why he just up and left after that, as least to my perceptions. Either way I like what I said better anyway so that's how I'ma keep interpreting it 
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Aug 14, 2016 21:31
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Also, "I didn't go out of my way to use Shu, he just happened." is, I'm pretty sure, what Zezenan keeps telling himself at night.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:48
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Michiru's "kiss my gun" line for his kick. He's the Gantetsu Banchou, but "kiss my gan" but wrong can't be what happened here. What the heck is it meant to be?
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Aug 14, 2016 21:50
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the granteed's upgrade is definitely not a poo poo unit, though i don't like it personally at all! it has a strong barrier and armor in a game where supers with barriers are completely untouchable until the last stage or two, and having post-movement poo poo locked behind morale isn't too much of an issue for me because we had ratsel and deathpenis repeatedly casting wizard magic spells on turn 1 until the entire army's morale was at 130. i mean i'm all for using whoever you want in these games but i like having overwhelming range and MAP power cheese so for me that unit was consigned to the bench from the get-go edit: also yes, poor josh didn't get up to much in our playthrough but rim made for a really great partner for sanger with her innate hit and away and the two of them having good, strong all-attacks. it wasn't a terribly unique pairing by any means, just a solid all-sweeper squad with the ability to tag in sanger to the front when it came time to start piling in on bosses. Luceid fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 21:55
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When is OG going to get its own Fire Bomber? Actually if the Faerlions did Fire Bomber stuff I might use them. It'd probably be five times as skeevy, though.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:57
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Caphi posted:When is OG going to get its own Fire Bomber? Axel, as soon as someone gives him a loving guitar. But, yeah, it's probably gonna be the Fairlions. Add in Suzuka if they bring in more Endless Frontier folks.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:00
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Shine's idol career equipping her Fairlion with Basara style buffs would be good and a reason to bring her beyond RHB and Cheer/Bless. Though to be fair, Valored, stat share Royal Heartbreakers are good as hell.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:16
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Just got the Brigandy and gently caress it owns
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Aug 14, 2016 22:22
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Should I bother looking up secrets for a first time play thorough? I'll undoubtedly get all the SR points at least. Only things I care about are mechs and pilots.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:50
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Rascyc posted:Should I bother looking up secrets for a first time play thorough? I'll undoubtedly get all the SR points at least. Only things I care about are mechs and pilots. Devant Org & Endlich Geist Arriere must battle Endlich Geist 3 times within 3 turns on Stage 34. Arriere (in Flickerei Geist) must battle Endlich Geist on the final stage. Both must survive the encounter. Following that, Arriere must battle Endlich Geist again before XN-L spawns. Beyond that, kill all the grunts in Earth stage 8/kill every enemy unit within 5 turns on Space stage 7 for an SP drink, and using a good variety of pilots/leveling lots of people up and getting lots of aces will get you the rest of the secrets.
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Aug 14, 2016 23:22
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The three secret mechs locked behind early game killcounts are NG+ only IIRC so don't even bother with those.
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Aug 14, 2016 23:26
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For MD, what should I be using my PP for? Every other game I've played (GBA OG1/2, Alpha Gaiden), I've always just bought the cheapest abilities I could find as soon as I could, but I've been saving more in this game, and I've got about 400 on most of my main units at about mission 25. Should I just dump continuous action on everyone I can?
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Aug 14, 2016 23:29
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Don't bother, you'll never get the 70 kills secrets on a first playthrough. There's only one secret unit you can really feasibly get: There's one involving Calvina and Touya you can do first run also. You have to go Moon Route though. Calvina must battle Jua-Mu on Stage 30 Moon Route (not needed in NG+). Touya must destroy Coustwell Brachium during Stage 35 and have the Excellence Rescue on the map. ACES CURE PLANES posted:For MD, what should I be using my PP for? Every other game I've played (GBA OG1/2, Alpha Gaiden), I've always just bought the cheapest abilities I could find as soon as I could, but I've been saving more in this game, and I've got about 400 on most of my main units at about mission 25. Should I just dump continuous action on everyone I can? Continuous Action, Break Will Limit, MB Activate (for people in the front) and Support Attack are all good. The one that lowers the damage penalty for attacking someone in a different Twin position is also good for people in the back. EthanSteele fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 23:30
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Watching all the stuff from the EVA vs Godzilla event in X-Omega just makes me want Akane and Kiryu in a big boy SRW because Akane is extremely good and should be in as many things as possible.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:25
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I have to say that MD's secret list is honestly kinda crap. Aside from the weapon and the bonus parts none of them are remotely worth the trouble. Coustwell would be fine if you got it earlier in the game but coming AFTER the upgrades means that at best you'll stuck Touya in there for all of like 3 stages since he's either plot-locked or the Dracodeus has other advantages and unless you go out of your way to gimp Calvina for the first 2/3rds of the game she'll have no use for a melee-oriented mecha that is in every way inferior to her main one.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:31
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Caphi posted:When is OG going to get its own Fire Bomber?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:48
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Brunom1 posted:But, yeah, it's probably gonna be the Fairlions. Meanwhile I've barely started Moon Dwellers and I keep being confused by some of the design decisions. Why does Hugo get Hit and Away but Aqua doesn't? Why does the Gespenst Type N have a chain attack but the Type G doesn't? ActionZero fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 01:03
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AradoBalanga posted:I can see it now: the newest version of Royal Heart Breaker literally becomes a music video. Possibly with the rest of the New Aggressors as the backup dancers. Yes, even Kai. Kai becomes Ray. Lamia becomes Viffidas ActionZero posted:I'm sure someone told me that at the end of OG2nd Shine makes Latooni start moonlighting as an idol singer in Riksent. Is that true or was it just a fever dream? A lot of weird design decisions are usually for character reasons but it doesn't make them any better.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:14
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