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Max posted:Jiwon goes all in really early, killing Jinho's ability to count cards. He tends to do better the longer the game goes on. Jinho calls and loses. I literally skipped as soon as they named the match so I am vaguely piecing it together from the reactions because I didn't listen to the explanation. I've calmed down enough to continue with the show but I'll never be able to watch that Death Match. Did it come down to luck or was it an out maneuver? I appreciate the response!
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Aug 19, 2016 03:46
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Max posted:Jiwon goes all in really early, killing Jinho's ability to count cards. He tends to do better the longer the game goes on. Jinho calls and loses. Edit: I forgot that they got tied TWICE (the tiebreaker needed a second tiebreaker). The suspense in that final moment is unreal. Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 03:48
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EmmyOk posted:I literally skipped as soon as they named the match so I am vaguely piecing it together from the reactions because I didn't listen to the explanation. I've calmed down enough to continue with the show but I'll never be able to watch that Death Match. Did it come down to luck or was it an out maneuver? I appreciate the response! Like Can of Worms says. It's all luck. To be fair to Jiwon, he knew Jinho was really good at that game, and that letting it continue for long would doom him, so he just went for it. But it's all luck
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Aug 19, 2016 03:49
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Symbolic Butt posted:Do I have to watch the previous 12 episodes? That probably was episode 13 that you were linked previously  I'll admit the opening games are a lot better if you're familiar with the cast; if you really have to you might skip to the action we're all talking about by going to 29 minutes in or so.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:55
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Max posted:Like Can of Worms says. It's all luck. To be fair to Jiwon, he knew Jinho was really good at that game, and that letting it continue for long would doom him, so he just went for it. But it's all luck Can Of Worms posted:You forgot the part where Jinho loses becauses they go to a tiebreaker when Jiwon goes all in, making his loss entirely luck based. So if I am understanding things, Jiwon knew he could not win a battle of wits and therefore forced it to be a game of luck? If that's how it ends for Jinho I'm happy he lost to luck rather than being bested. It's just such a shame he lost to someone who in my opinion is very annoying and quite scummy. I checked Doohee's FB today as it's public and he has plenty of recent pictures of himself and Jinho  Very hard to see how Sangmin can lose now. I expect next time he's not a winner he'll get forced to use his token but even then it's hard to see anyone outfoxing him.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:04
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S2 is dumb and bad and now that you've seen THAT episode you can skip to S3, which is cool and good.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:24
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There's no bad Genius, only not-so-good Genius. 
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Aug 19, 2016 04:27
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The worst part of the Jiwon/Jinho match is when a hand ends in a tie, the bets automatically carry over into the next hand. Jinho called on the first tie, but that rule doomed him and is the stupidest rule they had in the game
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Aug 19, 2016 04:28
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S2E8's death match, S2E9's main match, S2E10's death match and S2E11 are all excellent.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:29
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Symbolic Butt posted:Do I have to watch the previous 12 episodes? Max Peck posted:That probably was episode 13 that you were linked previously
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Aug 19, 2016 04:30
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I'm excited for season three because I heard someone has better dealer interactions than Sunggyu in season one 
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Aug 19, 2016 04:34
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Max posted:Like Can of Worms says. It's all luck. To be fair to Jiwon, he knew Jinho was really good at that game, and that letting it continue for long would doom him, so he just went for it. But it's all luck
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Aug 19, 2016 04:41
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Symbolic Butt posted:Do I have to watch the previous 12 episodes? I didn't watch the first 12, I've heard they're actually pretty scrappy. That was actually probably it, Dongmin was in 13. 13 is early on enough that they don't make in-jokes and references and they're still feeling out the format. Even if the minigames and such don't grab you, stick with it until the main chase happens.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:46
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Thanks for the replies and the spoiler courtesy everyone! I'm two episodes in now, which was the Election Game. We all knew Gura masterminded something, but to see just how far in advance he did it was nice. A bit disappointed that the consecutive wins game came back, but at least there were different factors this time that influenced victory. Hope the future death matches are different though. I got three of my friends on the show and we're all on episode two. Everyone's favourite is Sunggyu because he seems to just be hamming it up as the obvious villain. "I think she wants to pick me in the death match. But she can't. That's sad." 
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Aug 19, 2016 04:48
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That's probably the first Extreme Ways moment, though I don't know if it got the song. The interaction in episode one really hooked me, but its a pretty simple game, a clever but straightforward betrayal and a kind of crappy Death Match. But episode 2 immediately brings a very interesting game, and immediately we get someone masterminding an unorthodox victory by thinking outside the box and handling the social game. It's really the whole Genius concept in a nutshell. One the subject of S2, I think it came down to casting. S1 was the best case scenario, S2 was about as unlucky as you can reasonably get, and S3 is probably what a par result looks like. A lot of S2's problems stem from the fact that Yohwan and Jiwon didn't pan out. They both got significant screen time and "story" development. Yohwan was pitched as Jinho's foil, a super Jinho... which in a way was true because Jinho was mediocre at team games but ruthless in individual ones. Yohwan was even worse in team games, though not really any better one-on-one. Partway through the season they caught on and gave him the comedy edit, but it was really kind of pathetic. Meanwhile Jiwon for a while looked like he might be a meaner version of Sangmin, or perhaps an entirely new kind of player, a full out villain. Except it turned out that all his best moves were Sangmin pulling the strings, and that he was a paper tiger to be disposed of when he was no longer useful. So all of that rear end in a top hat behavior that might have been forgivable from a skilled but ruthless player ended up just being dick moves for no reason other than his selfish amusement. As much as Doohee got screwed, he was bad casting luck too. He was probably the new Poong, but he came off more as whiny than funny. Plus he repeatedly made boneheaded plays, particularly betraying people for no real reason. Not just that he should have trusted them, but his betrayals also didn't lead to any benefits for him - in fact they meant his team lost the game and he ended up in a worse spot himself. Jiwon's theft was totally about Jiwon being an rear end, but I think the other players didn't protest strongly because Doohee had managed to annoy them (similar to how some people felt in S3 re: Hyunmin at the end of that season). Add to that not realizing how amazing Junghyun was until pretty late, Eunkyul clearly not wanting to be there after a few episodes, and their struggle with the longer format early on. I think S2 is better in the end than its given credit for, but after winning the casting lottery in S1, they didn't quite know what to do with the S2 cast. Fortunately I think they learned a lot from it that helped S3. They clearly identified Yeonseung as someone to watch early on, probably because of missing Junghyun, and didn't tie themselves to particular narratives.
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Aug 19, 2016 05:30
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Corn Thongs posted:The worst part of the Jiwon/Jinho match is when a hand ends in a tie, the bets automatically carry over into the next hand. Jinho called on the first tie, but that rule doomed him and is the stupidest rule they had in the game Don't get me started
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Aug 19, 2016 08:36
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Can Of Worms posted:S2E8's death match, S2E9's main match, S2E10's death match and S2E11 are all excellent. Yeah, the good thing is that after S2E7, we are at rock bottom in regards to morale. Things are only going to go upwards from here.
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Aug 19, 2016 11:26
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EmmyOk posted:So if I am understanding things, Jiwon knew he could not win a battle of wits and therefore forced it to be a game of luck? If that's how it ends for Jinho I'm happy he lost to luck rather than being bested. It's just such a shame he lost to someone who in my opinion is very annoying and quite scummy. I checked Doohee's FB today as it's public and he has plenty of recent pictures of himself and Jinho That deathmatch was bitterly bitterly disappointing for Jinho fans (i.e. everyone). "Best Player loses to Worst Player on coin flip". Ugh. And just when you were hoping for him to deliver righteous justice too. Anyway at that point I started rooting for invincible villain Sangmin cus he was the only player who had a plan and everyone else was a chump. When the hero is defeated might as well root for the villain I guess. Comrade Gorbash posted:
Spoilers for the end of S2. Problem I have with S2 is that after Jinho's eliminated the season is basically over. Sangmin casually strolls to victory and nobody does anything to stop him - occasionally people try allying against him but said alliances almost immediately succumb to infighting and they collapse before they even accomplish anything (they don't even manage to bait out his immortality token). I mean there's some fun episodes but Sangmin is in a ridiculously dominant position for so many episodes in a row that you wonder if other people are even trying (strictly speaking I guess things could've fallen apart quite quickly for Sangmin but they didn't so whatever). "big alliance defeats external threat then slowly rolls over and dies" just isn't a compelling narrative, especially when other seasons have some really good ones. It's still The Genius so it's still good, but it's not S1,S3,S4 good.
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Aug 19, 2016 11:31
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It's totally worth it to watch the rest of season 2 at least once so you can experience Grandpa turning into the terminator
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Aug 19, 2016 12:47
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I am glad Episode Eight opened with Sangmin Super Saiyan jokes! 100% supporting him from now on because other than Jinho he's the only person who actually has "genius" moments, everyone else is just kind of taking part. Also from Season Three they should have a Jinho hotline where people can spend Garnets for a two minute call to Jinho for optimal strategies
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Aug 19, 2016 13:47
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Since this thread is so active again - everyone go watch God of Music! It's Sangmin's mockumentary subbed by Bumbdi. It's seriously funny.
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Aug 19, 2016 13:55
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Can Of Worms posted:You forgot the part where Jinho loses becauses they go to a tiebreaker when Jiwon goes all in, making his loss entirely luck based. Corn Thongs posted:The worst part of the Jiwon/Jinho match is when a hand ends in a tie, the bets automatically carry over into the next hand. Jinho called on the first tie, but that rule doomed him and is the stupidest rule they had in the game To be fair, its no more luck based than the game itself. You just have to take it into account with the odds. The hand that Jiwon went all in on had both players with a 2, and 1 8 on the board. It was the first hand so of the 37 unknown cards each player could have, 34 are winners, and 3 would draw, so thats a ~92% of winning, and an ~8% chance of drawing which translates to another ~4% chance of winning the following round, so each player knew they had a ~96% chance of winning and the only way they could lose is a draw, which isn't really any different from having an actual 96% chance of winning a single hand with no draws. The draw rule effectively makes it so there are fewer totally safe bets. It does give the appearance of a loss based on a coin flip which is lovely but in reality its just a continuation of the previous hand's game choices.
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Aug 19, 2016 14:37
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The memory picture game reappeared and I have to applaud the winner's strategy. I love the game though because I've a really good memory and get to see how well I'd do.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:05
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Blue Star Error posted:To be fair, its no more luck based than the game itself. You just have to take it into account with the odds. This doesn't take into account a player actively keeping track of what has been played, which Jinho is known to do and what got him the win against Gura in the first season. Emmy don't read this, season 2 finale spoilers Yohwan, for all his failings, does do one thing right in the final games when they get to indian poker. He just keeps chipping away at Sangmin no matter what with small bets, so that he doesn't end up in the same situation Jinho was in.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:12
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Knowing he was outclassed, going for the coinflip was jiwons best move.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:17
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Max posted:This doesn't take into account a player actively keeping track of what has been played, which Jinho is known to do and what got him the win against Gura in the first season. There were no cards already played, it was the first hand.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:22
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I misread what you were saying, I thought you were saying it wouldn't matter if the hand had been deep in the game at that point or not. Nevermind! Honestly, Jinho shouldn't have taken that bet right off the bat and seen the strategy for what it was.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:26
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Max posted:Honestly, Jinho shouldn't have taken that bet right off the bat and seen the strategy for what it was. The problem then is, if you won't call an all in when you have a 96% chance of winning, when will you? 100%? Thats unlikely to happen until the last few hands of the deck and by then Jiwon could have bled you dry by going all in every hand. If Jiwon thought his strategy through which he probably hadn't, he also could potentially fold the final 2 or 3 hands of the deck to lose the minimum amount to Jinho's card counting skills. Jiwon got very lucky that essentially the perfect hand for his strategy came out first time but Jinho made the right decision to call imo.
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Aug 19, 2016 15:47
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Yeah, jinhos decision was objectively correct. If you don't call when your opponent all ins with the worst card, then when the heck do you call
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Aug 19, 2016 17:55
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I finally watched it and yeah it is literally 100% luck that decided Indian Hold'em. There was 0 reason for him not to call the first hand it's just unfortunate the perfect hand for the opponent's plan came up first and after that it was simply luck, even the dealer looked disappointed in the result imo. God himself had to descend to beat my boy Jinho. e: Catching up on BTS for episode eight of season two and of course it was Sangmin who had actually gameplanned the memory game and not grandpa lmao. Also I think Sangmin probably misses Jinho now that he's surrounded by scrubs. EmmyOk fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 18:35
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EmmyOk posted:e: Catching up on BTS for episode eight of season two and of course it was Sangmin who had actually gameplanned the memory game and not grandpa lmao. Also I think Sangmin probably misses Jinho now that he's surrounded by scrubs. But yeah, you can tell Sangmin doesn't really respect anyone else who's left. Certainly not as an opponent. On the other hand, if there's any Genius contestant who you want to watch just dunk on people for episodes at a time, it's Sangmin... or someone you'll meet in S3.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:00
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Yeah when he was yelling out to Jinho to deliver certain numbers in the auction I was like "he must be so loving bored right now". Also your avatar is great!
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Aug 19, 2016 20:04
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I'm watching through season 3 again and episode 5 is really where Dongmin comes into his own, as confusing as that game is.
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Aug 20, 2016 06:02
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Just finished watching episodes 3 and 4 with the same friend! Not much to say about Episode 3's bread nations game because we thought there would be more to it. When it started we were like, "Can't they win by just hoarding tickets and denying the smaller group from taking any bread?" and the answer was "Yes, can." No real twist to it. Still fun to watch tho. The Yuktori death match at the end was tough because we're unfamiliar with the base game but from what we can tell it's basically Korean Ludo with sticks thrown to replace dice, with the twist that everyone throw's one stick. The part we found hard to understand was the intricacies of marked/unmarked stick combos but eh, it's a traditional Korean game apparently so I'm sure their audience appreciated how quick the explanation was. Episode 4 was great though, starting with Zombie Game. This one I believe is ripped straight out of Liar Game (Virus Game?) with some slight variations (biggest being can't check own status) and a lack of a sociopathic tyrant millionaire. We started role playing what if we were zombies and decided if one of us was a zombie, we'd have a sign to let the other know. If both zombies no problem, if one zombie we infect each other and move on, if both human we have one ally each for sure. So we thought, if I was the original zombie, and she wasn't, we would both touch, and then I would "hide" somewhere and get a witness to watch me drink my medicine, and build a team around me or join one. Since the medicine wouldn't work on me anyway. Glad to see that strategy get used by Gura, which was thought up by Sunggyu. Didn't think of the refilling the medicine container trick, that was fun. And gross. We thought it had to be Sangmin or Gura as the second original zombie since they revealed Jungmoon straight away, although to be fair her poker face is horrible. Like, so bad. Everyone even called out on it haha. Overall, a fun game, probably our favourite main game so far. Then Yuktori round 2, which was easier to follow because it looks like Jungmoon/Jinho had a knack for the game and there was quite a bit more explaining the importance of moves. The previous game look like it took FOREVER. Too bad there was no betting for the results this time though. Other notes: - Jinho seems to be very bad at the social game but good at figuring out the win conditions. He's also so trusting! Fun to watch. - Sangmin on the other hand seems great at the social game, and is also very fun to watch in general. - Gura is basically a mobster. HEY YOU TOUCH WITH ME - Kyungran is insanely hot every time she's making a play and my friend pointed out that I've always been attracted to powerful women. :\ - Nice to see Sunggyu get his moment in the third round deathmatch. Wish he'd be more supervillain like he was in the first game. - We laughed hard when Minsoo was like "I can't trust players like you." Uh, man, you're a POKER PLAYER this should be par for course - Poong is an eternal pawn, haha. Like even his notetaking was bad, he couldn't read his own notes. - The other girls haven't really stood out, but my friend is always annoyed at how insanely high and impractical their heels are. - Changyeop was too trusting, and basically caused his own loss in the zombie game by allowing the humans to get even scores. - I wanna see some of the dealers just like...chilling out. Do they just stand there for like an hour. I don't think I've ever gotten into a reality TV show this bad, I think it's partly because of how we can "participate" in the games. Looking forward for more! PS - I realise I might have gotten the name of Yuktori wrong.
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Aug 20, 2016 07:42
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Yutnori. And yeah, it's basically Korean ludo. One mark is one back, two marks is forward two, three marks is forward three, four marks is forward 4 and an extra turn, no marks is forward five and an extra turn. Edit: so if Jinho and min soo are playing against, say, sunggyu and don't want him to move three spaces, because then he will take min soo's piece, they may play two blank sticks. Then sunggyu can either play none, for five moves and an extra turn, one for going one back or two for going forward two. Exercu fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 07:47
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I think the 'tactical' bit of that deathmatch is what makes it confusing. Normal yutnori got played on an episode of Running Man a little while ago and it's immediately easier to tell it's just Korean ludo/parcheesi/sorry. Normally the sticks are marked on one side and blank on the other and the player throws all four of them.
Maduo fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 09:19
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Ah, I see, so you throw 4 sticks and each of them have one side marked, one side unmarked. Basically the equivalent of dice. We got the "tactical" twist, where everyone throws a stick each and this time, each stick is either both sides marked or both sides unmarked. So have to guess what opponents are going to toss. We just didn't understand the movement conditions and the subtitles kept using the Korean names of the moves. About 20 minutes into episode 5 now and nobody seems to be lying in the Scamming Horse Race...yet. I hope someone does.
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Aug 20, 2016 10:23
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Tactical Yutnori move names Back do (one marked) - back one. Gae (two marked) - forward two. Gul (three marked)- forward three Yut (all marked)- forward four + 1 turn Mo (none marked)- forward five + 1 turn. For future reference.
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Aug 20, 2016 10:59
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That's a hard one every time it shows up (save once) because the games go on for so long that it's very difficult to make it narratively interesting, so there isn't much tension to the games since they just skip ahead a bunch anyway.
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Aug 20, 2016 13:30
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My review of episode nine of season two "you punks are 1000 years to early to challenge us". e: Also this season's final four seem super weak whereas last season it definitely felt like the four strongest people had made it to that round. EmmyOk fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 13:54
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