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Duckbag posted:Wasn't the line about recognizing bear fur because of her stepdad from the Herb funeral episode, half way through season 2 though? Incidentally, I think it's pretty clear the writers knew she was doomed from the start. Her introductory episode has her saying she's going to die tragically young. Season 2 we see her at a funeral, failing to learn anything from it. Season 3, she's talking to BoJack while painting her nails while driving (pretty similar to how Herb went out, actually) and crashes as the phone hangs up. It's a lot of foreshadowing. I almost feel like that was thrown in as a sop to people who might have started watching the show because someone told them "Get this, it has Aaron Paul basically playing Jesse Pinkman as a wacky sitcom neghbor". Or because that's how they themselves thought of him at the time.
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Aug 25, 2016 15:02
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This cutaway gag in the first episode IMO exemplifies the broad, offputting humor that makes early season 1 a slog (although it's interesting to note that PC wanting a kid stuck around as a character trait)
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Aug 25, 2016 15:54
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I agree it's not a great joke (well, except for "hey, aren't you the horse...") but is that really exemplary of the jokes in Season 1?
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Aug 25, 2016 16:02
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Only the bad ones! (fwiw I think the show was good by at least episode 6 and was steadily improving even before then.)
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Aug 25, 2016 16:14
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Duckbag posted:Wasn't the line about recognizing bear fur because of her stepdad from the Herb funeral episode, half way through season 2 though? Incidentally, I think it's pretty clear the writers knew she was doomed from the start. Her introductory episode has her saying she's going to die tragically young. Season 2 we see her at a funeral, failing to learn anything from it. Season 3, she's talking to BoJack while painting her nails while driving (pretty similar to how Herb went out, actually) and crashes as the phone hangs up. It's a lot of foreshadowing. When I first saw the bear fur thing in 'Still Broken',' I didn't think much of it. It seemed like a fairly innocuous animal world joke; like, she expertly identifies an animal's fur by taste, like an experienced outdoorsman survivalist type, only in the Bojack universe, such a skill could be honed simply by living with certain species. "These are elk tracks. Oh, yeah, my college roommate was an elk." I mean, the same episode contains the cryptic and ominous reference to her younger self being homeschooled by her negligent mother's photographer boyfriend, but I still prefer to think it was an unsavory reveal of yet another way young Sarah Lynn was exploited. (I.e. he took otherwise innocuous pictures of her but put them on the internet for creeps to look at.) I mean, the deeper reading of the bear fur thing would imply probably years of sexual abuse, rape. Besides being super dark, I honestly think her back stohery was sufficiently tragic without the rape element- but that might just be my exasperation with the general screenwriting trend of "rape is always the main bad thing in any female character's tragic back story." Also, yes, her death has been foreshadowed a lot since season one. But this is a show that likes to set up expectations and then subvert them- and besides, no one could predict exactly how they'd handle her death. I'm actually glad we got this gut wrenching conclusion instead of an off screen moment. "Oh did you hear Sarah Lynn died?" That would have been a missed opportunity, 3x11 was the most powerful moment in the series by far. And it still has funny lines left and right! "Well I'll be dick-sucked by a dumb poo poo! What have we here??"
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Aug 25, 2016 17:23
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i am the bird posted:I agree it's not a great joke (well, except for "hey, aren't you the horse...") but is that really exemplary of the jokes in Season 1? Yes it is
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Aug 25, 2016 17:50
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Duckbag posted:The only weird McFarlanesque cutaway I can think of is from the very first episode actually, when we suddenly flash to Todd tied up by the Mexican gangster for selling E on his turf. Weirdly enough, Todd being a drug dealer (or even doing anything more illegal than smoking weed and selling fake David Boreanas merch) has never been touched on since. i am the bird posted:I agree it's not a great joke (well, except for "hey, aren't you the horse...") but is that really exemplary of the jokes in Season 1? For the first 4 or 5 episodes or so, yes. It hits all the notes of lazy modern comedy: - trying hard to be edgy and shocking - a cutaway setup - overexplaining the joke (would have worked better without Bojack's line at the end) There's still some good jokes in the mix, but they're overshadowed by this stuff.
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Aug 25, 2016 17:53
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Also they sure do take up time the way they need to if you want to pad out a thin script.
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Aug 25, 2016 17:56
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The worst joke in the entire show is still the "what are YOUUUUUU doing here?" thing from 201, in my opinion. The idea behind it is solid but the execution (specifically the delivery being THAT poo poo and over-the-top) is cringeworthy.
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Aug 25, 2016 17:56
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Escobarbarian posted:The worst joke in the entire show is still the "what are YOUUUUUU doing here?" thing from 201, in my opinion. The idea behind it is solid but the execution (specifically the delivery being THAT poo poo and over-the-top) is cringeworthy. I like to think "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat" from 106 is their worst joke.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:01
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Aw man, I liked whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. 
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Aug 25, 2016 18:07
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Escobarbarian posted:The worst joke in the entire show is still the "what are YOUUUUUU doing here?" thing from 201, in my opinion. The idea behind it is solid but the execution (specifically the delivery being THAT poo poo and over-the-top) is cringeworthy.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:17
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Escobarbarian posted:The worst joke in the entire show is still the "what are YOUUUUUU doing here?" thing from 201, in my opinion. The idea behind it is solid but the execution (specifically the delivery being THAT poo poo and over-the-top) is cringeworthy. Any fault with this joke IMO is redeemed by the incredible long game it sets into motion culminating with what to that point was the most soul-searing dramatic moment in the series
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Aug 25, 2016 18:18
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Charlie the intern was so funny in s2... Broad humor isn't always so bad (oddly enough, he's one of two characters who are identified as having been on the Harvard Lampoon)
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Aug 25, 2016 18:28
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FactsAreUseless posted:Really? It felt like a pretty solid character moment for Bojack. He's choking hard because in his head he's afraid he's a hammy sitcom actor. So he acts like one. I just think it's possible to get that entire idea across without the line reading having to be that broad and over-the-top. I don't believe it as a character moment because it's not even sitcom schlocky, it's just yelling like a retarded person, and it kinda ruins the whole concept imo
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Aug 25, 2016 18:41
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I don't think you can really call Bojack McFarlane-esque, which is really defined by its scathing hatred of anyone who isn't like Seth Macfarlane.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:53
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And songs, don't forget songs.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:03
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Escobarbarian posted:I just think it's possible to get that entire idea across without the line reading having to be that broad and over-the-top. I don't believe it as a character moment because it's not even sitcom schlocky, it's just yelling like a retarded person, and it kinda ruins the whole concept imo Watch the video that WrathOfBlade posted. Each time is very sit-com in style. It's a bit over the top but it's still in the same style as everything The Horse says in Horsin' Around. So maybe that entire show as over the top, but him saying the line like that isn't over the top in universe. I think the show is kind of McFarlanesque in that they will say "You mean like that one time when" and then it cuts to that thing for a joke. At least in Bojack it usually happens to relate to the show. Unlike Family Guy which is "This is as dumb as the time Cecile B. Demile wanted to direct a Broadway show" and then it cuts to five minutes of that.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:34
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Escobarbarian posted:I just think it's possible to get that entire idea across without the line reading having to be that broad and over-the-top. I don't believe it as a character moment because it's not even sitcom schlocky, it's just yelling like a retarded person, and it kinda ruins the whole concept imo That's why it's funny. Lots of people who do regular public speaking get a bit self-conscious over the way they say things. The joke takes that to an extreme to destroy it. It wouldn't be funny if it was just Bojack stuttering on one of the letters or something.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:51
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Lt. Danger posted:That's why it's funny. Lots of people who do regular public speaking get a bit self-conscious over the way they say things. The joke takes that to an extreme to destroy it. Yeah that's fair. I still don't find it funny though - the discussion was about bad broad jokes in the show and that to me is the worst example.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:54
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Cojawfee posted:It's a bit over the top but it's still in the same style as everything The Horse says in Horsin' Around. THAT went well!
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Aug 25, 2016 20:01
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You guys need to cool it with the joke analysis, they ain't making Arrested Development.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:04
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Well it certainly ain't Ibsen
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Aug 25, 2016 20:06
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Season 1 does have one really good line - "He was grapin' it up with the Daredevil himself!" - which might actually be the funniest gag in the whole show
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Aug 25, 2016 20:09
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Escobarbarian posted:Yeah that's fair. I still don't find it funny though - the discussion was about bad broad jokes in the show and that to me is the worst example.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:27
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I don't think you can really call Bojack McFarlane-esque, which is really defined by its scathing hatred of anyone who isn't like Seth Macfarlane. To re-iterate, the Macfarlane/Adult Swim criticism applies to the first 4-6 episodes. Another example in addition to the cutaway setup jokes is when Todd first arrives in prison and another prisoner assures him it will be fine and promptly gets violently stabbed. No attempt to subvert your expectations - the exact thing you're expecting to happen happens, not to mention the mean spiritedness and violence doesn't feel in-tone with what the show becomes. Actually, I think the comparisons to Family Guy are almost unfair in that Family Guy, as lazy and bad as it can be, can still pull a few laughs per episode, usually by subverting your expectations. Thankfully, with 4 seasons, the first few episodes will only be a small fraction of the show. Re: Arrested Development - I do think the goon that described the show as Arrested Development + Mad Men + Zootopia hit the nail on the head and the AD comparisons are valid.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:54
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FireWorksWell posted:I like to think "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat" from 106 is their worst joke. I liked "Naomi Waaaaaaaatts?" though, so it paid off for me. A lot of the jerkass Bojack moments in early season one are awful. Bojack rants about the army, Bojack watches his sitcom while loving hot women etc. He definitely has the traits of a McFarlane character. I think there's still plenty to enjoy about the early episodes though.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:59
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Bojack's rant about the army is great, because he's right.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:49
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yeah lol, that's a high point of those early episodes. I remember DP at the time was all repping the fact a guy known for being a blowhard was playing a whale like it was the funniest poo poo ever or something.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:58
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The first half of S1 wasn't that bad, but not as good as the other 2.5 seasons we've had so far. Also, Todd is a boring garbage character that only exists so Bojack isn't talking to himself when Diane isn't around. Making him asexual just made him even more boring. 
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Aug 26, 2016 12:40
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To be honest, I'm still convinced that the first 4-6 episodes are like that to lull you into a false sense of security that you're watching a Macfarlane/Adult Swim style show before it punches you in the gut the way that BoJack does.
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Aug 26, 2016 12:45
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Iron Crowned posted:To be honest, I'm still convinced that the first 4-6 episodes are like that to lull you into a false sense of security that you're watching a Macfarlane/Adult Swim style show before it punches you in the gut the way that BoJack does. Too bad that strategy failed when most reviewers only watched the first 4-6 episodes of the first season before writing it off as exactly that.
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Aug 26, 2016 12:55
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Hedrigall posted:Too bad that strategy failed when most reviewers only watched the first 4-6 episodes of the first season before writing it off as exactly that. Most reviewers are pretty pretentious and bad at reviewing anyway.
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Aug 26, 2016 13:04
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Curious, why does everyone keep using "Adult Swim" as a shorthand for lazy cutaway/pop culture reference humor? AS is dozens of shows with all kinds of styles. If what you mean is "Robot Chicken", say that maybe? I feel like this does a disservice to just about every other show they've had, both good and bad.
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Aug 26, 2016 13:05
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Iron Crowned posted:Most reviewers are pretty pretentious and bad at reviewing anyway. I give reviewers 4/10
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Aug 26, 2016 13:09
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Data Graham posted:Curious, why does everyone keep using "Adult Swim" as a shorthand for lazy cutaway/pop culture reference humor? Yeah I always assume people use [as] as shorthand for that Robot Chicken poo poo, but it really isn't accurate.
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Aug 26, 2016 13:37
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I remember this joke being the point where I decided I definitely liked the show. It is absolutely the most hackneyed, Family Guy, MacFarlane, [adult swim], whatever joke setup you can image - cutaway to edgy non-sequitur! - but then you let it sit with you for a second and you realize that unlike Family Guy, "edgy jokes" are real moments in the characters' lives. The jokes aren't seasoning for the story, the two are inextricably linked. Another example of this: I love how Bojack repeatedly makes astute observations about history, theater, etc. in a way that seems like a non-sequitur - oh, the dumb jerk character who doesn't read books said something smart for some reason! - but if you pay attention during the scenes with his parents you absolutely understand how he osmosed this stuff.
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Aug 26, 2016 14:36
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Hedrigall posted:Too bad that strategy failed when most reviewers only watched the first 4-6 episodes of the first season before writing it off as exactly that. The problem is reviewers only got that many promotional episodes
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Aug 26, 2016 14:40
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Henchman of Santa posted:The problem is reviewers only got that many promotional episodes Then Netflix handled that poorly. They should have given out a sampling of early and late season episodes.
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Aug 26, 2016 14:53
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Hedrigall posted:Then Netflix handled that poorly. They should have given out a sampling of early and late season episodes. But then the reviewers have no sense of how the show got from point A to point B. It's hard to judge from sample episodes on a show with a continuous narrative. The writers really just took too long to get it going--but it doesn't matter anymore because it's become a much more acclaimed show than it started. It is pretty crazy to look at a place like AV Club that reviews just about everything and see that they didn't even do any season 1 reviews.
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Aug 26, 2016 14:59
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