Starsector - Waste no part of the Buffalo II [Preorder Alpha]

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Scut: Aug 26, 2008; Please remind me to draw more often.; Soiled Meat

I've been experimenting with more nuanced deployments now that I have a large and diverse enough fleet. Has anyone used Cautious commanders in their opening deployment as a sort of 'rope a dope' strategy?

I can usually bait an opposing fleet into making a burn maneuver to intercept me, which results in a big drain in their CR. So my thinking is that if I can deny them pitched battle for a while they should be experiencing malfunctions by the time I commit my reserve.

Does anyone know if ships without commanders can be set to different levels of aggression?

# ? Aug 22, 2016 13:13

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 09:54

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND: Jan 21, 2008

You can set ships to arbitrary AI in the dev mode edit variants menu, I believe. Possibly also the mission refit screen altho I can't remember right now.

so here's a funny loadout you can do with a very specific officer/skillset. I was loving around in a modded campaign trying to make a non Enforcer ship that could kill things with PD guns, and with the ISA fire control system hullmod (flat range bonus, lower projectile speed) on a Dictator (tons of small slots, ammo feed shipsystem, tanky) on an officer with Gunnery Implants 10 and Ordnance Expertise 10 as well as Target Analysis 10 (for the + shield damage perk and added efficiency of Frag against armor) you get a really beastly and funny loadout. It's also just pure eye candy watching streams of slow dakka spraying everywhere. About 900 range on those PD guns. I used shredders cause they fire in bursts and have slightly longer range, but you could also do more light MGs, or possibly a whole bunch of Reliant HMGs and then two Heavy Blasters or some crap.

The combat skills break the game completely but at least they allow you to make poo poo like this

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Aug 22, 2016

# ? Aug 22, 2016 15:18

MShadowy: Sep 30, 2013; dammit eyes don't work that way!; Fun Shoe

Wellp, a new blog post just hit featuring a talk about fighter changes; short of it seems to be that fighters are no longer independent ships but rather "weapons" that are assigned to carriers, take up Ordnance Points like weapons and such, and there been a number of related UI changes related to these alterations.

Could be pretty neat.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 00:58

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

The idea of turning fighters into missiles only moreso is super cool and I now totally want to play a carrier as a flagship.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 01:09

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of near-unlimited fighters, though, as I usually try to knock out the enemy's swarms near the the beginning of a fight. Of course I'm sure if it's broken on release it'll be fixed in a patch or two. That's just how Alex rolls.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 01:17

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Mordja posted:

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of near-unlimited fighters, though, as I usually try to knock out the enemy's swarms near the the beginning of a fight. Of course I'm sure if it's broken on release it'll be fixed in a patch or two. That's just how Alex rolls.

A fleet with sufficient carriers already has effectively unlimited fighters.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 01:42

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

Not if you smash the entire wing in one fell sweep! :black101:

# ? Aug 25, 2016 01:45

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

dis astranagant posted:

A fleet with sufficient carriers already has effectively unlimited fighters.

Not really. Even Diable Avionics fleets can be ground down with good fighter defence. It�s the only way to deal with them, IMO.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 02:09

Prav: Oct 29, 2011

not sure that's the best example, DA have low replacement counts as a pretty explicit downside to their otherwise very powerful fighters. exception rather than rule and whatnot.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 02:13

scuba school sucks: Aug 30, 2012; The brilliance of my posting illuminates the forums like a jar of shining gold when all around is dark

I wonder if the Proximity Bomb is going to lose its ammo count.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 02:17

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Prav posted:

not sure that's the best example, DA have low replacement counts as a pretty explicit downside to their otherwise very powerful fighters. exception rather than rule and whatnot.

You�re not wrong, but no one else brings anywhere near as many carriers, or has fighters threatening enough I feel I need to attrit them.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 02:17

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Mordja posted:

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of near-unlimited fighters, though, as I usually try to knock out the enemy's swarms near the the beginning of a fight. Of course I'm sure if it's broken on release it'll be fixed in a patch or two. That's just how Alex rolls.

I think the idea is that fighters cease to be an all or nothing thing, you shouldn't really have swarms that you can disable by knocking out the initial volley, rather they shouldn't deploy them unless they're going to be effective and if you do successfully knock a wave out, they're down for a while but can rebuild after a bit.

It's going to be interesting to have fighters be a threat all through the battle as well as having more reason to pack good PD.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 10:37

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Could I have some advice on how to manage supply attrition? I'm a newbie who picked up the game yesterday, and I've escaped the beginning area with a nice 4-5 ship fleet, but now I can't go anywhere without running out of supplies and desperately scrounging up some, or spending all of my bounties on 'em.

Should I mothball most of my fleet? Start attacking Hegemony mooks? Get a mod that rebalances it, maybe? Help!

# ? Aug 26, 2016 06:59

John_A_Tallon: Nov 22, 2000; Oh my! Check out that mitre!

Don't use your entire fleet for every engagement, unless the engagement really does call for the entire fleet.
You will need to buy supplies from somewhere at some point. It's better to plan ahead, buy supplies when they are cheap, and store them for later use.
High tech ships can be a real pain in the supply chain, but if used right the bounties you take in with them will more than make up for the expense. When you're getting started it can be a really heavy burden. Take a good look at what you're doing and how you're doing it. Will a Lasher serve where you're using a Wolf? Do you need a carrier and fighters, or can you get by with a drone ship? Those kinds of questions can only be answered by you, but they're worth really considering.
Wandering into hazards like storms, solar flares, and solar corona will wreck your ships and force your supply use through the ceiling. Avoid them when possible.
The logistics skill will help with supply use, but unless you're really hurting or are getting ready to upgrade to a much bigger fleet, it's something best left until your growth in other, more interesting and survival-related, skills is better.
Boosting will eat up supplies too, but sometimes it'll be cheaper to boost and catch an enemy than spend extra time chasing them down the slow way. You'll get a feel for the break-even point with play.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 07:16

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

John_A_Tallon posted:

Don't use your entire fleet for every engagement, unless the engagement really does call for the entire fleet.

You will need to buy supplies from somewhere at some point. It's better to plan ahead, buy supplies when they are cheap, and store them for later use.

High tech ships can be a real pain in the supply chain, but if used right the bounties you take in with them will more than make up for the expense. When you're getting started it can be a really heavy burden. Take a good look at what you're doing and how you're doing it. Will a Lasher serve where you're using a Wolf? Do you need a carrier and fighters, or can you get by with a drone ship? Those kinds of questions can only be answered by you, but they're worth really considering.

Wandering into hazards like storms, solar flares, and solar corona will wreck your ships and force your supply use through the ceiling. Avoid them when possible.

The logistics skill will help with supply use, but unless you're really hurting or are getting ready to upgrade to a much bigger fleet, it's something best left until your growth in other, more interesting and survival-related, skills is better.

Boosting will eat up supplies too, but sometimes it'll be cheaper to boost and catch an enemy than spend extra time chasing them down the slow way. You'll get a feel for the break-even point with play.

A godsend. Thank you!

# ? Aug 26, 2016 07:31

Jinx: Sep 9, 2001; Violence and Bloodshed

OwlFancier posted:

I think the idea is that fighters cease to be an all or nothing thing, you shouldn't really have swarms that you can disable by knocking out the initial volley, rather they shouldn't deploy them unless they're going to be effective and if you do successfully knock a wave out, they're down for a while but can rebuild after a bit.

It's going to be interesting to have fighters be a threat all through the battle as well as having more reason to pack good PD.

Fighters have always been a threat in their current form. The basic point is - individually fighter squadrons are not that good (except Sekrets). Combined arms become very powerful - having a squadron of interceptors cover your Desinova is crucial (especially against later in the game, or if you're up against DA). Using your frigate to disract and provide cover for heavy fighters or torpedo bombers allows you to take on larger vessels earlier in the game.

Maybe if the way fleet command and command points worked wasn't so awkward, it would be easier to use them more effectively.

John_A_Tallon posted:

Don't use your entire fleet for every engagement, unless the engagement really does call for the entire fleet.

You will need to buy supplies from somewhere at some point. It's better to plan ahead, buy supplies when they are cheap, and store them for later use.

High tech ships can be a real pain in the supply chain, but if used right the bounties you take in with them will more than make up for the expense. When you're getting started it can be a really heavy burden. Take a good look at what you're doing and how you're doing it. Will a Lasher serve where you're using a Wolf? Do you need a carrier and fighters, or can you get by with a drone ship? Those kinds of questions can only be answered by you, but they're worth really considering.

Wandering into hazards like storms, solar flares, and solar corona will wreck your ships and force your supply use through the ceiling. Avoid them when possible.

The logistics skill will help with supply use, but unless you're really hurting or are getting ready to upgrade to a much bigger fleet, it's something best left until your growth in other, more interesting and survival-related, skills is better.

Boosting will eat up supplies too, but sometimes it'll be cheaper to boost and catch an enemy than spend extra time chasing them down the slow way. You'll get a feel for the break-even point with play.

It's really useful to get a hound or similar throw away with good cargo space so you can haul loot and supplies around. It makes the early game much less expensive (where the bottleneck is cash and supplies, not fuel). Personally I like to get a destroyer based carrier ASAP - put a couple of missiles on it and get a couple of squadrons of cheap fighters (preferably not talons, not really worth the supplies). It depends what mods you have though.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 07:37

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Jinx posted:

Fighters have always been a threat in their current form. The basic point is - individually fighter squadrons are not that good (except Sekrets). Combined arms become very powerful - having a squadron of interceptors cover your Desinova is crucial (especially against later in the game, or if you're up against DA). Using your frigate to disract and provide cover for heavy fighters or torpedo bombers allows you to take on larger vessels earlier in the game.

Maybe if the way fleet command and command points worked wasn't so awkward, it would be easier to use them more effectively.

It's really useful to get a hound or similar throw away with good cargo space so you can haul loot and supplies around. It makes the early game much less expensive (where the bottleneck is cash and supplies, not fuel). Personally I like to get a destroyer based carrier ASAP - put a couple of missiles on it and get a couple of squadrons of cheap fighters (preferably not talons, not really worth the supplies). It depends what mods you have though.

If only the Gemini wasn't such a slow burner.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 07:49

Unreal_One: Aug 18, 2010; Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.

One thing the fighters-as-weapons does, that I hadn't seen discussed here, is make the 25 ship limit less crippling for carrier groups.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 20:34

cl_gibcount 9999: Aug 15, 2002

but then I guess you can't run one cheap carrier for several fighter groups anymore

oh well, more enforcers!

# ? Aug 27, 2016 01:28

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

Unreal_One posted:

One thing the fighters-as-weapons does, that I hadn't seen discussed here, is make the 25 ship limit less crippling for carrier groups.

It also means the dumb fighters having a burn speed is gone. Now fighters are actually going to get carried both from a fleet composition view (like they used when Hangar space was a stat) and a strategic movement view. And fighter officers aren't going to be weird as hell to implement because there wasn't a way to "assign" wings to specific carriers. Now it's easy - fighter controllers sit on their carrier officer slot and affect every wing that carrier uses.

The infinite fighters thing is just like the infinite ballistics ammo thing. It just means it's easier to balance and more mechanics tie into CR - the same reason infinite missiles also work when their re-arm rate is chosen well enough.

Wish the "regroup-Engage" toggle was per squadron though so you can call back depleted squadrons or send out a few wings to escort while keeping some in reserve.

DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 27, 2016

# ? Aug 27, 2016 15:34

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Jinx posted:

Fighters have always been a threat in their current form. The basic point is - individually fighter squadrons are not that good (except Sekrets). Combined arms become very powerful - having a squadron of interceptors cover your Desinova is crucial (especially against later in the game, or if you're up against DA). Using your frigate to disract and provide cover for heavy fighters or torpedo bombers allows you to take on larger vessels earlier in the game.

Maybe if the way fleet command and command points worked wasn't so awkward, it would be easier to use them more effectively.

They're not bad, they're just not very good for their cost, and facing them on the opposing side is not really what I would call a threat given that they are easily swatted in the opening stage of a fight and carriers just trickle them out slowly for the rest of the match. There's nothing a fighter can do that a frigate can't do better.

Reworking them to not cost anything and to come in waves will help them significantly.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 18:18

Tarezax: Sep 12, 2009; MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

OwlFancier posted:

They're not bad, they're just not very good for their cost, and facing them on the opposing side is not really what I would call a threat given that they are easily swatted in the opening stage of a fight and carriers just trickle them out slowly for the rest of the match. There's nothing a fighter can do that a frigate can't do better.

Reworking them to not cost anything and to come in waves will help them significantly.

Can't wait to drown enemy frigates in a wave of 50 lovely Dipteron fighters

# ? Aug 27, 2016 18:23

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I want fighters that kamikaze if they get too damaged.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 18:45

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

Tarezax posted:

Can't wait to drown enemy frigates in a wave of 50 lovely Dipteron fighters

God I hope the rework means some of the drone skills get reworked too. Sheperd frigates would be so much better if they had a built-in unreplacable drone squadron with limited-by-carrier-mechanics instead of a fixed count. And the same for the high-tech frigate with the absurd terminator drone, that for some reason can be rebuilt an unlimited number of times by a frigate, despite being more packed with high tech gizmos than anything else not in a mod.

Irreplaceble squadron would be a great fit for all the drone abilities really.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 19:57

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

The tempest and its terminator drone is supposed to be a bit of a super ship. It would probably be better if it was costed more like a destroyer.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 20:04

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

OwlFancier posted:

The tempest and its terminator drone is supposed to be a bit of a super ship. It would probably be better if it was costed more like a destroyer.

It's not even the cost, it's the concept. No matter how super your tech, how is a frigate building something with enough gear and stats to usually need a frigate body all to itself - in infinite quantities? While still packing fantastic stats and weapons itself in addition to the crazy drone factory. When even destroyer sized ships like the Gemini can't even endlessly replicate vulcan guns with engines?

If you could buy terminator drone squadrons, they'd be hands down the most expensive and CR heavy squadron in the game (they'd make a great end-game tech for Tri-Tachyon and their supercarriers).

# ? Aug 27, 2016 23:21

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

So what has replaced SS+/Nexelrin? I keep on getting errors about the baseship apparently when I try to run them.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 23:36

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Taerkar posted:

So what has replaced SS+/Nexelrin? I keep on getting errors about the baseship apparently when I try to run them.

SS+ split into Dynasector and about a dozen related mods.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 00:14

MesoTroniK: May 20, 2014

Taerkar posted:

So what has replaced SS+/Nexelrin? I keep on getting errors about the baseship apparently when I try to run them.

Remove NGO from your mod list.

And still use SS+, I recommend looking at the recommended mods list in the THI thread. Get all those, and all the faction mods that are listed on the Dynasector thread as well.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 04:25

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

DatonKallandor posted:

It's not even the cost, it's the concept. No matter how super your tech, how is a frigate building something with enough gear and stats to usually need a frigate body all to itself - in infinite quantities? While still packing fantastic stats and weapons itself in addition to the crazy drone factory. When even destroyer sized ships like the Gemini can't even endlessly replicate vulcan guns with engines?

If you could buy terminator drone squadrons, they'd be hands down the most expensive and CR heavy squadron in the game (they'd make a great end-game tech for Tri-Tachyon and their supercarriers).

*shrug* it's a space game set after the collapse of society so that nobody really understands the technology any more but they have automated factories to produce it. It's basically warhammer 40k archeotech, if the imperium tried inventing things using some of their tech they'd win easily, but nobody understands it so they can't.

Same goes for the weird ultra-high-tech frigate which is way better than anything else but only works the specific way it's programmed.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 16:11

scuba school sucks: Aug 30, 2012; The brilliance of my posting illuminates the forums like a jar of shining gold when all around is dark

Just browsing the official forums, it turns out that the Dickerson overpopulation wasn't just confirmation bias, there was some kind of bug making there be way more Dickersons than there should have been. So the next release won't have you fighting pirate captains named "Alotta Dickerson", "Anita Dickerson", "Hugh Dickerson", back to back to back anymore.

I'll probably still play the new release though.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 02:26

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

We need a Dickerson faction. Much like the Horatio faction in Endless.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:23

McGiggins: Apr 4, 2014; by R. Guyovich; Lipstick Apathy

Uninstalled game, installed new version, downloaded mods, did the vmparams and java thing, and now it doesn't run at all.

Watched install guide in op, and did everything there.

Anyone else had a similar problem?

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:44

MesoTroniK: May 20, 2014

If literally nothing at all is happening when you try to start the game. The most likely issue is that you made some sort of mistake when replacing the included JRE with a 64 bit one.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 06:24

McGiggins: Apr 4, 2014; by R. Guyovich; Lipstick Apathy

Will purge everything and try once again.

It wouldn't be the first time java has gotten the better of me, haha.

E: The forum post he references in his video shows the xms and xmm fields being edited from 1024m to 4g, instead of 4096m. I supposed java doesn't accept abstraction and requires exact values?

Seems to be working now, none the less.

McGiggins fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Sep 10, 2016

# ? Sep 10, 2016 06:57

Lowen: Mar 16, 2007; Adorable.

McGiggins posted:

Uninstalled game, installed new version, downloaded mods, did the vmparams and java thing, and now it doesn't run at all.

Watched install guide in op, and did everything there.

Anyone else had a similar problem?

I've run into and fixed the same problem in the past. Most likely you did something to the vmparams that's just slightly off. Now I always back that file up before changing it.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 16:16

Iceshade: Sep 15, 2007; Tactical Ignorance

Delivered a package to Uranus Dickerson. FYI.

Also, I haven't played in a year or so. The detection mechanics have really made it harder it seems. I lost count of the number of pirate fleets that seemingly pop out of nowhere and attack me (even with transponder off, and they're dark). The massive fleets that also burn at level 9 and are pretty hard to get away from. There was a lot of frustration until I got a bunch of decent ships to defend myself with, let me tell you this.

On the other hand, I was being chased by some fuckos, took off my transponder, went dark close to an asteroid belt and hid in it until they passed. 8-) That made me feel pretty good.

Brainbread posted:

I keep trying to come back to the game but it feels impossible for me. The start is so rough and I've been ambushed so many times by fleets faster than me.

I think I've logged maybe two hours since he put out the update to Transponders and all that. I miss the old version. :/

I guess pretty much what this guy said. The start is rough as gently caress, as I experienced it.

Iceshade fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Sep 11, 2016

# ? Sep 11, 2016 10:48

The Chad Jihad: Feb 24, 2007

Yeah I was worried the transponder stuff would be a drag, and it could still use some tinkering, but overall it works pretty well and it's cool to sidle up to a pirate moon and ping sensors to see what kind of hornets nest comes raging out.

Really the only bad part about it is that it's a stumbling block for newbies since you need to "get" it to be successful and it looks more complex than it is

# ? Sep 11, 2016 11:42

Nosre: Apr 16, 2002

Looking for a good point to jump back into this after a long while - we due for a release anytime soon? Looks like Feb was the last one so it's been a while.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 13:55

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 09:54

Iceshade: Sep 15, 2007; Tactical Ignorance

If I read the forums correctly, the people over there are expecting a new update soon. I don't know what soon means in Starsector, because the guy develops at a very slow, but steady, pace. Then come the hotfixes and various smaller updates and mod updates.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 17:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Starsector - Waste no part of the Buffalo II [Preorder Alpha]

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