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How is the music in Berseria? Is it good or bad?
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Sep 5, 2016 03:06
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Junpei posted:Okay, I'm sort of curious about something. Does anyone here have any interesting ideas for a gameplay mechanic for the next tales game? Pure speculation and ideas, just asking out of curiosity and hope that Nam-Ban is reading (but I know they aren't). I think I mentioned before but I want to see a less aggressive system again - Rebirth's rush gauge comes to mind, and I'd honestly like to see that one specifically modernized. Berseria is following CC's and AC's footsteps with crazy hit chains that feed more action points into themselves, which is fun (and, frankly, appropriate to the tone this time), but it takes over the system and it's been the theme of like the last four non-Z games. Do a system where the defend cycle is a thing. This doesn't mean TP, Rebirth proved you don't need TP to enforce a combat rhythm. (Zestiria had a rhythm but it did it by simply forcing you to wait; Rebirth's magic was making it a hard choice to go hot or cold, but never really forcing you.) And actually I think that a system like that would actually work well with the new Planar paradigm. Berseria is practically a Warriors game, but I'm sure there are other ways to make positioning and areas a thing. Maybe make back attacks a core mechanic. Keep stepping because it's fun, but it doesn't need to be part of a system where you're meant to wring 30 attacks out of a series of consecutive crits without stopping. Not because I hate it, but because if I want to do it I can start up Destiny, Graces, Xillia 2, or Berseria, and that'll do fine for the next several years. And while we're at it, I kind of want them to stop making systems where I feel like I have to ignore Gels. Caphi fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 03:09
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TheKingofSprings posted:How is the music in Berseria? Is it good or bad? It's Sakuraba's best work in years, but Sakuraba's solo work has never been fantastic in the Tales series. All of Abyss's best tracks were composed by Bump of Chicken's guitarist, not Sakuraba. (except awkward justice. Awkward Justice was all Sakuraba. Points for that.) Berseria's OST is mostly fine, and there's a few standout tracks in the more incidental music, like the character themes. Velvet and Magilou's especially. Outside of that, it's fine. Nowhere near as dire as Xillia 1. It's about as good as you're going to get from Sakuraba solo composing a tales game.
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Sep 5, 2016 03:11
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Velvet's theme is basically two good themes in one track, also.
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Sep 5, 2016 03:14
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@Caphi: Would you like to keep character-specific gimmicks like in Xillia and Berseria? How exactly would this balance work? Maybe it could be like some sort of scale (the weighing kind). Where if it tips one way or the other you get specific bonuses but also penalties? Tactical (play smartly, dodge attacks, hit weaknesses)/ Savage (hit hard, long combos) Defensive (heal, block, buff)/ Offensive (combo, cast spells) Just thinking out loud.
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Sep 5, 2016 06:07
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Endorph posted:bring back narikiri dolls
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Sep 5, 2016 14:33
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Junpei posted:@Caphi: Would you like to keep character-specific gimmicks like in Xillia and Berseria? How exactly would this balance work? I've had this in the back of my mind for a bit but first let's level set on Rebirth because I think it's good. First of all, Rebirth pioneered the concept Zestiria and Berseria use where there aren't real healing spells. (Footnote: I think this alarmed a lot of people when Zestiria introduced it to the English playerbase, like Graces and CC.) Instead you do all your healing through a phenomenon called Force Regen, in which each arte heals you for some HP when it connects. This is affected by a few things, like being blocked and cooldown and the Force Cube, and it's also part of arte balance - each arte has a transparent HP Regen number. Broadly, if you can't handle regen, Annie can't help you. (Annie's Glyphs are also a thing Zestiria tried to recapture, I think, since they're buffs with individual status curing on the side.) The way Force Regen is different from Berseria, where you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as you can stun and Break Soul reliably, is because of Rebirth's Rush Gauge. To put it very simply, the Rush Gauge is momentum. It goes up as you attack and down as you defend. When it's up, you do more damage, take more damage, heal less, and can use more artes. When it's down, you do and take less and heal more. Interesting things happen at the ends but they're not important right now. So when you put that together with FG, you get an obvious sliding scale of aggression. If you don't use Arcane Artes, you can have an FG available most of the time. If you press as hard as you can, you can find yourself on several long FG cooldowns and with no guarantee of your HP. You can usually try to take a break and attack to get your FG back or defend to reduce your Rush. You can use Base Artes on cooldown slots for moving and stunning and stuff, but they don't regenerate HP if you do (among other things) and it resets the FG. Sometimes you want to hold back an Arte slot to use defensively (it heals a lot, or reduces Rush, or something). In fact, there's a category of Boost Artes which you can bind instead of an attack, which are not attacks and have long cooldowns and cannot be used for an Arcane Arte, drastically reducing your attack options - but they categorically tank your RG, heal, and apply a buff as well, so it's a good idea to equip one to improve your survivability, and glass cannon characters (Tytree and Mao specifically) benefit a lot from that. On the flip side, if you have spent some time trying to heal up, or just blocked a lot, it takes a little bit of effort to get back to the point where you can do an Arcane Arte. Of course, there's also peach gels, if you need them. It's all percentage-based so they're perfectly reliable. But if you attack smartly, you need fewer of them. So that's Rebirth. It does really strong attack/defend cycling without simply paralyzing you by making HP a thing over time and then allowing you to short it for damage, at a rate of your choosing, and giving you tools to adjust that rate. (On the side, it also limits artes on a turn-by-turn basis, rather than abstractly like TP, and accomplishes everything TP with short chains is supposed to without vats of Orange Gels, other than HP/TP attrition, which has never been interesting.) Caphi fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 16:04
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I finished the Stairway to Heaven (on Normal, gently caress it). The metaplot sure is basically just Xillia 2 again. I don't think I'm especially interested in seeing it continue after all.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:01
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Caphi posted:I finished the Stairway to Heaven (on Normal, gently caress it). What is that, the bonus dungeon for Tales of Bersaria... Berseria... B?
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Sep 5, 2016 23:19
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https://twitter.com/AbyssalC/status/772977665980497920
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Sep 6, 2016 03:05
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I have a weird relationship with the Tales series where I always get moderately excited for the new ones, play 30-40% of the way into them, and then get annoyed at something or other and quit. I never get more than minimally competent at the battle systems - usually just play the MC but I've been working to fix that - but it's enough for the main game. The only two Tales games I've actually completed are Symphonia and Vesperia (which I only played two years ago and loved), and technically ToSII but that was awful. I dropped Graces, because I can't spend 60 hours with writing that bad, and stalled on Xillia for no particular reason. I do plan to go back for it and Xillia 2 but I don't know when I'll ever find the time. I'm not sure whether I want to go back to Zestiria because some parts of it really annoy me, like two forced party members and mono-element casters as second-class party members. I'm still bitter over the alisha bait and switch; I went in completely blind and liked playing as her. To fix my problems of dropping games I've started on Abyss instead of going back to X or Z and I can't help but find myself getting excited for Berseria. I've got problems.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:48
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I had more fun listening to the Zestiria soundtrack on youtube than actually playing Zestiria but i can be a cynic
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Sep 6, 2016 06:50
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Abyss is good. You will probably want to beat it all at once unlike ToX or ToZ. It's my second favorite after Vesperia.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:05
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Berseria worth being excited about? Note that I thought that Zesteria looked like complete dogshit and had literally 0 interest in it.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:10
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Paul Zuvella posted:Berseria worth being excited about? Note that I thought that Zesteria looked like complete dogshit and had literally 0 interest in it. I'm excited for it and haven't played a Tales since the Abyss port and that's the second I've played I think so
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Sep 6, 2016 17:32
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Enjoying the English voices in Abyss, but the lack of voices and slow scrolling text in the skits are killing me. Any opinions on the Japanese voices?
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Sep 7, 2016 00:11
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Were the skits in vesperia voiced? I don't remember actually
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Sep 7, 2016 00:16
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Paul Zuvella posted:Berseria worth being excited about? Note that I thought that Zesteria looked like complete dogshit and had literally 0 interest in it. I imported it and IMO it's really, really good. Characters are great and combat is fun, and the story is pretty good. It has a few mild annoyances but it's nothing that kills the game, just 'i wish you got all the characters quicker' and 'I wish the sidequest stuff was more well integrated.'
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Sep 7, 2016 00:18
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voltcatfish posted:Were the skits in vesperia voiced? I don't remember actually They were voiced and they were perfect. I need to give Abyss another swing one of these days, I tried it years ago and it's probably one of my most hated games. This thread is littered with my shitposting about it.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:17
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Oxxidation posted:They were voiced and they were perfect. Why? A lot of people knock it for technobabble (fonons aren't that complicated) and maybe a hard-to-like party dynamic early game, but otherwise I thought most people liked Abyss. It was my favorite until Graces came out only because I like Graces' combat to the extreme and the Malik/Richard power hour.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:20
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THE DANIELNATOR posted:Enjoying the English voices in Abyss, but the lack of voices and slow scrolling text in the skits are killing me. Any opinions on the Japanese voices? They're good solely on the basis of dubbed scripts. they're also good on their own merits (koyasu jade)
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Sep 7, 2016 00:20
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Abyss is cool but also pretty rough. I like it but only actually finished on my third or so swing at the game.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:23
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Chaotic Flame posted:Why? A lot of people knock it for technobabble (fonons aren't that complicated) and maybe a hard-to-like party dynamic early game, but otherwise I thought most people liked Abyss. It was my favorite until Graces came out only because I like Graces' combat to the extreme and the Malik/Richard power hour. Hated all the characters (Ion and Anise in particular), the voice acting grated, the backstories were inane, the graphics and music were bland, the combat did nothing for me, the script up to where I played revolved around a ton of tedious backtracking and manufactured conflict caused by failures of communication. Part of it was hype backlash because these forums talked it up a lot even back then, but at the time it was easily my least favorite Tales game and pretty near the bottom of all JRPG's I've played.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:32
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Abyss is great. My only problems are the loading times, voiceless skits, and there not really being a reason to ever use anybody but Guy
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Sep 7, 2016 00:32
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Oh yeah, does Berseria still block recording like 99% of the game? Or did only localized Zestiria do that? Because that was lame as gently caress.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:34
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I'm playing the abyss undub myself. There's a definite trade-off between understanding the end of battle banter and voiced skits for people like me. The gameplay in abyss is definitely dated by modern tales standards though. I'm not sure who I'll try to play.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:41
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Oxxidation posted:Hated all the characters (Ion and Anise in particular), the voice acting grated, the backstories were inane, the graphics and music were bland, the combat did nothing for me, the script up to where I played revolved around a ton of tedious backtracking and manufactured conflict caused by failures of communication. Part of it was hype backlash because these forums talked it up a lot even back then, but at the time it was easily my least favorite Tales game and pretty near the bottom of all JRPG's I've played.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:42
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Endorph posted:conflict caused by failures of communication is extremely true to life and not manufactured at all, imo. It's true to life but it's bad writing. It doesn't help that Luke is (justifiably) an unlikable twerp for a good chunk of the game, so most of the side cast hates him too and that just makes the whole party's chemistry this unpleasant trudge until he gets his haircut. Vesperia was great because Yuri was great and made everyone else great by proxy. I think I finally hung it up when I got spoiled on the reason for Guy's gynophobia. It was such a silly grimdark excuse for such an awful gimmick. e: actually now that I think back on it, all the characters' gimmicks were kind of unbearable. Luke at least had a consistent arc, but Tear just monotoned "so cute" at anything nearby, Anise liked money (I think?) for some tragic reason, Guy yelped and cringed away at ladies, Jade was factory-grade snarky at everything. This is why I should probably give it another go, all I seem to remember is the worst bits. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 00:44
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how? no, really, i dont get how it's bad writing. Characters have motivations and act according to those motivations, which includes withholding information from the other characters because they don't trust them. it's good writing. edit: also tear's cute thing comes up like. four times total. also jade is great.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:46
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Oxxidation posted:It's true to life but it's bad writing. Being able to emulate real life in a fantasy setting is good writing imo It's fair to say that it's writing that you don't enjoy or you don't play games to deal with real life problems like that, but it shouldn't be something you dismiss offhand
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Sep 7, 2016 00:48
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Endorph posted:how? The cast withholds information from Luke well past the point of reason or sense, which lets Van sucker him into making a part of the world fall away or however that went, which only makes the cast even more pissy at Luke for events they themselves caused. None of these people acted like friends for the first stretch of the game, they were just badly acted sacks of cliches forced to exist in the same general space as each other and it got tiring for me. It doesn't help that I played it after Vesperia, which for all its other faults had one of the most likable casts in the series. Even Rita is a joy and she's got exactly two personality traits, "I'm smart" and "gently caress you." Motto posted:They got disgusted with Luke for throwing a tantrum where he denies any culpability for his actions. And rightly so! Everyone who knew better kept him in the dark so he went by the word of the not-at-all suspicious guy he grew up with. When the literal overgrown seven-year old is showing more self-awareness than the rest of the cast you've got some problems. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 00:49
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They get disgusted with Luke for throwing a tantrum where he denies any culpability for his actions.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:50
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Oxxidation posted:The cast withholds information from Luke well past the point of reason or sense, which lets Van sucker him into making a part of the world fall away or however that went, which only makes the cast even more pissy at Luke for events they themselves caused. None of these people acted like friends for the first stretch of the game, they were just badly acted sacks of cliches forced to exist in the same general space as each other and it got tiring for me. They withhold information from Luke because he's a self-centered manchild who'd probably go tattle to Van at the first possible opportunity. Even if they told Luke everything, do you think he'd believe them? No, he'd go run off to Van and things would go exactly the way they went, just without the party being privy to any of it or around to help.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:51
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also, luke is not seven years old.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:53
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Endorph posted:also, luke is not seven years old. Isn't one of the big twists about him supposed to be that he's an artificial human who's only actually been around for seven years or so, explaining most of his mental immaturity?
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Sep 7, 2016 00:56
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Oxxidation posted:Isn't one of the big twists about him supposed to be that he's an artificial human who's only actually been around for seven years or so, explaining most of his mental immaturity? idk where it is, but this comes up often enough that someone made a good rear end post explaining that's not how brains work
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Sep 7, 2016 00:57
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Oxxidation posted:And rightly so! Everyone who knew better kept him in the dark so he went by the word of the not-at-all suspicious guy he grew up with. When the literal overgrown seven-year old is showing more self-awareness than the rest of the cast you've got some problems. Immediately responding to a child's death with self-concerned whining and deflection is bad, imo
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Sep 7, 2016 00:58
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He's been alive for seven years but that doesn't make him seven years old. Your brain grows as your age. He's physically an 18 year old. So in a purely physical sense, he's got the reasoning skills of a (barely) grown man, which means he should be mature enough to take responsibility for his actions. He had to 're'learn how to talk and walk and stuff, but that doesn't the actual functions of his brain, it just changes his life experiences. Like, if you got knocked on the head tomorrow and lost literally every single memory, you wouldn't immediately revert to laying in a cradle and crying for your mom (unless you're into that,) you'd just be an adult who didn't have any experiences to draw from. A lot of a person's reasoning skills are instinctual.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:58
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Oxxidation posted:The cast withholds information from Luke well past the point of reason or sense, which lets Van sucker him into making a part of the world fall away or however that went, which only makes the cast even more pissy at Luke for events they themselves caused. None of these people acted like friends for the first stretch of the game, they were just badly acted sacks of cliches forced to exist in the same general space as each other and it got tiring for me. That makes no sense though. It is a rpg cliche that no matter what backgrounds the characters have, the moment they are in a party together they are the best of friends. The fact that said friendship and trust had to develop through the game was one of the strongest parts of Abyss/
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Sep 7, 2016 01:04
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| # ? May 15, 2024 21:01 |
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People always talk poo poo about how the party's response to Akzeriuth sucks but honestly it really worked for me. Like, it's obvious to the player Luke is freaking the gently caress out and he just can't accept he murdered a town because it would break him, but it's not quite so obvious to the party. Especially, since his response of "I did nothing wrong, I didn't kill anyone, It's not my fault, I don't need to be sorry", is immediately contrasted with Ion apologising for his role in the event and talking about how he needs to take responsibility and make up for it. And anyway the characters who are most hard on Luke are Jade and Anise, who are kinda assholes, so of course they're the ones who'd just treat him like a stuck up brat who won't accept responsibility for his actions. Guy and Tear talk to him about it and admit their own responsibility in the event (which is pretty minor, because it's stuff like "I should have raised you better" or "I should have killed my brother before this") pretty quickly after it goes down. And also it just makes sense to me that every character would be acting emotionally and without too much thought after a town just got wiped off the map. And once Act 2 really begins the person who blames Luke the most is himself, with the characters trying to get him to not be so hard on himself. It works pretty well I thought. Oxxidation posted:Isn't one of the big twists about him supposed to be that he's an artificial human who's only actually been around for seven years or so, explaining most of his mental immaturity? If that was the case Ion would act like a baby, because he's only been around for 2 years. Being a Replica doesn't affect mental maturity or anything and nothing is said to suggest that.
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Sep 7, 2016 01:08
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