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hexenmexen posted:If I believe that business interests and actually promoting growth will reduce inequality versus social welfare that is a justifiable political opinion to have. I live in a state where they're trying to do this your way and it turns out that job growth has been pretty much the worst in the nation and literally everyone agrees it loving sucks
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Sep 18, 2016 15:29
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hexenmexen posted:... I don't see how voting for a third party makes someone stupid. No, see, those opinions are the ones that make us call you stupid. So "growth" inherently reduces inequality? How does that work in relation to the Tulsa Riots, when the growth of the black middle class inspired white people to burn down of of their neighborhoods? How do you reconcile the average 4% economic growth of the 90's with the increased incarceration of African-Americans? Also, which "entitlements" do you see needing to be reformed? You make this vague, hand-wavy idea of people on the dole - what programs are they using and how?
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Sep 18, 2016 15:29
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Lord Hydronium posted:For someone who would be the actual next president if Trump were elected, there really hasn't been nearly enough attention paid to Pence as there should be.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:30
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Mike Pence could be a talking horse and no one would pay him any attention because of the top of the ticket. It's kinda funny because if someone like Jeb! had actually won the nomination and picked Pence as his running mate to placate the extreme right-wing it would have developed into a severe problem for his campaign. But in the Jeb! timeline he probably has his pick of decent VPs from any wing of the party.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:32
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Eschers Basement posted:Also, which "entitlements" do you see needing to be reformed? You make this vague, hand-wavy idea of people on the dole - what programs are they using and how? It's Republican-speak (and I guess Libertarian-speak) for "gut welfare."
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Sep 18, 2016 15:32
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Eschers Basement posted:Also, which "entitlements" do you see needing to be reformed? You make this vague, hand-wavy idea of people on the dole - what programs are they using and how? If it's standard Libertarian thinking in the manner of Ayn Rand, 'Entitlements' that should be cut are any that don't benefit the Libertarian personally, while any they take advantage of are just them being shrewd.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:34
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lozzle posted:It's Republican-speak (and I guess Libertarian-speak) for "gut welfare." Shhhh! We're supposed to make him admit that!
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Sep 18, 2016 15:35
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Antti posted:Mike Pence could be a talking horse and no one would pay him any attention because of the top of the ticket. The Jeb! VP would have been Rubio. Well, that was the plan before he landed that haymaker, anyway.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:35
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Night10194 posted:If it's standard Libertarian thinking in the manner of Ayn Rand, 'Entitlements' that should be cut are any that don't benefit the Libertarian personally, while any they take advantage of are just them being shrewd. Well duh, entitlements are paid for with taxes, and taxation is theft!!1! 
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Sep 18, 2016 15:36
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Night10194 posted:If it's standard Libertarian thinking in the manner of Ayn Rand, 'Entitlements' that should be cut are any that don't benefit the Libertarian personally, while any they take advantage of are just them being shrewd. As I recall, Luntz invented the term to frame any spending the Republicans don't like in a negative light. It's literally a focus grouped buzzword.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:39
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hexenmexen, if we're being tough on you, it's only because you're an rear end in a top hat. If you admitted you just want to keep more of your tax dollars and tell society to gently caress off, I think we agree to disagree. It's only when you try to claim that your ideas are a net social good, that somehow letting CEOs and the upper class pay lower taxes will be inherently beneficial to all, maybe especially to poor black people, that we laugh at you and tell you to gently caress off.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:40
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So is the NYPD gonna have a press conference or something because the news hasn't changed since basically midnight.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So is the NYPD gonna have a press conference or something because the news hasn't changed since basically midnight. Look, sometimes in NYC people put bombs in dumpsters and they explode. You just kind of roll with it.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:42
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TheScott2K posted:The Jeb! VP would have been Rubio. Well, that was the plan before he landed that haymaker, anyway. Sad part is, I think that would have been an astute choice for whoever won. I think Rubio has the makings of a competent GOP presidential nominee, he just needs more seasoning and a VP slot would be a good way to do it. Plus Hispanic and Florida points.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:47
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hexenmexen what's it like being cryogenically frozen since the 1980's?
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Sep 18, 2016 15:48
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Cythereal posted:Sad part is, I think that would have been an astute choice for whoever won. I think Rubio has the makings of a competent GOP presidential nominee, he just needs more seasoning and a VP slot would be a good way to do it. Plus Hispanic and Florida points. I think Rubio was trying to get into the White House before the hair loss monster caught him.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:49
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Instant Sunrise posted:hexenmexen what's it like being cryogenically frozen since the 1980's? It probably sucks, since we haven't actually cured boneitis yet.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:50
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I live a mile or two from the mall in MN where the knife attack happened, and work about a block away from it. Didn't know anything had happened until I clocked in at work last night and found out our store had been on lockdown an hour and a half earlier. sup Crossroads buddy. Mentioned the stabbings at breakfast to my parents (who live about a half hour away) and my dad immediately said: bet it was the Somalis fighting.  (this is why I live in Boston)
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Sep 18, 2016 15:51
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Eschers Basement posted:hexenmexen, if we're being tough on you, it's only because you're an rear end in a top hat. If you admitted you just want to keep more of your tax dollars and tell society to gently caress off, I think we agree to disagree. It's only when you try to claim that your ideas are a net social good, that somehow letting CEOs and the upper class pay lower taxes will be inherently beneficial to all, maybe especially to poor black people, that we laugh at you and tell you to gently caress off. Well you have to have growth alongside of enforcing equality in the workplace, and continual reform of the prison system. The prisons expanded under the previous Clinton years and I'm supposed to believe the woman who mouthed "super predators" is genuinely interested in prison reform? The entitlements I'm talking about are Social Security and government based pensions. Taxes are essential, but they need to be spent on actual infrastructure that will increase overall prosperity. Spend it on K-12 instead of free college (and you get a degree and you get a degree). The fact is our Corporate tax rate is higher than more socially welfare states based like Sweden and Ireland. hexenmexen fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 15:51
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hexenmexen posted:If I believe that business interests and actually promoting growth will reduce inequality versus social welfare that is a justifiable political opinion to have. You're not a fan of Bush's policies but you want to double down on Bush's tax cuts and deregulation. Are you even old enough to remember the Bush years.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:54
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hexenmexen posted:Well you have to have growth alongside of enforcing equality in the workplace, and continual reform of the prison system. The prisons expanded under the previous Clinton years and I'm supposed to believe the woman who mouthed "super predators" is genuinely interested in prison reform? You know people's opinions can change over 20-30 years right? I mean, except for yours, obviously.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:55
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hexenmexen posted:The entitlements I'm talking about are Social Security and government based pensions. "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." - Dwight D. Eisenhower You would have a better chance of repealing the Civil Rights Act (which you fuckers actually want to do  ) than abolishing Social Security. It is extremely popular with both parties.
lozzle fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 15:56
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hexenmexen posted:
No. http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/ http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending
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Sep 18, 2016 15:58
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hexenmexen posted:Well you have to have growth alongside of enforcing equality in the workplace, and continual reform of the prison system. The prisons expanded under the previous Clinton years and I'm supposed to believe the woman who mouthed "super predators" is genuinely interested in prison reform? How will infrastructure increase overall prosperity? Say we expand high-speed internet to every corner of the country, fix our aging grid and water systems where they need it and expand rail and highways. How does that actually result in additional prosperity past the initial stimulus period provided by a massive government make-work program? After the infrastructure is in place how is it going to increase prosperity if there is no additional commerce? The mere existence of infrastructure doesn't mean it will be utilized and any gain brought about by government spending on the retrofits will only provide benefits for so long, as history has shown. Also, it's hilarious you think college is anywhere near free and, seemingly, that it makes degrees useless when more people have them, as if the only value in a college degree is to get a job.
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Sep 18, 2016 15:59
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hexenmexen posted:The fact is our Corporate tax rate is higher than more socially welfare states based like Sweden and Ireland. I make $75,000 a year and support a family of 3 on it. My kid goes to public school, both cars are paid off, the mortgage gets paid every month, and we contribute to a 529 for our kid's college and a 401k for retirement. There is, at most, $100 left over at the end of the month, and most of our cash savings are the result of windfalls. How much more am I paying in taxes to make up for the loss of revenue from reducing the corporate tax rate, and what am I shortchanging to pay those additional taxes? TheScott2K fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 16:00
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hexenmexen posted:Spend it on K-12 instead of free college (and you get a degree and you get a degree). Gary Johnson wants to abolish the Department of Education
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Sep 18, 2016 16:01
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Just go to the libertarian thread, hexenmexen. They would love to have you
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Sep 18, 2016 16:03
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hexenmexen posted:The fact is our Corporate tax rate is higher than more socially welfare states based like Sweden and Ireland. You know those 40,000 pages of IRS code that the GOP loves to harp on? That's all of those corporate exemptions that go to make the effective tax rate in the US actually very low. You idiot. By the way, I find my MBA classes fascinating in that I can see why otherwise progressive people can get sucked into a bubble in large corporations through no real fault of their own. A LOT of incentives that don't necessarily hold with political ideals.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:06
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hexenmexen posted:Well you have to have growth alongside of enforcing equality in the workplace And how does Gary Johnson propose to do that? quote:and continual reform of the prison system. The prisons expanded under the previous Clinton years and I'm supposed to believe the woman who mouthed "super predators" is genuinely interested in prison reform? As opposed to Gary Johnson, who literally made New Mexico the most dependent state on privatized prison? quote:The entitlements I'm talking about are Social Security and government based pensions. Taxes are essential, but they need to be spent on actual infrastructure that will increase overall prosperity. Hahahahaha what? "Pensions"? Thats your huge expense to be trimmed? quote:Spend it on K-12 instead of free college (and you get a degree and you get a degree). So we should nationalize grammar school spending and curriculums? Hey, about your candidate.... quote:The fact is our Corporate tax rate is higher than more socially welfare states based like Sweden and Ireland. And our income tax is much, much, much lower. Yet somehow you don't see that as a problem.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:09
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torgeaux posted:No. http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/ But you still didn't address Ireland, and with a flat reform of the tax code close the loopholes and change it to territorial instead of worldwide. lozzle posted:"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." - Dwight D. Eisenhower Are you illiterate? Is that why you quote a Republican to misrepresent what I said? KiteAuraan posted:How will infrastructure increase overall prosperity? Say we expand high-speed internet to every corner of the country, fix our aging grid and water systems where they need it and expand rail and highways. How does that actually result in additional prosperity past the initial stimulus period provided by a massive government make-work program? After the infrastructure is in place how is it going to increase prosperity if there is no additional commerce? The mere existence of infrastructure doesn't mean it will be utilized and any gain brought about by government spending on the retrofits will only provide benefits for so long, as history has shown. Improved infrastructure, and improved K-12 would incentivize employers to return to the US. Many communities particularly black ones don't have access to the developed parts of metropolitan parts of cities. This was due to local governments shutting them out. Making broad infrastructure repairs would make it more affordable for business to operate in the US. This in combination with the reformed tax issue would bring growth to the US.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:09
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hexenmexen posted:Are you illiterate? Is that why you quote a Republican to misrepresent what I said? Are you retarded? Is that why you think you can abolish a program supported by nearly 90% of Americans?
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Sep 18, 2016 16:12
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So all the NYC wounded are out of the hospital. The gov is calling it "terrorism" but not "international terrorism." My guess is white guy.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:12
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hexenmexen posted:But you still didn't address Ireland, and with a flat reform of the tax code close the loopholes and change it to territorial instead of worldwide. This person is allowed to vote lmao
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Sep 18, 2016 16:13
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hexenmexen posted:Improved infrastructure, and improved K-12 would incentivize employers to return to the US. Many communities particularly black ones don't have access to the developed parts of metropolitan parts of cities. This was due to local governments shutting them out. Making broad infrastructure repairs would make it more affordable for business to operate in the US. That is HIGHLY suspect. With the modern globalized economy employers, particularly production, which is what left a lot of those communities, are going where labor is cheapest, not taxes and not where infrastructure is the best. They are almost certainly never coming back to the United States unless we accept the same unlivable low wages of the Periphery and Semi-Periphery. An increase in service industry jobs is not going to last forever, and that's likely what would see some growth. The employers who left are never coming back.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:15
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So all the NYC wounded are out of the hospital. The gov is calling it "terrorism" but not "international terrorism." Which means the story will be quickly buried since the Republicans can't use a racist boogeyman.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:18
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Oh nooo the United States's corporate tax rate is nominally higher than that of a corporate tax haven whose entire economy is based around letting multinational corporations headquarter there to dodge taxes in other countries.
vyelkin fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 16:19
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MizPiz posted:That's not entirely true. US servicemen committed many war crimes during WW2, including executing POWs, committing rapes and even using it as a tactic, and taking pieces of an enemy combatant's body as a trophy. And that's not even mentioning the fact we put over 100,000 people into camps. He said we didn't need to torture anyone. It wasn't official policy to torture anyone, and interrogations of high-ranking Nazis re: things like their missile programs didn't involve torture, yet they yielded a lot of valuable information.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:25
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vyelkin posted:Oh nooo the United States's corporate tax rate is nominally higher than that of a corporate tax haven whose entire economy is based around letting multinational corporations headquarter there to dodge taxes in other countries. To be fair, lowering effective corporate tax rates while increasing rates on upper income and disincentivizing rents as a zero-sum would be the ideal solution, but  on that being a reality.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:28
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The Onion is ahead of its time as always.quote:Precious Little Voter Needs To Feel Inspired By Candidate
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Sep 18, 2016 16:29
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Boon posted:To be fair, lowering effective corporate tax rates while increasing rates on upper income and disincentivizing rents as a zero-sum would be the ideal solution, but Yeah it's funny how people criticize the US's corporate tax rate as being higher than that of Nordic welfare states while ignoring that the Nordic states have significantly higher top marginal income tax rates, and that that's a conscious choice: they set their corporate taxes low (relative to other European countries at least) in order to attract corporations to set up in Sweden, but then set their personal income taxes high so that the jobs created by those corporate investments contribute a lot to the welfare state. It's actually a pretty clever system. The US (and Canada) on the other hand does the opposite: high corporate taxes with lots of loopholes and low income taxes. It's almost like it's a system set up to benefit rich people who can afford good tax lawyers rather than a coherent system designed to benefit the overall welfare of society.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:32
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