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FrickenMoron posted:Is the game hanging on a black screen after the ending a common bug? I saw people posting about it as I caught up on the thread just now, so apparently yes.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:32
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Bland posted:Does anyone else feel like the antagonists in CS II are a total let down? I just finished up the Finale and spent the entire time thinking how much better Liber Ark was as a climax. Barring Duke Cayenne, none of the antagonists really interacted with the party in any sort of way that would make you want to rise up and kick their rear end (not that the game would allow you to do so anyway since every time you defeat one of them it turns out they were totally holding back and you need to fetch an adult to defeat them for you). Vita kidnapping Elise (who it turns out is totally fine and was never in any danger anyway) is more or less the only antagonistic thing any of the major boss characters pull on the party in the entire game(s). The way Crow was handled was so bizarre too. Dude ordered a bunch of terrorist attacks that (presumably) killed innocent people, then assassinated the Chancellor and sparked a civil war and Class VII talks about him as if he's a naughty kid that ran away from home. There's so much potential for conflict there and Rean + pals through the whole game are content to just go with "come on crow, lets be friends again ya big goof". He's the only antagonist Class VII actually manage to definitively defeat and it only occurs under the pretense of beating the power of friendship into him. It's just such a far cry from how satisfying it was to defeat Weissmann, Loewe and co. While I do get your points but I really liked the fact that Trails series in general acknowledges that as kids, Class VII should be outclassed by their opponents, especially if they are experienced and have been fighting for a long time. A lot of RPGs and fiction in general that have kid main characters tends to have them solve a lot of problems that come their way all by themselves. They don't do that with Trails, for the most part. Both Estelle and Joshua and Class VII gets a lot of support from the adults.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:22
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Bland posted:Does anyone else feel like the antagonists in CS II are a total let down? I just finished up the Finale and spent the entire time thinking how much better Liber Ark was as a climax. Barring Duke Cayenne, none of the antagonists really interacted with the party in any sort of way that would make you want to rise up and kick their rear end (not that the game would allow you to do so anyway since every time you defeat one of them it turns out they were totally holding back and you need to fetch an adult to defeat them for you). Vita kidnapping Elise (who it turns out is totally fine and was never in any danger anyway) is more or less the only antagonistic thing any of the major boss characters pull on the party in the entire game(s). The way Crow was handled was so bizarre too. Dude ordered a bunch of terrorist attacks that (presumably) killed innocent people, then assassinated the Chancellor and sparked a civil war and Class VII talks about him as if he's a naughty kid that ran away from home. There's so much potential for conflict there and Rean + pals through the whole game are content to just go with "come on crow, lets be friends again ya big goof". He's the only antagonist Class VII actually manage to definitively defeat and it only occurs under the pretense of beating the power of friendship into him. It's just such a far cry from how satisfying it was to defeat Weissmann, Loewe and co. Here's something interesting to ponder. Who exactly ARE the bad guys in this story? The Noble Faction? Yeah, they're lead by several upper-class douches who want to turn back the clock and make Erebonia a country with institutionalized social segregation again. But from the POV of the rest of the Zemurian continent, Liberl, Crossbell and Calvard included, they're the lesser of the two evils as seen in CSII when Calvard briefly joins forces with the Noble legions in Nord to take down Zechs Vander and his men. The other alternative is Osborne's faction, who annexed independant states left and right over the last decade, tried to pull something similar two years ago and after turning up alive and well and reinstating his power after the finale, rolls right over another independant state, one at the center of the Zemurian international economy too. And he does it with the protagonist's help. You can bet your life that the folks following the conflict on the rest of the continent weren't eagerly rooting for the Noble Alliance's opponents to win. Regarding Crow, not just Rean and the party, but the entire student body (including Sara) were in a state of mutually reinforced denial regarding Crow. This was made easier by the fact that, despite the fact that Crow pulled a lot of downright criminal crap, he obviously still cared as much about Rean as Rean did about him. In SC, Olivier points out to Duke Dunan that, if he had lived in Erebonia, he would have faced the gallows as punishment for his role in the coup. If Crow had been dragged back to Thors by Rean and co, he wouldn't have spent the rest of his day on cleaning duty as Towa threatened him. He would have spent one day on cleaning duty before some military or government officials came to take him away and lock him up in a cell somewhere before putting him in front of a firing squad. But what else were Rean and the others supposed to do? There's no way they could have kept going if they openly accepted that end of their struggle would have ensured Crow's execution shortly afterwards, so they did as Vita mentioned; stand tall in the face of impossible odds and hope that somehow things would turn out alright, regardless of how realistic or unrealistic it was. That's what it meant to dream. And perhaps a dream was all it was, but it was a dream everyone believed in and was willing to face impossible odds for. Regy Rusty posted:I beat the game last night. Now I feel sad. Having to watch characters make decisions that were extremely frustrating and knowing there was nothing I could do to stop them was heartbreaking. Rean just feels so broken by the death of Crow and the reveal about Osborne. The exact reasons for Class VII all leaving were vague and somewhat unsatisfying, but watching Rean push them away, particularly Alisa who I'd paired him with, was heartwrenching. And now he's just going to follow Osborne's orders because he has no drive left. I don't think Rean's intention is to work from the inside to bring Osborne down. First of all, Rean's unaware of a lot of the more shady poo poo Osborne pulled and he can't rail against what he doesn't know. Secondly, I noticed that from statements like "it's not my place to determine how the world should be run" that Rean likes to avoid politics and washes his hands off the political implications of important events, preferring to completely focus on limiting casualties from various conflicts, even if limiting protracted bloodshed means quickly ending a conflict in favor of the aggressors. But the biggest reason Rean won't try to bring Osborne down from the inside is because he needs Osborne. If Osborne wasn't using a body double, that means he somehow knows the secret of ressurection. And Rean happens to have a dear friend in need of resurrection after dying from the EXACT same wound Osborne supposedly succumbed to. (said friend even pointed it out before he died) A lot of Kiseki fans suspect it wouldn't be completely out of character for Rean to willingly work with Osborne in attempt to get close enough to him and find a means to bring Crow back after all and still fulfill the promise he felt he failed to keep, especially if none of his classmates are around to keep him grounded. Heh, with Panzer Soldats and Divine Knights being a lot like Code Geass' Knightmare Frames and Crow being a Zero expy, I guess that makes Rean Suzaku Kururugi? :P Erpy fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 20:33
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Erpy posted:I don't think Rean's intention is to work from the inside to bring Osborne down. First of all, Rean's unaware of a lot of the more shady poo poo Osborne pulled and he can't rail against what he doesn't know. Secondly, I noticed that from statements like "it's not my place to determine how the world should be run" that Rean likes to avoid politics and washes his hands off the political implications of important events, preferring to completely focus on limiting casualties from various conflicts, even if it means quickly ending them in favor of the aggressors. But the biggest reason Rean won't try to bring Osborne down from the inside is because he needs Osborne. If Osborne wasn't using a body double, that means he somehow knows the secret of ressurection. And Rean happens to have a dear friend in need of resurrection after dying from the EXACT same wound Osborne supposedly succumbed to. (said friend even pointed it out before he died) A lot of Kiseki fans suspect it wouldn't be completely out of character for Rean to willingly work with Osborne in attempt to get close enough to him and find a means to bring Crow back after all and still fulfill the promise he felt he failed to keep, especially if none of his classmates are around to keep him grounded. I don't really think so either, the alternative is just depressing. I only added that to the end of that section as a sort of vague hope to cling to.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:36
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Regy Rusty posted:I don't really think so either, the alternative is just depressing. I only added that to the end of that section as a sort of vague hope to cling to. Even if Rean were to lose his way at some point, in the end I'm still sure his classmates would be able to eventually slap some sense back into him and turn him back into the corny peptalk-spouting shounen protagonist they came to know and love.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:42
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It'll all be okay eventually. 
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Sep 24, 2016 20:44
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davidHalestorm posted:While I do get your points but I really liked the fact that Trails series in general acknowledges that as kids, Class VII should be outclassed by their opponents, especially if they are experienced and have been fighting for a long time. A lot of RPGs and fiction in general that have kid main characters tends to have them solve a lot of problems that come their way all by themselves. They don't do that with Trails, for the most part. Both Estelle and Joshua and Class VII gets a lot of support from the adults. I firmly believe that narrative has to meet the gameplay halfway. Yeah sure it makes sense that Class VII can't take out the biggest of the big cheeses, but if that's the way you want the story to go then throw the players a bone and give them some lesser antagonists to beat up on. Don't make it so that almost every major battle the player 'wins' they don't actually win after all. Don't make it so that they always need someone to save them from the ever so impossibly strong hired goons. It gets very old very fast, especially when it happens as ridiculously often as it does in this game. Bland fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 20:58
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I think a lot of the bad guys from cs2 aren't going to be bad guys in cs3 which is why they weren't like eating babies on screen in this game.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:02
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Im finally at the very last dungeon I think now, over 3 hours after the "finale" ended. I really liked the Crossbell intermission, I cant wait to play Zero/Ao. Really hope they get localized. Maybe they are gonna pull switching protagonists for CS3? Seems weird to concentrate that much on Crossbell again. Then again we know nothing about CS3 yet so lets just wait.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:34
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Troma Films presents: LESBIAN BIKER KARATE NUNS' REVENGE Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 21:36
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wrt frickenmorons post I'd be surprised if they do a protagonist switch to Lloyd, but there will probably be a plot about Crossbellian resistance to the occupation he'll be a part of. Potentially a reoccuring antagonist then eventual party member depends on how cold steel 3 goes?
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Sep 24, 2016 21:39
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davidHalestorm posted:While I do get your points but I really liked the fact that Trails series in general acknowledges that as kids, Class VII should be outclassed by their opponents, especially if they are experienced and have been fighting for a long time. A lot of RPGs and fiction in general that have kid main characters tends to have them solve a lot of problems that come their way all by themselves. They don't do that with Trails, for the most part. Both Estelle and Joshua and Class VII gets a lot of support from the adults. People have made this argument before and I don't think it is backed up. Rean in particular is absurdly strong regardless of his age, to the point where cutscene Rean and story Rean don't always mesh up., especially when the silver hair comes into play. Class VII is capable of taking out 99% of the world without breaking a sweat. If they want a lower-powered team then that team shouldn't be regularly whopping the rear end of legendary monsters. The other thing is that Class VII is outclassed in the same way almost every JRPG character is: they fight a single strong person as a team. No individual one is stronger but their entire gimmick is that they're supposed to be stronger and more capable as a team than a single fighter. Instead Class VII is, as a team, weaker than anyone over the age of 20 except Sara who inexplicably goes from being a god to being merely average when she decides to fight alongside her students. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 21:43
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FrickenMoron posted:Is the game hanging on a black screen after the ending a common bug? FWIW it stuck around there for a while for me, but then eventually moved on.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:53
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i can get what cs2 is going for but it relies on that device slightly too often. The fact that the very first time it pulls it it's with the weakest antagonists in terms of power level leaves a bad taste in your mouth that doesn't help. (Xeno and Leo are highly skilled mercenaries but they aren't battle gods or anything, they shouldn't just be ~toying with them~ in a 5-on-2 fight where 1 of the 5 is probably about on the same level as them) but they probably wanted these characters alive and free for CS3 so the writing had to bend in some weird ways. I think this could have easily been solved by having less dramatic last-minute rescues and more 'class vii and the party fight to a standstill, the antagonist retreats when back-up for class vii shows up' scenes. I get that big turnabouts are better for drama but it gets wearisome pretty fast. Sky SC struck a good balance, imo. You get chumped by most of ouroboros once, you fight them later on and pull off a pretty clean victory. It's simple writing that shows the protagonists aren't world beaters. There's something to be said for making sure the protagonists aren't the end-all be-all, but after a point you start to wonder why these are the guys that are making or breaking the war instead of, like, Victor or somebody. Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 21:57
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Pretty much, the only one I could see anyone in need of saving in that regad is vs. McBurn. Also the amount of DBZ powering up stuff in this game is ridiculous.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:03
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other thing i wonder: why rean doesn't just call validar and step on mcburn
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Sep 24, 2016 22:06
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Bland posted:I firmly believe that narrative has to meet the gameplay halfway. Yeah sure it makes sense that Class VII can't take out the biggest of the big cheeses, but if that's the way you want the story to go then throw the players a bone and give them some lesser antagonists to beat up on. Don't make it so that almost every major battle the player 'wins' they don't actually win after all. Don't make it so that they always need someone to save them from the ever so impossibly strong hired goons. It gets very old very fast, especially when it happens as ridiculously often as it does in this game. Yes, I will agree that this is annoying. Especially, when the game doesn't makes it clear that which battles are meant to be lost and it is also very annoying when you pulled a perfect victory in gameplay, only for the game to go, nah you totally lost. The S-Crafts also breaks the story and gameplay integration a bit. I mean, Millum freaking goes to space, Alisa grew angel wings and my favourite, Jusis does the Infinite Spin from SBR but that happened in FC and SC too. Reg: calling Valimar to fight, Mcburn might probably win anyway, if he is that ridiculous
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Sep 24, 2016 22:37
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PROFESSOR THOMAS, INTERNATIONAL HISTORY NERD OF MYSTERY AND INTRIGUE! 
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Sep 24, 2016 22:50
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So, the reward for the quest with Neithardt is something called a Skill Handbook. Becky lets you trade the Skill Handbook along with a Heart Handbook and a Body Handbook for a bigger thing. Does anyone know where the hell the other two Handbooks are?
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Sep 24, 2016 23:08
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I'm pretty sure they are both in shops, I think it was the bookstore in Bereahard and later in the game the bookstore in Trista, I think.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:11
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Goddammit. Thanks.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:16
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Yeah, both are store items obtainable in later stores. Too bad there's no way to get another copy of the skill handbook. The item you craft all three books into gives a significant boost to crit.Endorph posted:other thing i wonder: why rean doesn't just call validar and step on mcburn McBurn specifically asks Rean to do just that, since it'll give him an excuse to fight at full power without immediately incinerating the opposition, but Rean refuses because Valimar was still down on the ground level recovering his mana and even IF Valimar were able to defeat a fully powered McBurn, he'd probably come out of the encounter with enough damage sustained for the impending battle against Crow and Ordine to turn into yet another curb-stomper.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:21
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Erpy posted:McBurn specifically asks Rean to do just that, since it'll give him an excuse to fight at full power without immediately incinerating the opposition, but Rean refuses because Valimar was still down on the ground level recovering his mana and even IF Valimar were able to defeat a fully powered McBurn, he'd probably come out of the encounter with enough damage sustained for the impending battle against Crow and Ordine to turn into yet another curb-stomper. Not only that, Rean was right about to call Valimar when Arseid showed up. Regarding the villains in CS2, I think it was very important to the ending that they weren't really villainous. The tone of the ending is very much "what the hell were we even fighting for?" once Osbourne pops back into the picture. Crow's death was meaningless, and the legitimate government they worked to restore was just another flavor of dictatorship. It's not meant to feel satisfying to win because it's not meant to be a satisfying ending. Rean is reluctantly drafted into the army to fight a war he knows is bad, but isn't bad enough for him to commit treason over it. His friendships in Class VII still give him some hope, but then they all leave him behind. The End. Ultimately the real villains were Osbourne and his Ironbloods who orchestrated this whole thing, manipulating both sides of the war, but at this point they're also Rean's friends (especially Millium and Clair, but even Rufus seems vaguely on our side, or at least honorable-ish), so he really doesn't know what to think about anything anymore. And it's in this uncertain place where CS3 will presumably begin.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:46
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ng+ does Celine always mention that there used to be a divine knight at Lohengrin or is that a ng+ thing, I feel like I'm going crazy
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Sep 25, 2016 03:47
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lets hang out posted:ng+ does Celine always mention that there used to be a divine knight at Lohengrin or is that a ng+ thing, I feel like I'm going crazy
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Sep 25, 2016 04:29
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How come Sara gets to do the giant robot thing when she definitely wasn't there for that boss fight at the end of the first game 
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Sep 26, 2016 00:20
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I'm sorry if this gets asked frequently but I didn't notice the question in the past couple of pages and googling the question has already spoiled me on some stuff. Is CS2 the end of the main story with the third chapter being an extra story? Or will I run into a cliffhanger at the end of CS2?
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Sep 26, 2016 02:00
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not a cliffhanger but it's an ending that leaves a lot open that's obviously meant to followed up on
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Sep 26, 2016 02:06
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Yar The Pirate posted:Is CS2 the end of the main story with the third chapter being an extra story? This is very much the middle story in a trilogy, unlike the Trails in the Sky situation.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:18
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The characters accomplish their immediate goals, but the world keep on turning.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:24
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Yar The Pirate posted:I'm sorry if this gets asked frequently but I didn't notice the question in the past couple of pages and googling the question has already spoiled me on some stuff.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:33
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Okay. From the sounds of it I'd rather wait for the third game to get released. I preferred experiencing all of Sky's story in one go.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:42
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Yar The Pirate posted:Okay. From the sounds of it I'd rather wait for the third game to get released. I preferred experiencing all of Sky's story in one go. You're going to be waiting a very long time.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:13
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It'd be the typical wait for a sequel to be developed and localized rather than the limbo SC was in. You'll even have a shorter wait than japanese fans since Sen II came out back in 2014.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:21
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On the upside he'll have 3rd and maybe Zero to play by then, and Zero is unique in that it doesn't end on a cliffhanger at all, it just sets up a lot of plot threads for the sequel as it tells and wraps up its own story.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:49
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When do Zero and Ao actually play in timeframe wise? Before both Sen games?
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Sep 26, 2016 05:20
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concurrent mostly. zero starts before CS, then CSII goes past the end of ao. a lot of the stuff happening in Crossbell that gets referenced in CSII is Ao's late/end game to be a little more exact the Azure Tree is the final dungeon of Ao
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Sep 26, 2016 05:24
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Cake Attack posted:concurrent mostly. zero starts before CS, then CSII goes past the end of ao. a lot of the stuff happening in Crossbell that gets referenced in CSII is Ao's late/end game Yeah, I haven't even heard any details about those games, but I thought that spoiler was pretty obvious.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:31
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FrickenMoron posted:When do Zero and Ao actually play in timeframe wise? Before both Sen games? At the same time. Zero starts slightly before Cold Steel, and Ao ends a few days before CS2 does, though Ao's epilogue goes a fair ways into the future past that. A lot of events get shown (in a manner of speaking; It's mostly references) from both countries perspectives. For example, people who played Zero/Ao already knew parts of how CS1 and 2 end, more or less *CS1 Spoilers!* Osborne's death and the civil war starting at the end of 1, and *CS2 SPOILERS* Osborne's faction winning the civil war. Supremezero fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 05:51
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Meh, I ordered them anyway. It'll give me a good excuse to play through both series again before chapter 3 comes out.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:53
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