|
A human heart posted:Not really That's like, your opinion, man. But seriously, he/she isn't really asking about the "canon" and seems to be more interested in following the early strains of modern thought which is a pretty cool project. Although I'm personally not interested in reading and exploring these particular ideas in the original formulation there often is something really awe-inspiring and illuminating about doing so. For instance, reading old case studies (even going back to the Ebers papyrus) in the medical literature always strikes me because even if they didn't know the underlying cause many of the old physicians were great observers and often picked up on physical findings or signs of illness that we still talk about today in the era of MRI, etc. And this is a little different but with the white--washed high school curriculum heavy in Victorian modesty/morality it's neat to realize that the Decameron, Canterbury Tales, Gargantua and Pantagruel, etc. are all full of bawdy sex tales and fart jokes. It is a nice connection to the real humanity of people from such different times/places.
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 12:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 03:07 |
|
|
I found Aquarium oddly life affirming and hopeful with the characters trying - perhaps not wholly succeeding, but trying - to find a way to move beyond the cycle of abuse and to reconcile their grievances. Now Goat Mountain, where the horrific violence and the torment of the child protagonist does nothing but escalate, hosed me up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
I'm reading Goat Mountain right now. It is loving horrifying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
I don't see what horrifying about the rotting corpse of a murdered hunter literally hanging over a campsite as a physical representation of moral condemnation
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
I may be a broken person, but Aquarium left me optimistic. Everyone goes through tragedy, it's impossible to fully understand someone else's experience, but you can move forward, you can have hope, you can try. What made it more enjoyable was the misleading hints that it's going to have a sad ending, making the actual ending such a sweet release of tension.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:I may be a broken person, but Aquarium left me optimistic. Everyone goes through tragedy, it's impossible to fully understand someone else's experience, but you can move forward, you can have hope, you can try. That was my reading as well. Although the book was tough at times I loved it and thought that it was just a good story about pain and suffering told well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
I am now sure how to classify the ending to Aquarium. Its definitely the most optimistic ending he has even written, but there is still a raw sort of melancholy behind that lingers despite everything turning out sort of "alright" I think the part that haunts me is the line that after seeing her mother's disgust at her sexuality, the narrator could never love her mother the way she had before Its such a heartbreaking line for me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I am now sure how to classify the ending to Aquarium. Its definitely the most optimistic ending he has even written, but there is still a raw sort of melancholy behind that lingers despite everything turning out sort of "alright" On a happy note your AV is throwing me off
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I am now sure how to classify the ending to Aquarium. Its definitely the most optimistic ending he has even written, but there is still a raw sort of melancholy behind that lingers despite everything turning out sort of "alright" Yeah, that's a hard moment, but it's not that she stopped loving her mother, only that her innocent view of Mom's My Hero, Mom's The Best was destroyed. Before she only had unconditional love for her mother, and thought that it was the same towards her, but once she's shown that no, her mom's love doesn't run as deep as her own innocent optimistic love, only if she fits within this cookie-cutter ideal of what a child is supposed to be, it just seals the deal of everything that has happened. She's no longer able to justify her mom's cruelty, and understands that she's probably stronger than her mother, and that her mother really needs help. It's like the final tittle above the i, the final epiphany. And though it's a melancholy moment (that's the perfect term), it's still a triumph of maturity, because she's able to love her mother as a human, flaws and all. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Oct 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
Continuing the Aquarium talk: how long does everyone think her mother really held out alone with her grandmother? A few days? Weeks? Years?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 21:18
|
|
|
Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:Continuing the Aquarium talk: how long does everyone think her mother really held out alone with her grandmother? A few days? Weeks? Years? This seems like a question a doctor would know better than us
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 21:26
|
|
|
Quit Being a loving Child and Read Aquarium
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
Welp you've broken me down and I've got a copy of Aquarium reserved at the library.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 21:53
|
|
|
Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:Continuing the Aquarium talk: how long does everyone think her mother really held out alone with her grandmother? A few days? Weeks? Years? I'd say at least two years: she was 14 years old when she was abandoned by her father, she had to look old enough to pass as an 18-year-old so she had to be at least 16 to start stripping, and then another two years passed before her mother's body was found, at age 18 or 19, if I remember all of the details correctly. They did make a point to say that her grandmother was young when she got sick and died. The real question is how long until the movie? I've read that all of his novels have been optioned. If anyone is curious, David Vann did an interview with Michael Silverblatt for Aquarium. He talks about some of the surprises that came with writing the book (when he started writing the novel, he didn't know who the old man was until he wrote the reveal), he briefly talks about dealing with his father's suicide, about how he's currently translating Beowulf for fun, and talks mad poo poo about Seamus Heaney's translation. Despite his dark material, he seems like a nice guy. It'd be fun if Aquarium was a future BotM, especially with all of the extended metaphors to play with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
what Vann do i read after Aquarium?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:and talks mad poo poo about Seamus Heaney's translatioN Hey whoa now, Seamus Heaney was more or less up front about translating Beowulf poetically first and foremost. What he produced was a gorgeous, modern piece of epic poetry that was absolutely faithful to the spirit of the original, not just like getting the story right but even down to symbolism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
at the date posted:Hey whoa now, Seamus Heaney was more or less up front about translating Beowulf poetically first and foremost. What he produced was a gorgeous, modern piece of epic poetry that was absolutely faithful to the spirit of the original, not just like getting the story right but even down to symbolism. Take it up with David Vann. His argument is that Seamus went too far with poetic license, removing whole lines, adding his own lines, changing words that deal with major symbolism between Beowulf and Grendal and many other major characters, mainly to vilify them as "bad guys". Go listen to the interview, it's only 20 minutes and it's interesting, though there are spoilers for Aquarium.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Take it up with David Vann. Alright, I'll listen to it. Not too worried about spoilers for a book I'll never read. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
at the date posted:Alright, I'll listen to it. Not too worried about spoilers for a book I'll never read. Have fun, Ignatius. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
at the date posted:Hey whoa now, Seamus Heaney was more or less up front about translating Beowulf poetically first and foremost. What he produced was a gorgeous, modern piece of epic poetry that was absolutely faithful to the spirit of the original, not just like getting the story right but even down to symbolism. heaney's translation fucks with the text too much. tolkien's is better
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
chernobyl kinsman posted:tolkien's is better Nah, it's dry and boring Heaney's introduction to the translation is also just really cool. Explains how it fits into his poetic project in general. If you want one that's true to the spirit and the letter, read Ray Liuzza's translation. He's an academic but he has the poetry thing down pat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
I will never take a bath or read the book 'Aquarium'
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
chernobyl kinsman posted:what Vann do i read after Aquarium? I recommend Legend of a Suicide but Goat Mountain is also good
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
I started Aquarium and bought Goat Mountain today. I am ready to join the cult.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 03:39
|
|
|
I googled David Vann just before and he looks like a goddamn lizard man
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I don't see what horrifying about the rotting corpse of a murdered hunter literally hanging over a campsite as a physical representation of moral condemnation this guy is dark!
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 07:51
|
|
|
I read Aquarium and agree that it is a very good book. Im trying to get my gf to read it but I'm afraid it might break her 😌
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 08:32
|
|
|
So which Chums of Chance book is everyone's favorite? Mine is The Chums of Chance in Old Mexico; it's much less racist than I was expecting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 09:42
|
|
|
looks like USA#1 might get the nobel this year 
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 10:00
|
|
|
I don't see garrison Keillor among the favourites...
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 11:21
|
|
|
apropos of nothing, is there anything i really should read of delillo that would change my mind, if i thought that White Noise was sterile and boring? like, i'd read munro's latest book before the nobel win and thought it was meh, but last year i got to THe lives of girls and women, which really was great, so i'm willing to give Mr. Don another chance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 11:27
|
|
|
or maybe it will be Adichie after all, since now they've brought up Kipling's age at the time of award??? why do i care so much about this anyway?
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 11:54
|
|
|
hahahahahahaha
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:03
|
|
|
huh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:03
|
|
|
Good on ya Bobby D
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:05
|
|
|
at least i can say that i've translated a book by a nobel prizewinner now lol really, i'm a huge fan of dylan, but this is, uh, unexpected
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:06
|
|
|
UrAClassAct posted:looks like USA#1 might get the nobel this year oh god what have i done
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:07
|
|
|
What do you call a Bob Dylan who gets fat at the Nobel party? Blob Dylan
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:08
|
|
|
I'm basically OK with this, even though I've spent some time arguing that there is no loving way Bob Dylan is going to win a Nobel, wtf are you talking about
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 03:07 |
|
|
What do you call a Bob Dylan sad that the lit thread is making fun of him Sob Dylan
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2016 12:12
|
|