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SunAndSpring posted:I'm betting the rebellion will end in total disaster, but hey, you tried. Yeah, I'm thinking Pyrrhic victory. You end up pushing the invaders out, but the total bloodshed is drastically higher than what an efficient Kyros enforcer would produce. The only hope of a long-term victory would be to incite rebellions all over the empire, resulting in decades of strife and millions dead. My guess is that the closest thing to a "good" ending will be one where you bring the rebellion to a swift end and help reform the empire from within. Or at least marginalize the most sadistic factions.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:22
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yeah it's odd isn't it. Almost every bit of promo material talks about how shittily handled evil playthroughs in other games are, and how they're all essentially dumb/chaotic evil. But one of the major factions you can align with seem to be dumb/chaotic evil. I don't think I'll ever bother with a Scarlet Chorus playthrough, if they're written as they seem to be. I think the ray of hope here for the Scarlet Chorus--and I know "hope" isn't the right word, but bear with me for a sec--may lie with the Voices, since their whole thing isn't necessarily "lol I'm chaotic evil so I'm so random and terrible! Burn the orphans!" They're supposed to be intelligently, cleverly sinister, and we can tell from the promo vids so far that there's something more going on there. I think the whole thing with the (spoiler for first meeting with the Voices) tooltip telepathy is wicked cool.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:46
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Are the scarlet chorus really more noticeably evil than the other factions? All I've gotten from the promo's is that they're about as evil as the rest but just really incompetent about it.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:07
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Have any of you read the Malazan books? Because there's a clear inspiration for the Chorus there. [edit] It's less lolevil and more really hosed up.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:23
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CottonWolf posted:The short story about her was really bad too, but if Inquisition taught me anything, it's that you can judge companion quality in RPGs from prerelease materials. Funny, because what Inquisition taught me was to never trust BioWare again.
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Oct 31, 2016 09:09
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They're definitely trying to cover a breadth of different kinds of evil, what with the way Kyros's Empire is made up of many conquered peoples and Archons. The Disfavored are obviously the more sympathetic, "bringing order" types, while the Scarlet Chorus are the ravenous horde in a setting without orcs. It comes across in their leaders as well, since Graven Ashe seems to care for his soldiers whereas the Voices of Nerat is an interesting but clearly pretty nefarious and capricious character. Even within those broad stereotypes, though, there's room for ambiguity. (From the previews) Some of the Conquest decisions show the Disfavored being pretty ruthlessly pragmatic about executing their enemies where the Chorus wants them alive to "recruit", and some decisions that spare Disfavored lives at the cost of Chorus note that you're causing greater casualties by volume. Kyros himself (themself?) comes off as so far above the affairs on the ground that they hardly care about the fine details of the evil performed in their name. Their willingness to kill subordinates for failing them and punish nations for defiance is probably a hard check on any lofty hopes of running the Empire in a reasonable way, at best you seem to be able to contain the damage. Kyros actually gives me a rather Ming the Merciless vibe so far. There might be a chance for a "good" rebel ending if my guess about becoming an Exarch/Archon of Justice is right, since that'd at least put you on the same playing field as the other Archons and Kyros themself even if it'd make the end of the game just the start of an even bigger war. Or alternatively, you throw Kyros's forces out of the Tiers and he Edicts the whole drat peninsula, or throws ten times the men at it with orders to kill everyone, rocks fall everyone dies. The best realistic chance might be a "compromise" ending where the Tiers still end up in Kyros's empire but under their own governance (or maybe yours) rather than either the Disfavored or Scarlet Chorus taking over.
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Oct 31, 2016 09:17
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The Scarlet Chorus are also literate, because they're really into magic, spying and knowledge. The Disfavored are mostly illiterate and have no true respect for the written word, because what has that to do with fighting?
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Oct 31, 2016 10:27
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MiddleOne posted:Are the scarlet chorus really more noticeably evil than the other factions? All I've gotten from the promo's is that they're about as evil as the rest but just really incompetent about it. They're aimlessly evil. The Disfavored will burn a city to make it submit to Kyros. The Scarlet Chorus will (or maybe won't! I could be wrong about them) burn a city just to watch it burn. And from what we've seen the game takes that difference very seriously.
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Oct 31, 2016 11:04
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fez_machine posted:The Scarlet Chorus are also literate, because they're really into magic, spying and knowledge. The Disfavored are mostly illiterate and have no true respect for the written word, because what has that to do with fighting? Reading about it the scarlet chorus is chaotic evil idiocy. But the disfavored are Nazis. Organized and dangerous. Just as evil but under a thin veneer of civilization.
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Oct 31, 2016 11:07
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Affi posted:Reading about it the scarlet chorus is chaotic evil idiocy. But the disfavored are Nazis. Organized and dangerous. Just as evil but under a thin veneer of civilization. See here's the thing, I don't think the Scarlet Chorus are Chaotic Idiots, they're chaotic might makes right at the level of the foot soliders, but during Conquest mode all the integrate the enemy into your own troops, let some of them go options are Scarlet Chorus options (especially anything to do with Mages). All the kill them all and let Kyros sort them out options are Disfavored. Plus, the Scarlet Chorus are all about diversity, where as the Disfavored are a mono-culture. They don't care really if Kyros rules a heap of ash and bones as long as Kyros rules. (I suspect going all out on Disfavored in the game will lead you to the option of nuking the Tiers).
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Oct 31, 2016 11:28
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MiddleOne posted:Are the scarlet chorus really more noticeably evil than the other factions? All I've gotten from the promo's is that they're about as evil as the rest but just really incompetent about it. AriadneThread posted:i haven't been reading any of the promotional materials, what's this about rape? because that gets an immediate stink-eye from me
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Oct 31, 2016 11:50
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I hope any attempt to aid the rebellion ends with the complete destruction of the Tiers. gently caress your 'Good' Kyros' Word is law and you're not actually competent enough to judge whether the rebels are right. Congrats on dying heroically though (and taking thousands of innocents who would have lived peaceful lives with you, you sanctimonious prick).
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Oct 31, 2016 13:34
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I just want to be a Lawful Neutral character (lawful to Kyro's laws) and see where that takes me. It better be good.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:59
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While from a broad look the Disfavored appear to be more pallatable than the Scarlet Chorus, due to the whole discipline versus anarchy going between them, I suspect the "side with the Chorus" ending will likely end up being the more benign one for the Tiers. The Chorus is a self-regulating system (like the conquest choices suggest) and they have been aggressively recruiting from the Tiers, and so they represent the faction that's actually integrating with the natives and learning about and from the land. They will never give us a 21st century rule of law, but I expect them to be the army better capable of beating the rebellions without commiting genocide, and at least somewhat in tune with local needs.
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Oct 31, 2016 14:45
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Yeah, the thing about the Chorus is that they're very populist with all that entails. They're the ones most suited (and culpable for) for raping and pillaging, but they also give psychos like Verse a place in society, while also seeming to help to indirectly preserve the peoples and cultures they conquer, or at least those citizens' lives. The Disfavoured on the other hand see things in very black and white, 'you're with us or against us' terms. If there are people who haven't watched the streams but don't mind spoilers, one choice that stuck out in the stream was during an argument between a Disfavoured and a Chorus member regarding a prisoner- the former wanted to kill him for oathbreaking, the latter wanted to recruit him, at least as a slave. What I got from that was that for all the shiny armour and talk of law and order, the Disfavoured might actually be more ruthless than the Chorus. At least the Chorus gives you a choice- the Disfavoured show no mercy. EDIT: That being said, oathbreaking's oathbreaking, and I look forward to lining the roads with crucified rebels 
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Oct 31, 2016 15:45
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I really like one of the first choices from the stream after you get to the Chorus camp. A prisoner claims to have information, but you can tell she's lying. The Chorus interrogator at first wants to kill her for lying, but ah! You have a chance to save her life, if you want. Suggest to the interrogator that she gets the chance to join the Chorus. If you pick that one, he agrees, cuts her loose, and hands her a rock. He points at one of the other prisoners who was captured with her. "Kill him."
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Oct 31, 2016 15:56
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I like it that in a game about "evil wins" people are straight ahead going "but I want to rebel!"  (That will probably end in tears being megamurdered by the resident deity at work here) Seriously though, I think there is a lot of interesting potential in you being a sort of Roman legate where, in your limited capacity, you try to do the thing that makes the job more easier on everyone involved: sure, you could go all out and massacre those barbarians, but would that be the best option? The Fatebinder isn't a chosen one, just a high officer at Kyros' service (perhaps a very competent high officer?) with a lot of autonomy, so you should be still a cog in the machine - you should feel replaceable, like "if someone else's is in my shoes he will certainly have everybody bombed to dust". After all, Tyranny shouldn't be a story of a hero-savior, or else it will go awry fast.
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Oct 31, 2016 16:04
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I also want to rebel, but only so i can be the deified dictator instead of taking orders from him.
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Oct 31, 2016 16:09
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Transmetropolitan posted:I like it that in a game about "evil wins" people are straight ahead going "but I want to rebel!" I imagine there probably is a way to rebel effectively, but you probably can't be 'good' doing it, I mean look at the above choosing to try to spare a guy leads to them having to kill someone else, etc.
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Oct 31, 2016 16:17
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CommissarMega posted:EDIT: That being said, oathbreaking's oathbreaking, and I look forward to lining the roads with crucified rebels Pirate Radar posted:A prisoner claims to have information, but you can tell she's lying. The Chorus interrogator at first wants to kill her for lying, but ah! You have a chance to save her life, if you want. Suggest to the interrogator that she gets the chance to join the Chorus. If you pick that one, he agrees, cuts her loose, and hands her a rock. He points at one of the other prisoners who was captured with her. Not anything to do with evil, but I love that Fifth Eye, the one in charge of the Scarlet Chorus, has such a high-pitched, grating voice that hearing him is enough for the Archons to stop arguing and pay attention to him instead. And the way he says "Hello to the Fatebinder! Let's welcome our visitor!" to cover his own rear end.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:58
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Maybe I misremembered, that outcome was mentioned in an article I read.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:19
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Furism posted:I just want to be a Lawful Neutral character (lawful to Kyro's laws) and see where that takes me. It better be good. That's exactly the character I'm going to be playing, full on, surrender and submit to Kyros' authority or die, lawful neutral. No fiddling decisions for personal gain, just dispassionate judgements. Mechanics wise, I thinking of going a unarmed/atrophy blink tank. Because both ranged and close quarters defence are on dodge if you're going unarmed, you can go all in on vitality and resolve, get really good saves and affliction duration, and pump dodge for your standard defences.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:07
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I don't remember this behavior being called the banality of lawful neutral tbh.SunAndSpring posted:Also lmfao at everything to do with Kills-In-Shadow. It'd be a miracle if she turned out to be good, because everything in that dev diary about her was the lamest loving thing. I'm absolutely sure the  setting/story will make me roll my eyes harder than even Game of Thrones ever could sometimes, but good companions could make those parts a lot more bearable. I'm not really interested in a single one of them, though. Then again, Hiravias was one of my favorite PoE companions, and it's not like Leisure Suit Bilbo was the most promising concept at first glance.
Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 19:39
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CottonWolf posted:That's exactly the character I'm going to be playing, full on, surrender and submit to Kyros' authority or die, lawful neutral. No fiddling decisions for personal gain, just dispassionate judgements. nthing this approach, I feel like the 'moral dilemnas' in crpgs can often feel pretty shallow/arbitrary, hopefully this'll help mitigate that. I really enjoyed Pillars of Eternity, but that game/the promo material so far haven't given me a ton of faith that they'll manage poo poo like pleasure slaves or whatever the gently caress in a nuanced way... I really want someone to take an approach from like Octavia Butler/Margaret Atwood/China Meiville on dealing with hosed up societies in sci-fi/fantasy settings. Or just get an author like that to write a game. Either way, Torment seems like it'll be fun; the scroll/spell system looks great, feels like it's taking some inspiration from like the Elder Scrolls.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:45
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RIP ZEEZ
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I'm pretty skeptical you'll be able to play the obedient Fatebinder for the whole campaign. Maybe the biggest reason is that your boss, Tunon, is being framed as a potential final boss, so at some point you might at least have to go rogue against him even if you're still loyal to Kyros's Empire as a whole - it seems like Kyros has room to allow his minions and lieutenants to fight amongst themselves so long as the most competent rise to the top and enact his will. It'd also be a good use for the influence system they set up with the different factions since they're who you'd need to lean on in some internal power struggle. It seems like the designers might be trying to deliberately provoke players into the "try to be good or even rebel" line of thinking. Little things like that talk about seemingly good decisions you make having bad consequences later would only be relevant if the player was actually trying to make good decisions, and one thing they've said about the Conquest portion is that whatever places you didn't go to make decisions, the story will assume the "worst" outcome happened, as in whatever outcome maximizes suffering. Again that would only be a motivator for players trying to do whatever they could to contain the damage, if you're playing to revel in the evil or apply Kyros's Justice then you might end up making all the same decisions as the "default" route anyway. That's something about the Conquest I'm not 100% clear on yet. Going from the previews, we know it works like three chapters, during each of which you can choose to go to one of several places, then at each place be presented a few different decisions you can make and each decision has multiple options. It's clear that if you choose to go to one place then the places you don't go will get the "default" decisions, but it's not clear whether decisions you don't choose to make also happen by default or don't happen at all. In fact, some decisions seem to chain, such as in preview videos of the Bastard City chapter showing different final decisions based on earlier decisions, so it's unclear if for example you don't choose the decision about the Chorus's plan to burn the city down does the city burn down anyway?
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Oct 31, 2016 20:46
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Dolash posted:Little things like that talk about seemingly good decisions you make having bad consequences later would only be relevant if the player was actually trying to make good decisions, and one thing they've said about the Conquest portion is that whatever places you didn't go to make decisions, the story will assume the "worst" outcome happened, as in whatever outcome maximizes suffering. I want maximized suffering to require the gentle touch of me, the player, doing my absolute worst. Like, you make me play an evil poo poo in a game, then let me be the most evil poo poo of all times.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:56
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Dolash posted:I'm pretty skeptical you'll be able to play the obedient Fatebinder for the whole campaign. Maybe the biggest reason is that your boss, Tunon, is being framed as a potential final boss, so at some point you might at least have to go rogue against him even if you're still loyal to Kyros's Empire as a whole - it seems like Kyros has room to allow his minions and lieutenants to fight amongst themselves so long as the most competent rise to the top and enact his will. It'd also be a good use for the influence system they set up with the different factions since they're who you'd need to lean on in some internal power struggle. I'm pretty sure they've said the final encounters change based on your choices, so I wouldn't assume anything.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:08
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Has there been any discussion on attributes in the streams? It seems to be a more talk heavy game than pillars. Are intelligence, resolve, and perception more valuable than might, con, and dex? I keep thinking back to Torment, where a straight up fighter missed so much of the story.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:35
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Since the game has an entire school dedicated to lifestealing and debuffs I might finally be able to play as a Shadowknight style of character that goes heavy on the melee, backed up with debuff spells. I always enjoyed playing as these kinds of characters but this kind of playstyle is seldom supported by CRPG's these days.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:10
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Dolash posted:That's something about the Conquest I'm not 100% clear on yet. Going from the previews, we know it works like three chapters, during each of which you can choose to go to one of several places, then at each place be presented a few different decisions you can make and each decision has multiple options. It's clear that if you choose to go to one place then the places you don't go will get the "default" decisions, but it's not clear whether decisions you don't choose to make also happen by default or don't happen at all. In fact, some decisions seem to chain, such as in preview videos of the Bastard City chapter showing different final decisions based on earlier decisions, so it's unclear if for example you don't choose the decision about the Chorus's plan to burn the city down does the city burn down anyway? So from what I can tell: no, this might be weird but you picking what you do makes that branch take priority. So if you follow the decision chain away from "burn the city" the city doesn't get burnt anyway. That seems weird logically, in a way, but it keeps control in your hands.
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Nov 1, 2016 04:51
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adamarama posted:Has there been any discussion on attributes in the streams? It seems to be a more talk heavy game than pillars. Are intelligence, resolve, and perception more valuable than might, con, and dex? I keep thinking back to Torment, where a straight up fighter missed so much of the story. As far as I can tell, attributes aren't used in dialogue at all, only skills, reputations and Conquest options.
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Nov 1, 2016 09:59
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Holy poo poo, this game is coming out already? drat but November snuck up on me.
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Nov 1, 2016 10:07
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Pirate Radar posted:Maybe I misremembered, that outcome was mentioned in an article I read. Found it! http://www.pcgamesn.com/tyranny/tyranny-evil-gameplay I'll quote the relevant paragraphs (spoiler for a scene from the first hour of gameplay): quote:An hour into the demo, I arrive in the Scarlet Chorus camp to offer my aid helping the army get started on our mission to crush the separatists. A captain by the name of Fifth-Eye tells me that their progress is stalled by a pesky band of rebels in the nearby mountains. Fortunately, a recently captured prisoner might have some information that will lead to the rebel's camp, allowing me to take them out and free up the Scarlet Chorus to move into the valley. And this is where I began to realize that being good in Tyranny isn't easy.
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Nov 1, 2016 12:37
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:As far as I can tell, attributes aren't used in dialogue at all, only skills, reputations and Conquest options. Yeah, it's pretty much athletics, lore, and subterfuge for dialogue from what I've seen.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:02
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Pirate Radar posted:So from what I can tell: no, this might be weird but you picking what you do makes that branch take priority. So if you follow the decision chain away from "burn the city" the city doesn't get burnt anyway. That seems weird logically, in a way, but it keeps control in your hands. Thanks for the clarification. It's confusing that deciding where to go for each chapter of the Conquest means that the other places get default "bad" decisions, but deciding which decisions to adjudicate at each place means the "situations" you didn't resolve just never happen. I guess the "big" thing for each chapter fires regardless, like who you leave in charge of Lethian's Crossing or when you choose to burn the library-city, so maybe the other decisions are just conversation and sidequest fodder.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:04
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New dev diary, this time about the last companion, Sirin, Archon of Song : https://blog.tyrannygame.com/2016/11/01/dev-diary-13-sirin/ Dolash posted:Thanks for the clarification. It's confusing that deciding where to go for each chapter of the Conquest means that the other places get default "bad" decisions, but deciding which decisions to adjudicate at each place means the "situations" you didn't resolve just never happen. I guess the "big" thing for each chapter fires regardless, like who you leave in charge of Lethian's Crossing or when you choose to burn the library-city, so maybe the other decisions are just conversation and sidequest fodder. I think that's only true for the Bastard City section of the Conquest, in which your original choice (helping the infiltration or assisting the assault on the Gate of Judgement) alters the following decisions you have to make. Whether you decide to go for one or the other, you are key to the fall of the city but the final events are mutually exclusive. So if you decide to infiltrate, there might have been riots in the city, but the corresponding Chorus choice for the assault (the city is burned) doesn't happen. X_Toad fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 15:59
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Barik, Lantry and Sirin looks like to be the best party
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Nov 1, 2016 18:34
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:As far as I can tell, attributes aren't used in dialogue at all, only skills, reputations and Conquest options.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:34
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frajaq posted:Barik, Lantry and Sirin looks like to be the best party
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Nov 1, 2016 18:37
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This thread is already derailing into the same kind of who's worse? Arguing that the New Vegas thread does, so im pretty pumped.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:00
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