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Typo posted:She would have lost VA too if she hasn't VA is gonna be a good state to over analyze for looking at where the problems were. Areas that weren't the typical top of NoVA or Richmond went way red and it's kinda telling if you recognize the demographic, event schedules, and involvements.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:00
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Condiv posted:http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/hillary-clintons-powerful-concession Remember when the Bernie crowd was mercilessly taunted for this exact same drat thing? Clinton was more of a cult leader than Bernie ever was. I am drowning in schadenfreude right now. Also Ive been up for two days straight because everything is awful and sleep seems horrible at the moment.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:01
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Wyld Thang posted:neither of those won. how exactly was bernie going to help family farming? they're both terrible celebrity ads that don't say anything relatable. willie nelson was probably the premier advocate for small farmers in the 80s and 90s. he started Farm Aid. in 2006 (it was for his senate campaign in a rural state which he won massively, so it did win for him) it worked. people that ad was targeting, rural whites, would have known exactly what Willie's support meant, and it wasnt just that he was just a popular country musician. as for how he would have helped family farms, well https://berniesanders.com/issues/improving-the-rural-economy/
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Nov 10, 2016 14:04
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How is the correlation of size of the political war chest to how much polls favored a candidate.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:03
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Nonsense posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...62d1_story.html Wasn't this the same system they used in 2012 and 2008 though?
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Nov 10, 2016 14:07
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No, that one was called Narwhal (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 14:10
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this is a pretty good opinion piece on why hillary was a bad candidate and bernie would've won https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/10/hillary-clinton-lost-bernie-sanders-could-have-won
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Nov 10, 2016 14:19
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The more I stew over it, the more I'm sure that, even with all of the Clinton problems baked in, Venom Snake, or me, or most anyone else in this thread could have been a better campaign manager than Robby loving Mook. Of course, maybe Mook wasn't actually making any decisions himself and was just the one who was the designated whisperer to the Great Oracle that was their GOTV computer. Sigh. God what a bunch of bunglers.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:26
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Bernie wouldn't have won. biden was probably the only dem who could have done it
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Nov 10, 2016 14:26
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Like I just can't get over this. How does a campaign focusing on GOTV manage to let this happen. This is beyond shocking. https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/796698923670839296
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Nov 10, 2016 14:28
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Condiv posted:this is a pretty good opinion piece on why hillary was a bad candidate and bernie would've won lmao wapo is now shilling for bernie. gently caress everyone at that paper
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Nov 10, 2016 14:35
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I remember asking this question a long, long time ago. Hillary 08 bungled by hiring on lots of sycophants and cronies and yes-men. I wonder if her management skills had improved since then. I was told something to the effect that time changes someone. Oops.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:40
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Shadowhand00 posted:Media driven but definitely lack of exposure/interaction on the coasts. In California, you never stop and talk to the people who live along highway 5/99 because they're all bumfuck backwards and poo poo. my wife and i drove to LA from SF and she got stopped in a bathroom and told "you're not allowed to be in here" because she had short hair and was wearing black then when she said she was a girl the response was "oh, you're one of those trans things" and when the lady's daughter said she might want to apologize the response was "i don't need to apologize to it" that's my story about driving through red california
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Nov 10, 2016 14:39
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Phobophilia posted:I remember asking this question a long, long time ago. Hillary 08 bungled by hiring on lots of sycophants and cronies and yes-men. I wonder if her management skills had improved since then. I was told something to the effect that time changes someone. I think that they made a different mistake this time. Instead of an idiotic crony like Penn, who literally didn't know that delegates were allocated proportionally in 2008, but had veto power over every strategic decision, you had a loving pow-wow of Silicon Valley data fetishist consultant types calling the shots by committee. But since everyone was focused on their own little piece of the Get out the loving Vote puzzle, you didn't have anyone pushing a unified, coherent, strategy and message. And then suddenly you underperform in Detroit by Two Hundred Thousand Goddamn Votes and it's off to the races.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:42
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Terror Sweat posted:lmao wapo is now shilling for bernie. gently caress everyone at that paper wapo sucks indeed and was pure clinton propaganda through the primaries, but freddie deboer rules. he doesnt work there https://twitter.com/freddiedeboer https://twitter.com/freddiedeboer/status/796706987925008384
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Nov 10, 2016 14:45
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:wapo sucks indeed and was pure clinton propaganda through the primaries, but freddie deboer rules. he doesnt work there Lol holy poo poo.how?what is the purpose of this tweet?who does it target?WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!
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Nov 10, 2016 14:57
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Oh yeah. This recruiting email they sent me last year still makes me laugh.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:00
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So here's a question, how do we shift the academic left to where it needs to be? Because right now the focus is on race and gender and how everyone that disagrees is a racist sexist that won't acknowledge their privilege, and that's where the next batch of fresh faced young campaign staffers, thinkpiece writers, and everything else is coming from. They're going to make it very hard for Democrats to shift back to being the party of the poor, because that's not even on their radar. Hell, I imagine to them the Trump victory just validates everything they've been told about rural voters.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:07
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exquisite tea posted:Clinton's ads against Trump were never all that effective because it allowed him to play up his "the system is rigged against me" rhetoric to a group of people who also felt like the system was rigged against them, and the constant deluge of negative ads only reinforced that message. Clinton paid to advertise Trump on a national level for six months. Her ads called him a racist, sexist, xenophobe, etc. Trump's entire campaign mirrored his supporters, so whenever Hillary insulted him, his supporters perceived it as Hillary insulting THEM. That motivated Trump's supporters to get out the vote and volunteer for him. Instead of converting people to Hillary's side, her stupid campaign actually paid money to make more Trump supporters. A business person who deals in day to day business activities like selling actual product in a competitive environment will outperform a stupid lawyer politician in a political race pretty much any day of the week for much less monetary investment. The stupid lawyer politician always looks like a sleazy divorce or ambulance chasing lawyer in ads anyway, so I hope this means the death of the political ad consulting industry.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:08
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So here's a question, how do we shift the academic left to where it needs to be? Because right now the focus is on race and gender and how everyone that disagrees is a racist sexist that won't acknowledge their privilege, and that's where the next batch of fresh faced young campaign staffers, thinkpiece writers, and everything else is coming from. They're going to make it very hard for Democrats to shift back to being the party of the poor, because that's not even on their radar. Hell, I imagine to them the Trump victory just validates everything they've been told about rural voters. trump had lip service
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Nov 10, 2016 15:09
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HannibalBarca posted:Like I just can't get over this. How does a campaign focusing on GOTV manage to let this happen. This is beyond shocking. The black vote didn't turn out. I'd be interested to see the turnout numbers in southwest Philadelphia in particular for similar reasons.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:10
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triple sulk posted:The black vote didn't turn out. I'd be interested to see the turnout numbers in southwest Philadelphia in particular for similar reasons. The weird thing was how she was supposed to be so much better than Bernie with black voters. Maybe it would have been even worse with Bernie. 
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Nov 10, 2016 15:15
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Phobophilia posted:I remember asking this question a long, long time ago. Hillary 08 bungled by hiring on lots of sycophants and cronies and yes-men. I wonder if her management skills had improved since then. I was told something to the effect that time changes someone. It's not her management skills. It's that the Democratic party sucks and liberalism is at core a bunch of assholes punching down. As a party and a political ideology we are the elite. All the richest zip codes, all the richest companies and industries, all blue! And those same zip codes and industries are the ones that destroyed the rest of the country so well off social liberal could do even better. We conduct all of our "good works" in ways that are really about us. Hollywood actors, musicians, fancy catered events, all while patting ourselves for how awesome it is and having a great time. The very things that well off liberals love about liberalism is why it doesn't loving sell. But without those things liberalism wouldn't be worth it. The party and the urban educated eventually have to come to grips with that. Either give up the pretense of giving a poo poo about people and just live it up while making fun of people and accept the fact that we are the predators and problem with this country.... or give up all the fun, tax the ever loving poo poo out of ourselves, move jobs out of our community, and actual deliver on what we claim to be.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:14
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:So a loving Archdruid ended up being smarter than all the Democrats, Goons and Pundits put together. This is from January 20th: This article makes a lot of good points and breaking things down into capital class / salary class / wage class / welfare class is an interesting way of looking at things. The salary class (of which I am a part) has absolutely stood by and allowed the wage class to be devastated, and we absolutely sneer at the wage classes for loving their religion and their guns and for being "uneducated inbred hicks". We've completely abandoned solidarity with the wage class in exchange for cheap poo poo, which we've used to generate the illusion of increasing wealth instead of dealing with the fact that the capital class has sucked up all the gains of the last half century. The article is also 100% correct that trump being elected is a good pressure valve, because if HRC won this election all that pent up frustration would be worse by 2020 and it'd very likely be wearing armbands. Nocturtle posted:Thank you for reminding me of the failure that was OWS. The largest financial disaster in modern history caused by a reckless elite and Clinton-Bush era deregulation was a great opportunity to build a movement dedicated towards addressing economic inequality. It was completely wasted, and I can't think of a single concrete accomplishments that came from the occupations. What laws were passed? Who got primaried? Maybe it contributed to Obama's 2008 landslide victory (didn't help much in 2010). OWS failed because the 2008 election already acted as a pressure valve to release frustration. Here's a huge loving shocker - protesting the system when your guy is in charge isn't going to catch on. It also happened like 3 years after the financial crash.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:17
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MysteriousStranger posted:Either give up the pretense of giving a poo poo about people and just live it up while making fun of people and accept the fact that we are the predators and problem with this country.... or give up all the fun, tax the ever loving poo poo out of ourselves, move jobs out of our community, and actual deliver on what we claim to be. 
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Nov 10, 2016 15:18
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triple sulk posted:The black vote didn't turn out. I'd be interested to see the turnout numbers in southwest Philadelphia in particular for similar reasons. i wonder why
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Nov 10, 2016 15:18
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ChainsawCharlie posted:Lol holy poo poo.how?what is the purpose of this tweet?who does it target?WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! It means "these people are the dumbest shits on the planet and don't trust them with anything more than putting together a maximum 50 piece picture puzzle."
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Nov 10, 2016 15:19
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https://twitter.com/freddiedeboer/status/796718450945232897
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Nov 10, 2016 15:20
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MysteriousStranger posted:It's not her management skills. It's that the Democratic party sucks and liberalism is at core a bunch of assholes punching down. her vp pick was done not because he would help her win, but because of a favor. her management skills are poo poo. shes spent the past 20 years turning the dnc into a party of yes men and shills who are convinced of their own superiority. gently caress em all
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Nov 10, 2016 15:20
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https://twitter.com/freddiedeboer/status/796717089394401280
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Nov 10, 2016 15:21
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Venom Snake posted:The biggest political movement this forum had lately was the Bernie thread and I dunno if those players are up for it again. Personally we should all do our best to volunteer and campaign. Im fuckin ready. Tell me how I can help right now and ill do it. I only know how to do the peon poo poo. Campaign, protest, volunteer. What can I do now. Volunteering and campaigning isnt until late 2017. What do we do now.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:26
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Nocturtle posted:It's worth remembering that Bloomberg threatened a 3rd party run if Bernie became the nominee (ie essentially threatening to hand the election to the Republicans). There will absolutely be a lot of resistance to progressives taking control of the Democrat party. I feel like Bloomberg wouldn't even get 10% at this point because he is just that much of an rear end in a top hat and his policies would satisfy no one.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:27
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So here's a question, how do we shift the academic left to where it needs to be? Because right now the focus is on race and gender and how everyone that disagrees is a racist sexist that won't acknowledge their privilege, and that's where the next batch of fresh faced young campaign staffers, thinkpiece writers, and everything else is coming from. They're going to make it very hard for Democrats to shift back to being the party of the poor, because that's not even on their radar. Hell, I imagine to them the Trump victory just validates everything they've been told about rural voters. this. this is what i have been saying (and got a red text for). Personaly, i think alot of these people will be tossed to the side quick as gently caress, espicaly since most of them are having colossial meltdowns on twitter and alot of the dems i know are blaming them partly for the loss. if the dems are smart, they will toss these clowns and the assholish dickishness they have, but try to keep their core message.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:27
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HannibalBarca posted:Like I just can't get over this. How does a campaign focusing on GOTV manage to let this happen. This is beyond shocking. - When all votes are counted, Trump is gonna have about the same total as Romney, maybe a little less. Hillary will have 5-6M less than Obama. - It looks like millions of people who voted for Obama sat this one out. Trump is president because he took MI, PA, WI on small margins with depressed turnout. - Trump was able to turn out the white working class in both primary and general by being the only candidate who made appeals to them. A lot of that appeal is either unworkable, lip service, or both. - even if Trump is genuinely gonna push that populist platform as president, he's got to get an agenda of 'gently caress free trade', protectionism, and ripping up trade agreements past Ryan and the still mostly neoliberal GOP establishment. is any of that wrong? because it seems to be the generally accepted narrative of Hillary's loss, but the conclusion i'm seeing from a lot of people itt is 'all is lost, we called non-urban whites racist and now they all belong to the republicans forever, nothing can fix this, we're doomed, we're doomed'. like, am i a dumb optimist for thinking that it's too early to conclude winning in 2020 is an impossible pipe dream? what am i missing?
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Nov 10, 2016 15:28
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prefect posted:The weird thing was how she was supposed to be so much better than Bernie with black voters. Maybe it would have been even worse with Bernie. I expect it would, not necessarily due to any fault of Bernie. The loss in black vote might have been offset by a more enthused youth vote though so it's really a wash at this point since we don't know how a general electorate would have responded to hearing about a tax increase.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:28
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:part of the focus on identity politics was to completely avoid addressing economic issues let alone giving lip service to them And that's going to have to change, but it won't unless academia changes. Rural white voters aren't going away, they're going to get poorer and angrier, and their numbers will be bolstered as the elites keep looting the country. The academic left needs to change. It produced people that not only thought like this: but would call anyone who said things like that were horribly lovely racist and privileged and all the other jargon that drove voters away. The academic left produced a wall of gatekeepers that prevented the higher ups from hearing reason, and that's going to have to change real fast. To be honest, I don't know if the academic left can be fixed until the college bubble finally explodes, because right now it looks like they're doubling down.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:28
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I still wonder how much October Comey Surprise into play, per demographic.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:30
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Nov 10, 2016 15:30
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MysteriousStranger posted:It's not her management skills. It's that the Democratic party sucks and liberalism is at core a bunch of assholes punching down. You actually get why the Democratic party is dead for the next twenty years, because they already chose "call everyone a racist shitbird" path to destruction, and actually doubling down on it with these mass violent protests. Maybe Hillary, Obama, or California's newly minted Senator should go to Oakland and feed their loyal masses some cookies to calm them down. Oh wait, the Democratic party doesn't actually care about their people and prefer to burn down the whole country after they took all that money.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:34
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Apraxin posted:so here's a thing I'm not getting in this thread: These are the two things I'm most focusing on. I'm not really concerned about the ideological battle that some other posters are going about in this thread. I'm too exhausted for that right now. What I'm looking at here, is that there was a machine. The machine broke down, or maybe never worked at all. And Robby Mook and all the technicians responsible for making the machine run were massive, massive failures. What this means for 2020, I don't know. But, as it stands right now, there don't seem to be many plausible standard-bearers. I was lukewarm on Sanders in the primary, but it's clear that we need someone with his energy right now. I just wish he was 15 years younger.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:36
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