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http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-wireless-kit/ Wireless VR? I don't see how this is feasible (too much latency in wireless).
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Nov 11, 2016 04:39
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Cash grab much? What's so special about that tech that would make it cost $220? Unless there's some super special ICs in there that are super unique the build cost of the kit should be a bunch of cables, some PCBs, and like two injection molded cases.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:59
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Knifegrab posted:http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-wireless-kit/
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Nov 11, 2016 05:05
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Some google translate of the TPcast website indicates that they have existing tech for wireless stuff leveraging 60Ghz wireless HDMI etc. They claim a max of 15ms delay with their setup so I wonder if they're still using 60G wireless rather than some proprietary tech.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:15
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Is that 15ms on top of the existing ~15-20ms allowance for rendering?
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Nov 11, 2016 05:16
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That's badass and I hope it works well, but even if it doesn't and adds noticeable lag for gaming, it's still a step in the right direction.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:21
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You could mitigate the effects of extra lag with reprojection/ASW at the headset end. That's easily within the reach of a modern embedded GPU.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:23
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Apparently 60G wireless tech has been around for years and it supports 1080p60 / 4K stuff but current implementations are finicky and cost a lot and require direct line of sight and is crap shoot. But at least the WirelessHD spec has near zero lag (1 frame) according to the existing product specs. Edit: http://www.roadtovr.com/serious-simulations-claim-their-zero-frame-latency-tech-can-make-vr-headsets-wireless/ they claim that 60G wirelesshd introduces an additional 17-22MS of delay, but that their own tech introduces like 15 nanoseconds of delay. w00tazn fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 05:24
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I'm going to wait on user reviews, but if the latency doesn't seem to be a huge problem I'll probably order one. I'm lucky enough to have a large play area and a wireless solution would be awesome. Also, I just want to say it's great to see both Oculus and Vive seem to be turning out big improvements to their headsets. Edit: And in light of recent events, also wait to make sure no one has the battery explode on them. Bremen fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 05:46
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Definitely interesting but I would definitely NOT preorder such a thing until it is in some reviewers hands. But hey here's hoping even if this isn't the solution it helps pave the way for wireless in the future!
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Nov 11, 2016 08:49
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Re: backpack PC With the advent of 100w 20v power delivery USB C you can already buy super mega USB C external batteries that can power any cell phone or tablet for days It's not unreasonable that you will be able to buy a backpack PC that can be plugged in to a dual USB C (200W) AC power supply, or a very capable dual port USB C battery. Maybe not this generation, but Son of Pascal will likely have 970 level capability at under 100w. Laptops are already there, we just need to lose the mostly useless display.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:19
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Nothing about that Vive Addon makes it look specific to the Vive other than cabling and mounts, especially if it's just using WirelessHD transmission. So expect to see Oculus / HMD agnostic versions quickly if it works. Valve could be working with Quark on some next level tech which could do clientside proccessing or some other magic that would work better and be specific but who knows.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:39
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w00tazn posted:Nothing about that Vive Addon makes it look specific to the Vive other than cabling and mounts, especially if it's just using WirelessHD transmission. So expect to see Oculus / HMD agnostic versions quickly if it works. Hell, the next iteration of the Rift and/or Vive might have that built in.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:02
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After seeing what happened with Stem, I'm wary of any third party hardware that promises to add functionality to existing hardware. Chances are that by the time this thing even comes out, HTC or Oculus will already have it in their new device.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:11
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Zero VGS posted:You were lucky you went with the Omni treadmill instead of the Virtualizer or you'd be out another $800. Only Kickstart what you can afford to never receive. Yep, I feel bad for those that didn't get the Virtualizer for sure. After todays announcement for the Vive Wireless stuff, if it ends up Reviewing good and working well, drat I cannot wait to get that to use in the Omni. The one problem with the omni is rotation could nearly lead to lynching yourself even with the included wire boom, with a wireless headset, you finally get what you need for full freedom of movement.  Also for those interested, the Daydream VR headset is surprisingly good and what Google has done for their reprojection and supersampling to make things clear and readable is pretty darn amazing. However those with a 6P hoping to still have Daydream compatible phone, it does work, but like a few blogs have said, it overheats rather quick and makes it a bit uncomfortable. If you can do it in a cool place (like inside your car with the AC blasting) it might hold out, but the battery drain on top of that will probably make any length of fun a short venture anyway. The remote works darn good though for being a sort of Wiimote and the touchpad almost feels a bit better than the Vive ones. If you have a Pixel/XL, pick it up because on those I hear it is a perfect experience. EdEddnEddy fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 17:26
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haveblue posted:You could mitigate the effects of extra lag with reprojection/ASW at the headset end. That's easily within the reach of a modern embedded GPU. That stuff is for framerate, not frame delay. You could possibily use the received frames to project all of the frames farther ahead in time and never show the rendered ones, but you'd be in much deeper artifact territory. ^Is there anything to do on it yet? I'm not surprised about the touchpad, I'm convinced the vive used the cheapest option on nearly every part.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:30
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Fooz posted:That stuff is for framerate, not frame delay. You could possibily use the received frames to project all of the frames farther ahead in time and never show the rendered ones, but you'd be in much deeper artifact territory. It would make head position/orientation updates more responsive than gameworld updates. Yeah, that might lead to some weirdness, but I'm thinking more about comfort.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:33
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Ah, for ATW that's true. You'd have the gameworld less responsive, but also just plain late. Until now the real frames didn't come often, but they did at least come on time. Hand presence already suffered in SteamVR reprojection, and this would be a lot worse. ASW works totally differently though, it's predicting the next frame based on the differences in previous native frames. Applying it to late frames would just make late reprojections. Like I said though, you could use the late frames to predict batches of two frames to show two and three frames later to correct for the time delay but you're likely going to have issues (or maybe just single future frames, with intermediates generated inbetween for better artifact consistency). It's possible that ASW artifacts will improve, but theres a limit at which you can't predict changes in accelleration. Maybe you could do ASW frames rendered in advance, and then apply ATW to those to kill head motion lag. In fact, if you get something working to correct for late frames, you could just take way longer to draw the frames on a wired or standalone set, for either better graphics or weaker hardware. This makes me wonder if native fps isn't the future of VR at all. Edit: on second thought, you need geometry to do atw. Maybe you could send that before the frame, or continuously on another channel (given that the file is small and you can get them there with minimal delay) so you can correct frames as they arrive. Fooz fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 17:46
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Fooz posted:That stuff is for framerate, not frame delay. ASW isn't just interpolating frames; it's reprojecting them for more up-to-date head positions as well, so it does reduce frame delay.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:29
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NRVNQSR posted:ASW isn't just interpolating frames; it's reprojecting them for more up-to-date head positions as well, so it does reduce frame delay. ASW also works magic with "V". With the 45FPS fps buffer everything is amazingly smooth in games like Elite while watching Plex or something. Even my 980Ti 6 Core powered system it takes a lot to run both V and Elite at 90FPS the whole time. ASW makes me believe you can do both on a single 970 with ease now.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:32
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NRVNQSR posted:ASW isn't just interpolating frames; it's reprojecting them for more up-to-date head positions as well, so it does reduce frame delay. That makes it worse, right? Your interpolation is late due to interpolating late frames (in a laggy wireless system), and your orientation is on time, wouldn't that be a constant conflict between making corrections for bad data, but them interpolating them back with new bad data, and then trying to make the same correction to that? Here's a visual for a theoretical lag correcting method: Using late frames (yellow), predict frames of the current time (blue frames), and include the predicted HMD orientation (green face) to reproject the image to the current orientation (blue face) when you display it:  Display only the predicted & reprojected frames, to show no lag effect. 
Fooz fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 20:35
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I did demo the Vive and Rift today. I liked the Rift better in most respects and the Touch controllers in particular. They were better both for simulating hand gestures in the VR world and as acting as conventional game controllers. I must admit that my overall impression of the experience is one of mildly disappointing screen resolution. Far off objects really lacked detail and clarity, and while I didn't really care playing Unspoken or Audioshield it seems like it would be a letdown in Elite Dangerous or Dirt Rally. Overall the tech is really impressive and I'm still very interested, I may even buy a Rift by the end of the year, but I hope the next gen HMDs really boost the pixel count.
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Nov 12, 2016 00:47
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Supersampling is supposed to help a lot. Going to do some SS tests on my rift tonight.
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Nov 12, 2016 00:52
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Fooz posted:That makes it worse, right? Your interpolation is late due to interpolating late frames (in a laggy wireless system), and your orientation is on time, wouldn't that be a constant conflict between making corrections for bad data, but them interpolating them back with new bad data, and then trying to make the same correction to that? I'm afraid don't really get what you're trying to say here, so I can't respond directly. But I don't think it's really right to think of reprojection (ATW/ASW) as correcting anything. The idea of reprojection is more that the actual render-to-screen only happens at the last moment, and that render uses completely up-to-date camera information. The frames that the game produces shouldn't be thought of as incorrect outputs to be fixed, instead they're just arbitrary information about the 3D scene that the reprojection uses to render the real output. You're not compounding errors because there are no errors; all of the intermediate images are correct information, they're just not suitable to be displayed in the headset. You do still get errors in the reprojection rendering, of course, because as a trade off for being very quick it's prone to artefacts. But those are one-off errors introduced at that point, rather than a result of any accumulation or correction of previous errors.
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Nov 12, 2016 01:38
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FBS posted:I did demo the Vive and Rift today. I liked the Rift better in most respects and the Touch controllers in particular. They were better both for simulating hand gestures in the VR world and as acting as conventional game controllers. I've done demos of the Rift Vive, and PSVR. I had no strong preference between the Rift and Vive headsets, but I share your feelings on the Oculus Touch controllers. Though I was pretty impressed with how well the Playstation motion controllers worked for VR stuff, considering they were never intended for anything so sophisticated.
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Nov 12, 2016 01:53
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NRVNQSR posted:I'm afraid don't really get what you're trying to say here, so I can't respond directly. I'm referring to cases where the frames are outdated, such as if they are being sent through a 15ms latency wireless system like the vive is purportedly getting. You could display only asw predicted frames 15ms in the 'future' to correct.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:11
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Fooz posted:I'm referring to cases where the frames are outdated, such as if they are being sent through a 15ms latency wireless system like the vive is purportedly getting. You could display only asw predicted frames 15ms in the 'future' to correct. While I believe that ASW does predict future head positioning, it does not predict future head orientation. I would think that trying to do that would be pretty bad, like a microstutter kind of bad. If you are in ASW mode, you will still pass through ATW, which will provide last-second head orientation transformations to the scene. I think it would be an interesting test to see how sick people would get with badly predicted orientation.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:13
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Fooz posted:I'm referring to cases where the frames are outdated, such as if they are being sent through a 15ms latency wireless system like the vive is purportedly getting. You could display only asw predicted frames 15ms in the 'future' to correct. I think we're talking about different things, then. If you're applying reprojection before the 15ms latency, which is probably what the Vive system is doing, then absolutely it can't do anything to solve that latency. The only way reprojection can help with a laggy wireless system is if you have processing power on the headset and run the reprojection after the wireless latency has already happened.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:40
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Anyone playing Eagle Flight multiplayer, how's the population/matchmaking? The Ubisoft forums have a bunch of people saying they can't find any matches, though I think some of those are PSVR. Apparently they're making it cross-platform when they release for Vive on 20th December but they're still just exploring the possibility of doing cross platform with PSVR.
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Nov 12, 2016 12:06
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I'm rather hesitant to buy any VR-only multiplayer games right now for that very reason. It's a big part of why I think Oculus bundling Dead and Buried and The Unspoken with Touch is a really smart move, as it's likely the only way those games are going to have anything resembling a healthy multiplayer population.
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Nov 12, 2016 14:28
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NRVNQSR posted:I think we're talking about different things, then. If you're applying reprojection before the 15ms latency, which is probably what the Vive system is doing, then absolutely it can't do anything to solve that latency. The only way reprojection can help with a laggy wireless system is if you have processing power on the headset and run the reprojection after the wireless latency has already happened. Oh yeah, I was replying to a post talking about ASW/ATW hardware on the headset side in the first place. I should have restated that. The caveat is you'd have to send some amount of the geometry data or a representation of it with each frame.
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Nov 12, 2016 15:24
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Helter Skelter posted:I'm rather hesitant to buy any VR-only multiplayer games right now for that very reason. It's a big part of why I think Oculus bundling Dead and Buried and The Unspoken with Touch is a really smart move, as it's likely the only way those games are going to have anything resembling a healthy multiplayer population.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:52
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Finally finished Chronos, the last boss took me god knows how many deaths to deal with and I was 80 by the end but it was still awesome! I am bad at video games
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Nov 12, 2016 19:54
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homeless snail posted:That sure didn't help Eve Valkyrie Same thing could happen here (both shipping issues for Touch and the pack-ins being less than stellar), of course, but I'd say that all other things being equal, a free game is likely to reach more people than one that isn't.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:48
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Yea Valkyrie was awful and Gunjack was worse. Edit: I booted my rift up for the first time in a while and they've improved the blacks and tint, but The top half of my right display is a bit redder than the rest. It wouldn't be so bad except the line separating the areas is sharp and right in the middle of the screen. Opened a ticket, see if I've gotta RMA it. Nobody can build a drat HMD it seems. Fooz fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 21:42
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Heads up, Obduction is 20% off on Steam
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Nov 13, 2016 21:12
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That sucks, I had just bought it on steam a few days ago. Oh well.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:24
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Cojawfee posted:That sucks, I had just bought it on steam a few days ago. Oh well. Refunding and rebuying if you got something just before a sale is explicitly not abuse of the steam refund system, according to their own FAQ.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:26
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I've already put 9 hours into it and it's just six dollars.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:32
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If your Oculus Home has updated to 1.10 you can launch the Avatar Editor now by using the executable directly in "C:\Oculus\Support\oculus-avatar-editor\OVRAvatarEditor.exe"
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Nov 14, 2016 08:54
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