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For the ending stuff, as far as I can tell it is impossible to: 1. spare Ashe on Chorus Route 2. spare Nerat on Disfavored Route 3. spare Ashe or Nerat on Rebel route 4. spare Breden Mark on non-Anarchist routes you can spare Tunon on all the routes I really disliked how railroaded the Disfavored path in particular seemed to be. Some things I noticed that annoyed me: 1. had to kill all the Unbroken, to the point where it was literally forcing me to [attack] 2. had to kill all the Bronze Brotherhood, to the point where it was forcing me to [attack] 3. had to kill all the beastmen 4. had to kill all the Sages when i redid it and picked the Citadel 5. had to help the Earthshakers blight the land, I even got fear with Sirin for it- excuse me, I literally had no choice Ultimately I was really quite disappointed. Act 1 was wonderful and gave lots of opportunities for choices, but afterwards the game seems to assume that you are just gungho with whatever side you picked, no questions asked. It's a very surreal experience to literally be forced to take certain actions that go completely against your character, and this is something that happens all the time in Act 2.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:49
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Moridin920 posted:Yeah but Jack is all tortured soul about it and Verse just revels in it and is generally havin' a good old time. That's what makes her much more bearable. Verse is actually written as a character who's altogether happy with how things turned out, and is only remorseful over hesitating in combat once at a crucial moment. Jack is every Superpower Teen With Troubled Laboratory Past you've ever seen with a frankly garish design. Sirin's actually closer in concept to Jack, but she's much more well-written and doesn't brood excessively over what happened during her childhood.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:51
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precision posted:It's a little weird seeing some of the same people that hated Jack in ME2 saying they like Verse. I mean compared to Verse, Jack is a loving saint. It's most of the reason she's more bearable, tbh. You could try to heal Jack with the saving power of *points to dilz* after which she awkwardly cries in your arms during a makeout session, and also says the line "it's like I'm a super-powered bitch, but also a scared little girl at the same time" without irony. Verse, on the other hand, 500% owns who she is, and has no intention of changing, on the grounds the girl she was before's sole joy in life was occasionally sneaking out and torturing livestock. Jack was a broken bird who needed Shepard's help to heal, one you may recognize from Every Young Adult Novel In History. Verse is someone any civilized society throws in a dark hole in the ground and does its best to forget ever existed. How lucky for you that the Voices of Nerat was there to facilitate her growth from potential serial killer to mass murderer.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:51
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Lichtenstein posted:I executed Ashe and dealt with Nerat without combat by telling him I'll bow to him and complying with his request to sacrifice a companion. Due to Archon-in-making magic it ended up with Barik devouring Nerat from inside and awkwardly leading the chorus to do my bidding. Haha, that owns.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:52
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Dolash posted:Edit: Can anything come of (Lantry background spoiler)discovering Lantry joined the Sages as a Scarlet Chorus agent? It hardly does him any good considering he fails his mission of getting them to surrender and it doesn't spare him if you feed him to Nerat in Act One, but it seems like a bit of a bombshell and normally I'd figure it'd play into some story about him being a fraud or deceitful but it ended up just being some trivia. I just got to that point in my playthrough and the complete and utter nonchalance with which he drops that truth bomb was jarring as gently caress.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:53
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DoctorGonzo posted:I deleted after maybe 1 hour. I was promised that i could be a bad guy but that was not what i got. Insane loading times. Boring setting. How were you not a bad guy? Did you make it to the Scarlet Chorus camp? You can initiate a prisoner into the Chorus by having them bash the heads of their fellow prisoners in with a rock.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:54
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Viral Warfare posted:For the ending stuff, as far as I can tell it is impossible to: You sided with the Disfavored. What, of everything you saw in Act 1, lead you to believe that this was the path that would give you a great deal of doctrinal flexibility.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:55
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precision posted:I just got to that point in my playthrough and the complete and utter nonchalance with which he drops that truth bomb was jarring as gently caress. Lantry makes it crystal clear on your first meeting that he's willing to work with whoever will pay the bills and let him read in his spare time. He's an out-and-out pragmatist: he's the one who counseled the Sages to surrender because he realized that Kyros was going to steamroll over them. Admitting, "Yeah, I worked for the Chorus as a spy for a while," isn't that weird considering his personality; it seems like the most normal thing in the world to him, especially since Kyros appears to have already "won" by the time the game starts.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:56
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Viral Warfare posted:
If you're on Disfavored route, why wouldn't you kill all those people? You are an agent of Kyros's court who just spent three years murdering all those people in the first place. If anything it's to Obsidian's credit that you're given as much flexibility as you are, there's no point in trying to make friends with the rebels half-way through crushing them and it would've made writing the game to be coherent even more difficult. Vermain posted:Lantry makes it crystal clear on your first meeting that he's willing to work with whoever will pay the bills and let him read in his spare time. He's an out-and-out pragmatist: he's the one who counseled the Sages to surrender because he realized that Kyros was going to steamroll over them. Admitting, "Yeah, I worked for the Chorus as a spy for a while," isn't that weird considering his personality; it seems like the most normal thing in the world to him, especially since Kyros appears to have already "won" by the time the game starts. If he's been a spy for Nerat for 30 years, that kind of throws suspicion on any claims he makes about his motivations. All of that "being pragmatic" stuff is probably what he told his Sage buddies while he was telling them to submit to Kyros, as he was instructed by Nerat to do decades ago, and considering you can throw Verse out of your party for fear that she's a Chorus spy that should really be grounds to do the same thing to Lantry. Dolash fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 23:58
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Ze Pollack posted:You sided with the Disfavored. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. I didn't "side" with them. I picked them to lead an attack. Even the options to betray them are at the most random of times, and you're still forced to kill all the Unbroken even if you pick them. It isn't just on the Disfavored route, either- I played the other three routes and while they were a little more flexible, it was only a little. The main thrust of the complaint is that the game doesn't offer you much flexibility after Act 1, and you can handwave that away with 'you picked the Disfavored to lead an attack, now you're their most loyal servant, why'd you expect doctrinal flexibility bitch' but I don't think that's a good answer to it, honestly.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:59
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You sided with the goosestepping Nazis and burned/killed all your bridges so the only option afterwards is to betray them entirely what did you expect
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Nov 17, 2016 00:03
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I really have to emphasize that everyone you mentioned having to fight are rebels or other undesirables in Kyros's empire, so unless you defected to their side then obviously you have to fight them. Some people who went independent route have been annoyed they had to fight those rebels since maybe they want to be neutral to them, but even in independent route it's not enough to blow off your loyalty to Kyros, you'd have to deliberately establish your loyalty to the anti-Kyros factions, otherwise they're just going to keep seeing you as the agent of Kyros you were over the last three years of conquest.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:07
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Now I'm worried, I wanted to side with them by default in Conquest because the other guys seemed like a bunch of lolrandom chaotic evil dumbshits :/
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Nov 17, 2016 00:08
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Ciaphas posted:Now I'm worried, I wanted to side with them by default in Conquest because the other guys seemed like a bunch of lolrandom chaotic evil dumbshits :/ If you pick the choices that are better off for the Tiers in general, you'll have a slightly easier time if you decide to go with the rebels.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:09
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Eej posted:You sided with the goosestepping Nazis and burned/killed all your bridges so the only option afterwards is to betray them entirely what did you expect Holy poo poo, you can repeat this ad nauseam but it's still loving stupid because it's not just on the "goosestepping nazi" path that this poo poo happens. The game loses an aspect of choice and becomes a bounce from one combat to another after the first Act. The fact that the game forces me to attack people I have no real reason to attack is loving stupid. At the very least, have them scream something incomprehensible about how I'm an evil agent of Kyros and make them attack me or something- it'd be better than forcing the player to pick the 'Attack' option to advance the plot leaving them with no other recourse. This is not a good argument. If you had fun on your game, that's great- I did too- but I'm still disappointed by a noticeable drop off in quality. The different Act 2s didn't feel all that different. It was just fighting brown instead of purple.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:10
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Viral Warfare posted:Yeah, yeah. Whatever. I didn't "side" with them. I picked them to lead an attack. Even the options to betray them are at the most random of times, and you're still forced to kill all the Unbroken even if you pick them. It isn't just on the Disfavored route, either- I played the other three routes and while they were a little more flexible, it was only a little. The main thrust of the complaint is that the game doesn't offer you much flexibility after Act 1, and you can handwave that away with 'you picked the Disfavored to lead an attack, now you're their most loyal servant, why'd you expect doctrinal flexibility bitch' but I don't think that's a good answer to it, honestly. You are, however, trapped by the fact you've made an enemy of everyone who's not either Tunon or the Disfavored in Vendrian's Well. The Chorus gives you options, even if the Voices does his best to pare them down. Necessity trims your options a little on the rebel path, but anyone who's a foe of those two has a justification to become a friend of yours. And on the Independence path, well, when you murder everyone, everyone wants to murder you. You had your chance to offer mercy to rebels. You did not. You had your chance to choose barbaric freedom over civilized mass murder. You did not. You had your chance to carve your own path in blood rather than hand a tremendous amount of power to Bald Magic Hitler. You did not. Welcome to Obsidian. Your choices have consequences. And the well-foreshadowed consequence of your choice was that your toolkit for handling treachery and treachery accessories has been reduced to how hard you bring down the axe.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:11
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Ze Pollack posted:You are, however, trapped by the fact you've made an enemy of everyone who's not either Tunon or the Disfavored in Vendrian's Well. The Chorus gives you options, even if the Voices does his best to pare them down. Necessity trims your options a little on the rebel path, but anyone who's a foe of those two has a justification to become a friend of yours. And on the Independence path, well, when you murder everyone, everyone wants to murder you. I did offer mercy to rebels though... constantly. I just didn't decide to side with them. Oops. I guess that doesn't fit your weird narrative trying to explain away the Act 2 railroad, though.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:15
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Viral Warfare posted:Yeah, yeah. Whatever. I didn't "side" with them. I picked them to lead an attack. Even the options to betray them are at the most random of times, and you're still forced to kill all the Unbroken even if you pick them. It isn't just on the Disfavored route, either- I played the other three routes and while they were a little more flexible, it was only a little. The main thrust of the complaint is that the game doesn't offer you much flexibility after Act 1, and you can handwave that away with 'you picked the Disfavored to lead an attack, now you're their most loyal servant, why'd you expect doctrinal flexibility bitch' but I don't think that's a good answer to it, honestly. Okay so you want choices and consequenses to be meaningless? To have a blank slate with every interaction?
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Nov 17, 2016 00:20
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Viral Warfare posted:Holy poo poo, you can repeat this ad nauseam but it's still loving stupid because it's not just on the "goosestepping nazi" path that this poo poo happens. The game loses an aspect of choice and becomes a bounce from one combat to another after the first Act. The fact that the game forces me to attack people I have no real reason to attack is loving stupid. At the very least, have them scream something incomprehensible about how I'm an evil agent of Kyros and make them attack me or something- it'd be better than forcing the player to pick the 'Attack' option to advance the plot leaving them with no other recourse. You can definitely go around murdering everyone on the Rebel route, your coalition would be really small though.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:20
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Zore posted:Okay so you want choices and consequenses to be meaningless? To have a blank slate with every interaction? No, it isn't choice and consequence to not offer me any option in dialogue but [Attack]. That isn't how that works.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:21
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Viral Warfare posted:No, it isn't choice and consequence to not offer me any option in dialogue but [Attack]. That isn't how that works. Umm I get plenty of dialog options other than attack.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:22
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Game good? It looks interesting, but I don't want to read the rest of the thread because of spoilers, and I can't resist clicking black bars.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:22
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Viral Warfare posted:No, it isn't choice and consequence to not offer me any option in dialogue but [Attack]. That isn't how that works. Actually its exactly how that works. Consequences like not being able to avoid a fight are pretty important or choices are meaningless.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:24
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Hold on, I've been nice to the Rebels every time I've encountered them, but I'm in Act 2 and the game thinks I "sided with the Chorus" despite having almost as much Wrath as Loyalty with them and everyone involved with them, are you really telling me that I will be locked into killing all the rebels I encounter from now on because that is extreme ultimate bullshit. I even let that one rebel leader go and convinced Tunon it was a good idea! Come on!
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Nov 17, 2016 00:25
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Game good? It looks interesting, but I don't want to read the rest of the thread because of spoilers, and I can't resist clicking black bars. Yes. Spell crafting, consequences, pretty good writing and visuals.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:25
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precision posted:Hold on, I've been nice to the Rebels every time I've encountered them, but I'm in Act 2 and the game thinks I "sided with the Chorus" despite having almost as much Wrath as Loyalty with them and everyone involved with them, are you really telling me that I will be locked into killing all the rebels I encounter from now on because that is extreme ultimate bullshit. I even let that one rebel leader go and convinced Tunon it was a good idea! You led the chorus to slaughter a good chunk of their leaders. So yeah, they're not gonna work with you.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:27
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fwiw the game does feel pretty bare bones and I think it's cause it seems like more of a side project for Obsidian than say, Pillars? You sorta hit your peak power stride at around the end of Act 2 so Act 3 should kinda be a victory lap as you unleash 200 lore spells and cleave down everyone for 300 damage per swing but it's too short for that which I feel is why a lot of people think the game ends too fast. Well there's always DLC!
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Nov 17, 2016 00:32
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Game good? It looks interesting, but I don't want to read the rest of the thread because of spoilers, and I can't resist clicking black bars. I liked it, playing through again now - Lore is the best skill but you can still be a muscle wizard
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Nov 17, 2016 00:35
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I'm still not getting a reply to my point that unless you overtly signal your intention to defect to the Tiersmen by joining the rebels, you will remain an agent of Kyros who's been conquering them for the last three years, who is charged by the Overlord to destroy everyone who contests their rule, and who reasserted their commitment to that goal by their actions in Vendrien's Well. You can be relatively merciful during the conquest regardless of Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus desires, and you can continue to be merciful even as a conqueror here and there by sparing some people, but anyone who's in active rebellion is by default an enemy of the realm and it doesn't make sense not to fight them. At best I can imagine a situation where they add a dialogue option to a few encounters (like the Unbroken) where you try to talk past them or claim dealing with them isn't your job (when it is) but they'd still be blocking you elsewhere from completing your goals and you'd have to explain your inconsistent actions to Tunon or another Archon, so maybe a few more acts of mercy would be fine but it's not going to tip the balance. Edit: As for DLC and expansions I assume they'll do something to soften the impact of how much divergence there is in the main game. The obvious next step is going to the Northern Empire and fighting the Plague Archon with their army there. Every path has motivation for doing that since Kyros won't leave you alone as a competing Overlord and taking place mostly in a new environment cuts down on some of the consequences - make a few things different based on what Edict you unleashed at the end of the main game and which army you're bringing with you to take over the North, but that's mostly it. Dolash fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 00:37
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Zore posted:You led the chorus to slaughter a good chunk of their leaders. So yeah, they're not gonna work with you. I don't recall being given a choice. e: from what others have said, is it also really true that now that I'm "locked in" to the Chorus path, I can't call them out on their bullshit or dismiss them without getting "locked in" to the Independent path? THIS THEOCRACY MAKES NO SENSE
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Nov 17, 2016 00:44
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You can be diplomatic with Eb, you can let the guy in the forest go with all his men and then you can not kill the lady at the fort and you will open the rebel path that way, if you choose so
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Nov 17, 2016 00:46
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precision posted:I don't recall being given a choice. You have the ability to join the rebels in act 1.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:50
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I've been playing Act 2 for the longest time, this game has plenty of content and feels pretty fleshed out - I don't think I would mind a short last act at all given how much stuff happens before. Did some of you guys complaining about length and lack of areas bulldoze past Act 2?
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Nov 17, 2016 00:50
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Zore posted:You have the ability to join the rebels in act 1. Why can't I reject the Chorus and the Disfavored both on purely pragmatic grounds (they're not doing their drat job) and help the Rebels without "joining" them (a country full of dead people is no use to Kyros)? My understanding is that the only way to do this is literally to say "gently caress Kyros, I'm taking over" which I also don't want to do. Kontradaz posted:I've been playing Act 2 for the longest time, this game has plenty of content and feels pretty fleshed out - I don't think I would mind a short last act at all given how much stuff happens before. Did some of you guys complaining about length and lack of areas bulldoze past Act 2? It took me 16 hours to finish Act 1. I assume people who say they beat it in 24 hours aren't reading anything, because I'm skimming a lot as it is.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:54
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Kontradaz posted:I've been playing Act 2 for the longest time, this game has plenty of content and feels pretty fleshed out - I don't think I would mind a short last act at all given how much stuff happens before. Did some of you guys complaining about length and lack of areas bulldoze past Act 2? Act 2 is very solid, but Act 3's problems are more presentation related. You're all set up for some cool final confrontations but what you get is a little perfunctory, the trials are short and not interactive enough while the boss fights are just the Archons hanging around their HQs and you brawl them. The finale with your last Edict is all offscreen resolution, you never see the army coming to fight you. All it's really missing is a finale setpiece, the way Vendrien's Well was in Act 1. I like to suggest a siege of the Bastard City with all the Archons in attendance and your alliances determining just who's the besieger/besieged. It feels like they were planning on having you go there at some point since it plays a large role in the conquest but you never really do. So it's not so much that Act 3 doesn't cover what it needs to cover, just that they do it in an unimpressive way with no new assets, locations or events. Edit: realized you won't be able to read that if you haven't actually beaten Act 3 yet, so a more spoiler-free summary is that you hit a lot of things you need to hit but there's a lack of major setpieces or a climactic showdown to tie everything back together, and the final thing you do in particular is a little underwhelming since it's mostly offscreen.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:55
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Dolash posted:How were you not a bad guy? Did you make it to the Scarlet Chorus camp? You can initiate a prisoner into the Chorus by having them bash the heads of their fellow prisoners in with a rock. No i didnt i was bored to death and the long loading times and the walls of texts sucked. I didnt like Pillars of Eternity either so maybe the problem is me. Welp back to Witcher 3.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:56
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precision posted:Why can't I reject the Chorus and the Disfavored both on purely pragmatic grounds (they're not doing their drat job) and help the Rebels without "joining" them (a country full of dead people is no use to Kyros)? My understanding is that the only way to do this is literally to say "gently caress Kyros, I'm taking over" which I also don't want to do. Also you can do exactly that and stab the rebels in the back later. Its just at that point everyone hates you because you betrayed them.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:58
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DoctorGonzo posted:No i didnt i was bored to death and the long loading times and the walls of texts sucked. I didnt like Pillars of Eternity either so maybe the problem is me. Welp back to Witcher 3. Fair enough. I didn't like Pillars of Eternity although that was more because the story and generic fantasy setting elements didn't grab me, but if you didn't like it or the old Infinity Engine games for being text-heavy and dense then this game's not going to be for you. You definitely do a lot of evil in it though, assuming you made it at least as far as the Disfavored camp (no idea how you wouldn't get at least there in an hour) they're the more regulated side and the next stop is the Scarlet Chorus camp who are basically an Orcish Horde of murder-rapists. The loading times do suck though and that's going to vary from person to person.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:59
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precision posted:Why can't I reject the Chorus and the Disfavored both on purely pragmatic grounds (they're not doing their drat job) and help the Rebels without "joining" them (a country full of dead people is no use to Kyros)? My understanding is that the only way to do this is literally to say "gently caress Kyros, I'm taking over" which I also don't want to do. You can do exactly this. If you join the rebels you can claim to be stringing them along, and it is unclear whether you are lying to the rebels or lying to Tunon. You can also join the rebels then betray them after you take Ascension Hall and I am fairly sure the independent path CAN be spun as "I am only loyal to Kyros", even if neither the Chorus, Disfavored or Rebels will see it that way. To be clear though even if Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus are incompetent assholes, they are the armies that Kyros has and if you refuse to work with both of them then obviously that's going to call your loyalty into question. Edit: poo poo, double-post. Sorry, I was going to add this to the last post.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:02
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Dolash posted:Fair enough. I didn't like Pillars of Eternity although that was more because the story and generic fantasy setting elements didn't grab me, but if you didn't like it or the old Infinity Engine games for being text-heavy and dense then this game's not going to be for you. You definitely do a lot of evil in it though, assuming you made it at least as far as the Disfavored camp (no idea how you wouldn't get at least there in an hour) they're the more regulated side and the next stop is the Scarlet Chorus camp who are basically an Orcish Horde of murder-rapists. Thanks for your awnswer. Exist a game when you can be a bad guy warlord ala Conan or something?
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Nov 17, 2016 01:02
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