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The Human Crouton posted:It is sad. The bones of a great game are there, but this might be a buy on first expansion game. At least better than V at release. This game has bones, it has flesh, it just is lacking a nervous system. V...well it had bones. It was the most fragile of skeleton warriors. VI at least gave us a nice, beefy zombie to play with.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:29
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6 is easily better at release than 4 and 5 were, but like with every other Civ game, you can't judge it until at least 2 expansions are out
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Nov 16, 2016 21:32
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I really like Civ6 and am eager to see how it develops from here.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:41
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I'm excited to see where it goes. The thing that I liked most about V was that by Brave New World, you could win and develop without needing to conquer your neighbors. Feels like I can't go 15 turns without somebody denouncing me or declaring war or both.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:43
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As somebody else pointed out, though, getting the game now may be many people's last chance to get the Deity-level achievement with the AI as-is. I've never had the inclination to skill up to the level where I could compete at the highest difficulties, but I got the achievement this time. I did Deity, religious victory only vs Kongo on a Duel map and it still took me three tries. That's how ungood at this game I am. Kongo is discovering Plastics in 840 AD and I'm still at pointed sticks and pleeease let me get this missionary across the board before you declare war again.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:53
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Does a wonder count as underdeveloped for the purposes of national parks?
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Nov 16, 2016 23:57
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I can confirm that great admirals like nothing more than Huey Teocali. It's like a magnet.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:14
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I love that all the initial reviews were absolutely glowing, no mention at all of the growing consensus that the terrible UI and AI drag the game down enormously. Video game journalism.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:37
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i81icu812 posted:I love that all the initial reviews were absolutely glowing, no mention at all of the growing consensus that the terrible UI and AI drag the game down enormously. Honestly don't think AI is THAT bad. It's certainly no worse than V I feel. But yeah, holy poo poo the UI problems.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:44
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Alkydere posted:Honestly don't think AI is THAT bad. It's certainly no worse than V I feel. V's AI was braindead. VI is completely incapable at combat. And can't upgrade units. Half a dozen archers and horsemen should not be running over deity AIs.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:50
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You can 100% cheese the "Diety" Acheevo by being Russia on a Map, and setting the Turn timer = 1 with Score Victory. More Tiles = More Score
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Nov 17, 2016 01:07
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i81icu812 posted:I love that all the initial reviews were absolutely glowing, no mention at all of the growing consensus that the terrible UI and AI drag the game down enormously. This is probably mostly because anyone who tells you that the UI and AI drag the game down enormously is being a big whiny baby, and it actually is a really good game. The problems aren't that severe and the game is already fun and interesting before the first patch. They definitely need to get that first patch out to fix the exploits, though. i81icu812 posted:Half a dozen archers and horsemen should not be running over deity AIs. Yeah, early game units should never ever be useful!
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Nov 17, 2016 01:08
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OfChristandMen posted:You can 100% cheese the "Diety" Acheevo by being Russia on a Map, and setting the Turn timer = 1 with Score Victory. Good to know but I am glad I didn't do it this way.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:16
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A diplomacy screen popped up with Trajan being a bro and offering a declaration of friendship, which I accepted. As soon as I close the window another diplomacy screen pops us with a pissed Trajan declaring war on me, with Gilgamesh right behind. This game is very confusing.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:21
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Alris posted:A diplomacy screen popped up with Trajan being a bro and offering a declaration of friendship, which I accepted. Sorry the AI fine as declared by IAmUnaware you big whiny baby.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:25
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VI is better than V at launch. I find it amusing that a bunch of people who are not recommending the game probably have 40+ hours in it. I do, I probably won't play again until an expansion but it was fun to play. If you like Civ get it, is a Civ game. If you wished you didn't touch V at all until a couple expansions consider holding off, I guess. Green man gaming has it for $48 right now, I don't think it will be on sale for anything less for over a year.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:50
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The AI has been chastised thoroughly, but even on Immortal I don't really fear the AI because I can always out maneuver them in combat. You kill the first wave of units, advance and fortify, wait for them to cheat and immediately spawn a new army, kill that army and slowly advance. My current issue is getting to Renaissance and not having any Niter for Gunpowder units, which means Walls feel indomitable. Anyone have any suggestions about how to deal with that? For example I had a Gorgo game where I squashed my neighbors and had an army of highly-experienced Hoplites and Archers that became Pikemen and Field Cannons. However, I had no Niter, so I couldn't make Musketmen or Bombards and there was 0 Niter anywhere near me. So I attack Gilgamesh, but against his walls, my units were very ineffective. I guess that the district defenses were ~41-48ish strength and just started decimating my Pikemen. I built a battering Ram and Siege Towers, but it didn't feel effective enough. Upgraded Field Cannons can definitely put a dent, but unless I have enough meat for city shots, my army feels very  I think the game could be vastly improved by allowing you to build buildings without having to build the districts first. You can build a library without a campus, but you won't have the Adjacency bonus/ Great People points without that district. At least maybe the first building (Barracks, Library, Workshop, Shrine, etc.). It just seems so silly to me that when I unlock Industrial Zones, i'm always priced in to building an IZ + Workshop immediately for the next ~30 turns. It seems pretty gimmicky that I can't build a shrine without a Holy Site, when all I want is a pantheon. You still have to commit the space to build it, which would help plan out districts, but I don't expect the idea to be popular. I wonder if they'll move into "hybrid" districts the same way the ideologies went hybrid in Rising Tide.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:58
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OfChristandMen posted:It seems pretty gimmicky that I can't build a shrine without a Holy Site, when all I want is a pantheon. The God-King policy gives +1 faith a turn.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:07
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I think Kongo is my favorite civ; their great people bonus and neighborhood replacement (which comes from guilds which I usually rush anyway) are really really good.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:08
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Lockback posted:VI is better than V at launch. I find it amusing that a bunch of people who are not recommending the game probably have 40+ hours in it. I do, I probably won't play again until an expansion but it was fun to play. I'm seeing 60 on GMG, is there some secret way to get a discount?
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Nov 17, 2016 02:16
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AI is clearly broken when I'm fighting warriors and chariots with infantry corps and machineguns, and this is not just one civ too. When are they fixing this poo poo?
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Nov 17, 2016 06:41
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So killing religious units will lower their influence in your closest cities? Whenever I'd wipe them out with a military unit I'd get a -150 for their religion in a few of my cities. Is there anything I can do about the AI flooding me with religious units and avoiding warmonger penalties? I told Tomyris not to convert my cities and she agreed. Then a few turns later about 15 wind up running rampant in my territory. My only option was a surprise war though. Who do you all find to be the best Civs for science victories?
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Nov 17, 2016 08:37
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silvergoose posted:I'm seeing 60 on GMG, is there some secret way to get a discount? I think it's only available outside the US.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:20
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http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/battlefield-1-civilization-vi-the-division-steep-open-beta-game-ready-driver A patch is coming "in the coming weeks". It could mean anything, really.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:40
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Colossal heads can be built on desert, so La Venta can give you a really killer city output if you have a good desert + Petra + put heads on everything. That's the only really good use I can think of but if the situation comes up it's great, I've done it once.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:57
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Apparently the AI loves joint wars and when they aren't agreeing to a flat deal it's because they think it's unfair that they aren't also giving you all their gold and great works in return for the privilege of fighting your war for you. Also theological combat is retarded when using the same combat strength calculations as normal melee combat. A +10 advantage is too huge. Some rear end in a top hat apostle from japan with the +10 theological combat promotion was headed towards my capital (of course with both the military and economic religious combat civics plus the little difficulty bonus) and apparently Japan's "units fight at full strength when injured" applies to apostles. So this guy would nuke my inquisitors for 91 damage every turn while taking 8 damage. I cycled, I ran, I teched to policies for religious warfare and theological combat bonuses and I still I lost 5 inquistors and 2 apostles before that one loving apostle died. Poor Saladin, religion is his whole game and the dude has no chance against Scythia/Japan just half-assing it with their bullshit UAs. Grand Fromage posted:Colossal heads can be built on desert, so La Venta can give you a really killer city output if you have a good desert + Petra + put heads on everything. That's the only really good use I can think of but if the situation comes up it's great, I've done it once.  I'm done with tall cities though. Look at all those wasted tile yields. Densely packed industrial/commercial/circus districts with trade routes out the rear end is the way to break the game. Who needs growth tile yields when you can pump the city pop with trade routes? All a filler city needs is like 6-9 pop max, it's all about having district adjacency with+to 4 other cities. Instead of building neighborhoods, try spamming more hiawatha cities. By that point tile yields are a thing of the past. Unfinished districts in construction give adjacency bonuses, that's really important to abuse when city-spamming. Putting 1 turn of production on a district and switching off it removes the adjacency bonus and also the district cost will continue to scale up as you finish techs. There were a few posters saying that district production cost was locked at whatever you started the district for, but they are wrong. District costs will continue scaling when you change production, you only keep the hammer progress.
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Nov 17, 2016 11:59
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Sanctum posted:Also theological combat is retarded when using the same combat strength calculations as normal melee combat. A +10 advantage is too huge. Some rear end in a top hat apostle from japan with the +10 theological combat promotion was headed towards my capital (of course with both the military and economic religious combat civics plus the little difficulty bonus) and apparently Japan's "units fight at full strength when injured" applies to apostles. So this guy would nuke my inquisitors for 91 damage every turn while taking 8 damage. I cycled, I ran, I teched to policies for religious warfare and theological combat bonuses and I still I lost 5 inquistors and 2 apostles before that one loving apostle died. Scythian apostles will also heal themselves whenever they kill one of yours.
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Nov 17, 2016 12:38
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Isnt that all helping the religious combat not stalemate with zillions of units? That's how my last game went, a sea of people shooting lighting at each other.
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Nov 17, 2016 12:47
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Tony Montana posted:Isnt that all helping the religious combat not stalemate with zillions of units? That's how my last game went, a sea of people shooting lighting at each other. It means randomly getting the +10 power promotion can give you a nearly insurmountable advantage. Like, 1 guy with that promotion and the right Civ bonuses can take on an arbitrary number of enemy religious units by themselves, and there is literally nothing the other player can choose to do about it. The problem is mostly that it's random. That said, against the AI anyway the best strategy is obviously to ignore it, let it try to convert your cities, and just Inquisition them back to your own religion after it kills itself.
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Nov 17, 2016 14:18
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Somewhere out there are players fondly remembering the time their apostle with +10 made it all the way to the enemy's capital and converted them before dying there in a glorious last stand. Given how easy it is to uproot other religions, I think religious combat is fine as is and is a subsystem you can either really engage with, really ignore (aside from taking somebody over if they're about to win), or just do an occasional inquisition if you don't want to have that religion everywhere.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:06
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Going to do a counter-vote and say that Civ VI is worth the buy. The UI is a big step backwards in a lot of ways and the AI sucks especially at combat (but also diplomacy is hosed), but overall it feels really good to make a civilization in this game. Planning ahead is rewarded and my progress feels tied to the ground I'm built on through adjacency bonuses and eurekas. If you liked culture victories in Civ V BTS then I'd say you'll enjoy this game. Not perfect at all but very fun.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:46
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There are good UI and AI mods.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:53
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silvergoose posted:I'm seeing 60 on GMG, is there some secret way to get a discount? If you login it shows the discount. They are not allowed to show the reduced price unless you are a "member" (membership is free). I am in MN, here is the price when I login: 
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Nov 17, 2016 16:12
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Another vote for "started better than V did" and while its needs some patching, its the same One More Turn fun as other Civ games. Minor Pro- I have like how much faster it runs late game turns. MUCH MUCH faster. Minor Con- for the love of god, while isn't there a sentry mode for units?
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Nov 17, 2016 17:11
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Tom Tucker posted:Going to do a counter-vote and say that Civ VI is worth the buy. The UI is a big step backwards in a lot of ways and the AI sucks especially at combat (but also diplomacy is hosed), but overall it feels really good to make a civilization in this game. Planning ahead is rewarded and my progress feels tied to the ground I'm built on through adjacency bonuses and eurekas. If you liked culture victories in Civ V BTS then I'd say you'll enjoy this game. Not perfect at all but very fun. Agree with most of this. I don't even have that much of an issue with the UI, it just needs some big quality of life fixes (and it's bafflingly obvious stuff that people are modding straight away). Diplomacy is obviously broken, but I think the system is more promising than it has been in the past and it's the first time I've felt like it has the potential to actually be an interesting part of the game... hopefully... at some point... but probably not. There are several systems that feel like they're only half done like religion and then stuff like tourism which feels like it's about a tenth done. Expansions I guess. The early to mid-game feels a lot more gamey an interactive and interesting than it has been in the past to me and I'd be happy if they leaned into that even more. The late game is a monotonous slog, but I have no idea how or if that will every not be in a Civ game.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:21
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I always thought that goons are being way too goony about "AI's are too irrational! (lmao get a mirror)" but Jesus Lord Allmighty this guy has done the impossible: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/199675900642818855/F70DD01084BD14D4B335773A4C58C53D33256B97/
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Nov 17, 2016 18:27
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Anybody looked at the Tourism lens? Pretty decent info about how you're generating it there.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:29
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Gravy Jones posted:Agree with most of this. I don't even have that much of an issue with the UI, it just needs some big quality of life fixes (and it's bafflingly obvious stuff that people are modding straight away). Diplomacy is obviously broken, but I think the system is more promising than it has been in the past and it's the first time I've felt like it has the potential to actually be an interesting part of the game... hopefully... at some point... but probably not. There are several systems that feel like they're only half done like religion and then stuff like tourism which feels like it's about a tenth done. Expansions I guess. The early to mid-game feels a lot more gamey an interactive and interesting than it has been in the past to me and I'd be happy if they leaned into that even more. The late game is a monotonous slog, but I have no idea how or if that will every not be in a Civ game. Im still kinda on the fence, but this all reads like a good arguments to wait, not to buy Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 18:46
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The thing about Firaxis is that they patch at a truly glacial rate. If you want to wait for the game to improve significantly you'll be measuring your wait in years.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:00
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Elias_Maluco posted:Im still kinda on the fence, but this all reads like a good arguments to wait, not to buy correct, you should not buy civilization 6. it could be a good game, if a lot of things were different. but they are not.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:02
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