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Ciaphas posted:Did I misread the intro and beginning areas? I thought Fatebinders were held above all Archons except Tunon in terms of enforcement so I've been being a snide rear end in a top hat in discussions with/about them Fatebinders are the law, but you might have to deal with an Archon via trial by combat and/or their huge loving army.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:09
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:You're a bureaucrat they have to answer to. You're not above their station, but they can't really do anything about you mouthing off to them. Well then I'm gonna keep being snide whatever I decide to do later because they're both being whiny babies 
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Nov 17, 2016 05:09
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Gravem Ashe is anything but a whiny baby, he's a good man who loves his troops and the Overlord's vision The Voices of Nerat can go suck a thousand dicks (and probably has ).
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Nov 17, 2016 05:16
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CommissarMega posted:The Voices of Nerat can go suck a thousand dicks (and probably has ). Have you seen his scepter? 
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Nov 17, 2016 05:19
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Have you seen his scepter? Who hasn't? 
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Nov 17, 2016 05:22
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CommissarMega posted:Hell, I don't think the Voices trusts himself, no joke. I've already encountered several times where he explicitly hints as much to you. Kontradaz posted:I don't think these goons believe in irreversible decisions, it doesn't compute for them. Games that don't let you do everything and join every faction and see every location in one playthrough are flawed in their eyes. Zore posted:Yeah, people always bitch there aren't 'real consequences' for your actions. And then when there are they bitch they can't do everything and change their mind at any time and also the game should account for the fact my character is actually Both of you are engaging in ad hominem, do you really think that's the best way to have this conversation? And since I'm one of the people that kicked this off today, I'll also amend that neither of you are actually even paying attention to what I'm saying, so you're also doing Reducto Ad Absurdum. C'mon now.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:41
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CommissarMega posted:Gravem Ashe is anything but a whiny baby, he's a good man who loves his troops and the Overlord's vision Dunno he seems awfully goddamn easy to needle going on my first meeting with him
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Nov 17, 2016 05:43
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Ze Pollack posted:You sided with the Disfavored. The rail roading is mostly that every dialog went from having like 5 choices down to like 1 or 2. I wonder if the reputation just completely cements all your options and it's just that I had qualifiers turned off. There's quite a few side stuff where you take a character voice that wasn't the one I decided on Act 1. Like sometimes you actually end up being really nice when you probably didn't want to. One that super stuck out to me was when one of my own allies in act 2 raised a bridge on me cause they were very unhappy about a conquest decision I made before the game. When I finally crossed the bridge I wasn't given the option to say anything at that point. The game just resumed as if nothing had happened.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:52
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Wait what the gently caress Verse never died in my game??? I thought she blew up when Ashe got mad at Faces but the ending screen shows her leaving my company eventually...What the hell dudes was that just a major bug in my game?
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Nov 17, 2016 05:59
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precision posted:Well I just think in this game it's done at times and in ways that are kind of really bad, and from what I understand I haven't even gotten to the worst of it yet. Nerat ate his son's brain. It is a fate worse than death. You are allying with the guy who ate his son. He's the guy all the Disfavored super love to the point where his caring about them heals mortal wounds. You are allying with the guy who ate their super beloved commander's son. It's not that weak, it makes total sense.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:05
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Midnight Voyager posted:Nerat ate his son's brain. It is a fate worse than death. You are allying with the guy who ate his son. He's the guy all the Disfavored super love to the point where his caring about them heals mortal wounds. You are allying with the guy who ate their super beloved commander's son. Did... did you even read what I said? It definitely makes sense to reset Graven Ashe's Favor to zero, but it seems arbitrary to reset Favor with everyone else in the army, especially since the first thing you say there is a thing that even Tunon doesn't know until you tell him. And also, why reset Favor to zero for the faction you don't choose, but not reset Fear for the faction you do choose? The Favor/Fear system seems to promise you that it will be a system that makes sense (maybe the only one in the metagame) but then, instead of just giving you a ton of Favor loss, it just resets. I had like level 5 Favor with the Disfavored, knock me back to level 1 or something but just setting it back to zero feels like Obsidian cheating.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:12
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precision posted:Did... did you even read what I said? It definitely makes sense to reset Graven Ashe's Favor to zero, but it seems arbitrary to reset Favor with everyone else in the army, especially since the first thing you say there is a thing that even Tunon doesn't know until you tell him. it makes complete sense it resets the defavored favor to zero. they literally idolize the dude, and if he says you're an enemy than by god you're an enemy. e: misread this part. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 06:19
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Roobanguy posted:it makes complete sense it resets the defavored favor to zero. they literally idolize the dude, and if he says you're an enemy than by god you're an enemy. e: misread this part. No, it makes sense to give you a massive hit to Favor, not to put the developer's hand on the scale.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:31
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should i just give barik a 2h
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Nov 17, 2016 06:38
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precision posted:No, it makes sense to give you a massive hit to Favor, not to put the developer's hand on the scale. Have you finished the game, or at least exhausted the missive conversation between you and Fatebinder Myothis? Because the implications behind Archons and their power sources might provide an explanation. Verviticus posted:should i just give barik a 2h Yeah, I didn't find shields to be of much use to be honest, even for tanky characters. You should protect your characters with spells, not shields.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:43
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precision posted:No, it makes sense to give you a massive hit to Favor, not to put the developer's hand on the scale. You really haven't been paying attention to the fact that the Disfavored are
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Nov 17, 2016 06:43
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Verviticus posted:should i just give barik a 2h Yes
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Nov 17, 2016 06:44
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Captain Oblivious posted:You really haven't been paying attention to the fact that the Disfavored are Not only that, but one where the belief might flow both ways, unlike the Chorus. Remember, Archons' powers are based on what people believe about them, and Graven Ashe's legend explicitly revolves around his troops loving him as much as he loves them. His daughter had to suffer
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Nov 17, 2016 06:48
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Captain Oblivious posted:You really haven't been paying attention to the fact that the Disfavored are Not just the Disfavored, all of the Archons are running cults. Except for Sirin, but that's because she's on an internship program with Voices. Not that that stops her from sneaking off and convincing people to worship her whenever she can. Oh, and Bleden, but he just uses Tunon's cult. Archon's powers apparently come from their legends, so yeah. They all build cults around themselves to sustain their powers.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:52
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Aw you're spoiling one of the missives with that one. The missives are pretty cool.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:53
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Rascyc posted:Aw you're spoiling one of the missives with that one. The missives are pretty cool. Sorry, I don't remember that missive. But just paying any attention when talking to followers of one of the Archons makes it pretty clear that they're all cult leaders. The Fatebinders might be less obvious about it but they consider Tunon's Judgement to be just as sacred as a Disfavored does Graven Ashe's Protection. And don't get me started on the Scarlet Chorus and their human sacrifice thing.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:59
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It's like the fifth one into Fatebinder Myothis' missive chain which they explain the archons. If you look at Commisar's post above, the spoiled text comes from that. There's a lot of exposition in Fatebinder Myothis' missive. I'd feel bad for anyone who missed them.
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Nov 17, 2016 07:12
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Man, I'm sad as hell that After the end of the game, Lantry starts feeling his age and he can't really keep up as your chronicler. I kind of figured every companion was on the road to Archondom and thus could be your eternal murderbuddies
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Nov 17, 2016 07:21
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So what I'm getting from those posts is that the PC of this game is literally the only servant of an Archon who has any free will at all? The way the system works, [Insufficient Reputation] seems to gate every character with an affiliation behind a wall, which isn't exactly fun. It would be nice if it were possible to pick the Disfavored all throughout Conquest and every part of Act 1 except the final choice and have a few Disfavored you meet be like "Oh hey, it's the guy everyone hates, personally I always thought you sounded alright, one decision shouldn't outweigh all the others". Don't get me wrong this is a really good game, but it's clear they mishandled the "CHOOSE A PATH OKAY NOW YOU ARE ON THAT MOTHERFUCKER FULL TIME" part.
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Nov 17, 2016 07:22
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I don't remember previous Obsidian threads being so lazy with spoilers
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Nov 17, 2016 07:25
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precision posted:So what I'm getting from those posts is that the PC of this game is literally the only servant of an Archon who has any free will at all? No, they're just Cultists. It's not magically enforced or anything. Hell, Verse would be happy as pie to see the Voices get killed. She's an enthusiastic member of the cult, but she's got no love for the glorious leader. Though Tunon does seem to go lighter on the indoctrination than the other Archons. Probably because Fatebinders need to be able to actually think for themselves. Especially the ones like you who are cross trained as assassins by Bleden Mark Stroth fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 07:28
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precision posted:So what I'm getting from those posts is that the PC of this game is literally the only servant of an Archon who has any free will at all? It's...a war dude. Why in hells name would your hypothetical Disfavored engage in what is effectively treason against their General and literal object of worship like you are describing. You have sided against them in a war in the situation you describe. This is without even getting into the fact that the Disfavored are ethnic supremacist assholes to begin with and the only thing that makes them put up with you is, at first, being a Fatebinder and later being in Graven Ashes confidence.
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Nov 17, 2016 07:29
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's...a war dude. Why in hells name would your hypothetical Disfavored engage in what is effectively treason against their General and literal object of worship like you are describing. You have sided against them in a war in the situation you describe. But the one decision that makes all this true, that puts you on a path, is not a good one. Your decision is a call in one maneuver of this war. It's not Tunon asking "So, which army am I gonna install you with?" at the end of Act 1. It's not Tunon saying "Well, the total tally of your actions in Act 1 would suggest you sided with the Chorus more than the Disfavored. So you work for them now, okay?" Those would be major improvements over having what seems like a fairly minor decision to show a small amount of favor towards one or another army become the only thing that matters for deciding how both armies treat you for the rest of the game.
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Nov 17, 2016 07:41
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It IS a pretty big decision though, and considering you're choosing which cult leader gets a shitton of glory in a very public manner, as well as tipping over years of tension over into a boiling point, it makes sense that there'd be dramatic repercussions. This isn't choosing who gets the first pick of the fried chicken in the mess hall, you're telling the person you chose that they deserve the very public honour of stamping out the last rebellion to Kyros, or at least drawing first blood, and ending an Edict that would ravage two armies. There is also implication that whoever does so would have the honour of becoming the ruler of the Tiers- Tunon just serves Kyros's law, Bleden Mark is an executioner, and at that point you're just a rando fatebinder. Only one Archon would be able to shape the Tiers in their image, and with a single sentence you've just put the deciding vote in.Stroth posted:Though Tunon does seem to go lighter on the indoctrination than the other Archons. Probably because Fatebinders need to be able to actually think for themselves. Especially the ones like you who are cross trained as assassins by Bleden Mark This is kind of a big spoiler, so I'm still spoiling it: I really liked how surprised Tunon is at the end if... 'he' finds you innocent. There's a big implication that Human Tunon still exists and has free will (or at least his own opinion on things), but also that Archon Tunon is the one doing the driving. It's really cool, and something that deserves exploration when the DLC or sequels come out. CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 07:49
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It did feel like that scene should have been a bit more fleshed out at the time I played it though. I thought my opposing pick was overreacting when I made my choice, and I didn't have a good explanation afterwards as to why this had just happened. I felt like what I learned in act 2 added more clarity though.
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Nov 17, 2016 07:53
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Siding with the Voices of Nerat should at least have some incentive, like forbidden lore, spells or a fancy plot to overthrow all the other Archons (there seem to be a lot of these guys if you pay attention to the lore and dialogues). Instead it feels like dumping fresh victims into Buffalo Bill's cellar dungeon, so he gets more parts for his skin suit. If I go all-out psycho then I want to be the top psycho and not just the delivery boy for Hannibal Lector.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:21
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I dunno, it was pretty clear to me during the end argument when the Voices mentioned wanting the glory of tasking Ascension Hall. Besides, all the choices during the latter two thirds of the Conquest should have made it more than obvious that the two sides were going to come to a reckoning sooner or later. That being said, the Conquest didn't really sell the idea that the Chorus are a bunch of raving psychos, in my opinion.Hammerstein posted:Siding with the Voices of Nerat should at least have some incentive, like forbidden lore, spells or a fancy plot to overthrow all the other Archons (there seem to be a lot of these guys if you pay attention to the lore and dialogues). You can do this, albeit later in the game  EDIT: I've got a question of my own- how do I get Bleden Mark on my side in the Disfavoured path? Can I even do so? CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 08:22
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Is there enough difference in playthroughs to justify jumping back in? Kinda want to do an independent run but I don't mind putting it on the backburner if it's basically spinning the same wheels just with more combat. Not expecting drastically different scenarios or anything of course.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:28
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There is quite a difference between the Disfavoured and rebel playthroughs, at least by my standards. Considering the Chorus's tolerance and eagerness to recruit people, I suppose there should be a difference between the Disfavoured and Chorus playthroughs, but I wouldn't touch the Voices with a ten-foot pole unless there's a sharp bit of metal at the end.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:30
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Basic Chunnel posted:I don't remember previous Obsidian threads being so lazy with spoilers Yeah, no kidding. Spoilers don't bother me much but I'm surprised how loose this thread is with them because there are legitimately cool lore/unraveling moments in the game
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Nov 17, 2016 08:31
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Is there enough difference in playthroughs to justify jumping back in? Kinda want to do an independent run but I don't mind putting it on the backburner if it's basically spinning the same wheels just with more combat. Not expecting drastically different scenarios or anything of course. Definitely worth 2-3 playthroughs with different choices. I'm a picky sperg when it comes to rpgs and this is the first game since Dragon Age that I want to play through more than once.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's...a war dude. Why in hells name would your hypothetical Disfavored engage in what is effectively treason against their General and literal object of worship like you are describing. You have sided against them in a war in the situation you describe. See, from a narrative standpoint, that makes sense. From a gameplay standpoint, though, why even have the drat reputation system for them if it's primarily irrelevant? This is my problem with the game. I like it for the most part. I enjoy the setting, I enjoy the premise, I enjoy the way they elected to have a bunch of small decisions come back and influence the way people react to and view you, I enjoy the idea that you are not the lone altruist in a horrible world. But at the same time it feels the implementation of these things is far from complete or ideal. It introduces a reputation system but largely makes it irrelevant, and in those cases where it is relevant it's easily-gamed. Sometimes the decisions you make will impact the games in ways you couldn't foresee--not in the sense of far-reaching consequences, but in the sense of the consequence itself being arbitrary or not necessarily being directly related to the decision you made. The siloing off of content is also a pretty cheap way to try and encourage replays, especially when you can encourage that well enough with the knock-on effects Conquest has. And then we have the third act, introducing a mechanic you don't really use for the five minutes you have it and then the game ends. It's a good game, and goodness knows it'll get some replays out of me, but the whole experience feels like it falls short of the potential of its ideas, and the things it does best it doesn't go in far enough on.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:41
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Okay WHERE THE gently caress is the Hound's Hide Mantle? I have been literally everywhere, where is this hiding?
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Nov 17, 2016 09:08
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The reputation system is not irrelevant. The three armies in Act One are just three of the factions amongst many, and while the ones you snub might be in hate-you-forever territory, the one you choose isn't automatically your best friend either and you can still curry favor or wrath with them in order to tip future decisions. I can agree with parts of your critique (little-used Edict mechanic) and disagree with others ("siloing off" content by making you make some actual decisions about what to address and where to go), but the reputation system is generally pretty well-implemented and a few people on each playthrough becoming your sworn enemies isn't disproof of that.Hammerstein posted:Siding with the Voices of Nerat should at least have some incentive, like forbidden lore, spells or a fancy plot to overthrow all the other Archons (there seem to be a lot of these guys if you pay attention to the lore and dialogues). I assume being the delivery boy for Hannibal Lector is the appeal of the Chorus route, so that people playing a game called Tyranny with the tagline "evil wins" can see where the low end of the morality scale is set. If you want to play someone so evil you make Kyros look good by comparison, join the Chorus, with every intention of taking them over one day.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:11
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Am I wrong in primarily looking at recovery when it comes to equipment for spellcasters? Batik is really the only non-spellcaster I am using, so pretty much every item I find is useless because it would make casting slower.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:20
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