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My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. About a year ago we caught her sending nude videos of herself to an online "boyfriend" in another region of the country. We immediately removed her from all devices that can access the internet. She's gotten them back and lost them several times since then, and she's not been trusted with a cell phone since then. We also began taking her to see a family therapist/LCSW around this time. Soon after, we discovered that she was sexually active--we took her to get long-term contraception. We're not idiots and we know that she's going to make choices that we don't approve of. Her grades nose-dived when she entered high school this year, but she had turned that situation around, and we were starting to discuss the idea of her having a phone again. Then, two weeks ago, we found out that she was doing smoking weed and dabbing with her friends. She used her money from grades to buy some, and when that ran out, she stole money from her grandfather's wallet. So, we did everything we could to remove her from that situation--she's not allowed out alone, and the friends involved aren't welcome here. We signed her up yesterday for an art class with other kids her age--anything to get her away from the kids in our neighborhood and interacting with people who have a care about their future. We don't blame her friends for her misbehavior, but at this point it's an issue of her safety--I don't think she's easily led around. Then, yesterday evening, she snuck out. She rode her bike--somewhere, she still won't tell us where. She was gone for around an hour. Another $40 is missing from her grandfather's wallet. She claims she took it a week ago, and gave it to her friend/dealer, but hasn't been able to make a pickup yet (this friend was away yesterday when she snuck out --school concert, verified on their webpage). I'm at my wit's end here. She's essentially told us that we've run out of levers we can push ourselves--and she's not entirely wrong. We're hitting the limtis of what we can actually control without doing something drastic. I'm sitting here mulling over next steps, and I don't know what's going to work. She can go live with her other grandparents, who are retired, a few hundred miles away. This would get her away from her friends that always seem to be involved in her poor decisions, but there's no guarantee that they wouldn't just be put in the same kind of position. We could move somewhere in a few months--maybe a fresh start would help. We could call the police--on her or her dealer/friend. Maybe she needs to see how little the rest of the world cares before she can appreciate how much we do. We can take away her hobbies until things improve--horseback riding being the big one. We can just let her stew like this for a while--direct defiance may be less attractive after a month of no internet. We've gotten stuck in a cycle where it seems that no matter what the boundaries are, she steps outside of them, and we're terrified at where this is all going, or has already gone. We're not sleeping, we can't focus, and we're having difficulty being there for our 4-y/o, and I don't see any clear way that this gets better.  Sorry if this is the wrong thread but a quick search didn't seem to reveal anywhere more appropriate to post this.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:56
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My midwife told us a similar story about her 14 year old. They ended up sending her to homestay in Japan for a year. Being outside her comfort zone and having to be self sufficient and I guess having an interest in the language and culture really turned things around for the kid. I don't know if this would work for yours, I imagine every teen is a bit different. These situations sound incredibly hard, and I'd be heart broken in your position too...i'm hoping things look up for you and your family soon.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:01
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Udelar posted:My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. I don't have any experience with what you're dealing with, but I just wanted to say that it seems like you're doing a good job of setting boundaries and ensuring consequences for her. It's a tough situation. You may have already done this, but from your post it sounds like a lot of your conversations with her have become confrontations - is there a way to have a calm discussion about your expectations of her and her expectations of you? This could be a chance to very clearly lay out the cause and effect of each action (eg stealing or sneaking out = no more horse riding for a month, good grades = being able to be round her friends in a supervised environment).
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Nov 16, 2016 22:24
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Udelar posted:My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. The only thing I would say is that I would think really carefully about involving the authorities. You let a genie out of the bottle that you cant control and the consequences might not be what you want. Sneaking out, stealing money, smoking pot, and having sex is obviously not awesome, but involving the justice system can have far-reaching consequences. End up with a conviction and not eligible for FAFSA? Child protective services launching a lengthy investigation? A criminal record that will affect employment? I would be really hesitant to involve the police and would try and find more help via entities that have your child's best interests at heart.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:08
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Chin Strap posted:And now my wife is asking me to come home early because it is nothing but pissed off now. We know it is because she needs a nap, but she is fighting naps so hard the past few weeks. We have kept with our normal nap routine, but at least 2-3 times a week we just can't get a nap out of her and it results in being her pissed off all afternoon. We have started resorting to driving her a bit in the car which often got her down, but now she is so pissed from being tired that we can't even get her in the seat to do that. Any ideas? Can she babywear? What age are we talking about again? Most kids will pass out while being worn, unless we're talking about a 4-year old or something. Can she get in a stroller and walk her around the block? Can she sit in a dark room with her and a white noise machine on and ignore her while on her phone or something? Or snuggle with her and sing songs, that worked for me a lot when I only had one. Dreams by Fleetwood Mac makes a great lullaby.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:23
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Udelar posted:My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. I can't exactly offer decent advice, but all I can say is that when I was growing up my younger sister went through precisely the exact same thing, and it wasn't a phase that ended. I'm going to lay out the bad; she probably contributed to my parents divorce and my mother's stress problems, living with my mother she's hosted parties where people have trashed the place and stolen things while home alone, she's constantly "borrowed" money from family and friend alike and burns every bridge she's made, skipped school all the time... you get the idea. Nowadays she has a 5 year old daughter (I love my niece, she's great) and lives with her lovely boyfriend my family (and me) hates, however the gravity of caring for a child stabilized her a bit. She's still a complete loving idiot and my parents still bail her out of her retardation all the time, but less so than her teen years. I can't and wouldn't speak for you or your daughter of course, but looking back at things I would've taken a greatly sterner hand than my folks did and put my sister in boarding school, or at worst military school.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:20
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GlyphGryph posted:I don't know of any good books, but if you want specific advice I can provide that. I appreciate everyone that replied to this. I've pretty much been winging this whole parenting thing, and if there's one thing that I certainly could have done better, it would have been to ask these questions a year ago. Anyway, better late than never, I suppose. As far as our day-to-day goes, I think we have the framework for a solid routine. My wife is about to make a slight schedule change in the next week, so I'm going to write this as it will be and not how it is now. The baby is pretty good about adapting and I don't see the change being an issue. Work days: •7-9 am: morning routine- breakfast, get dressed, mom leaves for work •10 am: snack, morning nap •1230 pm: lunch •130 pm: afternoon nap •3 pm: afternoon snack •530 pm: dinner •730 pm: evening routine- bath, bottle, bed So what I'm asking about here specifically is the time between all of that. Like I said, we do a lot of fun little things like read and play and all that fun stuff. But some days I just don't have any ideas, and at the end of the day I feel like we didn't do anything valuable with our time. Some days we are really active, and some days I catch myself trying to knock out a chore or peeking at my phone while she's screaming in the next room. We adhere the above schedule fairly well. It goes out the window a bit when she visits grandparents, but for the most part we run like a clock. Non-work days tend to have roughly the same schedule, but are a bit more nebulous. My wife has 3 days off, so we each take sort of a personal day where the other is expected to do most of the baby work, and one family day where we share duties. The impression that I get from reading this thread (and replies to my post) is that we aren't getting outside of the house enough. I do like to walk when the weather is ok, but I don't really have a lot of go-to activities outside of the house. She does spend at least an afternoon, sometimes two, at a grandparents house every weekend. That gets her a little change of pace and gives me a much needed break. I am probably going to have a difficult time getting her socialized as well. My wife stopped being friends with the only people we know with a child her age because they disagreed about the election. No big loss to me, but I'm a huge introvert and the idea of play dates and having to make small talk with other parents is not exactly my idea of fun, but I'm sure I'll get over it out of necessity. That's about the gist of it so far. I appreciate the feedback. 
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Nov 17, 2016 05:38
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the good fax machine posted:No big loss to me, but I'm a huge introvert and the idea of play dates and having to make small talk with other parents is not exactly my idea of fun, but I'm sure I'll get over it out of necessity. I lucked out, I found a few parents I actually like hanging out with and it was a bonus that they had kids. We often spend hours chatting with each other while the kids play together, and I desperately need it as I spend the bulk of my day interacting with children. I talk people's ears off if they let me, as I find myself longing for adult conversation. Now that our kids are in school we simply don't have the time to hang out which is a bummer. But I spend all my time these days driving kids back and forth to school, doing dishes and helping with homework. Wee! Do you live in a small town? Do you have any hobbies that are kid friendly? You are probably looking at losing the morning nap soon, you might want to look into somewhere to spend the morning hours. Gymboree and My Gym are good options for socializing, though pricey. There are lots of small playgroups and indoor playgrounds, if you are somewhere where winter sucks. Are you guys planning on another? That will also drastically change the dynamic!
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Nov 17, 2016 07:51
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You might want to look into local libraries or community centers. Our community center has a 'toddler hour' every weekday where kids who are too young for school can come in and get to play with all the stuff in the gym (balls, beanbags, a collection of pushtoys and riding cars). Libraries often have a story hour or toddler time, often more than one event a week for different age ranges and interests. We basically get outside every day we are home with the kids. Keep in mind that especially with small kids, you don't have to go anywhere in particular. Sometimes our outings are just beetling around in the back yard, sometimes it's walking to the local store to buy milk or other essentials. I remember going for a 'walk' with my son that actually consisted of moving maybe 30 feet down the sidewalk while he examined all the cracks, walls, and trees, and we talked about things like moss growing on walls or how grass gets into cracks.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:45
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Yeah, gonna second that it looks like you don't have any regularly scheduled "out of house" time and that's an issue. As you hit the 1 year milestone, you're basically going to want to start ramping up exposure to the world, opportunities to learn and discover and experiment. So I'd suggest slotting a few of the following: 1. Out-of-house time. Playgrounds, rooting through the leaves in the woods, zoos, community center events with other kids, toddler gyms. I don't know what it's like where you are, but around here we have a really awesome local Children's Museum that's basically an enormous playground full of a variety of things my toddler loved, and plenty of new stuff to discover as he gets older. He'd be more than happy to go every week. He also really just likes going for walks - endless walks. And he knows which way leads back home, and he wants to go any way BUT that way, forever! So we do that pretty often too, with the stroller when he was younger since he might get tired pretty quickly, with a wagon when he got a bit older (he liked pulling the wagon himself when he wasn't riding in it), and he's just getting started on a balance bike now that he's almost two. Playgrounds are probably the easiest to do, and we spend a lot of time at ours since it's fenced in and i can basically let him do his thing, but obviously things might vary. I encourage him to get outside his comfort zone, and around 1 year is when he started actively climbing things. 2. Pattern recognition and language acquisition. If there's one thing this age is built around, it's learning new things - and rapidly. It's a good age to start doing sign language, and by the time he was 18 months old watching and mimicking sign language videos was one of mine's favorite things, and he knows a bunch of them (and is to the point where he's picking them up after a single demonstration). At 1yr old, you're probably just looking at exposure unless you have an early language learned, but exposure doesn't help, and it's a good opportunity to practice consistently using signs yourself. It's not just language, though - this is a good time to start playing simple games. It's about the age mine started putting together basic block puzzles (put this shape into this hole), and he quickly progressed to more and more complicated varieties (mostly on the tablet, admittedly). He also liked playing picture matching games, and having me draw pictures for him to recognize and name or make the sound of. "bottle", "car car", "bow wow", "mooo", "ech ech" (that's the sound he's convinced birds make). 3. Creative activities. This is a good age to start doing basic creative activities with them as well - building stacks of blocks, and structures, drawing pictures, putting stickers on paper. They won't always want to be involved themselves, sometimes they'll be happy just to watch, but they're still learning and will eventually be helping. It's a good time to teach important things like "only draw on paper". Mine couldn't do crayons because he just wasn't willing or able to put the pressure behind them, but he loves drawing loops and lines and circles with a mechanical pencil, and by the time he was 1yr8months he was actually labelling them, pointing at them and going "airplane!" or "doggy!" (they did not look like airplanes or doggies, don't expect too much) 4. Helping and Emulating. Around 1yr is when we had ours start doing "chores" (when he was interested in doing them, which was common). At first he just got to stand nearby while we were, say, doing dishes. Eventually we would include him, by doing things like having one person give him a spoon to pass on to the other person. Now (22 months) he can actually load and unload the bottom rack of the dishwasher himself if we hand him the dishes (although we will have to fix it afterwards). Same goes for sweeping the floor, doing laundry, raking and bagging leaves, carrying things from one room to another, throwing things out, etc. This is an important year to get them used to the idea of doing productive activities and working with you on daily tasks. Just remember that even though their "contributions" will probably be actively harmful to the speed and efficiency with which you do these tasks, it's also an opportunity for them to "play" and "learn" in a productive way (and hopefully it will pay off down the road) 5. Play games. You're probably on top of this, but in case you start running out of ideas here is a few mine liked a lot: Hide and Seek (me hiding, him seeking), Box Tag (change off putting a box over your/their head and chasing each other around), Blanket Drag (they lie on a blanket and you drag them around the house) and Jump Off Things (teach them the sign for jump, and be really consistent about them having to use it or you will eventually regret this one.)
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Nov 17, 2016 16:35
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VorpalBunny posted:Can she babywear? What age are we talking about again? Most kids will pass out while being worn, unless we're talking about a 4-year old or something. 19 months. We still baby wear a lot. When she is that pissed off my wife cant even get a diaper on by her self let alone get her in the carrier. Strong toddler is strong We'll keep experimenting.
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Nov 17, 2016 17:38
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I don't recommend gamma rays
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Nov 17, 2016 19:44
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the good fax machine posted:
I think life gets a lot easier when kids go down to one afternoon nap. My first and I fell into an easy routine then of some morning activity (mommy and me school, My Gym, Music Together, play group, etc.), then lunch, then nap, then home chill time until my SO got home.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:06
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Udelar posted:My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. Is....your daughter my stepdaughter?????? This is exactly what we went through from 12 - 14, however ours also included self harm. She's 15 now (will be 16 in April), and has gotten somewhat better. It's certainly not perfect, but it has gotten better than it was. I have no advice because it almost broke me and my wife (by broke I mean broke our brains and our relationship, and it has permanently damaged my relationship with my in-laws, because the grandfather was a key enabler of some of the behavior). we actually did, as that earlier poster alluded to, end up dealing with CPS 2 or 3 times over the course of those 2 years and it was AWFUL). big trivia FAIL fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 23:30
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Chin Strap posted:And now my wife is asking me to come home early because it is nothing but pissed off now. We know it is because she needs a nap, but she is fighting naps so hard the past few weeks. We have kept with our normal nap routine, but at least 2-3 times a week we just can't get a nap out of her and it results in being her pissed off all afternoon. We have started resorting to driving her a bit in the car which often got her down, but now she is so pissed from being tired that we can't even get her in the seat to do that. Any ideas? I have an 18.5 month old daughter. For me, "sequencing" really helps. Another parent basically posted the same thing but it's telling them that you're going to do the thing they don't want to do followed by something (anything you can think of) that they want to do. For example, after playgroup today I knew my daughter wouldn't want to get in her car seat. So I said "now we're going to do your buckles (the only thing she likes about the car seat so that's what we call getting in) and then eat some goldfish." It was snack time anyway, but I'll also use going to the park, see puppy (a favorite stuffed animal who lives in the car), see Daddy, etc. I really feel for your wife because when they don't nap and are overtired it's so frustrating. I don't have the option of calling my husband because he's in a car pool. Usually at that point I take her to the park and just let her run it out/be frustrated. We talk about how she's feeling bad because she didn't nap and I comfort her if she cries. Eventually she settles down and then falls asleep in the car on the way home. Does your wife take her to the park in the morning/get her a lot of exercise? We do at least 1.5 hours outside in the morning because it makes her very tired. (We live in California so I appreciate that some climates aren't as outdoor-friendly right now...)
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Nov 18, 2016 00:06
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Udelar posted:My 14-y/o is turning 15 this month and I'm afraid to leave her alone any more. Sucks man, I'll be interested in hearing what does or does not work. My thoughts are all theoretical at this point, but open-ended "until I'm not pissed off anymore" punishments aren't that effective. People can get used to all kinds of deprivation, and as you have already found, when there isn't anything good left to take away you are out of handles. I don't think any punishment that lasts longer than a week is likely to be that useful. Feel free to blow the poo poo out of This weekend every time she screws up, but leave the prospect of next weekend as a carrot for your stick. In terms of the sex and drugs...I wouldn't leave my kid alone, and would probably assign a phone as a snitch. If the phone isn't where it is supposed to be when it is supposed to be there all week, your weekend just got ruined. Schedule her from 7am till dinner. My 7th grader doesn't get off the activity bus till 5:30 most days, and it isn't like we are tiger-parenting him or like he has a brutal load. Just one after school sport and one academic club will chew up a bunch of spare hours. It isn't hard, or even unusual to make sure that your mid-teen is never out of sight of an in loco parentis adult. Whenever she 'forgets' her phone in her locker, or goes to the corner store rather than math club, her weekend is going to be doing yardwork and scrubbing kitchen floors. Talking to a shrink? Impulsivity and dumb-decision making can respond to ADHD meds, or lithium sometimes. My folks sent me to military camp one year...that was...interesting. Met kids with much bigger, much more hosed up problems, and much bigger more hosed up parents than mine. Had a lot of fun, really, but didn't go back when I didn't gently caress up as bad the next year. Also sent me for a year abroad, which was a good place for me to play hooky and gently caress up without my family being around to be annoyed. Main advantage of that was being a year older when I got back, I think. Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 00:42
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Im beginnig to think my poor guy will be on pedialite forever. Tummy bugs end eventually right? Right?!
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Nov 18, 2016 17:31
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Chin Strap posted:What you are describing is positive reinforcement training like you would use with dogs. Maybe that is a good analogy for teaching toddlers. Yeah, I know it is. I learned it over the years from working with dogs and horses. Turns out it's SUPER effective with toddlers, too. Like, really super effective. Kiddo hasn't tantrumed at me in like a month now (but has blown up on her dad who doesn't do positive reinforcement several times.)
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Nov 18, 2016 18:35
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kirsty posted:I don't have any experience with what you're dealing with, but I just wanted to say that it seems like you're doing a good job of setting boundaries and ensuring consequences for her. It's a tough situation. I think that before we can talk about consequences, we need to talk about what a return to the status quo entails. E-Money posted:The only thing I would say is that I would think really carefully about involving the authorities. You let a genie out of the bottle that you cant control and the consequences might not be what you want. Sneaking out, stealing money, smoking pot, and having sex is obviously not awesome, but involving the justice system can have far-reaching consequences. End up with a conviction and not eligible for FAFSA? Child protective services launching a lengthy investigation? A criminal record that will affect employment? I would be really hesitant to involve the police and would try and find more help via entities that have your child's best interests at heart. Very good point. I've discussed these consequences with her, and let her know that this is something we can do. She literally doesn't believe that any of this would happen. I don't want to turn the system against her, but if it's going to happen eventually, she might like those consequences better than the ones that come with more severe criminal behavior. As far as she is concerned, her behavior is entirely normal, something everyone does, and we are over-reacting. "I am safe when I'm with my friends!" "We don't trust your judgement about whether or not you are safe." Super Slash posted:I can't exactly offer decent advice, but all I can say is that when I was growing up my younger sister went through precisely the exact same thing, and it wasn't a phase that ended. She's not skipping school, she's definitely not hosting parties. If she starts skipping school things will need to be reassessed immediately--GA is a state where parents can be fined and jailed for their child's truancy. She still clearly cares about school. big trivia FAIL posted:Is....your daughter my stepdaughter?????? No signs of self-harm--She'll get angry, slam doors, and tell us she's not going along with whatever we say, but we haven't had problems along those lines. Slo-Tek posted:Sucks man, I'll be interested in hearing what does or does not work. Isn't this just normalizing her behavior? If stealing money, sneaking off, and smoking hash oil is worth a weekend, what's heroin worth? My worry is that she is playing around with things that have serious real-world repercussions, and our ability to protect her from those is severely limited. She's convinced that her choices have no downside and that we are just old, out-of-touch parents that have no place getting in the way of her (to her) ordinary teenage fun. Her therapist hasn't mentioned that she'd like her to go to a psychiatrist, so I don't think that's where we should be going. I work from home, so she is always around one of us--her friends aren't coming around, and she's in general not going over there--though who knows where she went the one time that she was able to get away. A big problem is that her friends' parents are simply not trustworthy--we've made arrangements for her to go over there, asked whether an adult will be there the entire time, and then been told later that they all left the teenagers unsupervised to go to the store. For two of them, their "dealer" is in fact an adult relative living in the house with them. Any supervision has to be US. If it's a matter of getting her out of this situation, my mother can do that--we aren't in a professional place where we can pay for a boarding school, but we can get her out of this environment. We clearly have things we want/expect from her, and she clearly has things she wants back--maybe we can negotiate a return back to normalcy and knowing what's actually going on in her life.
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Nov 18, 2016 20:13
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I'm not saying I'm the best person to come to for advice but... I mean, what's her alternative here? From her perspective, and it's easy to see things from her perspective, your behaviour is irrational and controlling. She has desires that are going unfulfilled, you aren't offering any real alternatives, she's trying to establish some limited sense of control over her life and to be her own person - and she's doing it while continuing to be a good student, without hurting anyone, and made an active effort to address the situation when her studies did suffer - and she's getting punished anyway to the extent that you literally have nothing left to take away except for her entire life. Simply acting out of spite at that point would be a powerful motivator, but since she's a teenager transgressing boundaries has an appeal all of it's own. You can't punish someone into not wanting things, and as far as she's concerned literally the only downside her "choices" have had are due solely to you - why wouldn't she fight you over them, in that situation? And in every scenario you've spelled out, that last bit will continue to be true - nothing that happens will be a consequence of HER actions, it will all be directly due to YOUR decisions. She doesn't sound like much of a coward, so threatening those things is only likely to make her resist even more. (And let's be honest, nothing she's done so far even seems particularly horrible aside from stealing money, and considering her hobby is horseback riding I'm assuming you guys are well off so even that's probably hard for her to see as a big deal) Basically, you say quote:She's convinced that her choices have no downside and that we are just old, out-of-touch parents that have no place getting in the way of her (to her) ordinary teenage fun. and to a certain extent... she's completely right. Most of what you're describing really, genuinely is normal teenage fun. (aside from the stealing). What actual choices have you given her with what actual downsides? This isn't to say you're wrong to want her to stay away from this stuff or shape up. Far from it. But so far you have seemingly limited yourself solely to abritrary consequences imposed from on-high, most of which seem based more around confirming that you have control over her life rather than trying to guide her towards choosing better behaviours. Even the long term contraceptive thing you cast as something you simply decided for her, rather than a choice she made on her own after you provided her with information, and same with the art class. How much personal responsibility does she actually even have in her own life? Are you offering the opportunity to make choices of her own where failing and loving things up is okay in addition to actually being her own fault and not yours? Any at all? Does she work her own job? Does she have her own money to manage or mismanage? Does she have household contribution expectations with clear benefits and consequences for failure that are relevant to the contribution? Is she expected to pay for her phone herself? Does she have anyone that relies on her for their own success that she might actually let down? Maybe I'm completely wrong, but ironically enough it seems like part of the solution here is offering her more freedom (and the responsibility that comes with it) so she actually feels responsible for the consequences of her actions. Obviously you want to try to offer freedom that lets her make more positive decisions than negative ones, but you also need to give her that freedom with the full expectation she's going to gently caress it up and misuse it now and again. I'd personally focus on the stealing first. If you don't give her an allowance, offer her one (expect her to misuse it for a whole, of course) - but also give her the opportunity to gently caress it up. Having a rolling "withdrawal" rate with a month delay, so she can see how much she has earned so far... but if she steals money or something (make sure the set of rules is small and clear and known in advance, don't be too ambitious, stick to one or two things, I'd say stealing only at first), she loses all of that. So you get a situation where she has a clear benefit for complying, where she has personal responsibility for the outcome, where the outcome is actually a choice she is knowingly making and directly connected to what she's doing. Also, make sure to remind her daily how much has been added and how much is currently in her "account" - it's important to make them feeling the money is something they already have and are going to lose rather than something they will eventually get if they behave. Next, give her the opportunity to choose to take on more responsibility herself - you've played the phone takeaway game. Tell her if she uses her allowance to purchase her own month-to-month phone and pay for her own plan, taking the phone away will be off the table and you'll up her allowance a little bit. Yes, you'll be giving up a leverage of control, in a way - but now if she loses her phone (because she hosed up and didn't get her money that month and didn't save up in advance), it's her fault, not yours. And it sounds like it's not actually proving all that useful to you as a disciplinary strategy right now anyway, so why not give it up to make some other method stronger.
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Nov 18, 2016 20:55
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GlyphGryph posted:I'm not saying I'm the best person to come to for advice but... I mean, what's her alternative here? She was going off with her friends and smoking weed/dabs 4 times a week. We are now finding out that she's basically done none of her required homework since the 9 week report card a couple of weeks ago. Her alternative is--accept that she's not going to have privacy as she is accustomed to. Accept that smoking marijuana concentrates is something that she will get to experience in fullness as an adult. The only alternative to not smoking marijuana is smoking marijuana, and the amount of weed she's allowed to breathe is none. quote:You can't punish someone into not wanting things, and as far as she's concerned literally the only downside her "choices" have had are due solely to you - why wouldn't she fight you over them, in that situation? And in every scenario you've spelled out, that last bit will continue to be true - nothing that happens will be a consequence of HER actions, it will all be directly due to YOUR decisions. She doesn't sound like much of a coward, so threatening those things is only likely to make her resist even more. (And let's be honest, nothing she's done so far even seems particularly horrible aside from stealing money, and considering her hobby is horseback riding I'm assuming you guys are well off so even that's probably hard for her to see as a big deal) I don't really care if she wants marijuana or not--well, that's not entirely true. If she wanted it badly enough to need drug rehabilitation, I'd make sure that she got that. I'm not following what you mean. She had choices of responsible phone and internet usage, time hanging out with her friends, and privacy at home. She has chosen and still chooses when not prevented to expose herself to people online, inhale substances that interfere with her developing brain, and and steal to finance her drug habit when these choices are available to her. Statistics do not bear out that regular drug use is normal for fourteen year olds. It's not *that* abnormal, but regular drug use by teenagers of the type my daughter was doing is well under ten percent. By that metric (6-7 %), I grew up in a time period when teen pregnancy was "normal". The "actual" downsides of marijuana usage for teenagers are pretty goddamn stark by my view. quote:
The natural consequences are teen pregnancy, STDs, and drug/alcohol addiction. Of course the consequences are arbitrary--because it's our job as parents to step in before the natural consequences overwhelm her! The natural consequences to a 2-year-old playing in the street are getting run over by a car. A good parent puts down some arbitrary consequences instead--"we are going inside right now, playtime is over". The method of contraception was decided by her after long conversations and discussions between her and her mother about what was available and what the side effects were. You are correct, though, that none of the available options was "no contraception, we trust you to handle yourself"--this is another area where the natural consequences could quickly overwhelm both her and our ability to deal with it. The art class was something we discussed because her last portfolio did not get her into the art high school that she wanted to attend. quote:
She doesn't work outside the house, but I didn't either until I went to college. Her job, that she gets paid for, is bringing home good grades. We don't pay her for chores--chores are what you do because you are a part of the family. We did pay her for babysitting, back when we could leave her alone. She had her own money, until we discovered the drug use--she still has the money, but no access to it except through us. We are not giving her cash until we are fairly certain she won't just go spend it on getting high, and I feel that anything less would be irresponsible. She has assigned responsibilities that are age-appropriate and light, but she's refusing to do those while she's mad at us. Right now it's easier to just do them ourselves. quote:
She's had plenty of heartbreak with her teen romances, and had the chance to feel how much more sex complicates that. But I'm not really to budge on her become a regular drug user. That kind of use has been shown to have serious developmental effects when done in adolescence. I don't think it's unreasonable not to trust a 14-year-old's judgement when it comes to marijuana (and THC concentrates). quote:
Here's what I see--the things I've put into here are the things we know, usually because she got caught. Despite us already knowing all of this, there's something that she's afraid to tell us, and afraid we will find out. We are terrified.
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Nov 19, 2016 01:04
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I have a toddler and not a teenager, but I also have siblings that are 10-20 years younger than I am so I'm not entirely in a void. It sounds like all these negative behaviors have been normalized for her. Is it possible for her to spend time (a summer? a month?) where she can get exposure to an environment and kids where this is NOT the norm? Maybe if she sees some alternatives, she can make better choices? Foreign exchange seems promising, or else a new school in a different area? Or maybe a few months with grandparents? Not as punishment, but in there guise of expanding her horizons?
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Nov 19, 2016 01:38
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There is nowhere on this planet where a person with some ambition to find some dick and some drugs can't find plenty. I would be concerned that this would be one of those 'set up to fail' things. Most international student programs are reasonably academically rigorous, and very humorless about fuckin' and drankin' and smokin'. Like send you home and charge you back any scholarships humorless. Probably don't want to choose Saudi or Singapore, just in case. Now, it is very possible that your teen will take the international exchange council's rules more seriously than she takes yours, but I would be concerned. Particularly since I suspect just not mentioning what you did with half your junior year is somewhere between suspicious and academic dishonesty when it comes to applying for colleges. Might be a reasonable carrot though. "Get your drugs and academics sorted out now, and we can talk (exotic locale without parents riding your rear end) for your junior year. Or don't, and see what community college in hometown USA looks like!" Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 02:39
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Udelar posted:A big problem is that her friends' parents are simply not trustworthy--we've made arrangements for her to go over there, asked whether an adult will be there the entire time, and then been told later that they all left the teenagers unsupervised to go to the store. For two of them, their "dealer" is in fact an adult relative living in the house with them. Any supervision has to be US. Whoa nelly, yeah it's one thing having a network of lovely friends that will influence her in the worst way possible, but hanging around with a dealer cements her activities as a normal thing.
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Nov 19, 2016 14:23
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So the other day, my five-year-old walks into the room carrying a disassembled toy dinosaur cage, stops to think a moment, and says "Can you put this cage together?" In English. We're Norwegian. Nobody has made any effort whatsoever to teach this kid any English. He even got the two different "th"-sounds right and a lot of Norwegians never learn how to do that. Also he'll do math like: "Twelve plus twelve is... well, twelve is ten plus two, and two plus two is four and ten plus ten is twenty, so... twenty-four." Again, he's five. He begins school next year and I'm pretty drat sure we're going to have to step on the school's toes to make them give him appropriate challenges.
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Nov 21, 2016 12:49
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That's youtube for you, same thing happening here. I also do math like that!
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Nov 21, 2016 12:59
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Yes, youtube is definitely to blame here. And various educational/semi-educational apps which the little dude has at his fingertips. These are good times for naturally inquisitive kids.
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Nov 21, 2016 13:02
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Do you really need to challenge a kid though? Clearly your kid is very smart. That intelligence isn't going to evaporate just because they're not being taught to factor polynomials at age 6.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:47
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Very smart kids who don't get appropriate challenges tend to become bored, restless, underachieving, etc. It's a known problem.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:13
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Do you ever plan on taking your kid on long trips? What about making them sit through long meals with adults?
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Nov 21, 2016 16:21
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nikki ashton posted:Do you ever plan on taking your kid on long trips? What about making them sit through long meals with adults? There is a difference between "I am bored for an entire day" and "I am bored for an entire school year"; one of them results in the kid learning how best to irritate their parents, and the other one results in the kid learning that school has no purpose, learning is pointless, and being smart is a negative trait, not a positive one. Everyone is bored sometimes - when we see an adult in an unfulfilling, frustrating, sometimes-humiliating job, we tell them to find a new job or, if that isn't possible, to cultivate a hobby, though, we don't say "lol you're frustrated at work every day? you must never have to wait in line at the post office  "
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Nov 21, 2016 16:26
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Ok, just checking because this sure sounded like an opportunity for narcissists to level up on yet another status signal. Gotta keep that self esteem up I know.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:37
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Advice on helping kids learn to spit toothpaste out and not swallow it? Very specific problem I know. She's 2 and we're brushing with real toothpaste (teeny tiny bits) and she knows how to spit and that she's supposed to spit toothpaste... but she always ends up just sucking the toothpaste off, brushing, then spitting (having already swallowed whatever was on there). Or is there really anything else that can be done other than "it's just something she'll learn eventually?"
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Nov 21, 2016 16:51
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nikki ashton posted:Ok, just checking because this sure sounded like an opportunity for narcissists to level up on yet another status signal. Gotta keep that self esteem up I know. It isn't a matter of self-esteem, really; the ideal situation for an elementary-aged kid is to think they're just about average, which fantasy cannot be maintained if every assignment is trivially easy to them.
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Nov 21, 2016 17:09
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nikki ashton posted:Ok, just checking because this sure sounded like an opportunity for narcissists to level up on yet another status signal. Gotta keep that self esteem up I know. I don't actually know what this is supposed to mean, but it sounds pretty dumb. What status signal? What "self esteem"? Genuine challenge is an incredibly important element of education, since (especially in the early years) the things schools are actually teaching are mostly learning strategies and behaviours, and those lessons are very heavily undermined if there's no reason to apply them. The point isn't to build up self esteem, it's to minimize the development of overconfidence, laziness, the mindset that they can succeed without hard work, and a variety of other poor habits. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 17:29
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zonohedron posted:It isn't a matter of self-esteem, really; the ideal situation for an elementary-aged kid is to think they're just about average, which fantasy cannot be maintained if every assignment is trivially easy to them. Both my husband and I had this problem, so we will probably have to deal with it with our baby eventually. I'm dreading it, I have no idea how to do this without putting them into either a stupid expensive private school, moving into a super competitive school district and put him under ridiculous amounts of stress with higher suicide rates, or just loving homeschooling him. Argh. This is like at least 5 years out before I really have to think about it, but still. GlyphGryph posted:I don't actually know what this is supposed to mean, but it sounds pretty dumb. What status signal? What "self esteem"? They're talking about self-esteem of the parents. Also, I just want to say GlyphGryph, I really enjoy your posts in this thread. Your parenting philosophy is really in line with mine and have also given me a lot of insight. Rurutia fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 17:33
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We had Jasper's 4th birthday party yesterday and I received the best compliment from friends of ours. They have a kid the same age as ours and they are in the same daycare class as well so we interact with them a lot. They told us they noticed that Jasper is really good about sharing and cooperating with other kids.  That is one of my main goals. Not to raise an rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:33
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Alterian posted:That is one of my main goals. Not to raise an rear end in a top hat. So, so this. Re: smart-kid-chat. I was a VERY bright child. It ended up being a detriment to me, not a benefit, because I breezed through school until university, when I finally encountered things I couldn't instantly do - and I had no idea how to approach them. I had never learned how to work at a problem, and thought that if I didn't understand something right away, it was obviously hopeless, and I gave up at once. I wasted years learning problem-solving-skills I should've learned as a child, and persevering at things I'm not naturally good at is a big problem for me to this day. My sister, who started out as a perfectly average kid, learned how to work at problems and how to handle challenges, and after working super-hard and focused, she's now got an advanced degree in computer engineering at an age where I was just about starting to figure out what I could be doing with my life, she's got an amazing job high up in her field, and is for all (well, most) intents and purposes way brighter than adult me. Being a bright kid is completely pointless unless you learn how to use that intelligence and how to combine it with actual work.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:52
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Rurutia posted:They're talking about self-esteem of the parents. Oooooh, I guess that makes more sense at least. Don't think it's right, but more sensible! quote:Also, I just want to say GlyphGryph, I really enjoy your posts in this thread. Your parenting philosophy is really in line with mine and have also given me a lot of insight. Thanks, that actually means a lot to me. I'm not actually sure most of my advice is actually worthwhile, and spend a lot of time plagued by doubt myself about whether I'm loving everything up constantly, but I at least try to be offer something of value, and it's good to know someone appreciates it. Alterian posted:That is one of my main goals. Not to raise an rear end in a top hat. It's one of my goals too. The fact that my not-yet-2-year-old enjoys sharing (not with other kids yet, he mostly refuses to acknowledge they exist, but with adults) and says please and thank you and is always trying to be helpful is honestly one of the best parts of being a parent so far. I hope he continues being a good kid until he's 4 and beyond so I can continue to take credit for it even though it might not actually be my fault.  Speaking of which, when did everyone's kids actually start, you know, directly interacting with other kids in a not-superficial way? The most mine has had is one time I can remember when he thought another kid was chasing him and got excited but then it turned out the other kid wasn't.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:26
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Sockmuppet posted:So, so this. As a college instructor and someone that was in the "gifted" program as a child I have a lot of experience with this from both ends. Problem solving and failing at tasks and understanding what to do after you fail at something is two skills I wish my students came into college understanding.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:40
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