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I guess it depends on what you mean by not using violence. If you're talking about letting people wear themselves out against a riot shield line instead of shooting journalists with baton rounds, yeah that'd be much better. If you mean "letting the protestors stop construction and/or some of them damage more equipment" then lolno.Recoome posted:Why are you so quick to defend the brutal and disproportionate police actions? You've got to troll a little more subtly than this. Even the CS = VX routine was more believable.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:15
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Please for the love of god won't somebody think about the feelings of the equipment and its loved ones?!
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Nov 25, 2016 01:16
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Yeah hahaha sorry, opposing police brutality is trolling
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Nov 25, 2016 01:19
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DeusExMachinima posted:I guess it depends on what you mean by not using violence. If you're talking about letting people wear themselves out against a riot shield line instead of shooting journalists with baton rounds, yeah that'd be much better. If you mean "letting the protestors stop construction and/or some of them damage more equipment" then lolno. Why do you prioritize continuing construction over not hurting protestors?
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Nov 25, 2016 01:23
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I'm beginning to get the feeling that forums poster DeusExMachinma is a really big fan of police violence against protesters
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Nov 25, 2016 01:24
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botany posted:Why do you prioritize continuing construction over not hurting protestors? Because I don't think trespassing should be legal. The police should use the minimal amount of force necessary to remove protestors. Eventually, someone, somewhere will get hurt in that process no matter how cool-headed and civil the cops might be. They accepted that possibility when they walked onto someone else's property against the owner's express wishes. Anyone who destroys someone else's property should be taken to court and have their wages garnished/assets confiscated until the (possibly multimillion dollar) machine they damaged is covered.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:28
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What is the problem with letting protestors stop construction. They have a right to protest.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:28
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quote:Morton County’s sheriff ,Kyle Kirchmeier, said in a statement on Monday that the tribe had been “hijacked” by “violent factions” made up of “evil agitators”. Also ACLU posted:In a press conference, Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier told reporters, “We don’t have a water cannon. I don’t know where the term water cannon comes from. This was basically just a fire hose.” THen what is this https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/800646152051982336 I am particularly terrified of the threat posed by that evil dancer near the end of the video who keeps hollering "love will find a way!" coyo7e fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 01:29
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DeusExMachinima posted:Because I don't think trespassing should be legal. The police should use the minimal amount of force necessary to remove protestors. Eventually, someone, somewhere will get hurt in that process no matter how cool-headed and civil the cops might be. They accepted that possibility when they walked onto someone else's property against the owner's express wishes. Anyone who destroys someone else's property should be taken to court and have their wages garnished/assets confiscated until the (possibly multimillion dollar) machine they damaged is covered.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:30
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Well I don't usually condone siq av burns but lmao
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Nov 25, 2016 01:30
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coyo7e posted:What's your opinion on Blair Mountain? Considering the Baldwin-Felts PMC's actions in the Matewan Massacre, the fuzz started that one. e: yessssssss finally no more heavy metal av ty
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Nov 25, 2016 01:34
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DeusExMachinima posted:Because I don't think trespassing should be legal. Trespassing isn't legal. That's not up for discussion. The question is why, if faced with a group of protestors, you prefer continued construction to not hurting protestors. It seems to me like you think getting a pipeline done is more important than human health and safety, and I'm wondering why that is.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:34
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I think the better underlying question is why DXE here and the media in general are so comfortable and in fact flatly eager to try and draw a false equivalency of power between heavily armed police 'tactical' forces using federally-supplied military surplus gear and a bunch of unarmed people attempting to walk across a bridge. It certainly makes it easier to justify use of force when you frame in it a manner that suggests the police are in any way under physical threat, doesn't it.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:36
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botany posted:Trespassing isn't legal. That's not up for discussion. The question is why, if faced with a group of protestors, you prefer continued construction to not hurting protestors. It seems to me like you think getting a pipeline done is more important than human health and safety, and I'm wondering why that is. IMHO you should avoid hurting the protestors as much as possible, short of not moving to evict them per the owner's wishes. Or in this case, you stop them from interfering with as little force as is necessary (not that the ND cops have been abiding by that principle). The impression you should be getting is that, assuming a competent police force, how hurt you get trespassing is up to you.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:39
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As a follow-up question for DeusExMachinima, when the Bundy militia occupied the Malheur compound, did you advocate that the authorities go in with force? If so, why? If not, why not?
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Nov 25, 2016 01:39
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DeusExMachinima posted:Considering the Baldwin-Felts PMC's actions in the Matewan Massacre, the fuzz started that one. Considering that the strikers took up weapons, don't you feel they got what they deserved? Also I hadn't seen the video in this link before, but around 1:15-1:25ish, what the gently caress was that if it wasn't a some sort of flashbang? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/24/standing-rock-thanksgiving-jane-fonda-dakota-access-pipeline
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Nov 25, 2016 01:39
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DeusExMachinima posted:IMHO you should avoid hurting the protestors as much as possible, short of not moving to evict them at all per the owner's wishes. Or in this case, you stop them from interfering with as little force as is necessary (not that the ND cops have been abiding by that principle). Why don't you believe people have a right to protest
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Nov 25, 2016 01:40
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coyo7e posted:Literally calling the protestors evil. He's way out of his depth. Also lol the water cannon says Stutsman County, meaning it is actually trucked in from another part of the state. I know Cass County Sheriff (Fargo) is near the protest site as well. The whole state is rotten. I still like my farm, though.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:40
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DeusExMachinima posted:IMHO you should avoid hurting the protestors as much as possible, short of not moving to evict them per the owner's wishes. You're just restating your position. Why is the "short of" clause in there? Why are the owner's wishes more important than the health and safety of the protestors? Why is any of this precluded by deescalating and creating a dialogue, even if that takes a considerable amount of time which would delay the pipeline?
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Nov 25, 2016 01:41
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^^^^ He's also wilfully ignoring the fact that Embridge doesn't own that land.reagan posted:He's way out of his depth.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:43
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botany posted:As a follow-up question for DeusExMachinima, when the Bundy militia occupied the Malheur compound, did you advocate that the authorities go in with force? If so, why? If not, why not? Ideally the police should have gone in peacefully, read them their rights, and arrested them much more quickly than how it went down. If they tried to shoot the officers, well... coyo7e posted:Considering that the employees were no longer welcome when they started striking, weren't they trespassing? I agree that ultimately the police had a duty to evict them for trespassing (how they went about it was totally blood-thirsty though). That situation is a little fuzzier though because the mine's PMC started a gunfight that killed a bunch of people. If DAPL's security officers showed up at the camp tomorrow and started gunning protestors down, that'd certainly be similar. botany posted:You're just restating your position. Why is the "short of" clause in there? Why are the owner's wishes more important than the health and safety of the protestors? Why is any of this precluded by deescalating and creating a dialogue, even if that takes a considerable amount of time which would delay the pipeline? Because the owner's rights remain the same regardless of someone else's illegal actions, and a right delayed is a right denied.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:45
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DeusExMachinima posted:I agree that ultimately the police had a duty to evict them for trespassing (how they went about it was totally blood-thirsty though). That situation is a little fuzzier though because the mine's PMC started a gunfight that killed a bunch of people. If DAPL's security officers showed up at the camp tomorrow and started gunning protestors down, that'd certainly be similar. How much cognitive dissonance can you handle?
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Nov 25, 2016 01:46
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DeusExMachinima posted:Ideally the police should have gone in peacefully, read them their rights, and arrested them much more quickly than how it went down. If they tried to shoot the officers, well... quote:Because the owner's rights remain the same regardless of someone else's illegal actions, and a right delayed is a right denied.
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Nov 25, 2016 01:49
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botany posted:The protestors have a right to protest, and human beings in general have a right to health and safety. Why do you think property rights are more important? I think you'll find the right to crack some hippie skulls is the most important right
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Nov 25, 2016 01:51
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coyo7e posted:^^^^ He's also wilfully ignoring the fact that Embridge doesn't own that land. I was living in Bismarck and Minot up until April of this year but I haven't had a chance to keep up. Which states? Montana/South Dakota/Minnesota? Who else?
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Nov 25, 2016 02:01
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Recoome posted:I think you'll find the right to crack some hippie skulls is the most important right its okay if you crack them gently
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Nov 25, 2016 02:06
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BNNEwgdjbsm/reagan posted:I was living in Bismarck and Minot up until April of this year but I haven't had a chance to keep up. Which states? Montana/South Dakota/Minnesota? Who else? quote:Law enforcement from at least five states (North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wyoming, Nebraska) were present today through EMAC, the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.
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Nov 25, 2016 02:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5zcXccNMY 2016.mov
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Nov 25, 2016 02:57
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botany posted:Yet the way they handled the situation led to a peaceful outcome (Tarpman excluded) and the situation still got resolved. The end result was that everyone got arrested and/or shot depending on their actions, so if that's what you mean by "resolved" I'm down with that. quote:The protestors have a right to protest, and human beings in general have a right to health and safety. Why do you think property rights are more important? There is no clash of rights here because you do not have the right to say whatever you want on private property. If you're under my roof and decide to heil Hitler you'll be shown the door and your rights will be 100% untouched.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:05
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Show me a documented source with video or pictorial evidence that isn't "police say." I'll wait. I linked a video of protesters lobbing an incendiary at the police line this afternoon. There is tons of documentation of protester violence and I don't understand the kind of willfull ignorance required to just ignore it. RBC posted:Why don't you believe people have a right to protest People have a right to protest within the law but no right to break the law in order to protest, and certainly no right to expect the authorities to do nothing while they wreck a construction site. Like....you guys cannot possibly be serious.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:09
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Ah yes silly protesters, please get your license from the state, stand in the designated protest square, and do not break the law. Now, have a good day while we completely ignore you and your demands.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:22
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wateroverfire posted:I linked a video of protesters lobbing an incendiary at the police line this afternoon. There is tons of documentation of protester violence and I don't understand the kind of willfull ignorance required to just ignore it. Shut the gently caress up until you can find something that resembles believable, citable sources the "News Updates Channel"'s popular videos  I wasn't going to mention how the first recommend subscriber channel when I clicked on "News Updates" was literally Alex Jones' official channel - but seriously that means something. wateroverfire posted:Hmm. Also note the title of his second link, in case you wonder if he's dredging up sources which may be biased or not. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 03:23
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DuesExMachina do you know anything about treaty rights and who actually owns this land or are you just going to flutter around the fact that the land ownership is basically the issue here and pretend natives have no rights
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Nov 25, 2016 03:34
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RBC posted:DuesExMachina do you know anything about treaty rights and who actually owns this land or are you just going to flutter around the fact that the land ownership is basically the issue here and pretend natives have no rights
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Nov 25, 2016 03:37
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RBC posted:DuesExMachina do you know anything about treaty rights and who actually owns this land or are you just going to flutter around the fact that the land ownership is basically the issue here and pretend natives have no rights The pipeline isn't on treaty land. I'm unclear if the camp is or not. Any sacred sites on pipeline land has already been hosed up because the pipeline is like 98% done and the reservation never worked with the ACE to identify sites. The only issue of note is whether or not any environmental hazard to the water has been minimized and the protestors are not the final arbiters of that. KaptainKrunk posted:Ah yes silly protesters, please get your license from the state, stand in the designated protest square, and do not break the law. Now, have a good day while we completely ignore you and your demands. By all means you do what you gotta do. Just be aware of what it is you're potentially getting yourself into beforehand. If you burn someone's (possibly multimillion dollar) equipment and you get caught, you should have to make restitution. However long that takes.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:42
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DeusExMachinima posted:The pipeline isn't on treaty land. I'm unclear if the camp is or not. Any sacred sites on pipeline land has already been hosed up because the pipeline is like 98% done and the reservation never worked with the ACE to identify sites. The only issue of note is whether or not any environmental hazard to the water has been minimized and the protestors are not the final arbiters of that.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:47
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DeusExMachinima posted:The pipeline isn't on treaty land. it is, that's not up for debate
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Nov 25, 2016 03:55
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RBC posted:it is, that's not up for debate I think this was why I thought Obama was so silent on the issue, because it was on a private individual's owned land, and not treaty-tribe land. My God Obama.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:12
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Nonsense posted:I think this was why I thought Obama was so silent on the issue, because it was on a private individual's owned land, and not treaty-tribe land. My God Obama. It's okay. Pretending the Treaty of Fort Laramie didn't happen is traditional at this point.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:21
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Looks like a group felt like getting a burger https://www.facebook.com/kevin.happychappy/videos/1808777866061384/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
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Nov 25, 2016 04:35
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