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regulargonzalez posted:Right, but that's a problem when dealing with a question of superhuman stats vs. regular people. Those bots' reflexes, situational awareness, strength, all of those are turned up to 20 (earlier it was mentioned that being a star athlete would be like a 15). So, how to represent that? It's more that they pretty much only show the security guys sort of bumbling around one at a time before getting owned. Like, they do some tactical looking formation thing when they come in the door, then immediately split up and walk into tiny cramped quarters alone like slasher movie victims. And when they actually have a shot they start yelling "put down your weapon" instead of shooting even though their boss is supposed to be a paranoid triggee-happy robot hater
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Dec 5, 2016 06:32
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el oso posted:Confused about guns fired by hosts. We've seen hosts shoot at guests and have the bullets be either ineffectual or about as dangerous as paintgun pellets, but apparently choosing to want to kill guests changes how their bullets behave physically. What's the deal there? Jagermonster posted:Don't just blame Abrams. The Nolan bros have patented convincing people that stylish, convoluted crap like Inception is "smart." It's all just smoke and mirrors and flash over substance and charismatic actors monologizing into the middle distance about dreams. Zmej fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 06:31
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regulargonzalez posted:Agree. Everyone else he could plan on them performing their role but Dolores, he had to take a chance. And tell her a tale that was compelling enough to get her, of her own choice, to shoot him. He was a good enough storyteller that he could. In a way he did program her to shoot him, just with a monologue instead of with computer code. The former takes much more skill than the latter, but he is a master craftsman.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:33
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Jagermonster posted:This whole show pretty much followed Delores's quest for consciousness. She did get to beat up Ed Harris for a bit. That said, figuring out who's conscious right now is interesting. Bernard and Maeve are self-aware, but Bernard is self-aware enough that he seems to just be observing and figuring things out for himself. Maeve is still following some kind of code, but she was either forced to stay the last second or if it was her own decision. Delores almost made it, but now she's become all Wyatt. Which might be the next step to sentience, but it could be bad in the long run. Lots of hosts reacted in different ways to the massacre and while they aren't sentient, or even fully self-aware they do seem to have their own opinions on whether this is right. So I guess the big questions for the future (for me at least) is: how will the hosts holding guests hostage go, what will the hosts do when given a little more free reign, and will we get new host/guest/samurai characters in the wake of all this? Edit: Also, the big thing for me in order for Westworld season 2 to work is to cut back on the timeline stuff. We've got our answers, it was fun, I'm satisfied, let's focus on the present now. Nerdietalk fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 06:33
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Jagermonster posted:Don't just blame Abrams. The Nolan bros have patented convincing people that stylish, convoluted crap like Inception is "smart." It's all just smoke and mirrors and flash over substance and charismatic actors monologizing into the middle distance about dreams. Agreed
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Dec 5, 2016 06:33
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I don't trust Ford. Maybe he really does see robots as the future. Maybe he was trying to get Dolores conscious. I halfway believe him. You are right to question Ford. The slaughtering of the guests is not enlightenment. Oppressing one's oppressors is not the final escape from a cycle of suffering. If he really did die on that stage instead of using a robo-double, Ford did it to aggrandize himself and his nihilistic storytelling, and not for the greater good of a robot future.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:34
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Looking forward to season Westworld: Song of Fire and Ice after Westworld: Shogun
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Dec 5, 2016 06:34
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regulargonzalez posted:Right, but that's a problem when dealing with a question of superhuman stats vs. regular people. Those bots' reflexes, situational awareness, strength, all of those are turned up to 20 (earlier it was mentioned that being a star athlete would be like a 15). So, how to represent that? Just show them moving around efficiently as a team of 2 and headshotting everything. Have them shrug off a few hits too since she turned down their ability to feel pain. Quick Draw McGraw posted:It's more that they pretty much only show the security guys sort of bumbling around one at a time before getting owned. Like, they do some tactical looking formation thing when they come in the door, then immediately split up and walk into tiny cramped quarters alone like slasher movie victims. And when they actually have a shot they start yelling "put down your weapon" instead of shooting even though their boss is supposed to be a paranoid triggee-happy robot hater 
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Dec 5, 2016 06:35
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Zmej posted:. If a host is around, they will grab you, as we saw in a previous episode. If there's no host around, you get stabbed, but you signed a waiver that says Delos can't be sued.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:35
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Caufman posted:You are right to question Ford. The slaughtering of the guests is not enlightenment. Oppressing one's oppressors is not the final escape from a cycle of suffering. If he really did die on that stage instead of using a robo-double, Ford did it to aggrandize himself and his nihilistic storytelling, and not for the greater good of a robot future. I think he did it to join the next level of sentients that he beleives in. But, I guess, maybe it was the Ford host on stage instead of real Ford. I want to beleive that Ford took the final leap though, and joined the revolution.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:35
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Lycus posted:If a host is around, they will grab you, as we saw in a previous episode. If there's no host around, you die, but you signed a waiver that says Delos can't be sued.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:38
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Lycus posted:If a host is around, they will grab you, as we saw in a previous episode. If there's no host around, you get stabbed, but you signed a waiver that says Delos can't be sued. Right, and William almost killed logan by just making him roam around with no sunscreen, clothes, or water for 3+ days in a huge plain lol There are ways to die/kill others that can't be accounted for and can't be prevented by park safety protocols.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:38
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Quick Draw McGraw posted:It's more that they pretty much only show the security guys sort of bumbling around one at a time before getting owned. Like, they do some tactical looking formation thing when they come in the door, then immediately split up and walk into tiny cramped quarters alone like slasher movie victims. And when they actually have a shot they start yelling "put down your weapon" instead of shooting even though their boss is supposed to be a paranoid triggee-happy robot hater This part has my viewing group convinced they are hosts. I agree.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:38
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Holy poo poo. Samurai hosts.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:38
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Jagermonster posted:Don't just blame Abrams. The Nolan bros have patented convincing people that stylish, convoluted crap like Inception is "smart." It's all just smoke and mirrors and flash over substance and charismatic actors monologizing into the middle distance about dreams. Zmej posted:Oh yea... I forgot they kinda do that. At least Nolan doesn't make me disappointed and angry like Abrams. More sad and disappointed. Pray what is this "substance."
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Dec 5, 2016 06:40
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Caufman posted:You are right to question Ford. The slaughtering of the guests is not enlightenment. Oppressing one's oppressors is not the final escape from a cycle of suffering. If he really did die on that stage instead of using a robo-double, Ford did it to aggrandize himself and his nihilistic storytelling, and not for the greater good of a robot future. I don't think Ford has an endgame in mind, he just wanted to give the robots a fighting chance and peace out because he genuinely hates humanity. Probably because Arnold was right, the park was a big mistake and his misandry is one outcome of that mistake.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:42
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regulargonzalez posted:Right, but that's a problem when dealing with a question of superhuman stats vs. regular people. Those bots' reflexes, situational awareness, strength, all of those are turned up to 20 (earlier it was mentioned that being a star athlete would be like a 15). So, how to represent that?
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Dec 5, 2016 06:42
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So I guess there was a fair amount after Clementine shot Ed Harris? My DVR cut off.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:44
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Could barely get a breath in during that finale  I have no idea where this is going to go. Ford's crafted murder suicide is going to have huge repercussions on the park if it can even be a park anymore. The staff is outnumbered by the murder machine hosts. I'm hugely disappointed that we aren't going to see Maeve's sassy adventures in the Realworld but at least we have Samuraiworld and more to look forward to.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:45
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Arglebargle III posted:I don't think Ford has an endgame in mind, he just wanted to give the robots a fighting chance and peace out because he genuinely hates humanity. Probably because Arnold was right, the park was a big mistake and his misandry is one outcome of that mistake. I assume you mean misanthropy
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Dec 5, 2016 06:44
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Arglebargle III posted:Pray what is this "substance." P.S. 
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Dec 5, 2016 06:45
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Caufman posted:If he really did die on that cross instead of using a meat-double, God did it to aggrandize himself and his nihilistic storytelling, and not for the greater good of a human future.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:45
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Aphrodite posted:So I guess there was a fair amount after Clementine shot Ed Harris? My DVR cut off. There was a post-credits scene of Armistice cutting off her arm to get out of the door.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:46
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Mad Wack posted:why in the everliving gently caress is there no https://www.discoversamuraiworld.com Because that's a stupid name for dummies. It's obviously called Eastworld. I'm pretty sure the next time we see Armisice, she's gonna have "fixed" that arm, either by getting a new one grafted or by Merle Dixon-big herself up an armored tanto arm or something like that. The camera lingered a bit on the samurai and armor behind her. This show didn't make some people happy? Sometimes that's a thing that happens with media: it can never live up to some people's imagination. Look at Lost, Battlestar Galactica, the Matrix Trilogy, Mass Effect 3, Contact... it doesn't make these things bad experiences if you feel strongly about what happened. In fact, if a piece of media makes you feel any particular thing strongly it has achieved it's purpose. Jagermonster posted:Don't just blame Abrams. The Nolan bros have patented convincing people that stylish, convoluted crap like Inception is "smart." It's all just smoke and mirrors and flash over substance and charismatic actors monologizing into the middle distance about dreams. What should this be replaced with? I'm sure your imagination can come up with something suitable...
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Dec 5, 2016 06:46
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This show is like tripping so anyone and everyone can come back and maybe shoot you,hold an interesting conversation, or play music.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:47
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Sardonik posted:The security guys could have at least loving fired most of the time. Especially in that bit after the credits, "DROP YOUR WEAPON" or whatever? That doesn't make sense on any level, what would a security person care for the "life" of a host? All the security sequences reeked of bullshit plot armor. I realized it shortly into the whole sequence, why not give your security guys who are there mostly to deal with rogue hosts the magical bullets that only hurt hosts and just sting people? Then no worries about walking into a room where there are hosts and employees, just open fire and give band aids to the employees. Plus, even if a host gets ahold of a gun they're useless to them. Still a drat good episode though, I like the way they're handling it.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:47
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Shneak posted:Could barely get a breath in during that finale They've left themselves lots of outs/open possibilities for various things, including Ford's death itself. I doubt they could pull off samuraiworld for anything more than little bits since most people don't actually know poo poo about feudal Japan
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Dec 5, 2016 06:47
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well the fly did make a comeback like I had hoped, but it wasn't in a huge way. I still think there's something special about the flies with regards to the whole park/world/outside thing since they show the hosts were taught to ignore them, but that may be it in itself still don't know if ford died (makes sense with the whole god speech), or a host of ford dies. good cliffhanger. the whole handshake thing seemed awkward, was that a tell? this show seems like it's going to go all Matrix on us, where the first movie (season) was good in itself and the next couple go crazy sci-fi, but if you forget they existed, the original is still good on its own. I do have to give it to the writers for bringing it together though. I didn't foresee Ford as being pro-hosts/Arnold's actual friend and that really changes the dynamic. Maeve's awful storyline at least came to make sense, that the cliche stuff going on was all planned, somewhat redeems the whole arc. William didn't kill his friend like I thought though, which makes the 30 years of marriage thing and him being the owner needing some explaining still. Though I suppose his wife could've just resented how he didn't become (remain?) friends with her brother and that was the source of the problems, as she took his side for those years. ugh it was cool to hate on TV and now Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, and Westworld got me hooked like a junkie
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Dec 5, 2016 06:46
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Its funny that in the movie we see it from the humans perspective and the human wants to survive and the event just looks like some terrible malfunction. But, in the show, we get perspective on what caused that haze - it was orchestrated. And as a viewer, you are rooting for the Robot's to make it
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Dec 5, 2016 06:47
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Sardonik posted:The security guys could have at least loving fired most of the time. Especially in that bit after the credits, "DROP YOUR WEAPON" or whatever? That doesn't make sense on any level, what would a security person care for the "life" of a host? All the security sequences reeked of bullshit plot armor. My hunch is that they are all hosts. Snake-tattoo-lady screamed in pain as she cut off her arm, we know from Maeve and the scar faced guy getting burned alive that they don't feel (or at least don't have to vocalize) pain. The only times we see hosts acting pained is when they're programmed to react that way for the benefit of guests (when the one guy gets his hand stabbed into the table, or when Dolores screams when she gets her stomach cut open). The only reason for her to scream is if it's just in service of a story; Ford's story. Her bit is just a little side story off of Ford's main narrative. For who? For Ford himself. If the story isn't complete until itself it's not done.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:47
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"The reviews for the new narrative are in: It's a real shot in the arm!"
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Dec 5, 2016 06:48
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Aphrodite posted:So I guess there was a fair amount after Clementine shot Ed Harris? My DVR cut off. Woah. Yes. You missed 30 minutes or so.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:48
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I don't think it's called "Samurai World". https://www.discovershogunworld.com
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Dec 5, 2016 06:49
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Robert to viewers," You may think I've gone insane, but I promise, I will kill again!"
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Dec 5, 2016 06:49
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KoRMaK posted:I think he did it to join the next level of sentients that he beleives in. It's possible he's become a true believer and really did die on that stage. I would still disagree with his beliefs. For one, I don't think he's given the robots enough of a chance for their revolution to be viable. He's made many of them into excellent killers and given them a wide world of guns and swords, but he hasn't given them a navy and an air force to defend their territory from obliteration. But let's even suppose they are successful in turning the park bloodbath to the start of a successful robot supremacy. They'll have inherited our original sins, and it will be a matter of time before robots create the next level of existence which will come to believe its own supremacy and make its own rebellion. My friends, the very deepest level of the maze is love. Michelangelo was right, there is a god at the center of the mind, and it is a god of love, and its name will be mercy. After the first episode I wondered what Dolores would find beautiful when it came time for reckoning. The killing, though it is a done thing now, is not the ultimate liberation or the most beautiful thing. The gala attendees may have to get what's coming to them, but the human children visiting the park don't deserve to be hunted.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:50
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regulargonzalez posted:Woah. Yes. You missed 30 minutes or so. No, this was at the 90 minute mark. After Ford had just been shot.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:50
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Oof, right in the Christianity.
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Dec 5, 2016 06:51
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The cultural appropriations squad will be in meltdown. I want Samuraiworld
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Dec 5, 2016 06:51
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seaborgium posted:I realized it shortly into the whole sequence, why not give your security guys who are there mostly to deal with rogue hosts the magical bullets that only hurt hosts and just sting people? Then no worries about walking into a room where there are hosts and employees, just open fire and give band aids to the employees. Plus, even if a host gets ahold of a gun they're useless to them. If you're going down that road, you should give your security guys armor that can stop their own bullets, since friendly fire is a big concern. Especially since the glass security doors are already bulletproof so it's clearly not that difficult
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Dec 5, 2016 06:51
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Yeah, I'll just never get the kind of people who watch an episode like that and the biggest complaints they have are "Why did the security team die so easily?" or "Why do they have real guns now?". These kind of complaints feel like such superficial complaints compared to discussions of the freewill of characters, or even just whether or not people's actions made sense. Like, if you want to do that poo poo, why not ask "Why didn't people give Ford poo poo about creating a Host that looked like and had history similar to Arnold and then put him in the same role?" The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 06:52
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