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Feels like devastation/prosperity is going to make it a lot easier to cripple big countries in a single war, since the repercussions of getting fully occupied will last much longer than they do at present. Seems backward to me, compared to all the work they've been doing with revanchism etc. to keep large powers relevant for at least a few lost wars. Also feels very strange that devastation & (horde) razing are two completely unrelated mechanics.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:08
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I play Russia and I'm sick of the Ottomans sending their whole army around the east side of the Black Sea to get me, leaving the Balkans and Constantinople undefended because they know they can get away with it. Maybe if there were consequences to overusing that strategy it wouldn't happen so often, and Constantinople being a smoking perma-ruin sounds like a fine start.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:23
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I really like the idea of sailors but like many others I've found them completely irrelevant. In my Transylvania game I tried to build a Barque and got confused when I couldn't despite having the money for it. That's the only time I can remember when sailors mattered. Anything boosting sailors is worth even less than the Toughness feat from Dungeons and Dragons. Heck the feat that lets you use turn/rebuke undead on hippos has more use.  Off topic but maybe I played too much Shadowrun Hong Kong because I'm a bit creeped out whenever something is called prosperity in a game. Teeth. Thousands of teeth.  But devastation feels like it's going to screw over countries who gets into a lot of wars. Kinda like the opposite of revanchism? Get trashed once and the second time will be even nastier.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:24
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PittTheElder posted:I doubt you can WC from there, not enough progress in Europe. What are your ideas? If they're not Admin/Influence/Quantity/Diplo it'll be especially tough. Ideas are Influence/Diplo/Defensive/Religious  I guess I'll go for WC anyway because...well, why not? Thanks for the other achievement ideas, too. Those all look gettable.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:29
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PleasingFungus posted:Feels like devastation/prosperity is going to make it a lot easier to cripple big countries in a single war, since the repercussions of getting fully occupied will last much longer than they do at present. Seems backward to me, compared to all the work they've been doing with revanchism etc. to keep large powers relevant for at least a few lost wars. It's only 5% per war though isn't it? Since you can only loot once unless you decide to do some funky stuff and drag the war out for so long it'll practically cripple you too. It'll only be a really big thing in provinces that are hit by a whole bunch of wars. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I also wouldnt mind if they changed how converting worked. I always thought it was silly that the Muslim Ottomans in like 400 years of overlordship over the Balkans, only a very small percentage of the native population converted to Islam. In EU4 it is 100% converted before 1500. I agree with your general point, but Muslim Ottomans have +3 tolerance of heathens in their traditions- they flat out don't convert heathen land, look at the religious mapmode in your saves. As far as I know the Ottomans are specially coded to put the Dhimmi estate on all their heathen provinces too. Whenever an AI has tolerance of heathens, they don't convert. Most of the Muslim countries in India too for instance, and I think there are some more I'm forgetting. Still yeah, there are plenty of other parts of the world where faiths didn't change but it happens in game in no time at all. If it's done well I'm all for a change to conversion.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:33
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I'm still kind of fumbling around with this, so, could someone explain to me why "gently caress france" is a thing? I picked up they get strong, but, is there a reason for that?
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Dec 8, 2016 00:45
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spectralent posted:I'm still kind of fumbling around with this, so, could someone explain to me why "gently caress france" is a thing? I picked up they get strong, but, is there a reason for that? France gets strong yes. Which is pretty historical, IRL France practically always had to be faced down with a coalition of other powers to beat them to a standstill from the 17th century onwards, and even before that they were very formidable, with the Revolution and the introduction of universal conscription combined with revolutionary nationalism it got pretty goddamned insane. In the game France is pretty hard to fight because they have lots of high development provinces giving them a very strong economy and lots of manpower and force limit, and from their national ideas they get +20% land morale, it can be pretty tough to beat French armies, especially with lucky nations when their rulers and generals are better, even when you have superior numbers and a defensive position.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:55
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spectralent posted:I'm still kind of fumbling around with this, so, could someone explain to me why "gently caress france" is a thing? I picked up they get strong, but, is there a reason for that? It's entirely because France Strong. They're a bitch to fight, so it's kinda cool to see them get wrecked by an AI. e: Also this: quote:A lot of it is collective memories of previous versions where France was stronger PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 01:02
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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A lot of it is collective memories of previous versions where France was stronger but also if they start to get aggressive and Spain doesn't have any decent allies they will often eat some / most / all of Iberia, compared to most other European powers which don't have the advantage of only having two land borders, 1 of which is filled entirely with weak HRE states. They also have +20% morale in their NIs which is the single best military boosting NI in the game (tied with, IIRC, Sweden and Prussia - this may be wrong as I almost never play in Europe) which counts for a lot. So basically a combination of geopolitics and being favoured by game mechanics. They can fail to become strong if they don't manage to get their cores from England which usually means some kind of huge England-Aragon-Castile--Austria alliance formed against them. The real OP country in EU is Poland but for some reason the AI utterly sucks at playing them.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:02
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QuarkJets posted:They should get rid of sailors, and instead: I think you'd have to either drastically increase the number of coastal provinces that say Tlemcen, the Netherlands, or Portugal have; tweak your numbers (which probably makes the mechanic useless); or give them a national idea to counteract that effect which doesn't sound like fun to me. e: actually, you covered that for Portugal and NL. I just misread it the first time though it'd be weird to conquer, say Liege, and have your naval morale start dropping. feller fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 01:17
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RabidWeasel posted:The real OP country in EU is Poland but for some reason the AI utterly sucks at playing them. With zero meddling at all in eastern europe by my part, "commonwealth" controls from about Berlin to Siberia in the current game I'm playing, they're the #2 great power by a long shot. I've seen it happen before too. Once they snowball and break into russia they really get going.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:34
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For some reason the AI likes not doing the union with Lithuania and then getting curb-stomped by the teutons and/or bohemia.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:39
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I hosed about with Castille for a while and didn't get a lot of stuff so I'm trying the ottomans on the basis they're apparently good at breaking heads and I like breaking heads. I take it my basic gameplan is to gobble up all the one-two province places pretty much immediately then break through the blue Qara guys to the right so I can start swinging left, right, up and down in succession whenever people get too mad at me for eating all the countries they care about? EDIT: I take it "100 military power now for +10% manpower forever" is a good trade? Do I need to convert all my non-sunni provinces? Can I make more than one khalifa if I do it now? Aaaa this was meant to be simpler spectralent fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 01:46
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spectralent posted:I hosed about with Castille for a while and didn't get a lot of stuff so I'm trying the ottomans on the basis they're apparently good at breaking heads and I like breaking heads. I take it my basic gameplan is to gobble up all the one-two province places pretty much immediately then break through the blue Qara guys to the right so I can start swinging left, right, up and down in succession whenever people get too mad at me for eating all the countries they care about? Beat up the Balkans, Egypt and whoever has Persia and whenever you need a break backfill on minors.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:48
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That's the basic idea, yes.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:49
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PittTheElder posted:I doubt you can WC from there, not enough progress in Europe. What are your ideas? If they're not Admin/Influence/Quantity/Diplo it'll be especially tough. Do you need Quantity? I went Admin/Influence/Humanist/Diplo (I'll get Quality and Offensive next, probably). My manpower's doing fine. On that note, this is my WC attempt right now. It took a couple of restarts but I think it's going ok this time:  The only problem is there's an Asian/African coalition going on, with most Euro countries near 50 AE (I make drat sure not to poke them too hard). So far I've been able to handle them since I've got twice as much manpower. Good news is I released Aragon and Styria, and also got to the British isles, so I should be able to return some cores and spread the AE around. This Timmy war and the Russia war I'm about to start should open the path to China and Scandinavia, too.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:38
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I ate up Bytazynium!  I managed to get Serbia to peace out and pay me moolah for the privilege then wailed on them until I got to 100%. Didn't quite realise you had to send them the peace offer, but there we are. All the little islands next to me have joined a trade league; I'm a little nervous about poking that. Also how do naval invasions work in the past?
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Dec 8, 2016 02:42
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Elman posted:Do you need Quantity? I went Admin/Influence/Humanist/Diplo (I'll get Quality and Offensive next, probably). My manpower's doing fine. Not that I've ever done a WC, but I imagine you'd want quantity for the force limit bonus rather than the manpower. A higher force limit would let you take on more enemies at once and expand faster. I think the AIs are also less inclined to coalition against you if you're fielding a huge army.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:45
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The Great Horde wants mercs from me but doesn't find any price acceptable. Oddly, they find a price slightly higher than the base offer more acceptable than they do a lower one. 
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Dec 8, 2016 03:10
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Koramei posted:It's only 5% per war though isn't it? Since you can only loot once unless you decide to do some funky stuff and drag the war out for so long it'll practically cripple you too. It'll only be a really big thing in provinces that are hit by a whole bunch of wars. Fair point! I guess it depends how they define 'looted'; is that 5% every time the loot bar goes from full to empty, or every month of looting, or...?
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Dec 8, 2016 03:14
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Senor Dog posted:I think you'd have to either drastically increase the number of coastal provinces that say Tlemcen, the Netherlands, or Portugal have; tweak your numbers (which probably makes the mechanic useless); or give them a national idea to counteract that effect which doesn't sound like fun to me. I think instead of number of coastal provinces it should actually be based on coastal development modified by the presence of dock buildings. Ten 1/1/1 coastal provinces should not result in much naval morale at all (aka empty coastline is worthless), whereas a single well-developed province with a shipyard should be enough to negate any morale penalty (maybe you should even get a morale bonus for something like that). If you set the penalty based on minimum total coastal development instead of number of coastal provinces then you should avoid weird situations where taking coastlines reduces morale (because your total coastal development would still be above the threshold)
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Dec 8, 2016 03:22
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Elman posted:Do you need Quantity? You probably don't need it in the same sense that you need Admin, Influence, and Diplo, but since you do need to fighting 3-4 wars simultaneously on multiple fronts, it sure helps. Also, I should probably state that I am by no means a WC expert, having only actually done it once. So take any and all advice with large grains of salt.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:22
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uPen posted:For some reason the AI likes not doing the union with Lithuania and then getting curb-stomped by the teutons and/or bohemia. This does happen sometimes but they also often annex the TO, form Commonwealth, and then do nothing for mysterious reasons even though doing so makes them huge and their NIs are incredibly good for warfare. Possibly the AI gets scared of bordering both OE and Russia (which both have +FL ideas, though the quality of their troops is less than the Commonwealth's) and doesn't want to start any wars?
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Dec 8, 2016 05:59
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Yeah I don't quite get it either. A casual Russia game is my go to when a new patch drops, and I often spend the first century or so unable to attack Pol-Lit because they're more powerful than I, but they never attack me either.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:27
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The thing with France is that their good mil ideas are front loaded. With their first idea group they'll have +20% manpower and morale and you probably have nothing. Also in older versions both Austria and Castille had weaker mil ideas so they tended to walk all over them. If you fill out all NIs then Brandenburg, Poland and probably Sweden come out ahead. If they still have the Janissaries so do the Ottomans.
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Dec 8, 2016 13:59
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah I don't quite get it either. A casual Russia game is my go to when a new patch drops, and I often spend the first century or so unable to attack Pol-Lit because they're more powerful than I, but they never attack me either. Pol-Lit doesn't really want to expand into Russia, Poland gets one mission to take Smolensk but apart from that there's not really anything pushing it to fight a unified Russian power. Also if you add too many provinces to Lithuania as Poland you can't form Commonwealth, so AI Poland tends to be really wary of buffing Lithuania up -- if you give it most of Livonia you'll basically be right on the brink of being unable to enact the decision. (This also has great synergy with the fact that as far as I know there's no way to actually see how many provinces a nation currently has.) They also have a strong tendency to be put at a tech/institution disadvantage by their cavalcade of lovely rulers. By the time the Commonwealth forms, if it does, they're usually surrounded by powerful opponents - Russia, Ottos, Sweden, HRE - of the sort that a human player is always hoping to take down but the AI is often content to chill forever with.
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Dec 8, 2016 14:12
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skasion posted:Pol-Lit doesn't really want to expand into Russia, Poland gets one mission to take Smolensk but apart from that there's not really anything pushing it to fight a unified Russian power. Also if you add too many provinces to Lithuania as Poland you can't form Commonwealth, so AI Poland tends to be really wary of buffing Lithuania up -- if you give it most of Livonia you'll basically be right on the brink of being unable to enact the decision. (This also has great synergy with the fact that as far as I know there's no way to actually see how many provinces a nation currently has.) They also have a strong tendency to be put at a tech/institution disadvantage by their cavalcade of lovely rulers. By the time the Commonwealth forms, if it does, they're usually surrounded by powerful opponents - Russia, Ottos, Sweden, HRE - of the sort that a human player is always hoping to take down but the AI is often content to chill forever with. In the ledger, hovering over the force limit number shows you the number of provinces I think. It's somewhere in the ledger anyway
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Dec 8, 2016 14:31
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Linnaeus posted:In the ledger, hovering over the force limit number shows you the number of provinces I think. It's somewhere in the ledger anyway There's a Number of Provinces page in the ledger, but it helpfully renders the information into an utterly unreadable graph of number over time. I'll check the ledger tooltips though.
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Dec 8, 2016 14:37
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 Yeah it was in the armies page, my favorite page.
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Dec 8, 2016 15:00
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Linnaeus posted:
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Dec 8, 2016 15:22
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Is there a listing of what aggressive expansion I've got and who cares somewhere that's easy to compare? I'm just comparing how mad people seem to be on their diplomacy pages at the moment and I feel like there has to be a simpler way. Also is it the case that I only want to take the province I declared war for and slowly nibble away at people? I've just been annexing entire states and I've noticed people don't like me very much. spectralent fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 16:20
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spectralent posted:Is there a listing of what aggressive expansion I've got and who cares somewhere that's easy to compare? I'm just comparing how mad people seem to be on their diplomacy pages at the moment and I feel like there has to be a simpler way. Coalition Map mode. And it depends. In Germany, nibble. Everywhere else? Gobble, right up until you're facing a coalition you can't beat.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:34
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Yeah for example if you're the Ottomans going anywhere but towards a Major European Power you can go hog wild because they're going to be 2 techs behind probably AND not have the manpower AND not have kicking rad Military Ideas if you took them.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:43
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it's 1484 in central america and i just completed all the aztec reforms. my ae is super high from constantly breaking truces and my manpower and ducats are depleted. but i think i can still conquer everyone before europe arrives. in retrospect maybe i should have gotten them all down to opm for the final conquest
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Dec 8, 2016 17:01
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spectralent posted:Is there a listing of what aggressive expansion I've got and who cares somewhere that's easy to compare? I'm just comparing how mad people seem to be on their diplomacy pages at the moment and I feel like there has to be a simpler way. You have to use the coalition map mode, which is unfortunate because it's a loving terrible mapmode, especially in comparison to how important it is. Countries start coalitioning you at about -50 AE, so the most useful thing to know about AE is "how close to -50 am I with countries around me. Unfortunately, the scale between 0 and -50 on the map is a bunch of barely-perceptible shades of grayish pink that give you only the vaguest idea unless you mouse over them. It's easy to tell which countries are actually in a coalition against you once that forms, but the crucial question of "how likely is this dude to join a coalition against me" is hard to figure out The way it should work is like development or one of the other actually useful mapmodes, going through shades of green --> yellow --> orange --> red with way more granularity than it has now. A ledger screen to sort by AE would be super useful, too.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:07
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oddium posted:from constantly breaking truces for future reference, not a good idea to do this. You're setting yourself back several years worth of admin for very little. Just try to plan your conquests on a rotation so truces don't matter.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:27
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yeah this is more of a practice run so i just went hog wild
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Dec 8, 2016 17:31
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algebra testes posted:Yeah for example if you're the Ottomans going anywhere but towards a Major European Power you can go hog wild because they're going to be 2 techs behind probably AND not have the manpower AND not have kicking rad Military Ideas if you took them. Am I really that far ahead of non-euros? I've been nervy about going east/south because the countries there look massive and I've been at war for like ten years and have low manpower. ATM I can't declare war on anyone anyway because my king died and now I'm a regency. Any way of preventing that?
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Dec 8, 2016 18:21
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aaahhgjahaa i got into a hellwar with half of europe with a goal of disbanding the HRE but I didn't understand the mechanics enough and half the countries I need to control aren't in the war and so I can't do it noooo I guess i'm just going to break alliances and take all their money instead
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Dec 8, 2016 18:27
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spectralent posted:Am I really that far ahead of non-euros? I've been nervy about going east/south because the countries there look massive and I've been at war for like ten years and have low manpower. Probably. Check their military tech; there's a reason the game shows you when you click on any of their provinces. Buy the latest DLC, have a queen.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:08
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