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AceOfFlames posted:My dad (we live in Europe, BTW) is getting a PhD in Climate Change and I don't understand how he is not suicidal. The only time I asked directly about the subject was mentioning Trump pulling out of the Paris accords and giving deniers top positions and he came up with this convoluted explanation about how it wouldn't be that bad since a lot of those regulations are up to individual states and most follow California's lead, topping off with "you're just as misinformed as a Trump supporter!". He has also been to a ton of conferences abroad and my mom (who goes with him and doesn't speak Englush) says "no one there looked depressed" Makes me wonder if my dad is being scammed. That's some pretty strong rhetoric to use on your own kid. Did you forget his birthday or something? edit: VVVVVV IMO become an oil company executive just to show him. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:36
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He does that sort of thing constantly. His favorite running jokes when I was a kid was asking my mom when I was in the room "when are we going to tell Ace he's adopted?" and whenever I asked what he wanted for his birthday or Christmas he would ALWAYS reply "a son with good sense"
AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:39
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To be fair, though, I imagine much of my perspective is due to being in the United States, where I cannot count on even some of the smartest people I know to know the basics of how climate change works, and why it is not just "another problem among many." The impression I get from Europe is that climate change is seen as one of history's great challenges, and people are coming together in a productive manner to try to address it. Here we're running around making sure to use euphemisms like "climate variability" and "upward trends in extreme events" whenever a fat white guy in a suit walks by so we don't lose our funding.
Fasdar fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:40
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For me it was the coupling of some pretty dire science with our societal organization. Just think of how much money the world's current proven fossil fuel reserves represent in untapped dollars. Literally trillions of USD. To resist that kind of financial power is going to require a radical realignment in most every aspect in our society, and even then the bill is already way past due. Even if we manage to reorient cultural expectations and organizational forms we're still left needing a miracle tech or for somehow geoengineering not to be the bitterest pill. We'll need like 15% year over year ghg emission reductions, which just isn't a reasonable goal. I see society moving in the opposite direction though, not outward towards a shared sense of place and purpose, but inwards towards the self. A constellation of hyperrealities brokered through social media, capitalism, and nationalism. More and more people pulled towards their in-groups with their own agreed upon facts and a priori assumptions. A decade ago when I was studying this the consensus seemed to be this is bad, but the worst will be prevented because we aren't going to be that stupid as a society. I disagreed. The worst part is I'm comparatively not even an alarmist. More a middle of the road guy in terms of the effects of climate change. Gareth Gobulcoque fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 17:31
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AceOfFlames posted:My dad (we live in Europe, BTW) is getting a PhD in Climate Change and I don't understand how he is not suicidal. The only time I asked directly about the subject was mentioning Trump pulling out of the Paris accords and giving deniers top positions and he came up with this convoluted explanation about how it wouldn't be that bad since a lot of those regulations are up to individual states and most follow California's lead, topping off with "you're just as misinformed as a Trump supporter!". He has also been to a ton of conferences abroad and my mom (who goes with him and doesn't speak Englush) says "no one there looked depressed" Makes me wonder if my dad is being scammed. lol. Your dad is being scammed. Regulatory capture is real and if you think companies have too easy of a time with the federal government, then by golly will they have fun with state legislatures.
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Dec 9, 2016 17:45
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Nocturtle posted:edit: VVVVVV IMO become an oil company executive just to show him. Joking aside, I don't think this would phase him in the least. My brother has tried to break into oil and gas for years and my dad never said anything about it. In fact, other than making sure we recycle, I have never seen him be very passionate about the environment, I think the PhD just grew from his work having him do a lot of environmental audits. I heavily suspect his nonchalant attitude towards climate change is because he believes that "only the third world will get screwed"
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Dec 9, 2016 17:57
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AceOfFlames posted:Joking aside, I don't think this would phase him in the least. My brother has tried to break into oil and gas for years and my dad never said anything about it. In fact, other than making sure we recycle, I have never seen him be very passionate about the environment, I think the PhD just grew from his work having him do a lot of environmental audits. Sounds like your dad is one of many trying to paint a veneer of environmental friendliness on the usual capitalist gently caress the environment gig
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Dec 9, 2016 18:03
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He's a civil servant. He audits other government departments. I just have no clue. I guess he finds the topic fascinating yet manages to remain detached. The fact that he's already in his 60s and thus will be dead when things go bad helps.
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Dec 9, 2016 18:11
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AceOfFlames posted:My dad (we live in Europe, BTW) is getting a PhD in Climate Change and I don't understand how he is not suicidal. The only time I asked directly about the subject was mentioning Trump pulling out of the Paris accords and giving deniers top positions and he came up with this convoluted explanation about how it wouldn't be that bad since a lot of those regulations are up to individual states and most follow California's lead, topping off with "you're just as misinformed as a Trump supporter!". He has also been to a ton of conferences abroad and my mom (who goes with him and doesn't speak Englush) says "no one there looked depressed" Makes me wonder if my dad is being scammed. My mom finished hers a few years ago. Midway through her dissertation she stopped asking me about my girlfriends and when I was going to get married/have children (we are from a 3rd world country, having grandchildren was a big deal for her). It was really obvious she was depressed or had changed her outlook on the future. Seems like trend and your dad is strange http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-sad-climatologists-0815/ ughhhh fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 18:12
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That was a good read, thanks.
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Dec 9, 2016 18:48
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.5f5b066ed4e8 The purge begins. quote:The Trump transition team has issued a list of 74 questions for the Energy Department, asking officials there to identify which department employees and contractors have worked on forging an international climate pact as well as domestic efforts to cut the nation’s carbon output.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:10
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Fangz posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.5f5b066ed4e8 That escalated quickly. As a sneak peek for what American climate scientists are in for, look to Canada which only recently emerged from 9 years of Conservative federal government: Nature: Nine years of censorship posted:Early one Thursday morning last November, Kristi Miller-Saunders was surprised to receive a visit from her manager. Miller-Saunders, a molecular geneticist at the Canadian fisheries agency, had her reasons to worry about attention from above. On numerous occasions over the previous four years, government officials had forbidden her from talking to the press or the public about her work on the genetics of salmon — part of a broad policy that muzzled government scientists in Canada for many years. At one point, a brawny ‘minder’ had actually accompanied her to a public hearing to make sure that she didn’t break the rules. Although maybe Trump will just fire them all.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:30
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God that's depressing. I can't imagine what some scientists are feeling in the U.S. right now.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:58
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Here comes the brain drain.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:36
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As a federally funded climate change researcher/graduate student, I can assure that I feel extremely pissed off that I bothered learning all of this convoluted, complex, depressing, and ultimately crucial knowledge just so a bunch of pasty white fatasses with inheritances can conduct witch hunts in broad daylight and eviscerate the very core of our country's ability to engage with scientific reality. I feel a death of any empathy or compassion for Trumps supporters, even those within my own family who voted mainly out of well-earned spite for liberalism. I also feel a bit giddy, as I always sort of suspected that humanity would eat itself long before the worst of climate change kicked in. And while I am perhaps disappointed that there are so many human beings who lack any sort of intellectual ambition or basic valuation of the future, I knew that they existed before Trump, and am only surprised by the degree of hatred and brutality with which they aim to see their hollow, factless, and ultimately inhuman agenda realized. At the same time, I am seeing those who value science, logic, and environmental sustainability with a new level of appreciation that I had not had previously, realizing that while I may not enjoy their company, necessarily, or even like their personalities, they are now, whether I like it or not, my comrades in arms in what is likely to be a very dirty political war.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:45
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well poo poo there goes my job market
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Dec 9, 2016 22:48
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Fasdar posted:And while I am perhaps disappointed that there are so many human beings who lack any sort of intellectual ambition or basic valuation of the future, I knew that they existed before Trump, and am only surprised by the degree of hatred and brutality with which they aim to see their hollow, factless, and ultimately inhuman agenda realized. At the same time, I am seeing those who value science, logic, and environmental sustainability with a new level of appreciation that I had not had previously, realizing that while I may not enjoy their company, necessarily, or even like their personalities, they are now, whether I like it or not, my comrades in arms in what is likely to be a very dirty political war. Same, but with a deep paranoia that the compulsive focus on knowledge depth created the lack of organization and political influence which got us to this situation. Is it possible to have leadership that is deeply scientific if the hubris, drive, and time needed to advance politically is fundamentally incompatible with deep understanding of scientific issues?
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Dec 9, 2016 22:52
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Salt Fish posted:Same, but with a deep paranoia that the compulsive focus on knowledge depth created the lack of organization and political influence which got us to this situation. Is it possible to have leadership that is deeply scientific if the hubris, drive, and time needed to advance politically is fundamentally incompatible with deep understanding of scientific issues? As always, the answer (besides Full Meritocracy Now) is to randomly pick leaders, because good leaders are actually terrible leaders.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:58
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I remember when in 2012 the Conservatives in Canada shut down PEARL, the Polar Environment Atmospheric Research Lab, a vital monitoring station in the high arctic. Although (some) funding was restored by the Liberal Party when they took office in 2014, the lab is still grappling with the effects of its funding loss. Yes, Trump might be in office for only four years (one would hope), but if his climate/science policies are anything like the Conservatives in Canada, it will take a lot longer than that for the scientific community to recover.The Globe and Mail posted:The place is called PEARL – the Polar Environment Atmospheric Research Laboratory – and its choice position overlooking Eureka on Ellesmere Island offers a window on the mechanics of climate change in the part of the planet where its effects are most immediate and acute.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:00
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Even if you restore full funding to the program, it will take years for it to recover. Pulling funding on any field of research causes years of damage, especially for research that requires data over years. Those layer off researchers found other jobs. Experiment were ruined. I am in Houston, TX. Anything I can do to help out? I feel like I have to do something. Donate to a green advocacy group, get involved in local politics, or something.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:09
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"Get the hell out of Texas" would be my recommendation
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Dec 9, 2016 23:15
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Move to China.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:18
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Start clean energy companies in states without an active investment in fossil fuels.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:22
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Embrace the mighty atom and watch the US coal industry blow up a bit more slowly than it would anyway (still too late for stopping climate change).
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Dec 9, 2016 23:26
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*Are* there any good charities that fund environmental research?
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Dec 9, 2016 23:43
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:
I'm working in environmental justice organizing at the moment while I save money and get my ducks in a row for grad school. There are some fairly big climate-centric, anti-Trump events being planned right now by various groups that will start actively recruiting folks after the new year, both for decentralized local action and for large coordinated events like a protest in DC. I'll share info as I get it. In the meantime, get involved locally. Sierra Club and other progressive environmental groups have chapters everywhere. If you can't find one, look for a political group that seems on the level and is organizing around the issues you care about. Getting organized is the only way we lessen or outright prevent the impending madness and maybe motivate people to prioritize climate action.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:50
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Telephones posted:So it seems like stopping climate change or really even controlling the effects is no longer possible unless we were to almost entirely stop emissions within the next few years - right? How does a rapid +0.5C on top of the already way the gently caress higher temperatures now sound? Incidentally, Arctic ice extent increase for December 8th was +72,505 sq km, more than 20k lower increase than the 7th... things are looking uhh... (refresher - the duplicate lines are previous years' December trends offset to start at the beginning of December 2016): Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 01:56
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Ya'll are really underselling this and that WaPo article kinda leaves out the good bits. I'll give it a shot. Oh my loving god. Donald Trump is going to purge the Department of Energy of anyone who has ever worked on a climate change program. quote:President-elect Trump’s transition team has circulated an unusual 74-point questionnaire that requests the names of all employees and contractors who have attended domestic or international climate change policy conferences, as well as emails associated with the conferences.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:57
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Oil Nazis. It has an interesting ring. e: also - this is neat: quote:For each tonne of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) that any person on our planet emits, three square metres of Arctic summer sea ice disappear. Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 02:00
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Evil_Greven posted:Oil Nazis. I still think we'll make it to next decade, but that's still catastrophic. The radiative forcing from albedo reversal alone is loving staggering.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:42
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Anyone looking for something they can do to help really needs to change their general outlook on the situation. There is no prevention at this point, honestly the only real singular tipping point was 16 years ago when Gore conceded the election that he won. If you care about other people, then get as many other people together as you can and learn how to survive in a world without global civilization. You are not going to save the world or make any real difference at all to anyone other than yourself and the people you personally know. The first step is moving out of Florida or any other populated coastal region you might currently live in or near, to somewhere that isn't immediately doomed. The best case scenario is that you will have saved a lot of time and money when the WAIS breaks off, and the worst case scenario is that you will have a better chance at surviving the migration crisis (coming soon to a city near you!) or the facist government that will be elected and necessary to prevent such a crisis from getting you killed. As people have said earlier, this is assuming that you don't have the money to move to New Zealand and build a secure bunker or compound of some sort. It's also assuming that the nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan in the next decade doesn't lead to anything involving other nations that could lead to a global nuclear winter of such proportions that survival isn't really worth it anymore.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:43
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Alaska seems like it'd be at least somewhat not terrible. Far north, potentially arable land, and projected to receive more precipitation as warming continues. The main challenge sounds like it'd be the billion other people trying to get there also. Or is it all just completely hopeless?
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Dec 10, 2016 03:25
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Tiax Rules All posted:Alaska seems like it'd be at least somewhat not terrible. Far north, potentially arable land, and projected to receive more precipitation as warming continues. The main challenge sounds like it'd be the billion other people trying to get there also. Or is it all just completely hopeless? If you've ever been to Alaska you know that it's filled with truly horrible people. Better to drown.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:46
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If you think isolating yourself in an area that might be hospitable in a post warming world than you greatly underestimate the impact of societal collapse. The second lawlessness rules you will be subject to violence. You're cute garden and pigs will be a target. You will die. It's just selfish at this point to abandon society. You're efforts will go lot farther in figuring out how to deal with the current crisis, and how society can continue in a post warming society. Don't be a coward, go down with the ship, and be prepared for suicide.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:57
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Speaking of, it looks like the Northeast will be drowning in cold. https://twitter.com/capitalweather/status/807287858298032128 Also here where I live on the outskirts of it. It's drat cold. loving climate change shoving the Arctic down here. Collectively we deserve it, but it fuels American skepticism something fierce. Thanks Nature.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:58
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Minge Binge posted:If you think isolating yourself in an area that might be hospitable in a post warming world than you greatly underestimate the impact of societal collapse. The second lawlessness rules you will be subject to violence. You're cute garden and pigs will be a target. You will die. It's just selfish at this point to abandon society. You're efforts will go lot farther in figuring out how to deal with the current crisis, and how society can continue in a post warming society. Don't be a coward, go down with the ship, and be prepared for suicide. Please rename thread Climate Change: Nice Meltdown.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:59
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Minge Binge posted:If you think isolating yourself in an area that might be hospitable in a post warming world than you greatly underestimate the impact of societal collapse. The second lawlessness rules you will be subject to violence. You're cute garden and pigs will be a target. You will die. It's just selfish at this point to abandon society. You're efforts will go lot farther in figuring out how to deal with the current crisis, and how society can continue in a post warming society. Don't be a coward, go down with the ship, and be prepared for suicide. Yeah, how about no. For the past 10 years or so I have been that annoying little poo poo trying to educate people on climate change. I have faith in the great ocean that separates my country from the others. When it comes to it, Ill be looking out for me and my own.
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Dec 10, 2016 04:06
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Evil_Greven posted:Speaking of, it looks like the Northeast will be drowning in cold. So is this going to be more common? Like could it shift permanently? Or just be incredibly more frequent?
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Dec 10, 2016 04:13
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BattleMoose posted:Yeah, how about no. For the past 10 years or so I have been that annoying little poo poo trying to educate people on climate change. I have faith in the great ocean that separates my country from the others. When it comes to it, Ill be looking out for me and my own. Thanks for letting us know, rear end in a top hat. 
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Dec 10, 2016 04:32
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the black husserl posted:Ya'll are really underselling this and that WaPo article kinda leaves out the good bits. I'll give it a shot. Oh my loving god. Donald Trump is going to purge the Department of Energy of anyone who has ever worked on a climate change program. Already purging dissent. He's shaping up to be a fine dictator. Evil_Greven posted:Oil Nazis. And our policy will still be complete denial until the houses of all oil executives are underwater. NASA and NOAA are as good as dead while Trump hires every bit of scum he can scrape up to ensure that we destroy ourselves blindly for every spare penny.
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Dec 10, 2016 05:07
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