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Guy Goodbody posted:But he never gets visually messed up? His costume doesn't get torn, he doesn't get scraped up, his hair doesn't get mussed, right? So what exactly is your angle here? That you have to see visual damage reflected on the combatant in order to feel a sense of danger? A tiny trickle of blood running from the corner of Superman's mouth suddenly means it's on and he's in real trouble? Give me a break.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:17
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Frankly, unless a fight scene looks like an explosion at a ketchup factory, it's dull, limp, lifeless, flaccid, and other words you'd normally use to describe someone's dick.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:19
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Brainiac Five posted:Yeah, I mean, we don't see Superman's guts hanging out at any time during the movie. There's no X-ray shots of brain trauma. I don't think we even get him trying to breath with a busted ribcage. There are standard visual ways to show that the guy in an action movie is in trouble or in a hard fight. You don't have to include them, there are no unbreakable rules of making a movie, of course. But if you can't see the battle physically effecting the protagonist at all, then yeah that can undercut the tension.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:19
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:So what exactly is your angle here? That you have to see visual damage reflected on the combatant in order to feel a sense of danger? A tiny trickle of blood running from the corner of Superman's mouth suddenly means it's on and he's in real trouble? Give me a break. I'm explaining why I agree with Cythereal, I never got the impression that Superman was in any serious physical danger during the fights in Man of Steel. Mainly because the bad guys never actually seemed capable of physically damaging him. Superman spent 30 minutes getting thrown through buildings by Zod, and at the end looked completely fine, the same as when he began
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Jan 5, 2017 00:22
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm explaining why I agree with Cythereal, I never got the impression that Superman was in any serious physical danger during the fights in Man of Steel. Mainly because the bad guys never actually seemed capable of physically damaging him. Superman spent 30 minutes getting thrown through buildings by Zod, and at the end looked completely fine, the same as when he began Yelling, grimacing, lying stunned on the ground, and literally being knocked briefly unconscious midway through the fight isn't enough. Ultimately you gotta see that bloody mouth/nose. Fair enough.  His costume is immaculate, of course. (btw the Zod fight is six minutes long)
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Jan 5, 2017 00:27
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm explaining why I agree with Cythereal, I never got the impression that Superman was in any serious physical danger during the fights in Man of Steel. Mainly because the bad guys never actually seemed capable of physically damaging him. Superman spent 30 minutes getting thrown through buildings by Zod, and at the end looked completely fine, the same as when he began But how did the rest of the city/town that he loved look? Utterly decimated, and that was WITH him fighting against the destruction. Superman wasn't fighting Zod because HE was in danger, he was fighting Zod becuase his PLANET was in danger. Also, in the ship he coughs up blood. Was Zod bloody when his neck was snapped? No. But he still was killed. The not being bloody is just the resilience of Kryptonians. Drifter fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 00:27
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It's interesting that the fight with Zod is not perceived as "when Superman fucks up, the danger is that the ordinary world gets pulverized even if he recovers" but rather "Zod threw him through a bunch of buildings and he looked fine on the other end of it, so what was up with that?"
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Jan 5, 2017 00:32
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Drifter posted:But how did the rest of the city/town that he loved look? Utterly decimated, and that was WITH him fighting against the destruction. Superman wasn't fighting Zod because HE was in danger, he was fighting Zod becuase his PLANET was in danger. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It's interesting that the fight with Zod is not perceived as "when Superman fucks up, the danger is that the ordinary world gets pulverized even if he recovers" but rather "Zod threw him through a bunch of buildings and he looked fine on the other end of it, so what was up with that?" I'm glad you're conceding that the danger wasn't to Superman himself. On your next point, I didn't really feel a connection to the human characters. They didn't get a lot of screen time, aside from Superman's parents and Lois, and I don't remember them being very well developed or interesting. During the giant Zod fight the city is getting leveled, millions of people are dying, and then it cuts to a soundstage with Perry white and a lady trapped under the rubble, and I'm like, at this point who cares?
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Jan 5, 2017 00:39
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Drifter posted:But how did the rest of the city/town that he loved look? Utterly decimated, and that was WITH him fighting against the destruction. Superman wasn't fighting Zod because HE was in danger, he was fighting Zod becuase his PLANET was in danger. In addition to coughing up blood and collapsing in the ship, Superman is coughing like a smoker, wheezing, grunting/yelling in pain, and having his face look real hosed up G-Force waved, in the World Builder fight. The whole thing in Man Of Steel is that none of the Kryptonians get scratched due to the power of the yellow sun. Even after Zod's neck is snapped, there is no external damage. The only time any Kryptonian bleeds or shows any damage is on Krypton.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:41
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I just don't care about people without a reason, you know? They really need to earn it.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:48
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm glad you're conceding that the danger wasn't to Superman himself I'm not at all, I'm saying the scene works on two levels: 1) Danger to Superman 2) Danger to the world You can have both, as evident in pretty much any blockbuster ending involving some world-ending scenario and the hero(es) racing to stop it. The hero is in danger, and the world is in danger, and their fates are linked. Anyway, I can literally produce GIF after GIF of martial arts movies where the two combatants pummel each other and the only thing they get is sweaty and, sometimes, a bloody nose/mouth or blood at the hairline. Same with Superhero stuff. It's Hollywood shorthand for "he's hurt" and it's baffling to me that it's some kind of required signifier for your brain to accept "this guy is in trouble". Now, I don't want you to think I'm attacking you as somehow defective - you like what you like, you feel how you feel, it's 100% subjective and your reaction is genuine - but I would suggest watching the Smallville fight again. It's on Youtube in full and only a few minutes, and it features incredibly brutal, kinetic shots of Superman getting turfed into the pavement, clothes-lined, shot in the forehead so hard his head snaps back, etc. And ask yourself why you need a splash of blood on his face to feel the danger (really, this is the only thing they could do, as Superman's hair rarely gets mussed and he has no way to fix his costume in this version of the character) Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 00:49
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I just don't care about people without a reason, you know? They really need to earn it. You get that Man of Steel was fiction, right? Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm not at all, I'm saying the scene works on two levels: I remember the Smallville fight being a lot better. Starting off with humans interacting with Kryptonians, and keeping it more on the ground made it feel more real, as opposed to just CGI dudes smashing through buildings. But the Zod fight failed for me because 1) I didn't think Superman was ever in danger. I checked, Superman doesn't even get sweaty. He makes occasional grunts of exertion, and that's it. and 2) I didn't care about the world they had built for the movie.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:00
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I finally sat down and watched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice, so why not throw my useless two cents in? I didn't like Man of Steel, but I'm not sure that wasn't just a genre thing. I didn't care at all about all the Jor El and Krypton stuff and left me cold from the start, but I'm sure there's a lot of people who love that alien stuff who might have gotten a kick out of it. And a very easy argument can be made that I watched a movie about an alien so I should have expected alien stuff, and I can't argue that. I could counter saying that Superman is often depicted as a "nature vs nurture" thing where he's the human side fighting back against the alien, and the movie brought that in but spent more time on his alien side than his human. But that may also be that I just didn't care for a lot of his human stuff. I didn't buy Amy Adams as Lois Lane and found her very forced and one dimensional. I also didn't buy into the whole Clark let his dad die saving a dog because his dad wanted him to hide his identity thing. Like, i can't stop rolling my eyes at that long enough to appreciate the point. I didn't care for Cavill either. A lot of this, I felt was that Snyder didn't seem to want to rehash the same origin movie so he moved quickly from point to point and added in some new Krypton stuff. But the rushing just felt empty since Superman, Lois, and the Kents didn't feel like they were doing much between those things. I ended up more engaged with Zod and his lieutenant, or Perry and the random staff members. Also, I'm not really clear on how Superman maintained his secret identity after all that because... what the hell? I liked Dawn of Justice a bit more. I didn't love it and it had flaws, but it kept me engaged. Again, a lot of that may just be that alien thing. Some of it is that Dawn of Justice felt like it had more of a story with Batman's anger and fear. Snyder seems to do the same rushing past the origin story here but it works more for me here because Batman rushes into a story that comes off Man of Steel. But maybe this just comes down to me generally liking Batman more than Superman, but its not like I'm on Batman's side. He's a scared rear end in a top hat. But I get it since I watched the buildings come down on people and I'm seeing the same creepy Superman worship. And it kind of played into Cavill's portrayal of Superman as this aloof/wooden guy, whether that's acting or design. Superman skeeved me out so I get why he skeeved out Batman who had more skin in the game. And I was cool with the way they worked Wonder Woman and the others into the mix and Jesse Eisenberg's Luther was fun to watch. Different and I'm not entirely sure it made sense, but it was fun. Again, I didn't buy into Adams' Lois and her jumping into every major moment was probably my weakest part of the film. Lois feels less like a character and more like a constantly moving plot device. There you go, my useless and probably derivative two cents that will probably piss someone off. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 01:04
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Guy Goodbody posted:You get that Man of Steel was fiction, right? Obviously I know that they're not real, but I recognize that the function of fictional characters is to represent people, and I thus care about them. Caring about characters is a simple choice.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:13
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STAC Goat posted:I finally sat down and watched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice, so why not throw my useless two cents in? Seems pretty decent to me. Thanks for putting in the effort. I will say that the "dad died, so what?" scene was not only about Johnathan saving the dog for the sake of Clark's secret, but also showing him putting himself in danger for the helpless, "lower" life-form. It doesn't quite gel IMO. Guy Goodbody posted:I checked, Superman doesn't even get sweaty. He makes occasional grunts of exertion, and that's it. Well you went back and gave it another shot, can't complain about that.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Obviously I know that they're not real, but I recognize that the function of fictional characters is to represent people, and I thus care about them. Caring about characters is a simple choice. You care about all fictional characters? It doesn't matter how well written or interesting they are, or how much screen time they got, nothing matter because fictional characters represent people and you choose to care about them? Did you cry when Edward left Bella alone in the beginning of The Twilight Saga: New Moon? Or when Woody Harrelson's character died in 2012?
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Jan 5, 2017 01:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:You care about all fictional characters? It doesn't matter how well written or interesting they are, or how much screen time they got, nothing matter because fictional characters represent people and you choose to care about them? Did you cry when Edward left Bella alone in the beginning of The Twilight Saga: New Moon? Or when Woody Harrelson's character died in 2012? I consider compassion to be a virtue, not a vice, so this point of view is a strange one, from my perspective. Comma.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:22
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Seems pretty decent to me. Thanks for putting in the effort. Huh, I guess I hadn't really thought of that but then it just comes off as more patronizing and insidious to me. "We are to Superman as a dog is to us." Maybe I don't like dogs enough to appreciate that. But it does help justify why the dog instead of just a kid or him being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. So I appreciate that. And it does fit into the "Earth or Krypton" choice that the movie ultimately sets up as the true "danger" to Superman. He's never really in any true danger of dying, the whole thing is just basically about him spending his life feeling like an alien, being presented with a bunch of his people who say "gently caress humans, lets get our Krypton on" and Kal/Clark being forced to choose. I just don't think that ever worked in the movie because (a) they spent too much time developing Krypton, Zod, and Jor El and not enough time on Clark/Kal El and his identity dilemma seemed like something they wanted us just to import from past versions. And (b) of course Superman was never going to side with the genocidal fuckers. Its a Superman movie, he's going to do the right thing. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 01:24
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Brainiac Five posted:I consider compassion to be a virtue, not a vice, so this point of view is a strange one, from my perspective. Comma. They aren't real, dude. They're fictional characters, they don't actually exist.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:26
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Guy Goodbody posted:They aren't real, dude. They're fictional characters, they don't actually exist. Virtues must be practiced. If you would masturbate to the pain and suffering of a fictional character, when it costs you nothing at all to be compassionate, what will you when you face the slightest hint of hardship? Will you fold like an accordion?
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Jan 5, 2017 01:29
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Brainiac Five posted:Virtues must be practiced. If you would masturbate to the pain and suffering of a fictional character, when it costs you nothing at all to be compassionate, what will you when you face the slightest hint of hardship? Will you fold like an accordion? I didn't say anything about masturbating. I think you might be projecting.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:33
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Guy Goodbody posted:I didn't say anything about masturbating. I think you might be projecting. "I'm rubber you're glue" is fine for a 2nd-grader to say, but an ostensible adult doing it? What the hell?
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Jan 5, 2017 01:37
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Brainiac Five posted:"I'm rubber you're glue" is fine for a 2nd-grader to say, but an ostensible adult doing it? What the hell? I'm literally 8 years old.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:38
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Its the movie's responsibility to engage you and make you care about the characters. You should go into the movie open to caring about them. You should say "I'm willing to, for 90-120 minutes, throw myself into this world and care about the life and death of these fictional characters." But the movie has to get you there and justify it and plenty simply don't. Ultimately you can't blame the viewers for not sympathizing with Jason's victims if the movie never bothers to give you a reason to see them as anything other than victims. I think Man of Steel's biggest hurdle is that it expects us to just care about Lois and Martha and Smallville without putting in the work. Whether that's because Snyder simply didn't want to redo the same stories and expected us to carryover from them or because he just expected us to care because they're people, I don't know. Ultimately I care more about Perry and the staff of the Planet because we see them scared and fighting for survival. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 01:41
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STAC Goat posted:Its the movie's responsibility to engage you and make you care about the characters. Hard disagree. Fictional characters are not popularity contests. Choose empathy, or don't, but it's absolutely a choice. Otherwise you are using the same standard as someone who says "I'm a Christian, and I just can't care about a sinful character who is an adulterer! Get some values, Hollyweird!" Now I will say that movies ABSOLUTELY can make it easier or harder to like a character, and it might make financial sense to make it easy, but it is not their responsibility to the audience. (btw Man of Steel has a very nice view of dogs, they are associated with virtue)
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Jan 5, 2017 01:51
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Hard disagree. Fictional characters are not popularity contests. Choose empathy, or don't, but it's absolutely a choice. Otherwise you are using the same standard as someone who says "I'm a Christian, and I just can't care about a sinful character who is an adulterer! Get some values, Hollyweird!" So you felt just as sad about the death of Woody Harrelson's character in 2012 as you did about *insert any actual sad movie death here*?
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Jan 5, 2017 01:58
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STAC Goat posted:I didn't buy Amy Adams as Lois Lane and found her very forced and one dimensional. I also didn't buy into the whole Clark let his dad die saving a dog because his dad wanted him to hide his identity thing. Like, i can't stop rolling my eyes at that long enough to appreciate the point. I didn't care for Cavill either. A lot of this, I felt was that Snyder didn't seem to want to rehash the same origin movie so he moved quickly from point to point and added in some new Krypton stuff. But the rushing just felt empty since Superman, Lois, and the Kents didn't feel like they were doing much between those things. I ended up more engaged with Zod and his lieutenant, or Perry and the random staff members. Also, I'm not really clear on how Superman maintained his secret identity after all that because... what the hell? Even as someone that loves Man of Steel I think it would have been a better movie if Jenny and not as nice coworker were just removed from the story completely and we had just Perry and Lois as our two human non-military characters doing stuff. Waste of two really excellent casting choices. The whole spoilered part though I loved. Clark's dad having that conversation earlier about whether it may have been worth letting those kids die or not and him being unsure about how to give Superman the opportunity to reach adulthood as a "regular" human and decide on his own who he wants to be was obvioulsy an important conversation in Superman's life since the scene exists. But I wasn't expecting his dad to literally walk the walk and sacrifice his own life for his kid's future like that. I don't think Clark kept a secret identity as we know it in past comics but something more like in Batman Inc. or the Nolan movies where there's several people capable of figuring out who he is or who already know and/or are told, but they keep quiet for various reasons. In The Dark Night like one of Wayne's accountants deduces it but when he confronts Morgan Freeman about it the conversation is like "this dude's basically richer than God and an unstoppable martial artist and probably insane why would even think of getting his attention or hurting him?" Man of Steel's ending was sort of like that on a bigger scale, people and the military are already scared/confused about what kind of person Superman is. And at the end he drops the drone in front of a general's face and is like "I'm strong as gently caress and from Kansas so you have to trust me." I'm assuming that had the same effect but on a much larger scale, plus I forget but I think at some point in the movie Lois' actual investigation into his identity is destroyed and/or stuff happens so she never has a chance to actually get it to the military or anyone who'd matter. Zod and Faore and folks blatantly come from another planet and tell the earth's population Superman is one of them and walks among them. But then Superman turns himself in so I don't think the average person thinks he's dashing into a phone booth to change or otherwise pretend to be an average guy given all the mayhem that follows. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 02:01
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Neo Rasa posted:Even as someone that loves Man of Steel I think it would have been a better movie if Jenny and not as nice coworker were just removed from the story completely and we had just Perry and Lois as our two human non-military characters doing stuff. Waste of two really excellent casting choices. My two changes would be to cast the young kid version of Clark in the tornado scene, and get rid of the post-rescue Lois kiss with the apocalyptic imagery in the background. Guy Goodbody posted:So you felt just as sad about the death of Woody Harrelson's character in 2012 as you did about *insert any actual sad movie death here*? I did say that movies can make it harder or easier to care. For example, John Wick is a movie about a killer assassin mowing down dozens of degenerate gangster mooks, but the movie takes a moment to humanize Frances, the one who lost a bunch of weight (Wick spares him, btw). Even Austin Powers knew that the deck was stacked. Check out this cut scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_AFraxj-4
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Jan 5, 2017 02:11
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If you don't cry for [character], you don't really care about them.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:14
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STAC Goat posted:I finally sat down and watched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice, so why not throw my useless two cents in? I always forget about the Krypton thing in the beginning because it was just so underwhelming to me. It looked alright, but I just didn't like Russell Crow's whole thing. And the planet itself seemed so steampunky - like, you've got some super high tech poo poo and some super low tech poo poo and it's all just willy nilly.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:15
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Man, I love Krypton. It's like a little John Carter of Mars movie to kick the whole thing off.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:17
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I didn't spoiler this post about the end of MoS because it's definitely been discussed unspoilered in this thread before, but if for some reason spoiler tags are relevant again to that movie, watch out..!! I think the lack of visible damage to either combatant in the final fight of Man of Steel actually was a problem, because it contributed to general confusion with regards to how close either character was to winning or what the end of the fight could be expected to look like. Now, that could itself be a strength if the idea is that these two star monsters might literally fight forever and destroy the entire world because they can't get hurt or tired... but the fight actually does end with one character defeating and executing the other, out of nowhere. It's confusing. We were missing A) some idea of how the fight could be won (if you don't want to have either character become visibly more bruised or bloody as the fight progresses, you could have a prior scene of Zod executing an underling or something? just so we know that if one Kryptonian does incapacitate another for long enough they can actually inflict a lethal wound) or B) a clear picture of what personal breakthrough or change in strategy or burst of resolve finally allowed Superman to take control of the fight such that he was in the position of deciding whether to kill Zod rather than in the position of being brutally bullied and knocked around by Zod while trying and failing repeatedly to regain the initiative.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:17
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ROB LIEFELD'S EXTREME UNIVERSE
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Jan 5, 2017 02:28
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hell yeah!
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Jan 5, 2017 02:31
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Drifter posted:I always forget about the Krypton thing in the beginning because it was just so underwhelming to me. It looked alright, but I just didn't like Russell Crow's whole thing. And the planet itself seemed so steampunky - like, you've got some super high tech poo poo and some super low tech poo poo and it's all just willy nilly. I just remember finding it way too busy. I went back and re-watched the analogous scene from Donner's '77 Superman and I was amazed to find out that, if you excise the literally five minute credit sequence at the start, the scene from Superman and the scene from Man of Steel are almost exactly the same length. Superman's intro feels cold and sterile and solemn, though, whereas Man of Steel's feels frantic and sweaty and neurotic and it looks like a Roger Dean album cover. Personally, I prefer the former.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:31
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Phylo, you did point out that Donner's Zod & Co. were sent to the Phantom Zone via a Queen album cover, which I agree is the superior way to get fired out of the narrative for a while.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:32
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Guy Goodbody posted:So you felt just as sad about the death of Woody Harrelson's character in 2012 as you did about *insert any actual sad movie death here*? Yeah id say it's less about the emotional reaction evoked & more about how/why that emotion is evoked. Like I'm super weak so personally if I watch something where, let's say someone's told something tragic like their dad died & then I see a closeup of them crying I'm probably gonna tear up regardless of the quality of what I'm watching. Doesn't say much about what I'm watching. Lot of movies that have made me cry that I think are garbage & the opposite is just as true.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:55
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STAC Goat posted:Huh, I guess I hadn't really thought of that but then it just comes off as more patronizing and insidious to me. "We are to Superman as a dog is to us." Maybe I don't like dogs enough to appreciate that. But it does help justify why the dog instead of just a kid or him being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. So I appreciate that. The tornado scene is a lot like the Sons Of Martha scene from BvS. There's a kernel of a good idea there, but the way it's executed is terrible, and how did no one speak up about it? Megaman's Jockstrap posted:My two changes would be to cast the young kid version of Clark in the tornado scene, and get rid of the post-rescue Lois kiss with the apocalyptic imagery in the background. Changing it to young Clark instead of Cavill pretending to be younger by wearing different clothes and taking about college would have improved the scene. It still wouldn't quite work though. Pa Kent's whole thing about whether to be in the open or not was much better served in his talk about the bus full of kids, it's a reasonable hypothetical to agonize over. Clark already did the right thing and now we're back talking philosophy. Watching your dad die because he doesn't want the world to know you could save him needs way greater stakes to work. Especially with the way it was presented with basically adult Clark letting his dad die because his dad thought it would be easier for Clark's day to day. As for the kiss, aside from it being way overblown in most people's reaction, it serves an emotional and narrative purpose. It's cinematic short hand for "yay, action dude saved the day". So both we and the couple think it's over, and everything is going to be OK. Then Zod ruins the moment and we're faced with a personal fight that ends with Superman being forced to kill the only other member of his species. So instead of Superman destroying a robot and keeping his hands clean to save the day, we see the cost of the attack personalized. Prior to the Zod fight everyone we followed survived, with the exception of a few military dudes who made the heroic off screen sacrifice.
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Jan 5, 2017 03:20
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Guy Goodbody posted:You care about all fictional characters? It doesn't matter how well written or interesting they are, or how much screen time they got, nothing matter because fictional characters represent people and you choose to care about them? Did you cry when Edward left Bella alone in the beginning of The Twilight Saga: New Moon? Or when Woody Harrelson's character died in 2012? What the gently caress is wrong with you.
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Jan 5, 2017 03:30
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| # ? May 20, 2024 10:00 |
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Hard disagree. Fictional characters are not popularity contests. Choose empathy, or don't, but it's absolutely a choice. Otherwise you are using the same standard as someone who says "I'm a Christian, and I just can't care about a sinful character who is an adulterer! Get some values, Hollyweird!" Well to be clear, I'm not saying you have to like someone to empathize with them. You just have to connect on some basic level. You can be open to it going into a movie but the movie still needs to fulfill its part of the job by making the character feel like a person instead of a one-dimensional plot device or casting call. If the movie pulls that off and makes them feel real than whether I like them or agree with their decisions is another matter. But you have to get past that first hurdle of just making me believe. And I have some responsibility to keeping my mind open to it, but the movie has to do its part. In this case, I think Batman is wrong and afraid and behaving badly. But I empathize with why he's acting this way. I empathize with Zod quite a bit right up until he starts doing stuff like murder and genocide and even then his whole speech about how he was engineered to protect his species and Superman took away his "soul" actually got to me a little. But when Clark's reaction to the bombing is that he can't be with Lois/"be Clark" I was just left a little "huh?" as to how exactly he got there. Or when Superman's forced to choose between his Krptonian or Earth self I don't feel like we were sold on it. Or the entire Clark/Lois romance. Maybe I just don't get Superman but maybe the movie makers just failed to flesh him out for me. Neo Rasa posted:I don't think Clark kept a secret identity as we know it in past comics but something more like in Batman Inc. or the Nolan movies where there's several people capable of figuring out who he is or who already know and/or are told, but they keep quiet for various reasons. Its not an actual criticism because secret identities aren't treated as a big deal in those two movies and generally in Superman its all pretty "wink, wink". Lex clearly figured out Clark's identity and Superman just called Batman "Bruce" without me remembering him actually finding it out in a scene (I assume he just figured it out with the super hearing and vision stuff, and I'm totally fine with them leaving it to that and not having a revelation scene). The movies seem to just kind of throw off the idea with a wink and a nod and I'm mostly ok with that. Drifter posted:I always forget about the Krypton thing in the beginning because it was just so underwhelming to me. It looked alright, but I just didn't like Russell Crow's whole thing. And the planet itself seemed so steampunky - like, you've got some super high tech poo poo and some super low tech poo poo and it's all just willy nilly. Yeah, it just played as this weird other movie to me. Like, 10 minutes in I'm wondering why Jor El is an action star flying on winged beasts. But I imagine there's plenty of people who are into funky alien stuff who got a kick out of it and on some level I think I understand what Snyder was doing by focusing on the Krypton stuff and then using it to fuel Zod and the Jor El stuff later. I just don't think it worked narratively because it feels like they pulled out the middle of some other movie and just tacked it onto the start of a totally tonally different one. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 03:53
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