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Outrail posted:2000 years from now we're going to be genetically and physically incompatible with any other remnants of humanity. Rapid speciation event. Their biological resources will serve well enough to build our indentured caste.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:02
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If we are doing bioenginering, we also want to up the size/efficiency of our lungs. The partial pressure of oxygen on Hooboy even before any terraforming are close enough to human survivable (By sherpa's and those acclimatised to it) that with some tweaking we can probably have people walking around Hooboy without oxygen tanks.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:36
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nothing to seehere posted:If we are doing bioenginering, we also want to up the size/efficiency of our lungs. The partial pressure of oxygen on Hooboy even before any terraforming are close enough to human survivable (By sherpa's and those acclimatised to it) that with some tweaking we can probably have people walking around Hooboy without oxygen tanks. Assuming you can engineer people to be able to withstand breathing air that is insanely cold. Although maybe a good scarf would fix that? Or the giant space mirrors. It's not like it is unlivable either, those temperatures exist on Earth in places that people live in, so clearly there is a way for humans to deal with it. Maybe the answer actually is a good scarf. Hoosheep could soon produce the most sought after wool in the galaxy. vorebane posted:How easy will it be to refuel and maintain the settlement shields? How long would a 'tank' last? The shields on the ship require constant power. It is a non-trivial amount, but pales in comparison to the power consumption of the drives, which use a vast majority of the reactor output when they are at full capacity. If you have a ship-scale reactor you could easily power a small colony, shields included. Your science people (mostly Silvia, but also Tubal and a few other engineers that are awake) are also confident that geothermal power will be a boon, the large temperature gradients present in the natural environment should allow you to pull a great deal of usable heat out of the ground. Enough to power shields, probably. Alternatively you can, with some effort, construct additional reactors like the one on the ship and those will last... a long while. Xarbala posted:Fair enough! Yes, the equipment on the more primitive probes that are currently at all the landing sites (and buried in some lava/at the bottom of a lake/ocean) is... more primitive. Getting better equipment down there would allow you to take better readings. The rover in particular has excellent benefits in detection because it is mobile, allowing you to take readings in many areas.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:03
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I'm guessing Hooboy has some hellacious winds. How efficient are wind energy generators with the tech available to us, and are they a significantly worse choice than reactors and geothermal power?
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Jan 6, 2017 00:17
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For what it's worth it was around - 28C (-18F) yesterday, and aside from wearing really thick scarves and "Ohh loving coold today eh?" life went on pretty normally. And my hand got stuck to the doorknob, but that was my own fault.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:35
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Outrail posted:For what it's worth it was around - 28C (-18F) yesterday, and aside from wearing really thick scarves and "Ohh loving coold today eh?" life went on pretty normally. I've been in -40(F&C convergence!) weather, and the worst thing about it was definitely the sapping nature of breathing frozen air. We didn't stay out for more than 20 minutes at a time while digging the vehicles out and took turns sitting in the truck with the heat blasting so I mean it's totally doable, especially with futuretech arctic survival gear replacing Rothco fatigues worn over fleece pajama pants and faux-fur-lined plaid shirts over hoodies.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:43
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If we're staying on planet we are definitely going to need extreme redundancy in both the power sources and shields, even if it slows down other development.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:52
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This planet is basically Mars halfway through a good terraforming plan, plus bonus geothermal resources. It's a gift and we should be thankful the issues it does have can be solved at our existing technology level instead of having to bunker down for a century or two hoping the tech catches up and the cryo tubes don't fail. Hell yeah we should stay.
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Jan 6, 2017 01:44
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That's good news about the shields, though we should confirm that the muons are covered, maybe that already got brought up. How feasible would it be to build a wearable one use short duration energy shield? Trusting we're all under the dome when we need to be could be tragic.
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Jan 7, 2017 13:13
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McSpanky posted:This planet is basically Mars halfway through a good terraforming plan, plus bonus geothermal resources. It's a gift and we should be thankful the issues it does have can be solved at our existing technology level instead of having to bunker down for a century or two hoping the tech catches up and the cryo tubes don't fail. Hell yeah we should stay. This! Let's turn this house into a home.
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Jan 13, 2017 16:18
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Lets stay because more time in cryo is more time then robots and other colonies outpace us. Also more people may die and those who live will be pissed we bailed on a totally workable planet we have all the tools for because "it's haaard".
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Jan 14, 2017 00:39
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I agree that we should stay, and I reiterate that we ought to look into the viability of the polar landing site as a colony spot. As an extra layer of insurance against stellar radiation hazards. Both staying and leaving are major decisions and it wouldn't do to go in half-cocked either way.
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Jan 14, 2017 19:09
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If shields work well enough to block the radiation, the best way to keep them reliable is the geothermal, and C? I think, has the best geothermal potential. I doubt the polar region will be much less dangerous during a storm. But really I'd have thought Olo would have tallied up and gone with something by now, we must be in a 6 way tie. vorebane fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 11:42
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vorebane posted:If shields work well enough to block the radiation, the best way to keep them reliable is the geothermal, and C? I think, has the best geothermal potential. I doubt the polar region will be much less dangerous during a storm. Olo is working furiously on his master's thesis, and sometimes gets distracted by that. I'll try to bang out an update today, though. Thanks for all your patience.
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Jan 15, 2017 15:46
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Do we have the means to reposition the space elevator once we've placed it?
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Jan 15, 2017 16:20
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Toast Museum posted:Do we have the means to reposition the space elevator once we've placed it? If it was built on a mobile platform, sure! In fact, most Earthbound elevator anchors have been designed as free-floating seagoing platforms to lessen the stress from the Coriolis force causing the cable to swing like a pendulum as the cars ride up and down, imparting angular momentum from the planet's rotation on it, which would otherwise have to be managed from the counterweight end alone. Since the cable is supported by centripetal acceleration pulling up on it from placing the counterweight far outside of geostationary orbit, it could hypothetically even be "anchored" in the atmosphere like a giant floating airport! Although with the high-density energy technologies at our disposal it probably wouldn't be difficult to deal with the angular momentum problem with a solid ground anchor anyway.
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Jan 15, 2017 17:17
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Olothreutes posted:Olo is working furiously on his master's thesis, and sometimes gets distracted by that. I'll try to bang out an update today, though. Thanks for all your patience. Vote to change the thesis
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Jan 15, 2017 19:11
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Make the thesis about space elevators 
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Jan 15, 2017 19:16
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Oh I forgot, no worries, that's more important than Adventures on Hooboy. The thesis is obviously about marginal environments!
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Jan 15, 2017 20:15
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Loel posted:Vote to change the thesis Seconding this. Hell, have you thought of a career in the fine arts?
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Jan 15, 2017 22:59
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Cannon_Fodder posted:Seconding this. My sister has her BFA from a very respected art school and struggles to make any money with it. She is also leagues more talented than I am. My degree(s) are in nuclear engineering, and with the sunk cost fallacy I will probably refuse to get a job doing anything that doesn't use them. Also I love what I do. The fact that most jobs in my field pay giant sacks of  doesn't hurt either.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:36
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Olothreutes posted:My sister has her BFA from a very respected art school and struggles to make any money with it. She is also leagues more talented than I am. So, psychology or philosophy? hrmm... a toughie.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:43
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vorebane posted:But really I'd have thought Olo would have tallied up and gone with something by now, we must be in a 6 way tie. I don't really even know where to start voting. There's a lot of uncertainty both about the choices and what other sort of options are feasible, plus it's a pretty big irreversible choice. This is a great cyoa though so I'm looking forward to it whatever happens.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:45
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Captain Mediocre posted:I don't really even know where to start voting. There's a lot of uncertainty both about the choices and what other sort of options are feasible, plus it's a pretty big irreversible choice. Voting is not closed, at least not properly, but I am working on the update. Please continue to make input or ask questions because they'll help me frame the sort of mood Tabitha is in. Right now she's all over the place, she has a lot of questions (and ideas) and wants more data, and is in part thinking that moving on is a better option (although the logistics of doing so are staggeringly complex). It is not a well defined vote, but the situation is also not particularly well defined. I appreciate the willingness of you guys to deal with this less structured stuff for the moment. I plan on (hopefully) getting back to more standard votes in the near future. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 21:51
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So, how much power can we produce? Can we produce the power required to speed up the rotation of the planet? Assuming a ferrous core, increased spin leads to a higher magnetic field which means at least some protection from radiation, right? It would put days back in line with earth days too, they're pretty long for people accustomed to earth days.
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Jan 17, 2017 10:45
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Mercykiller posted:So, how much power can we produce? Can we produce the power required to speed up the rotation of the planet? Assuming a ferrous core, increased spin leads to a higher magnetic field which means at least some protection from radiation, right? It would put days back in line with earth days too, they're pretty long for people accustomed to earth days. This is the kind of thinking I can really get behind.
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Jan 17, 2017 15:06
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Mercykiller posted:So, how much power can we produce? Can we produce the power required to speed up the rotation of the planet? Assuming a ferrous core, increased spin leads to a higher magnetic field which means at least some protection from radiation, right? It would put days back in line with earth days too, they're pretty long for people accustomed to earth days. How? Even if we had that sort of power, our hull wouldn't be able to deal with the stress of pushing the planet. Enough power to spin it faster might be enough power to disrupt an orbit?
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Jan 17, 2017 15:26
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus#Changing_rotation_speed
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Jan 17, 2017 16:39
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The radiation data is worrying, to say the least. A part of you thinks that maybe you would be better off trying to find another planet on which to settle. But habitable planets, even those as troubled as Hooboy, are hard to find in the galaxy and often far apart. Getting to another one would be a huge task, and would require you to find a great deal of fuel for your ship. In lieu of fleeing the system you elect to do what any good scientist would do. Gather more data. Getting better readings about the radiation storms on the surface, and maybe how you could protect your colony, is the first item on the list. An easy first step is to get a detector into a cave or some other shielded area so you can begin to differentiate between easily shielded radiation and the more penetrating, and thus more troubling, sort. Cedric saw a cave on the far side of a fissure, but the entrance was far below the surface and the rover is not equipped for scaling sheer cliffs. Cedric says he’ll look around for another cave or something, but you may simply need to make one to put a detector inside or get creative with an existing cave. You also want to check out the ship shields, because chances are that you’ll need to use them down on the surface. They have served you very well during your interstellar travels so you are hopeful that they will help keep things running smoothly on the surface. Getting everything down to the surface is a monumental challenge but one you are hopefully equipped and prepared to handle. The modular nature of the ship will help a great deal and the space elevator will decrease the difficulty of moving more massive things without a substantial increase in the amount of fuel expended. You’ll need to find a good place to anchor the elevator, or at least to place a platform in relative stability, but the slow rotational speed of the planet should help make station keeping from the ship a non-issue. To begin an analysis of this process you ask Bedia to wake up a few more engineers. People who can help with the process of getting things to the surface and setting it back up. And while she’s at it, a few people who can begin work on getting food production going. You have supplies that will hold your colony for a while but you will need to grow food eventually and getting started now is probably a good idea. The next item on the list of things is making stuff more livable for all of you on the surface. There are a number of ways that you can try to address this issue and you decide it’s better to diversify your approach. You hold a quick brainstorming session with the people awake to get ideas. Anything, even the most bizarre idea will be considered. To get things started you offer a few of your own ideas. Warming up the surface seems like a good long term goal, even if some parts of Earth were actually this cold it certainly wasn’t the whole planet by any means. What about large mirrors to put additional sunlight on the surface? ”That, well that might work.” Asta looks a bit skeptical as she says this, but continues, ”There are places we could put them, I mean. The L4 and L5 Lagrangian points would work, we could put something there and it would stay indefinitely. We would need to find a way to make sure they orient properly, but that shouldn’t be hard. Assuming we can actually build something like this, though.” ”It should be possible, yes. It wouldn’t be one huge mirror, but we can probably make something that would reflect a meaningful amount of sunlight. It would give the effect of a triple sun though, which might be a bit unsettling.” Tubal, always one to enjoy an impractical challenge, seems on board with the idea. ”Look, this might be doable in the long run, but I’m pretty sure we have larger issues that need solved and better places to put resources than giant mirrors in space. What about a greenhouse effect of some sort?” Silvia seems... maybe not disapproving, but more like she thinks there are better ways to get the job done? ”I want to take another look at those ice formations on the surface. Those bubbles are interesting and I want to know more about them.” 1. Getting additional information about the ice formations will use the same rover and tools as finding or making a cave in which to place a radiation detector. Which would you like to prioritize? A: Caves B: Ice C: I have a better idea! Fill in. You put forth some other ideas as well. Your expertise is in biological engineering, so it is only natural that your next suggestion is to begin making adjustments to the genome of the colonists in order to help address the issues on the surface. Radiation resistance is going to be hard to engineer into humans (hoomans?) but it can probably be done given enough time and resources. Improving the ability of the colonists to survive in the extreme cold will be easier and there are a number of places you can look for ideas or examples of how other organisms have adapted to such climates. You will conduct research on this topic yourself. You would also like to work on portable shielding solutions. You aren’t 100% familiar with the technology involved in the shields for the ship but you know there are both active and passive measures. The active measures include magnetic fields that are designed to deflect the charged particles. Because they have no impact on neutral particles the passive component is a complicated layer cake of various materials designed to slow and then absorb radiation that is incident on it. Carrying the passive components around would be impossible for a person but maybe it would be doable to create a smaller version of the active shielding? Miniaturization is a very complex task, and the power requirements of such a system might be beyond the scope of something portable by a person. At least a normal human. Someone with more substantial bionics could probably handle it, you halfway expect that Vlad could carry a reactor if he needed to. At this point you have several engineers awake, they are under the direction of Tubal. Right now he is devoting the majority of their time towards the logistics of getting the ship shielding down to the surface. In support of this task he has several people working on getting data about where to anchor the space elevator. A few others are looking at initial structural planning for a colony based on local topography, and at least one is working on a proposal for geothermal power solutions. 2. How would you like to direct your engineering resources? D: Leave the direction to Tubal. He may not work on the things I think are most important right away, but he understands the strengths of the team. E: Devote more resources to the shielding work. F: Devote more resources to the colony construction work. G: Devote more resources to the geothermal power project. H: I want to move resources to a new project. What is it? You have a few scientists awake, they are under the direction of Silvia. She is interested in pursuing attempts to create a greenhouse effect, and wants more data about the ice formations south of the proposed landing site. There is not a concrete direction for all of them, each seems to be working on their own pet project. One is looking into genetic repair mechanisms that could be engineered into colonists to promote radiation resistance, and another is looking into adaptations for extreme cold. 3. How would you like to direct your scientific research resources? J: Leave things as they are, under the direction of Silvia. K: Devote more resources to the greenhouse effect project. L: Devote more resources to the radiation resistance project. M: Devote more resources to the cold weather adaptation project. N: A new project. Fill in. Dr. Nilsson is currently being aided by Bedia, but if many more people are awoken he will need a larger team to handle it. He does not really have a team to direct at this time, but he and Bedia are making sure everyone is healthy and doing a bit of research on how they might help the radiation affected colonists. Asta does not have a team, her job was largely completed prior to your departure and the absence of any emergencies means there is not much for her to do. Right now she is working on some math to pin down the location of the Lagrangian points in the Hooboy-Tyson system. She thinks that there might be some debris stuck there and it would need to be cleared away to create space for the proposed mirrors. She is also helping the space elevator team when they have questions about the ship’s ability to do station keeping maneuvers. If you wish to wake additional crew, please say so. You can strengthen any team you would like. You currently have 18 people awake.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:06
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1. Getting additional information about the ice formations will use the same rover and tools as finding or making a cave in which to place a radiation detector. Which would you like to prioritize? A: Caves 2. How would you like to direct your engineering resources? D: Leave the direction to Tubal. He may not work on the things I think are most important right away, but he understands the strengths of the team. 3. How would you like to direct your scientific research resources? J: Leave things as they are, under the direction of Silvia. Would there be any cons to waking up more people?
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Jan 18, 2017 01:13
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1. A- We need the readings on the radiation underground to be able to make estimates on what we need for greenhouse gas emissions, shielding etc 2. F- We'll survive in the short term, but we need our manufacturing and other resources up ASAP so that we can implement whatever plan we come up with quickly and efficiently 3. M- Cold weather will kill us off in the short term
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Jan 18, 2017 01:19
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2E. Tubal seems to have a good handle on what needs done, but prioritising shielding means we can put a greater number of bodies down there on the engineering projects following thereafter. 3N. Not so much a new option as a prioritisation schedule. Cold weather adaptation, radiation resistance and then the greenhouse option. My mind may be changed on this though. edit: amending my vote to Plan McSpanky Hexenritter fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 01:19
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Hot Dog Day 80 posted:Would there be any cons to waking up more people? Currently you have a finite amount of food, as you aren't growing any. More people awake means you consume your existing stockpiles more quickly, but you have food for all 8,004 people for a year give or take. Rationing is pretty tight so it's not something you can really stretch too far. A few people at this point isn't a huge drain. If you want to wake up thousands of people it starts to make a difference.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:26
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First order of business is survival, as in the survival of our current crew and passengers when they make planetfall. The big projects can wait, we need to make sure we'll be alive five years from now when the colonists have eaten through all the food stores. 1-A Caves 2-F Colony Construction 3-N New project: begin assessing the landing site for food production. The cave and construction projects will provide ample opportunity to analyze surface samples around the area and begin preparing chemical and physical profiles of the upper layer of the crust.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:09
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McSpanky posted:First order of business is survival, as in the survival of our current crew and passengers when they make planetfall. The big projects can wait, we need to make sure we'll be alive five years from now when the colonists have eaten through all the food stores. This sounds good. Food, water, shelter. Greenhouse gases will take years or decades to take effect and we don't have that time at the moment. Tell Silva that she can investigate and greenhouse improvements to Hooboy are to be prioritized as soon as we have the short term future on lock. Scientists need to be directed and have their egos massaged.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:27
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amended my vote to Plan McSpanky as reflected above.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:47
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1. A, let's definitely see if the caves are livable, as the shielding data from the caves will affect all of our other plans regarding food and shelter. No sense focusing on underground colony options if they aren't any more survivable than a shielded surface site, or vis versa. 2. F, I definitely want Tubal's team looking into colony plans as soon as we collect the data necessary. There is a LOT of work to be done in getting several thousand people onto the planet safely, and the faster we get the basic structures and shielding set up and start use-testing, the better off we'll be as far as long-term survival goes. 3. M, let's wake up another scientist or two and get them working on the cold weather thing. This will be useful not only to us but to any flora and fauna we bring down with us. I think it's safe to say most of the plants from Earth are not suited for Hooboy's extreme environment. Do we have hydroponic set-ups available on the ship for short-term food production and/or specimen testing in orbit? I think it was mentioned but I forget and can't be bothered to go back and search it out.
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Jan 18, 2017 04:41
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McSpanky posted:First order of business is survival, as in the survival of our current crew and passengers when they make planetfall. The big projects can wait, we need to make sure we'll be alive five years from now when the colonists have eaten through all the food stores. This
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Jan 18, 2017 04:52
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A D J
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Jan 18, 2017 05:03
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Plan McSpanky
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Jan 18, 2017 05:59
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