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Slanderer posted:No it isn't, shitbrains. 27/50 US states are RTW, although I don't know about their actual populations.
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Jan 8, 2017 07:49
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Slanderer posted:No it isn't, shitbrains. Jesus Christ, two of them on the same page. Why don't you guys go look up what "right to work" means. And then, once you've spent some time learning what it means, look up "at-will employment." If you're still confused after that, never comment about labor laws again, tia.
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Jan 8, 2017 07:50
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I'm still confused, and a child-level breakdown would be rad? Cause that poo poo sounds roughly the same as "poo poo-canned for no reason, now go starve without unemployment" and "tanked for ~reasons~ get hosed" to me. Also unions aren't allowed in right to work? Oh my god labor laws make me feel dumb as a brick. I didn't realize we hated our workforce this much? I'm a welder and in a trade union so maybe I don't have to deal with this poo poo personally. fizzymercury has a new favorite as of 13:19 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 13:15
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In principle, right-to-work means an employee doesn't have to join a union to get a job. In practice, it weakens unions by reducing worker participation in unions. At-will means the employer can fire employees at any time for almost any reason. The exceptions to that include things like prohibiting terminations based on sex, religion, following the law, etc. The reason doesn't have to be tied to violating workplace policy, but if it is that can cut the employee off from unemployment.
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Jan 8, 2017 13:52
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So...everyone is hosed regardless? Wow that's a bad system. I've only ever been a cook, mechanic, hotel worker, or welder. I didn't know this poo poo, I'm not being dense, I had no idea. Retail sucks harder than I ever thought and that's soooo much. fizzymercury has a new favorite as of 14:04 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 14:02
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If the guy is being terminated because he's seasonal then he'll still qualify for unemployment. Right to work can suck, but it's not the end all rule. There are plenty of companies with policies that exceed government minimums. Most jobs I've had required a process for termination unless you had bestiality porn on your work computer or something. It mainly sucks for low skilled workers. But in places like France with a plethora of worker rights it's actually worse since employers won't hire people they know they can't fire. So a lot of young workers are unemployed or classified as temps. Some kind of policy in the middle of 'union utopia' and 'thunderdome job fair' would be nice.
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Jan 8, 2017 14:09
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I wore a fanny pack while working at Walmart: I needed some place to stash a flashlight (unlit parking lot) and extra disposable gloves/bags (food and dirty diapers left in carts). I quit, but if they wanted to fire me they could point to each thing as violation of store policy. The first as a violation of the shoplifting prevention policy banning employees carrying bags on duty. The second as an unapproved accommodation. The third as theft of supplies because I didn't remove them from the pack after taking it home. Even though I'd be back to work with the pack in a day or two. Or even if it was left in my locker.
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Jan 8, 2017 14:16
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fizzymercy posted:I'm still confused, and a child-level breakdown would be rad? Cause that poo poo sounds roughly the same as "poo poo-canned for no reason, now go starve without unemployment" and "tanked for ~reasons~ get hosed" to me. Also unions aren't allowed in right to work? Every time one of your union brothers complains punch him or her in the face. At least once a month I end up talking to some young union bartender that just got a job on the strip and have to explain to him that he shouldn't complain about dues because the rest of us get $7.25 an hour to his $15, have no health benefits, scheduling is decided by friendships or males have to work graveyard because "only hot girls can work swing", no PTO, and we can be fired for almost anything. Two jobs ago I got forced to resign because the owner found out I was dating his favorite server. You see, there's a "policy" that employees can't fraternize. Of course that policy didn't apply to her since she kept her job and got promoted to my old bartending position. He told me that I could resign and use him as a reference, or I could be fired and if any new employers call him he'd inform them of any bad thing I've done in the course of five years. The job after that I was never told why I was fired. They simply removed me from the schedule and the corporate office refused to take my calls. Turns out the new Director of Operations replaced all the current staff with his friends within two months. Anyone who has a problem with unions is either misinformed by sources like Fox News, or is a manager or business owner that is either motivated by greed or upset they can't make their own lives easier by being an immoral shitbag.
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Jan 8, 2017 14:57
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If I punched a union member every time they complained I would never stop punching dumbasses. They all complain. Dues, Fraternization, Dues, Obama, Dues, Trump, Dues, Taxes, Taxes, Pay increases (!?!), Dues, Tool Rules, Safety, Osha! The list is so long I forgot the rest. But holy gently caress my man, I'd still take all of that over what you're looking at. loving hell, we have a "no loving in Fight Club" rule and that still sounds more fair than what happened to you. Also, nice move on the references and friend promotions. loving dick bosses and their power moves. Unions have done nothing but save my rear end, but I know I'm in the minority (and also a woman, which seems to help?). I wish you better luck man. Edit: I worked as a female bartender for a hot minute and I know personally the strife, btw. Men have it weirdly lovely in that field. Seriously, I commiserate. (I'm not pretty enough for night work  )
fizzymercury has a new favorite as of 15:22 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 15:12
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I'm not even sure how this happened but I worked for a year at a grocery store as part-time, which means no unemployment. I ended up quitting. I then got a job as a courier, full-time. I was laid-off due to the recession, there just wasn't enough business and a lot of others were laid-off. I decided to file for unemployment. But instead of getting money from the courier company, they took money from the grocery store. How is this possible?
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Jan 8, 2017 15:23
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I get it. Unions have a very real and valuable place. Particularly for low skilled workers with few other protections and in trades where union membership represents a standard of work. But I got to be represented by the CWA as an IT worker and that was some fresh hell. In an office environment it's stupid easy to hide in the bathroom or look busy when a network alarm goes off. So pretty fast about 25% of the department just stopped working. Then came the massive brain drain because management couldn't give high performers more money. And when talent left you couldn't hire from outside because there was a backlog of lovely technicians from departments that had closed who had priority. We were unionized in 2003, I got out by 2005, the department was completely automated by 2009. They essentially had to shift any jobs that required technical skill to other non-unionized groups until all that was left were button pushers that could be replaced with an app.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:39
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fizzymercy posted:If I punched a union member every time they complained I would never stop punching dumbasses. They all complain. Dues, Fraternization, Dues, Obama, Dues, Trump, Dues, Taxes, Taxes, Pay increases (!?!), Dues, Tool Rules, Safety, Osha! The list is so long I forgot the rest. Thanks for the kind words! And yeah, sleeping with coworkers is universally stupid. But it's soooo common in the service industry that it's really hard not to join the party.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:43
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bean_shadow posted:I'm not even sure how this happened but I worked for a year at a grocery store as part-time, which means no unemployment. I ended up quitting. I then got a job as a courier, full-time. I was laid-off due to the recession, there just wasn't enough business and a lot of others were laid-off. I decided to file for unemployment. But instead of getting money from the courier company, they took money from the grocery store. How is this possible? you were a drug mule
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Jan 8, 2017 15:44
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Krispy Kareem posted:I get it. Unions have a very real and valuable place. Particularly for low skilled workers with few other protections and in trades where union membership represents a standard of work. Did middle and upper management still enjoy healthy bonuses and severance packages during these rough times?
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Jan 8, 2017 15:46
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13Pandora13 posted:I think most of the US is "right to work" these days, which is code for "right to shitcan you for no reason at any time so you don't qualify for unemployment." So don't worry about getting sued. Do worry about you getting fired, then him too if you disobey your lovely overlord boss. Right to work is terrible as gently caress, but you still qualify for unemployment. You basically always (theoretically) qualify for unemployment, but good luck getting it. Has nothing to do with right to work, besides the states that have those laws tending to be lovely about unemployment as well.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:50
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Unemployment is a pretty lovely consolation prize. Last time I was on it, it didn't include tips so I only qualified for $300 a week after taxes. Hard to survive on that when rent for a one bedroom apartment averages $1000/mo. in my city.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:55
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Hey y'all if you get fired you should apply for unemployment regardless. Depending on the state, you can still get unemployment based on the reason. States vary too much to make an informative post about what firing reasons make you ineligible. Failing a piss test might be a more universal one as is stealing.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:27
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zh1 posted:i was told to fire an employee and to "just tell him he was seasonal and temporary" and he isn't seasonal or temporary. we hire temporary people at christmas but this guy was put in as a regular employee. do i fire him and gently caress him over and risk getting sued or do i do the right thing and let him keep working and risk the ire of my moron childish boss? never a good answer, here in retail hell, FL This happened at the store I worked in a few years ago. A bunch of people got hired between October and November. January 2nd the store was open, there was a piddling handful of us and absolutely no customers because why would there be, and toward the end of the afternoon the manager took three people one by one into either the back room or the printer room I forget, and told them they were laid off due to poor sales performance. They had genuinely no idea to expect this as a possiblity because when they applied for the job it said nothing about temp/seasonal (and the timing made it clear that that was the real reason, besides the performance thing being, IIRC, bullsht). I felt bad b/c it was this one girl who had really horrible health problems and needed to work so she could evnetually afford some kind of surgery, and this guy who had 2 young kids who I think were special needs. And the third person was one of my good friends there. I remember being baffled they didn't fire this one hilariously yet frighteningly inept guy, like he was progressively getting worse at the job over the few months I worked with him. Nah, he stuck around a few weeks more and then quit, like walked out in the middle of a really busy Sunday morning, claiming that he felt creatively stifled by the work's expectations. 
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Jan 8, 2017 16:34
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Krispy Kareem posted:I get it. Unions have a very real and valuable place. Particularly for low skilled workers with few other protections and in trades where union membership represents a standard of work. Yeah, I'm in this camp. Unions might work in some positions/trades, but I take one look at the coworkers that would have seniority over me and thank my lucky stars I'm not in a union.
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Jan 8, 2017 17:19
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The problem is that union membership for 'good' jobs also creates scarcity so young workers are kind of screwed. Being a 50-something union worker is the ultimate 'got mine'. The union keeps you secure because it blocks entry into that industry. Not saying that's a bad thing, but SA users trend younger so it's a little ironic to hear them waxing nostalgic about a system that's all about keeping them out until Baby Boomers die or retire. You'd still benefit from unskilled union jobs though.CubanMissile posted:Did middle and upper management still enjoy healthy bonuses and severance packages during these rough times? Bonuses are usually tied to performance. If the company is making poo poo then compensation is impacted. Worse are stock options because those are tied to the current share price and are worthless if stock prices drop. If you're smart you get a guaranteed bonus like Wall Street brokers in 2007, where they received taxpayer funded bonuses even after their banks went belly up.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:17
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Krispy Kareem posted:The problem is that union membership for 'good' jobs also creates scarcity so young workers are kind of screwed. Being a 50-something union worker is the ultimate 'got mine'. The union keeps you secure because it blocks entry into that industry. Not saying that's a bad thing, but SA users trend younger so it's a little ironic to hear them waxing nostalgic about a system that's all about keeping them out until Baby Boomers die or retire. The boomers in the trades are dropping out quick though. If you can find a company who has smart management who sees this coming, the opportunity is there. The problem is they don't advertise trade jobs on twitter and snapchat. You have to look the oldschool way. By talking to people. In person.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:25
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I was in a grocery store union for about 8 years as a cashier. Even though our union rep was a complete waste of oxygen, and some of my friends got hosed over with scheduling and other things, I will fight to the death for that union. We got higher than minimum wage page, benefits (prescription, dental and optical which isn;t covered by healthcare in Canada) plus protection from unjust firing and other things. So yes, unions are great for younger people too.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:40
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MRC48B posted:The boomers in the trades are dropping out quick though. If you can find a company who has smart management who sees this coming, the opportunity is there. sir, you dropped your walking cane
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Jan 8, 2017 19:54
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Boomers are a scourge upon this world and we'll all be better off once they finally die.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:56
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Krispy Kareem posted:The problem is that union membership for 'good' jobs also creates scarcity so young workers are kind of screwed. Being a 50-something union worker is the ultimate 'got mine'. The union keeps you secure because it blocks entry into that industry. Not saying that's a bad thing, but SA users trend younger so it's a little ironic to hear them waxing nostalgic about a system that's all about keeping them out until Baby Boomers die or retire. You'd still benefit from unskilled union jobs though. One of the things there however is that only so many jobs in any given field actually exist. One of the problems with America right now is that you have hordes of people being educated for far fewer jobs than exist in certain fields. Part of the point of a union is that only so many entry level positions open every year as apprenticeships based on a mix of how many people will probably actually be needed and how many people can actually be trained. For trades, anyway. We're seeing again a failure of capitalism as all a for profit trade school, college, or university gives a poo poo about is getting as many students as possible in the door. How many jobs are available for certain education tracks is completely irrelevant. Get more students in seats so we can make more money! If they can't find a job after graduating that isn't our problem. This is also why the student debt crisis is so huge. The whole American system right now, top to bottom, is hosed in so many ways but there is no political will to fix it because freedom. Unions don't cause job scarcity. Job scarcity causes job scarcity. There is only a need for so many electricians at any given moment and a hell of a lot of union workers spend a significant chunk of their time laid off and between jobs. Oddly enough there are also employers that just loving love unions. One of the German car companies (Volkswagen, I think) actually didn't want to have a factory in America specifically because the workers voted against unionizing. They didn't want to have to deal with individual negotiations but rather talking to a union collectively.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:08
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Krispy Kareem posted:You also need to know how to tape record conversations. We had a manager at my job who tried recording his boss' yelling and verbal abuse. About halfway through the meeting his recorder filled up its storage and started autoplaying everything it had just recorded. A re-org announced the following week had one less managerial position. So he had proof that he was fired for being a whistleblower on abuse. Shouldn't he be able to use that?
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Jan 8, 2017 20:09
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:So he had proof that he was fired for being a whistleblower on abuse. Shouldn't he be able to use that? No they eliminated his position for totally, completely unrelated reasons. It wasn't him at all they just didn't need that position existing anymore.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:15
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It can't be that easy to shrug off.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:47
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:It can't be that easy to shrug off.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:04
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Mustached Demon posted:Boomers are a scourge upon this world and we'll all be better off once they finally die. More truer words havent been posted in a long time.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:16
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Unions don't cause job scarcity. Job scarcity causes job scarcity. There is only a need for so many electricians at any given moment and a hell of a lot of union workers spend a significant chunk of their time laid off and between jobs. Oddly enough there are also employers that just loving love unions. One of the German car companies (Volkswagen, I think) actually didn't want to have a factory in America specifically because the workers voted against unionizing. They didn't want to have to deal with individual negotiations but rather talking to a union collectively. Unions absolutely create job scarcity. One of their most important benefits is creating barriers to entry through apprenticeships and licensing. If you make it more difficult to enter a field then you make the people already in the industry more valuable. That is more skilled trade unions though. Unskilled labor unions don't use scarcity. They just make it impossible to hire non-union labor. Zesty Crab Legs posted:So he had proof that he was fired for being a whistleblower on abuse. Shouldn't he be able to use that? The act of recording your manager without his knowledge probably violated more corporate policies than yelling at people and being an rear end. It all worked out. He got a new job and telecommutes from a beach now.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:45
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Oddly enough there are also employers that just loving love unions. One of the German car companies (Volkswagen, I think) actually didn't want to have a factory in America specifically because the workers voted against unionizing. They didn't want to have to deal with individual negotiations but rather talking to a union collectively. That's actually a German cultural thing, I believe. Companies and Unions over there usually recognize that they have a common interest in making sure the company as a whole does as well as possible because the financial health which management is most concerned about does best when employees are happy and productive and employee happiness which the union is concerned about does best when the company has the money to provide paychecks and continue to exist next year so there's job stability, and both sides realize that the other side is more equipped to handle that need. It's just Germans being Germanly efficient.
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Jan 9, 2017 02:51
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Krispy Kareem posted:Unions absolutely create job scarcity. One of their most important benefits is creating barriers to entry through apprenticeships and licensing. If you make it more difficult to enter a field then you make the people already in the industry more valuable. quote:The act of recording your manager without his knowledge probably violated more corporate policies than yelling at people and being an rear end. If you are against unions in this day and age, you are a loving idiot, full stop.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:00
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Diesel emissions scandal executives are actually getting arrested. http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/09/business/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-investigation-settlement.html
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Jan 9, 2017 15:36
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pr0zac posted:Diesel emissions scandal executives are actually getting arrested.  
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Jan 9, 2017 15:41
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ryonguy posted:In other words the scarcity is preventing companies from being able to hire and fire at will, and reduce wages because they could do so were that the case. Almost as if the union is protecting the livelihood of its members or something. I'm not against unions. It's just this idea that unions would somehow make everything better is faulty. Too many worker protections are just as bad as too few, especially for young people. Unions create a nice baseline for other industries to set wages and benefits and a decent check on bad management decisions. They also hinder progress and create inefficiencies with perverse incentives in some professions. But for other jobs they're great. I want every person who touches an airplane to be in an union. I'm not sure I want teachers in an union (and I say that as someone who has worked in classrooms). It just depends on the industry.
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Jan 9, 2017 16:17
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pr0zac posted:Diesel emissions scandal executives are actually getting arrested. quote:German .....defraud the United States. Committed the one sin. Not a citizen doing the defrauding.
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Jan 9, 2017 18:55
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Committed the one sin. Not a citizen doing the defrauding. Pay back for all the emissions emitted in Dresden.
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Jan 9, 2017 19:54
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Mustached Demon posted:Pay back for all the emissions emitted in Dresden. Doesn't that make Dresden a renewable resource since they rebuilt it?
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Jan 9, 2017 20:05
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Mustached Demon posted:Boomers are a scourge upon this world and we'll all be better off once they finally die. My parents are pretty cool, actually.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:22
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