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I started up a new game on Commander the other day, and I discovered that yeah, I actually agree with Guava on that spark style. Not the dumping on Bulwark, which I find myself missing, but drat it's fun to just crash around and hit overdrive all the time, and just start poo poo and instigate. It's pretty great.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:12
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Cythereal posted:Still, I'm not a fan of any perk or build where "get shot" is part of how it works. Not even the stupid XCOM:EW MEC build where you tried to optimize for minimum pilot health so a 14 health MEC could tank like 12 shots?
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Jan 12, 2017 06:40
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Jade Star posted:I am never in favor of counting on things with one in three odds. Yeah, you're in favor of one in twenty odds, instead 
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Jan 12, 2017 07:44
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Reaper's real problem is it's a skill about feeding kills to a Colonel. If it came earlier, and wasn't going against Rapid Fire, it might see more use.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:46
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Jade Star posted:Hunter Protocol has potential to be a big swing hit, seriously weakening a just revealed pod of aliens. The problem for me is the 33% chance to activate per alien. As Guava rightfully mentions that is statistically a free shot on a pod of 3 aliens. I think he however overstates how much good that will do, as it still relies on a SPARK with their mediocre aim hitting an overwatch shot. Still it has potential to be pretty impactful during a mission and may wipe out or weaken a member of a fresh pod. Rough math would indicate that this has a 70% chance to activate on a three-unit pod. Which is still good especially since free shot, but 70% is not 100% as XCOM teaches us.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:52
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I'm not great with the real math behind it but ballparking 3 33% chances is essentially as good as 1 activation. There's going to be a whole spread of 1 activation, 2, and 3 activations as well at lower odds. But that would require me to know statistics!
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Jan 12, 2017 10:58
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Yeah, point is it should average out at 1 activation per 3 person pod.
I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jan 12, 2017 11:30
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The other problem being how it's suppose to one shot everything like Guava is claiming? Unless hes referring to having Julien specced out with Wrecking Ball, Hunter Protocol and the skill name that escapes me at the moment (less aim penalty on Overdrive shots) together?
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Jan 12, 2017 11:45
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vdate posted:Not even the stupid XCOM:EW MEC build where you tried to optimize for minimum pilot health so a 14 health MEC could tank like 12 shots? I hardly ever use MECs in general after Portent and Newfoundland. A fine early game crutch, but once I have enough meld to get the gene lab up and running I always switch to gene troopers.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:01
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Punch all the xenos
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Jan 12, 2017 22:46
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Well. Let's do the math. It's a 33% activation, so the chance that it would not activate is approximately 2/3. Assuming the skill doesn't trigger at all on a three-alien pod, we have: (2/3)*(2/3)*(2/3) = ~0.296 So the chance that the skill will trigger at least once in a three-alien pod is just over 70%. That's pretty good odds, and only goes up the more aliens you throw in. The chance that it'll go off ONLY once is something like 44.44%. (For completion's sake, the chance that it'll activate at least twice is around 26%, and if you want three activations, you're looking at around 3.7%) Stormgear fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 23:22
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vdate posted:Not even the stupid XCOM:EW MEC build where you tried to optimize for minimum pilot health so a 14 health MEC could tank like 12 shots? That was awesome. What really made it broken is that a single medikit charge could then bring it back to full health. Well, that and it could eat twice as many hits from close range if you made it out of an assault MEC.
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Jan 13, 2017 00:28
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Cythereal posted:I hardly ever use MECs in general after Portent and Newfoundland. A fine early game crutch, but once I have enough meld to get the gene lab up and running I always switch to gene troopers. I can't help but think Guava would have Words for you on this subject. Granted, most of them would probably be 'boosh', but the point stands.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:48
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Really enjoying the LP! But you are physically hurting me with how conservative you are with your Rangers, especially the one with Untouchable! Seriously, ranked up rangers don't need cover! You have them 100% hit and crit an enemy at point blank range, and use implacable to retreat or have the non ranger chumps kill alien 2 out of 3 and just leave them out as bait for the third dude to pointlessly attack. It's like a free mimic beacon!
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Jan 13, 2017 18:58
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vdate posted:I can't help but think Guava would have Words for you on this subject. To each their own. I've done MEC games, and ultimately I prefer a colonel assault/support/heavy/sniper with a full kit of gene mods over a MEC any day every day. Even then, I prefer the flamethrower over the punch for the panic.
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Jan 14, 2017 00:43
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Cythereal posted:To each their own. I've done MEC games, and ultimately I prefer a colonel assault/support/heavy/sniper with a full kit of gene mods over a MEC any day every day. Even then, I prefer the flamethrower over the punch for the panic. I prefer the MECs. Really, that's just because I prefer normal troopers but can get the MEC online to provide additional punch* until I can get to at least lasers if not plasma (being able to kill a chryssalid in one action is incredibly important in places). *pun not intentional but I'm keeping it.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:11
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ulmont posted:I prefer the MECs. Really, that's just because I prefer normal troopers but can get the MEC online to provide additional punch* until I can get to at least lasers if not plasma (being able to kill a chryssalid in one action is incredibly important in places). Like I said, I regard and use MECs as an early game crutch. I make them and use them, then take them off active duty once I get lasers and carapace online - usually around the time I attack the alien base. MECs are useful, but I find their relative value peaks early and then drops off whereas gene mods take a while to get up and running but end up solidly enhancing your troops.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:19
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Cythereal posted:Like I said, I regard and use MECs as an early game crutch. I make them and use them, then take them off active duty once I get lasers and carapace online - usually around the time I attack the alien base. MECs are useful, but I find their relative value peaks early and then drops off whereas gene mods take a while to get up and running but end up solidly enhancing your troops. See, I liked gene mods, but a maxed out MEC filled a niche nobody else could. Ignoring the broken status of mimetic skin, gene mods just let your guys do what they did already a little better. MECs fire off two high damage shots a turn, fire shells outside LOS, give you unlimited cover destruction, and generally allow you to do things no other units can do.
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Jan 14, 2017 07:11
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Cythereal posted:Like I said, I regard and use MECs as an early game crutch. I make them and use them, then take them off active duty once I get lasers and carapace online - usually around the time I attack the alien base. MECs are useful, but I find their relative value peaks early and then drops off whereas gene mods take a while to get up and running but end up solidly enhancing your troops. Sit down your MECs? But how will you punch things? Or set them on fire? Or make lame Terminator jokes with?
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Jan 14, 2017 07:56
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chiasaur11 posted:See, I liked gene mods, but a maxed out MEC filled a niche nobody else could. Ignoring the broken status of mimetic skin, gene mods just let your guys do what they did already a little better. MECs fire off two high damage shots a turn, fire shells outside LOS, give you unlimited cover destruction, and generally allow you to do things no other units can do. The unique things a maxed out MEC brings to the table, I consider less valuable than what a maxed out gene trooper (even without mimetic skin) brings to the table instead.
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Jan 14, 2017 13:02
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Cythereal posted:The unique things a maxed out MEC brings to the table, I consider less valuable than what a maxed out gene trooper (even without mimetic skin) brings to the table instead. BOOSH
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Jan 15, 2017 22:15
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Shei-kun posted:Counterpoint: Someday Guava will have to do this again.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:18
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Cythereal posted:The unique things a maxed out MEC brings to the table, I consider less valuable than what a maxed out gene trooper (even without mimetic skin) brings to the table instead. Mobility, durability, and absurd damage output are all pretty good. A Not Created Equal or late promotion sniper or support MEC lets you fire the biggest guns in the game twice a turn with a high degree of accuracy. I'm not saying to build a whole team of them, especially since they can't be psychics, but there's so much a MEC can do to help the team, depending on the build. They're excellent for both flushing swarms from cover and dealing with fuckoff huge single targets with the highest damage options in the game. I can see the appeal of running gene mods, but I prefer getting new options to being able to do what I was doing already a little better.
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Jan 16, 2017 02:15
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chiasaur11 posted:especially since they can't be psychics Or equip a mind shield. Or have the "screw you and your mind control" gene mod. A mind-controlled MEC is a big problem.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:05
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I got two separate videos in my youtube subsriptions that say that there is now a long war mod for XCOM 2. So if you're into that sort of thing, go hog wild.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:59
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Wheany posted:I got two separate videos in my youtube subsriptions that say that there is now a long war mod for XCOM 2. So if you're into that sort of thing, go hog wild. And it looks really good and I wish I had bought xcom 2 on the winter sale :c
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Jan 19, 2017 17:20
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Nalesh posted:And it looks really good and I wish I had bought xcom 2 on the winter sale :c Its the early buy in for the next Humble Monthly, so you can get it for USD$12.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:23
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There's a lot in Long War 2 I really don't like, so I believe I'm going to abstain. It feels like they just hate any kind of reliable convenience, or anything with a reliable, consistent use. I predicted before the information came out that they would utterly neuter the ability of grenades to destroy cover, and introduce another grenade or similar mechanic that does that and little else - turns out I was almost right. While i haven't played it myself to test, supposedly the ability to destroy cover with grenades is incredibly weakened unless you take specific perks on the Grenadier class. So in a way, it's even worse than what LW1 did, because at least then you could just give any soldier the HE Grenade (I think that was what the cover-destroying one was called?), now the only ones who can reliably destroy cover with grenades are a single class, out of nine. I'm sure the mod will nonetheless appeal to a lot of people, but there's just too much I dislike about it to count myself among them.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:24
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BlazetheInferno posted:There's a lot in Long War 2 I really don't like, so I believe I'm going to abstain. It feels like they just hate any kind of reliable convenience, or anything with a reliable, consistent use. That was one of my biggest issues with the first Long War mod. Never played it myself but watched a lot of Beaglerush playing through it. While there was a fair bit of changes that I liked, the random map placement instead of starting at the same spot every time, a lot of the new gear they introduced, that was cool. But they insisted on gimping every established tactic they could, like making berserkers able to jump onto buildings so people couldn't hide anymore, killing the instigator of a mind meld no longer killed both, among others. Dont get me started on their chain panic system, one trooper takes a light wound and next thing you know three troopers total are now crying for their mommies. Then they started giving aliens class abilities and holy hell. I remember a mission where Beagle was dealing with a thin man with squad sight. He had a berserker breathing down his people's necks which meant every turn that thin man was sniping away at them from the other side of the map, he lost a couple good soldiers in that mission. There are people who love that kind of difficulty spike, but I'm not one of them.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:44
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The thing that turned me off of their mods was actually their little ADVENT security drone that could show up the mission after Gatecrasher. It's a little thing, but it was a puzzle that taught me that poo poo wasn't for me. For those who don't know, it's a little 3 HP drone. It's got a pretty cool design even. It's also got two armor and is usually paired with a sectoid as far as I've seen. Its attack is a multi-turn stun, which it can then follow up with a murder shot on the next turn. Fighting it as the first pod you run into on a map usually ended with one of my people eating a mindspin, the second eating a stun, and usually one or two dying because if you brought a health kit instead of just grenades then lol, sucks to be you. Their lasers are pretty, I like their aesthetics. I didn't get terribly far through their class pack, as it seemed like a lot of the useful stuff was shunted further down the trees in a lot of cases. I barely remember though. The whatever they renamed the ranger to and shinobi's (lol) blades get a pretty huge buff, but that doesn't make up for the grenades. It's probably going to be amazing for somebody, but not my cup of tea.
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Jan 20, 2017 20:09
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Rabidredneck posted:That was one of my biggest issues with the first Long War mod. Never played it myself but watched a lot of Beaglerush playing through it. While there was a fair bit of changes that I liked, the random map placement instead of starting at the same spot every time, a lot of the new gear they introduced, that was cool. But they insisted on gimping every established tactic they could, like making berserkers able to jump onto buildings so people couldn't hide anymore, killing the instigator of a mind meld no longer killed both, among others. Dont get me started on their chain panic system, one trooper takes a light wound and next thing you know three troopers total are now crying for their mommies. Beagle is kind of the exact wrong example, since he's best known for his top-difficulty runs and such, but yes, I do agree that Long War 1 was a lot of bullshit at times. I'm starting my own game of Long War 2 on Veteran, so I'll see how rough it is and if they've tweaked it overall.
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Jan 20, 2017 20:15
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Green Intern posted:Beagle is kind of the exact wrong example, since he's best known for his top-difficulty runs and such, but yes, I do agree that Long War 1 was a lot of bullshit at times. I'm starting my own game of Long War 2 on Veteran, so I'll see how rough it is and if they've tweaked it overall. I look forward to reading people's complaints about LW2; my preferred method of playing 1 was to just identify the most annoying stuff (Air game) by reading what others hate, and then alter the mod to get rid of it. Turns out that if you only keep the parts you like it's pretty fun! (Although I understand that editing arcane config files to get there isn't for everyone.)
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Jan 20, 2017 22:16
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Andrevian posted:The thing that turned me off of their mods was actually their little ADVENT security drone that could show up the mission after Gatecrasher. It's a little thing, but it was a puzzle that taught me that poo poo wasn't for me. The drones aren't too difficult to hit at least. They usually only have 1 armour, but maybe you were playing on a higher difficulty? If you like the class stuff, try just using the Long War Perk Pack. I had a pretty fun game or two using their pre-LW2 mods Shook up enough stuff, but still the same overall feel usually. I'm going to sink a few more hours in, but I think I'm going to skip LW2 just because I've a huge backlog of other games, and I'm not very good at XCOM.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:21
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Tylana posted:The drones aren't too difficult to hit at least. They usually only have 1 armour, but maybe you were playing on a higher difficulty? I might have been, yeah. I'm going to give it all another shot after a few months of other folks hashing out their opinions on it.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:25
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Akratic Method posted:I look forward to reading people's complaints about LW2; my preferred method of playing 1 was to just identify the most annoying stuff (Air game) by reading what others hate, and then alter the mod to get rid of it. Turns out that if you only keep the parts you like it's pretty fun! (Although I understand that editing arcane config files to get there isn't for everyone.) Yeah that was my main problem with it, and why I didn't ultimately play it for too long. There were two or three good ideas packaged with eight or nine awful ones. As I'm not too into mods in the first place that was a level of fiddling I deemed not worth it. I'll wait and see how LW2 shakes out but I'm betting on more of the same.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:45
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Due to a multitude of reasons havent been able to check long war 2 yet But I did take some quick looks on youtube and it adds a lot of cool stuff Just hoping really hard that its not like long war 1 where the bad far outweights the good And the mod insults you for trying to make it easier (might be confusing with a different mod) Also, a quick aside, a lot of the bad and nedless dificulty stuff added on long war mods seem to be chalked up to -catching the original xcom spirit- ...which I kind of feel is bullshit cuz I've played all the classic xcom games, and they are nowhere near that hard (with the 1 infamous exception)
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Jan 20, 2017 23:06
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Did you guys confuse this with the Games thread? Everyone knows that the only XCom mod Jade will ever LP is XPiratez.
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Jan 20, 2017 23:34
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Slightly more related to this thread, I finally got around finishing the drat game, because Jade started seeing enemies I never had before. I guess this is as good of a motivator as any.
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Jan 20, 2017 23:46
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Attestant posted:Slightly more related to this thread, I finally got around finishing the drat game, because Jade started seeing enemies I never had before. LPs have made me finish, play and replay so many good games (Notably breaking my fear/stupidity rut in Dark Souls). Thanks LPers! Has Jade covered Continent Bonuses and stuff in XCOM2? There's at least one that combos with the DLC hilariously (extra weapon mod slots I think?) And I'm a little interested whether anyone actively chases them. Also Laboratory(ies).
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Jan 21, 2017 00:21
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Olesh posted:Did you guys confuse this with the Games thread? Everyone knows that the only XCom mod Jade will ever LP is XPiratez. I'm sad I never heard of that before today.
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Jan 21, 2017 00:34
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