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Hey car buying thread, I'm finally considering buying a car for more that $3k that isn't also at least twenty years old (OBDII  ) and am curious what y'all think.Proposed Budget: Under $10k New or Used: USED Body Style: Wagon How will you be using the car?: Commuting to work (under 10miles each way), moving A/V equipment (speakers, projectors, etc), possibly moving family/kids/corgis around, occasional long distance trips (under five hours, mostly) Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Don't care, my current primary vehicle has an AM radio. Just need a way to setup an aux jack if it's too old to have one from the factory. No need for navigation, touchscreen, any of that. I like leather, but it's not a deal breaker What aspects are most important to you? Size (I've got a 94 Roadmaster that'll hold a sheet of plywood with the back closed), road comfort (not ride like a van/pickup), and be ok running 87 octane I've had a couple of Volvo wagons (all older red blocks), that Roadmaster, a Hornet wagon, Sable wagon, three vans, and an 80's Jimmy, so I have a pretty good idea how a station wagon works for my needs. I was fine keeping the Roadmaster, but the optispark fried again and I'm tired of loving with that drat thing. GM also had the poo poo interior quality in the 90's and everything was always cracking and falling apart in that thing so not bothering with finding another. I really liked the Volvos I've owned, but the red block gets real bad mileage in addition to being slow. The Sable was too boring, the Hornet gets abysmal mileage and is too small, the full-size vans are too tiring to drive constantly, and I'm not into SUVs so another Jimmy/Blazer/Explorer wouldn't work. I've also got four cars currently, so I won't be putting a shitload of miles on this thing. Usually under 5k miles go on any of my cars in a given year, assuming they're running. The newest car I've got right now is the Buick and it's a 94, so just about anything will be a serious upgrade. Vehicles I'm considering: Ford Flex (2009-?) Ford Freestyle/TaurusX (don't know much about these, really, and they weren't around long) Volvo V70/XC (2000-?) Saab 9-5 Wagon (2000-2010) Audi A4 Wagon (2000-?) BMW 3-series Wagon (E36 or E91) The Flex and Volvo are the two favorites currently and I'm partial to the Flex, although there aren't many for sale and the prices are all over the place. Anyone have much experience with them? I've only ever owned RWD Volvos, but am willing to settle for FWD if need be. I'm in the south and really don't need AWD for anything, but will take it if the price is right. I really like the styling of the Saabs, but am not sure on how much longer they'll be reasonable to maintain even if that company keeps making parts.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:05
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The Flex was the most comfortable car I've ever been in. The front seats were heavenly. Spacious and comfortable, and the ride was nice. Didn't handle snow all that well, but whatever. Climate change is rendering that moot.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:37
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Sixty thousand miles checkup done. I definitely replaced my own spark plugs and I feel like a BIG BOY
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Jan 18, 2017 13:13
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Why are EVs so cheap on resale compared to gas cars at similar low mileage?
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Jan 18, 2017 13:15
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Sir Tonk posted:Vehicles I'm considering: The Freestyle/TaurusX had a bad CVT and were generally not good, so I'd leave them off. The 9-5 wagon was not reliable with a terrible LPT Opel V6 that is very prone to sludging. You have some pretty unreliable cars on the list, and while you're mechanically inclined, working on new stuff is a pain in the rear end compared to RWD Volvos and big GM iron. You could also consider a Subaru Outback or Legacy Wagon. Do you have a strong opposition to a minivan? If not, that could also be a good call for your intended uses since they ride pretty well compared to BOF vans and are massive.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:58
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ZenVulgarity posted:Why are EVs so cheap on resale compared to gas cars at similar low mileage? I assume limited battery life (no one wants to get stuck having to replace them) and new technology people are unsure of. People buying used cars have different criteria than people buying new cars. Exciting high-tech stuff is less exciting when you need basic transportation.
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Jan 18, 2017 14:03
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Deteriorata posted:I assume limited battery life (no one wants to get stuck having to replace them) and new technology people are unsure of. People buying used cars have different criteria than people buying new cars. Exciting high-tech stuff is less exciting when you need basic transportation. What is they life span and cost to replace those batteries on average?
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Jan 18, 2017 14:04
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ZenVulgarity posted:What is they life span and cost to replace those batteries on average? Typically around $5,000, and they're supposed to last about 100,000 miles. Depends on the make. Being new technology, no one's exactly sure how it's all going to shake out long term, so everyone is a bit leery of it. In ten years, swapping out battery packs may be no big deal, but that 's not obvious at the moment.
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Jan 18, 2017 14:07
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The other issue is that a lot of these cars are lease turn ins on massively subsidized compliance leases, and there were heavy tax subsidies to push sales, so the (very small) market is really distorted by the fact that a bunch of cars that most people didn't really want were sold well below MSRP. I actually think a gently used Volt, or Leaf/500e is a screaming deal as a second car. Sure, the tech isn't quite the latest and greatest, but for the price you get a decent amount of capability. You can pick up a Leaf or 500e for $12-14k all day long at this point.
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Jan 18, 2017 14:11
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In addition to those factors, the technology of EVs is still rapidly maturing. A 6 year old gasoline economy car just isn't that fundamentally different from the new generation of the same car. But each new generation of EV is leaps and bounds ahead of the last one. Despite how good they've gotten, EVs are still in the early adopter phase which means rapid depreciation.
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Jan 18, 2017 20:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You could also consider a Subaru Outback or Legacy Wagon. Do you have a strong opposition to a minivan? If not, that could also be a good call for your intended uses since they ride pretty well compared to BOF vans and are massive. Don't like Subaru, outside of the BRZ, and I'm really not into minivans. That's why I went with the Roadmaster in the first place, it's got most of the capacity of a van, but it rides like a Cadillac. After reading up on the 9-5, it sounds like the turbo four they changed to in 2004 is more reliable than the previous motors. I found an 04 with a 5 speed that looks awesome, but I'm more inclined to get a Flex if I can afford it. It sounds like the modern version of exactly what I want. I'm also partial to Ford.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:45
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Sir Tonk posted:Don't like Subaru, outside of the BRZ, and I'm really not into minivans. That's why I went with the Roadmaster in the first place, it's got most of the capacity of a van, but it rides like a Cadillac. At least consider a minvan, IMO. It would fit your needs very well. We've got an Odyssey and it is terrific for long trips with the family, and my wife drives it as a daily commuter, getting high 20s MPG. It's great for hauling people and stuff very comfortably. When it's just the two of us we take my Fiat Spider. 
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Jan 18, 2017 22:09
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Sir Tonk posted:Don't like Subaru, outside of the BRZ, and I'm really not into minivans. That's why I went with the Roadmaster in the first place, it's got most of the capacity of a van, but it rides like a Cadillac. Still wouldn't buy a 9-5 wagon, the turbo four has DIC problems and a bunch of other poo poo as well including sludging and PCV issues. If you really don't care about reliability, go nuts. If not, hold out for the Flex. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 23:12
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Proposed Budget: Not sure, maybe £20k New or Used: Used - say 2 years old Body Style: 4 door SUV How will you be using the car?: Light use around town. Occasional 100miles runs. Mostly 2 people. Occasional towing of caravans. Will probably never go offroad. What aspects are most important to you:Being a Mazda Tribute 3. UK My father's 1st gen Mazda Tribute (aka Ford Escape) is showing its age and he wants to replace it. He really likes it (god knows why), so something of a similar size/type Not really a performance freak (though, nothing too anaemic). Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?
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Jan 18, 2017 23:12
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What about a Ford Escape?
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Jan 18, 2017 23:21
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nm posted:What about a Ford Escape? Ah! We call them the 'Kuga' - which explains why I couldn't find them here. Not to be confused with the 'Ford Cougar', which you know as the 'Mercury Cougar'. I hate marketing people. Looks promising. As does the Mazda CX-5 (he'd probably prefer the Mazda badge to the Ford one - yes, yes I know the Tribute was also a Ford. I still hate the marketing depts)
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Jan 18, 2017 23:27
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CX-3 is a thing too if he wants/can tolerate a hair smaller.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:39
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Might end up going a bit over $10k for a Flex, it sounds like a much better choice overall. The main draw for the 9-5 is the manual trans possibility, but I'm still working on building a 79 Volvo with a manual so might just be happy with that once it's done in a year or two (or three). I get the practicality of a minivan and probably *should* get one, but it's just not an option as far as what I want to drive.
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Jan 19, 2017 03:13
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What are the thread's thoughts on the MINI Countryman or Clubman? Lots of people, myself included, asking for various smaller hatches/crossovers/wagons etc. and I've noticed nobody had brought those up. They seem like decent options on paper, especially the 2017 Countryman that's coming out this summer, but I'm totally open to the fact that I am oblivious to something bad about them.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:45
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Proposed Budget: Up to $25k or so  New or Used: New or lightly used Body Style: Hatchback, CUV How will you be using the car?: wife's daily driver. ~45min commute right now but she's planning on getting a job closer to home after mat leave. Baby stuff, transporting dumb junk home from Homesense. Throwing the dog in the hatch. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? gizmos are cool. Don't care too much about semi-autonomous features but being able to plug a USB stick in to play .mp3s is great although I'm sure this is fairly standard now anyway What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, safety, cargo space, fuel economy. Wife's 2004 Civic is starting to show its age and now we have a son and dog that need to be carted around. I have a MT '08 Accord coupe that she can't drive, but will last me quite a while still. Trying to figure out if we need the extra space provided by a CX5 or CR-V or if a CX3/HRV would work. Mazda3 hatchbacks always seem like a good choice, and I think the new Civic hatchbacks look rad although am wary due to it being a new model. From reading the thread I'm assuming the answer is going to be Mazda3 or CR-V and we'll have to test them to make sure she likes it (she's used to her tiny old civic) but what the hell.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:04
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RFX posted:What are the thread's thoughts on the MINI Countryman or Clubman? Lots of people, myself included, asking for various smaller hatches/crossovers/wagons etc. and I've noticed nobody had brought those up. They seem like decent options on paper, especially the 2017 Countryman that's coming out this summer, but I'm totally open to the fact that I am oblivious to something bad about them. I guess you'd have to take a look at them and see if they have the room to carry what you need to haul around. Mini's reputation is that they're fun to drive, but have reliability issues. I considered a Mini convertible my last time around. Almost bought one, so I understand their appeal.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:16
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RFX posted:What are the thread's thoughts on the MINI Countryman or Clubman? Lots of people, myself included, asking for various smaller hatches/crossovers/wagons etc. and I've noticed nobody had brought those up. They seem like decent options on paper, especially the 2017 Countryman that's coming out this summer, but I'm totally open to the fact that I am oblivious to something bad about them. MINI sell for a premium based on their brand image. Basically BMW but for a different crowd. Since there's no rational way to argue about whether the brand image is enough of a reason to buy a car or not - if you like it then you're going to buy it regardless, there's not much to talk about except point out that if you just want something that carries a certain amount of stuff for a certain amount of money there's almost certainly a better option from a more mainstream brand. MINI reliability has historically been some of the worst in the industry, as in rivaling Land Rover and FIAT for the absolute bottom of every single survey. There problems are noted for being bizarrely stupid, i.e. there was one generation with an AC compressor mount or something that was machined out of the engine block and broke all the time, so once it broke there was no repair other than to get a new engine. These are problems for new cars still under warranty. That being said the newer generations are technically different so maybe you shouldn't assume that nothing ever changes. The first generation MINIs were know for having very sharp handling because of a combination of being small and also having independent suspension at all 4 corners which was rare in cars of that size. By all accounts the sharp handling has long since gone with each successive generation and the Countryman isn't really even light or small either, so at this point it's just an average sized car with questionable reliability.
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Jan 19, 2017 05:26
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nm posted:What about a Ford Escape? KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:CX-3 is a thing too if he wants/can tolerate a hair smaller. Anything to be wary of with these (also the Outlander) - both in terms of design flaws ('oh, this model can't tow anything') or specific issues ('get a warranty on the drivetrain as they use glass gears')?
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Jan 19, 2017 12:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The other issue is that a lot of these cars are lease turn ins on massively subsidized compliance leases, and there were heavy tax subsidies to push sales, so the (very small) market is really distorted by the fact that a bunch of cars that most people didn't really want were sold well below MSRP. I'm just wondering if that's going to be a thing in a couple of years down the line still when I might seriously be looking.
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Jan 19, 2017 12:16
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ZenVulgarity posted:I'm just wondering if that's going to be a thing in a couple of years down the line still when I might seriously be looking. Most of the tax credits have a units sold sunset provision, but if you think the incoming admin is going to keep large federal tax credits in place for EVs I have some land for sale. Still, resale will likely be depressed due to early adopter factors, and stuff being sold/leased today is still under tax credits, so in 2020 there will likely still be good deals to be found. spog posted:Anything to be wary of with these (also the Outlander) - both in terms of design flaws ('oh, this model can't tow anything') or specific issues ('get a warranty on the drivetrain as they use glass gears')? The Outlander isn't very good, but it sure is cheap. I would be wary about towing a lot with the CX-3 since it's kind of short in the wheelbase, but yall crazy Euros tow stupidly high weights with stupidly small vehicles. How much weight does your pops tow? RFX posted:What are the thread's thoughts on the MINI Countryman or Clubman? Lots of people, myself included, asking for various smaller hatches/crossovers/wagons etc. and I've noticed nobody had brought those up. They seem like decent options on paper, especially the 2017 Countryman that's coming out this summer, but I'm totally open to the fact that I am oblivious to something bad about them. Unreliable, expensive, useless, and with BMW repair prices. What's not to love? At least now they're using PSA derived drivetrains so they're likely a bit more reliable. Only buy one if you really like style and handling, and really hate the Fiat 500.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:05
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acumen posted:Proposed Budget: Up to $25k or so We just had a discussion on the HR-V. It's not that good. You will be much better served by the CR-V especially if you are considering baby transport, junk transport, and dog transport. You might have to go gently used on the CR-V but that's fine, you just won't get the latest and greatest. The previous generation was a best seller for people who are exactly like you. The main difference between the 3 hatch and the CX-5 is ride height. You might also consider the Prius, it's fairly useful in size and checks pretty much all of your boxes - you might have to step up to PriusV for the cargo space, but that's still going to meet your needs well.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The Outlander isn't very good, but it sure is cheap. I would be wary about towing a lot with the CX-3 since it's kind of short in the wheelbase, but yall crazy Euros tow stupidly high weights with stupidly small vehicles. How much weight does your pops tow? Not sure exactly which caravan he has, but it is something like this: https://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/caravans/sterling-continental Length: 6.54m Weight (MTPLM): 1522kg Legal towing weight of the Kuga/Escape is 2100kg - higher limit than the Land of the Free? Though, I suspect he may get rid of it and not tow anything in the long run. Easy access to the rear cargo space is more important - for moving garden rubbish around The Outlander - anything particularly poor about it, or is it just and all-round 'meh'?
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Jan 19, 2017 15:29
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Should be OK for towing, then. It's good to keep a margin of safety between the weight of the towed object and the max towing capacity of the vehicle. The Outlander is A Car that isn't as good as any of its competitors at anything except maybe being cheaper.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:40
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Ok so howabout CTS Wagons? Seen a few early models for well under $20k with the 3.0 V6 and AWD. Anyone have experience with them?
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Jan 19, 2017 19:49
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Sir Tonk posted:Ok so howabout CTS Wagons? Seen a few early models for well under $20k with the 3.0 V6 and AWD. Anyone have experience with them? You're really stretching your budget at this point and the Flex fits your needs better.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:21
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Didn't the non-v ctses have some motor issues?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:24
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nm posted:Didn't the non-v ctses have some motor issues? The 3.6l had timing chain issues. The 3.0l was OK.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You're really stretching your budget at this point and the Flex fits your needs better. I can't find a decent Flex for under $20k, all the cheaper ones have well over 100k miles. I've found CTS wagons with around 50k miles for less. Throatwarbler posted:The 3.6l had timing chain issues. The 3.0l was OK. That's what I was curious about, thanks. Appreciate all the info, thanks y'all.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:03
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I need a tow vehicle. I'm buying a sailboat that should weigh about 3,500lbs on it's trailer and will utterly destroy my discretionary budget, so cheap is key. I'll be selling a boring rear end v6 Camry to fund this, so my budget is $3,000ish. The lake is about 30 miles away with a couple of hills in between, but eventually I'd like to head up to some high Sierra lakes so being able to pull the boat over 7,000ft would be nice. I don't expect (or care) much about looks or comfort. A SUV is slightly preferred because it would be nice to fit the whole crew, but single-cab pickups are cool too. I'm prepared to give whatever a tune up/brake job and shocks. 200k isn't a problem for me as long as it goes and stops, or can me made to do so inexpensively. I have late-90s Grand Cherokee on the brain because they are cheap, OBD2, not Xbox huge, readily available and cheap. How do the 4.0s tow? Is that a terrible idea? I'm open to other suggestions and willing to wrench. I'm even considering a $1500 T100 with a shot engine but that's probably a bad idea. Help me goons.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:15
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Boys who love boys
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monsterzero posted:I need a tow vehicle. I'm buying a sailboat that should weigh about 3,500lbs on it's trailer and will utterly destroy my discretionary budget, so cheap is key. I'll be selling a boring rear end v6 Camry to fund this, so my budget is $3,000ish. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aircraft-Tugger-Tug-Tow-Tractor-Truck-Propane-Low-Hours-8-000-lbs-Cap-/172485646920
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Jan 20, 2017 04:35
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H110Hawk posted:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aircraft-Tugger-Tug-Tow-Tractor-Truck-Propane-Low-Hours-8-000-lbs-Cap-/172485646920 Gonna need an extending tongue, for sure.
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Jan 20, 2017 04:44
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I'd try to find a Chevy Trailblazer with the Atlas 4.2 straight six. Gonna be tough to find one under 3K, but they'll tow 3500-5000 pounds very well. Grand Cherokees of that era have horrible brakes and the 4.0 isn't really powerful enough for your 5000lb load (boat + trailer + people + gear + parts + beer) plus a Grand Cherokee.
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Jan 20, 2017 04:54
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Later WJs have decent brakes, the bigger problem is they shred through rotors. But I will agree they aren't great tow vehicles. My 4.7 HO was about maxed out hauling a trailer I estimate at a similar weight up I17 to Flagstaff. I can't imagine doing it with the 4.0. If you want towing ability, go with the TrailBlazer or get something based on a full-size, like a Tahoe.
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Jan 20, 2017 04:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:Later WJs have decent brakes, the bigger problem is they shred through rotors. True, when was the switch? '99, I think. The WJ's have better brakes but endless issues with rear wheel bearings/seals. I changed at least 2 a week for years in the early-mid 00's.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:33
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JnnyThndrs posted:True, when was the switch? '99, I think. The WJ's have better brakes but endless issues with rear wheel bearings/seals. I changed at least 2 a week for years in the early-mid 00's. I didn't even think about the possibility of him considering a ZJ, so yeah  WJ started in 99, got better front brakes in 02ish? They stop great but even with the upgraded brakes they eat rotors as bad as pads. I still agree with you on the TrailBlazer. I've towed with each and the only problem with the 4.2L is that it really would be better with a five speed or six speed automatic. Or just get a 5.3 V8 because V8 is always the answer.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:41
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