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I watched regularly until Sting dropped the title to Hogan in 1998, then I watched sporadically, then when Goldberg dropped the belt I didn't watch any more WCW until the final Nitro. I did watch Ready 2 Rumble and Slamboree 2000 at a friend's house on VHS, though.
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Feb 2, 2017 15:38
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Halloween Jack posted:I didn't hold out until the end. Like a lot of people, I flipped back and forth between Nitro and Raw, and just watched Nitro less and less as time went on. When Jericho and the Radicalz left, I stopped actually following anything going on in the company. Then I couldn't watch WCW anymore because of the possibility that I might see a certain person with a guitar. Don't be hating on Jimmy Hart
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Feb 2, 2017 16:09
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Go to YouTube & listen to the Observer Live shows from around the last Nitro. Some people still had faith WCW would come back AFTER Vince bought them, they were that delusional.
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Feb 2, 2017 16:17
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dsriggs posted:Go to YouTube & listen to the Observer Live shows from around the last Nitro. Some people still had faith WCW would come back AFTER Vince bought them, they were that delusional. That was probably my favorite week of Observer audio, simply because as the week went on the calls kept coming and their responses became exceedingly more exasperated, like "...you really don't get that they're done?"
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Feb 2, 2017 16:23
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If you want to understand how the most rabid fans felt, look at the hate Meltzer gets from delusional TNA fans today just for talking about the company's financial realities. The exact same thing was happening then, they just couldn't tweet at him about it. He finds this, and I quote, "hilarious."
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 16:32
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dsriggs posted:Go to YouTube & listen to the Observer Live shows from around the last Nitro. Some people still had faith WCW would come back AFTER Vince bought them, they were that delusional. Also go to youtube and listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NubfQytUq3E if you want to hear the last forlorn hope for a dead company.
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Feb 2, 2017 16:41
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dsriggs posted:Go to YouTube & listen to the Observer Live shows from around the last Nitro. Some people still had faith WCW would come back AFTER Vince bought them, they were that delusional. if Vince could've kept them on TBS or TNT, I think they'd still be around as a developmental territorty
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Feb 2, 2017 18:13
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I'm just alternate history brainstorming here: if the WWF and WCW both died before 2001, when would that have happened?
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Feb 2, 2017 18:20
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm just alternate history brainstorming here: if the WWF and WCW both died before 2001, when would that have happened? This is my favorite bit of alt history to kinda play with. I've always theorized that had WWF gone bankrupt, Vince would have swallowed his pride and gone to work for Bischoff/Turner. But as WCW's incompetency under Bischoff start to come about and Vince started working his way up, eventually a change in top personnel would be needed, and who better than a guy who ran a national fed for almost two decades? So it leads to Vince McMahon booking WCW, and once the Time Warner/AOL merger comes about, Vince is able to find the other investors (Dick Ebersol/NBC-Universal still, perhaps) to buy out WCW and ends up being the last man standing again. Certainly not to the extent now, where Stone Cold never happens and the company doesn't go public, but like a good cockroach Vince stays alive.
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Feb 2, 2017 18:42
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1st AD posted:if Vince could've kept them on TBS or TNT, I think they'd still be around as a developmental territorty I feel like with ECW he tried the brand split again on something that wasn't tainted, and he still couldn't resist just eventually making it More WWE. At the heart of it all, Vince just only allows so much deviation from the core model- NXT is okay, but look at the Cruiserweights going from the very unusual-for-the-company sport-like presentation of the CWC to how they're used on Raw, which is just "smaller guys working WWE matches." The core definitely changes somewhat over time- like, WWE now has a better average quality of worker than when they were building angles around the likes of the Junkyard Dog or Uncle Elmer- but McMahon will only allow so far an outlier.
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Feb 2, 2017 18:49
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm just alternate history brainstorming here: if the WWF and WCW both died before 2001, when would that have happened? WCW - Maybe the Hogan experiment does worse business than it did historically. WWF - Vince goes to prison off of the steroid trial. Jerry Jarrett books the company, as planned. J A Double R E Double T 3:16 fails to set the world on fire.
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Feb 2, 2017 19:45
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm just alternate history brainstorming here: if the WWF and WCW both died before 2001, when would that have happened? I came up with the exact same concept. Unfortunately I lack the time/patience to actually create it. - Vince goes down in the steroid trials, Jerry Jarrett takes over. Unfortunately Jarrett is too stuck in his Memphis regional mindset, too intent on pushing his son as the face of the company, and too cheap to compete with WCW. Ultimately instead of Montreal being the beginning of WWF's turnout it becomes WWF's death knell instead, as WWF closes its doors soon after. - WCW capitalizes, signing much of the WWF's former talent, including Jarrett, the Harts, Shawn Micheals and HHH. Unfortunately this roster bloat creates even more political problems backstage, more financial problems in the long run and serves to hasten WCW's ultimate demise rather than extend its fortunes. - Fast forward to 2002. Vince is out of prison and buys the WWF IP back from a now defunct WCW and with the assistance of a personal friend who will remain nameless, brings the WWF back to life. Unfortunately reviving a company is tough and Vince finds his brand is no longer the national power house it used to be. Notable Members of starting roster: The Undertaker, Steve Austin, HHH, Shawn Micheals, Ric Flair. - Eric Bischoff finds investors to acquire the WCW IP but finds himself with no television, and a severely slashed budget. Will Bischoff be able to rebuild WCW from the ground up? Notable Members of Starting Roster: Hulk Hogan, The Giant, Bill Goldberg, Sting, Lex Luger - ECW, without the problem of losing its talent to the big two and consequently not being forced to grow beyond it's capabilities, continues its business as usual, with business being stronger than ever. Unfortunately ECW's product may never be palatable for national television. Notable Members of Starting Roster: Mick Foley, Taz, Raven, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz - The Harts, thoroughly disgusted with both WCW and WWF, retreat back home to Canada and decide to use their bloated WCW paychecks to revive Stampede Wrestling. They have a benefit of an extremely talented roster, but Canada isn't quite the hotbed of pro wrestling that the USA is and the clock is counting down on Bret's career. Notable Members of Starting Roster: Bret, Owen, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho - Jeff and Jerry Jarrett decide that they arn't out of the wrestling business just yet. They decide to take advantage of the 'extreme' 90's culture in 2002 and found TNA Wrestling. Unfortunately with most of the WWF's old workers thoroughly alienated they are forced to build the company mostly from workers that Bischoff's WCW couldn't resign. But the good news is; there are a lot of undiscovered pieces of indie talent that are getting a long, hard look from the two. Notable members of starting roster: Jeff Jarrett, Randy Savage, The Steiners, Rocky Maivia - Konnan and Rey Mysterio Jr. much like the Harts, find themselves disillusioned with their stay in WCW (but still with significant amounts of pocket change in their wallets). With the assistance of upcoming director Guillermo Del Toro, found Lucha Underground in the American southwest, still feeling that the WCW luchadores, if given the proper chance to shine, can get over with an American audience. Unfortunately one of the big problems with this company is a lack of English speaking workers to handle the speaking roles of their telenovela storytelling. But relief comes in the form of...former Olympic Gold Medalist Kurt Angle?!: Notable Members of Starting Roster: Rey, Konnan, Angle, The Guerreros In 2002, there are 6 Cult Wrestling companies in North America but no national presence. Who will be the first to take their slice of the pie Global in 2002 - The Warring States
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Feb 3, 2017 01:03
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If WCW and WWE died that would probably be the end of national-level wrestling until YouTube.
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Feb 3, 2017 01:09
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C. Everett Koop posted:This is my favorite bit of alt history to kinda play with. I've always theorized that had WWF gone bankrupt, Vince would have swallowed his pride and gone to work for Bischoff/Turner. But as WCW's incompetency under Bischoff start to come about and Vince started working his way up, eventually a change in top personnel would be needed, and who better than a guy who ran a national fed for almost two decades? Who better to run our business than the guy that ran the last one into the ground! Are you Dixie Carter??
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Feb 3, 2017 02:10
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Would you believe me if I told you I got confused and thought I was in the games thread? That was a TEW scenario. In reality: Jerry Jarrett was probably not the guy to go toe-to-toe with WCW. Maybe he can rally the horses and stave off going out of business much in the same way TNA has long enough for WCW to devour itself, but probably not. In that case: WCW still probably would have poached as many stars as they could from WWF's going-out-of-business sale. Bret, Owen and Shawn are the obvious ones. Beyond that it's hard to tell who the WWF's stars would have been, and thus who would be worth taking. Austin and Foley almost certainly don't go back, they'd probably go back to ECW, Japan or both. The Undertaker might try giving that fledging UFC thing a try. HHH would probably get brought in as a favor to Shawn, but would almost definitely be buried under a mountain of politics and far more marketable wrestlers. WCW running the WWF probably doesn't save them. They are still a fundamentally dysfunctional company who was ultimately condemned to fail regardless of the quality of the product or whether or not that were the sole national brand. Unless WCW was able to continue its 96-98 hot streak (and they wouldn't) they were getting severed the second the Time-Warner/AOL merger was complete and Ted was put out to pasture. So you basically wind up with a ton of wrestlers and nowhere to wrestle. Bischoff probably go out to pasture without a fight. Vince, once out of prison, would probably return to the wrestling game. Whether either would succeed is a matter of speculation. The USA network would probably salivate at the opportunity to get one of them on the air, and that would probably become the national brand. Even if both companies would just be shells of their former selves. It would probably make the indie scene pretty drat interesting.
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Feb 3, 2017 02:55
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ChrisBTY posted:Would you believe me if I told you I got confused and thought I was in the games thread?
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Feb 3, 2017 02:59
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ChrisBTY posted:I came up with the exact same concept. Unfortunately I lack the time/patience to actually create it. this sounds like a tew scenario i want
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Feb 3, 2017 02:59
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That's unrealistic. Lucha Underground would never push Mexicans
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Feb 3, 2017 03:04
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Alain Post posted:That's unrealistic. Lucha Underground would never push Mexicans Rey, Konnan, Angle and the Guerreros aren't from Mexico.
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Feb 3, 2017 07:09
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look i had a joke and i'm sticking with it
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Feb 3, 2017 07:14
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The real question is if the rise of UFC/MMA still happens independently of what happens to wrestling, since MMA having an earlier ascension means guys like Angle and Lesnar don't step foot into a wrestling ring.
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Feb 3, 2017 07:16
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ChrisBTY posted:In 2002, there are 6 Cult Wrestling companies in North America but no national presence. Who will be the first to take their slice of the pie Global in 2002 - The Warring States Which one is for benevolence? E: Also, why would the Harts be 'disgusted' in your scenario? Vince going to jail means Montreal never happens as there wouldn't be a huge bidding war between top stars if both companies were failing and flailing.
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Feb 7, 2017 09:02
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C. Everett Koop posted:The real question is if the rise of UFC/MMA still happens independently of what happens to wrestling, since MMA having an earlier ascension means guys like Angle and Lesnar don't step foot into a wrestling ring. Legislation probably would have stalled UFC at the same time it did independent of anything going on with wrestling. Maybe sooner, if it got increased attention due to the Big Two going down.
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Feb 7, 2017 13:19
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Halloween Jack posted:If you want to understand how the most rabid fans felt, look at the hate Meltzer gets from delusional TNA fans today just for talking about the company's financial realities. The exact same thing was happening then, they just couldn't tweet at him about it. He finds this, and I quote, "hilarious." Or look at the rapid WWE fans today who get upset when he doesn't give every main event 5 stars
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Feb 7, 2017 22:57
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ChrisBTY posted:
The real question: Can they unite in time to turn back the Burning Legion?
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Feb 7, 2017 23:07
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dont even fink about it posted:The real question: Can they unite in time to turn back the Burning Legion? No, but they can eventually collapse into 3 Kingdoms. Perdido posted:Which one is for benevolence? Stampede of course. In this scenario Bret's disgust with the WWE comes from A: Spending the peak of his career playing second fiddle to Jeff Jarrett and whatever other pet projects Jerry Jarrett happened to be nursing. This doesn't directly involve Vince but Bret can be a little vindictive. And more importantly B: Shawn Micheals. He had to put up his bullshit in WWE, he had to put up with even more of his bullshit in WCW. And of course once Vince gets back in the game Shawn is going to be one of the first people he contacts. ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 09:27
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I guess I could see Stu Hart throwing down a baby Bret Hart after Archie 'the Stomper' Gouldie rushed back to rescue him.
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Feb 8, 2017 10:55
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Without the WWF, would UFC have had the rise in popularity which started with Shamrock/Ortiz & picked up with The Ulimate Fighter with the Raw lead-in?
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Feb 8, 2017 10:57
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Perdido posted:I guess I could see Stu Hart throwing down a baby Bret Hart after Archie 'the Stomper' Gouldie rushed back to rescue him. But really if any wrestling promoter is Liu Shan it's Dixie Carter.
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Feb 8, 2017 11:44
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dsriggs posted:Without the WWF, would UFC have had the rise in popularity which started with Shamrock/Ortiz & picked up with The Ulimate Fighter with the Raw lead-in? If it did, it certainly wouldn't have been in the same manner or half as quick I bet. Meltzer has said numerous times that WWE had to give their approval for The Ultimate Fighter to air after RAW due to their contract/relationship with Spike at the time. I'm not sure if Vince likes the decision he made there in retrospect.
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Feb 8, 2017 14:57
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The UFC's popularity would be truncated until the rules underwent the revisions needed to be sanctioned by Athletic Commissions. When precisely did that happen IRL? I don't think it was until past 2000 at any rate.
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Feb 9, 2017 01:38
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ChrisBTY posted:The UFC's popularity would be truncated until the rules underwent the revisions needed to be sanctioned by Athletic Commissions. The rules were never really the problem. The people like McCain who tried to get the sport banned had no idea what the rules were or how dangerous the sport was. The rules were very close to how they existed today by 97ish, it took better connected owners before they could really get traction with the states. The rule changes between the Unified Rules and what existed prior were pretty minor.
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Feb 9, 2017 01:45
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Alright then... UFC wouldn't gain traction in the states until it was owned by people with the connections to get sanctioned through the US. The collapse of American professional wrestling probably wouldn't change the timeline.
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Feb 9, 2017 04:31
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright then... If the WWF collapses in 1997 it might be easier for cable companies to allow UFC back on after starting to pull the plug in 96. They'd need to make up for that lost revenue and bringing UFC back after they'd made the rule changes they did from 95-97 would let them save face. Is it likely? Probably not and it might not make a difference (UFC getting back their cable PPV providers didn't make a difference until TUF changed the game) but a major upheaval in the industry could lead to other changes.
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Feb 9, 2017 06:04
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It's important to not discount how the attitude era really got people used to buying PPVs as well. Most people I know were introduced to the entire concept of buying a PPV with pro wrestling.
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Feb 9, 2017 09:25
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quote:Ferrara came out with the same black shirt Ross often wears, his cowboy hat, talked about his barbecue sauce while the poor Mexicans were placed in an utterly racist (pinata on a pole match, made even sillier because the pinata fell from the pole with all the money and nobody could touch it and the wrestlers had to ignore it and keep going for their five minutes until Dr. Death would destroy them all--for real it should be noted, as three of them ended up in the hospital after the match, but today, that's just fun and games as well--Dandy with a possible broken collarbone, which is a pretty serious injury for a wrestler, Juventud Guerrera with a possible AC joint separation, which is one of those nagging injuries that is no fun whatsoever, and Psicosis re-injuring his bad ankle). quote:If anyone was happier to be there than Williams, it was Tony Schiavone. According to those who know him, claim he hates Ross more than any human being on Earth, dating back to the TBS decision ten years ago to go from co-lead announcers on WCW Saturday Night (which at the time was the company's flagship wrestling show), to a singular announcer, leading to Schiavone being taken off the show. Schiavone has always blamed the demotion on Ross' backstage manipulations, making the blow more unfair in his mind, even though Ross was generally considered by far the better wrestling announcer of the two. Since that point, the two have had histories of jumping back and forth between promotions due to demotions under the other. In fact, Schiavone worked heavily with Ferrara on scripting the parody and setting up spots. quote:Finally Sid NC Nash in 7:45. Think of the idea of booking these two for eight minutes and Kidman and Hart for four minutes? It was a no DQ match. Fans were into it but the only moves sold were low blows. After about two minutes, the fans were so into these two that the only crowd reactions were chants for Goldberg. Hall interfered for several minutes but it was no DQ. Goldberg then made the save and speared Hall & Nash. Now that was a DQ. Hall & Nash left. Sid attacked Goldberg. Goldberg powerslammed Sid, who popped right up, gave him a low blow and was beating on him until Hart saved Goldberg and the show went off the air
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Feb 9, 2017 20:36
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See I said Tony was loving it!
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Feb 9, 2017 20:38
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I was watching nitro last night. Kevin Sullivan, the faces of fear and Hugh Morrus: a group of sort of crazies/possibly supernatural. Fine. What the gently caress was Konnan doing with them? He's a Mexican gangster homeboy or something. Also Jim powers is juiced as gently caress.
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Feb 9, 2017 21:13
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MassRafTer posted:See I said Tony was loving it!  He really is the pettiest man in wrestling, holy poo poo
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Feb 9, 2017 21:51
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Von Linus posted:I was watching nitro last night. Kevin Sullivan, the faces of fear and Hugh Morrus: a group of sort of crazies/possibly supernatural. Fine. I assume the backstage reason was because Sullivan was the guy who brought people in from ECW so he wanted Konnan in his group. Explaining it beyond that I have no idea.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:26
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