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Tie-breaker for serial you'd most like to find an episode from This poll is closed. |
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| The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve |
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33 | 44.59% |
| The Highlanders |
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41 | 55.41% |
| Total: | 74 votes | ||
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The idea that Harness was attempting to noncritically perpetuate anti-immigrant hate speech or anti-choice propaganda is ridiculous. That he stumbled MASSIVELY in an attempt to wrestle with those issues is unquestionable.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:35
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Doc Who is awesome, I look forward to it returning! Tough to top Clara as a companion though, she was razor sharp and fun. What will the Doctor do this year, like compared to his Rufus guitar n shades thing? I love these phases he goes through.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:37
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I still want Idris or Paterson Joseph, but I've wanted that for like the last 2 regenerations so I'm resigned that it won't happen. 
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Feb 3, 2017 05:46
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DoctorWhat posted:The idea that Harness was attempting to noncritically perpetuate anti-immigrant hate speech or anti-choice propaganda is ridiculous. I'd agree with that. But you gotta admit it takes real talent to stumble that goddamn far.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:48
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DoctorWhat posted:The idea that Harness was attempting to noncritically perpetuate anti-immigrant hate speech or anti-choice propaganda is ridiculous. See it's super hard to defend either point because both of them have such an awful, ugly mess of a message that I know he was trying to say something, I'm just not sure what it was. I'm not sure he knows either
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Feb 3, 2017 05:50
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All the talk of women and/or "PsOC" in the role -- and many great suggestions among them -- but It got me wondering why we've never seen an Irish Doctor. For that matter, have they ever said why Tennant played him with an English accent? Not that I minded because it made his audio book readings awesome. (The Doctor was separete voice from the narrator.) But McCoy and Capeldi got to be Scottish.
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Feb 3, 2017 07:49
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King Plum the Nth posted:All the talk of women and/or "PsOC" in the role -- and many great suggestions among them -- but It got me wondering why we've never seen an Irish Doctor. It was Tennant's decision.
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Feb 3, 2017 08:42
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howe_sam posted:He's the lead in the Dark Tower adaptation coming out this year, so that's one at least. his last lead before than, Bastille Day, was a bit hosed by real life events. there was Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom before that though
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Feb 3, 2017 08:49
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Ten's accent was something to do with how much Rose had meant to Nine wasn't it?
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Feb 3, 2017 10:09
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Cerv posted:his last lead before than, Bastille Day, was a bit hosed by real life events. Not to mention it wasn't a very good film 
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Feb 3, 2017 10:13
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King Plum the Nth posted:All the talk of women and/or "PsOC" in the role -- and many great suggestions among them -- but It got me wondering why we've never seen an Irish Doctor. Aiden Turner is Irish.  (I should say I'm not trying to advocate Turner as the Doctor - as I've said, Ruth Wilson would be my choice - I'm just going on a magazine article I saw a while ago around the time Poldark started where he said he'd be interested and posed in a Doctor-like costume.)
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Feb 3, 2017 12:45
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Look, we need a well-trained older British actor with experience in fantasy and sci-fi. Clearly the next Doctor should be Patrick Stewart.
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Feb 3, 2017 13:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'd agree with that. But you gotta admit it takes real talent to stumble that goddamn far. I recall some interview with Harness saying that he doesn't think of himself as a political writer. Which makes the Zygon story make a lot more sense. It's just taking the aesthetics of ISIS and doesn't expect you to tie them to real actual ISIS, when the nature of the story encourages just that. If you want to read it as an actual allegory for immigration and/or ISIS, for example, the message of the episodes is completely loving insane: the way to defeat ISIS, who have a totally valid point that they're not expressing in the most measured way, is to bring their leaders into the fold and involve them in top-level decision making. You have to take the flavoring as just that.
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Feb 3, 2017 14:09
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If you don't want to be considered a political writer maybe don't write political stories.
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Feb 3, 2017 14:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Look, we need a well-trained older British actor with experience in fantasy and sci-fi. Apparently that was his lifelong dream at one point. He'd probably do it for free.
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Feb 3, 2017 14:46
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King Plum the Nth posted:All the talk of women and/or "PsOC" in the role -- and many great suggestions among them -- but It got me wondering why we've never seen an Irish Doctor. Actually, had a rethink on this and will reiterate an earlier post - they fudge it by casting Billie Piper but making her use her dubious accent from Penny Dreadful. 
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Feb 3, 2017 14:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Clearly the next Doctor should be Patrick Stewart. No, no; 'Picardo' was the Doctor, not 'Picard'.
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Feb 3, 2017 15:14
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Wheat Loaf posted:Actually, had a rethink on this and will reiterate an earlier post - they fudge it by casting Billie Piper but making her use her dubious accent from Penny Dreadful. I honestly think it's a coin-flip as to whether this would work, actually. Like, if she leaned into it and they wrote the Doctor just oblivious as to why everyone looks confused when she speaks...
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Feb 3, 2017 16:38
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Rochallor posted:I recall some interview with Harness saying that he doesn't think of himself as a political writer. Which makes the Zygon story make a lot more sense. It's just taking the aesthetics of ISIS and doesn't expect you to tie them to real actual ISIS, when the nature of the story encourages just that. To accidently write a bad, political, xenophobic story is much more impressive than just writing a bad story. Good job.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:02
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Decided to listen through the first 3 War Doctor boxes both in anticipation of box 4 and in memoriam of John Hurt....listening to the interview section on the first one is quite literally making me tear up a little bit.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:53
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Fil5000 posted:A double blast. The sort where you think the person in the cubicle has finished, but it's just a brief pause before they continue their death rattle. The sort that leaves your eyes streaming from the next room over. yes, but it will be the best dump. the most memorable dump. future generations will revere this dump for all it meant / :stevenmoffat:
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Feb 3, 2017 21:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Look, we need a well-trained older British actor with experience in fantasy and sci-fi.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:48
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Charles Dance's fate is to one day play the Master. He shouldn't resist it too long, look what happened to Alan Rickman when he too fought against the natural order.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:56
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NarkyBark posted:Charles Dance  Ok, how about this: are we ready for The Valeyard yet? Could the ratings survive a season of that? Cast David Warner as the Doctor. He has some experience here. And Dance, Gomez, and Jacobi (The War Master pre chameleon arch) team up in the first ever multi-Master story, a season long arc that turns convention on its head and casts the Master(s) as the defacto good guy. Like Spike in season 2 of Buffy. If The Doctor succeeds in destroying the universe, and he could, the Master would loose his favorite plaything. Bam.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:03
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Charles Dance needs to stay available to play the Patrician in Discworld shows/specials/movies  .And play The Master.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Look, we need a well-trained older British actor with experience in fantasy and sci-fi. With Ian McKellen as The Master! 
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Feb 4, 2017 06:03
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September's Fifth Doctor audio Time in Office sounds kind of amazing:quote:As writer Eddie Robson explains: "Time In Office has been in the works for four years - script editor Alan Barnes came to me with the idea of teaming the Doctor and Tegan with Leela, on Gallifrey, with the Doctor being forced to take up the role of President he escaped at the end of The Five Doctors. Things shuffled around in the schedule and Alan suggested treating it as four one-episode stories. I loved this approach: I treated it like I was writing a sitcom, a Gallifreyan version of The Thick Of It."
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Feb 4, 2017 10:28
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It's Eddie Robson and it deals with bureaucracy? It's gonna rule.
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Feb 4, 2017 11:47
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The Fifth Doctor and Leela? Tegan and Leela? I can hear the arguing already!
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Feb 4, 2017 13:43
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Jerusalem posted:Charles Dance's fate is to one day play the Master. That sounds good, I like that. Get Charles in there. Now, as for the Doctor, we need someone who can be affable and goofy, but then get really intense. Let's get Bryan Cranston. That'll work. Then we'll have Bryan Cranston vs. Charles Dance in a sci-fi setting where absolutely anything can happen.
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Feb 4, 2017 17:15
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For over a year I waited for some new (televised) Doctor Who. Sure there was plenty of Big Finish to listen to in the meantime, and the briefest/barest teaser for season 10 that introduced us to the new companion, but the year long wait was still hard especially knowing it would be Moffat's last (and now we know also Capaldi's). Then we got The Return of Doctor Mysterio Reception was mixed, no surprise given the notorious inability SA's Doctor Who fans have to agree on anything related to Doctor Who. But for me this episode was a big miss, it fell flat in so many ways and had so many missteps that outweighed anything good it did. Even much of the good stuff it tried was simply aping/repeating something that had already been done better decades before. As a homage it was nice, but all it did was remind me just how good aspects of Richard Donner's first Superman movie really was, as opposed to how good Doctor Who can be. The episode opens with a flashback, a young man - Grant - living in New York dreams of his childhood and his meeting with the Doctor. It is essentially an origin story, telegraphed by the discussions lil' Grant and the Doctor have on how Spider-Man gained his powers (as well as the notion of obvious secret identities and how intelligent people don't see what is right in front of everybody, such as Clark Kent and Superman being the same person). The Doctor has returned to New York to try and fix the massive distortions and fractions that have plagued the place since The Angels Take Manhattan. There's some broad physical comedy, sometimes good and sometimes bad (Matt Smith could pull this stuff off, with Peter Capaldi it feels more forced) that causes a rather straightforward mix-up where the Doctor accidentally gives lil' Grant superpowers.   Largely the most enjoyment I get out of this episode comes from the Doctor, though he does often feel like a secondary character in this the only new episode of the show in 2016. The Doctor almost feels like an interloper, not just in terms of Grant's super-heroics but Lucy's investigations. He's mostly along for the ride, and takes on a largely background role even when making his own independent investigations of Harmony Shoal, one in an endless series of mysterious corporations that are forever appearing in the Doctor Who Earth and collapsing just as quickly when the Doctor exposes their schemes for world domination. It's symptomatic of the larger problems with the episode - the Doctor flutters too much between comedic foil, sad but inspiring lonely hero, (absent) mentor to Grant and avenging guardian of the planet. Compounding this is the return of Nardole from the previous Christmas Special, his head reattached to his body (poor Dorium Maldovar) and acting as a kind of valet/quasi-companion. The casting of Matt Lucas is interesting because he's largely a comedy figure and there is plenty of comedy (good and bad) from him, but also moments where he displays a competence and awareness that actually lends him some gravitas. The lack of a season is strongly felt here, because this Nardole is very different from the one we saw in his first appearance but we've seen none of the character growth that he's supposedly undergone between then and now. He can fly the TARDIS, he knows the Doctor and River's history, he calls him out when he needs grounding... none of these things would be expected from the pleasant but extremely stupid character from The Husbands of River Song and none of that growth feels earned.   The baddies of the episode are a corporation called Harmony Shoal, which is of course the aliens who featured in the previous Christmas Special - The Shoal of the Winter Harmony. Our initial exposure to them comes through their CEO Mr Brock, who is painted as an evil mastermind but ends up being just another pawn. Questioned by reporter Lucy Fletcher, Brock is also waylaid by top researcher Dr Sim who takes him into a research vault the purpose of which even Brock (the owner of the company?) doesn't have the clearance for. Brains inside jars sit in the vaults, just waiting for the proper "vehicle" to come along for them to commandeer. The notion is creepy but also kinda feels like it comes outta nowhere, because we know so little about The Shoal Moffat is free to basically add any kind of feature he wants to them, but that arguably diluted the Weeping Angels and the same risk is carried here. The Doctor later refers to them as a nervous system that takes over the body, so are the "brains" their natural state and then they permeate the entire body afterwards? Wasn't it enough that they were just the creepy guys with heads that split open? Especially since there was a year to get this episode written couldn't they have come up with a new villain/monster? Or explained the basic concept just a little better? Brock is left to be murdered in the vault and replaced by The Shoal (the Doctor and Lucy just kinda wander away, apparently Brock being vaguely a jerk is enough to warrant not being fazed by his fate at all) while Sim discovers the intruders. The Shoal then proceed to be largely inept and useless despite the scale of their plot (which also makes no sense - they destroy New York but their building will survive, so all the world's leaders will go to their buildings instead of their own doomsday bunkers?) outside of a couple moments where via plot-armor they get to menace/threaten people who are well beyond their capability to deal with. The point is almost comedic at the very end of the episode where Brock pulls a gun on the Doctor who just casually disarms him and explains he's called UNIT and they've been utterly defeated. That makes the reveal that Sim has escaped in a UNIT soldier's body fall flat, because apart from his ability to jump between bodies he hardly comes across as a particularly dangerous threat. You could make the argument (I don't really agree with it) that the Doctor largely (and dangerously) strung Harmony Shoal along to help Grant achieve happiness, because otherwise the Doctor's plan of,"I'll just accelerate THEIR plan because they didn't want to do it till later!" just feels really stupid, reckless and shortsighted. Still, we did get this moment out of it:  The episode is inspired by/a homage to comic books/comic book films, most particularly the original Richard Donner Superman. There was a lot of space to explore this/do some interesting things but everything largely feels patchwork. There is no real cohesiveness to the references/homages beyond just being references/homages - yes Lucy's inability to see the obvious Ghost/Grant identity is telegraphed by the earlier Clark Kent/Superman discussion, and plays off the Clark/Lois relationship in the first movie. But that's about all it does, and feels like a weak echo of something done much better decades earlier. Harmony Shoal's building is an obvious reference to the Daily Planet building, the names Siegel and Shuster pop up, and of course Lucy Fletcher's married name gives her the same LL initialing of the likes of Lois Lane and Lana Lang. The rooftop interview between Ghost/Lucy is obviously meant as a parallel to the Superman/Lois interview from the film.... but the film already did that and did it waaaay better. The reference here doesn't do anything particularly different or new, doesn't add any new twist or deviation, it almost feels like ticking off a list of things that happened in the movie. During one scene a phone call is made that makes heavy use of comic book paneling in a neat little nod to the comic-book format. But it is the only place it appears in the episode, marking one of the few instances of really playing around with the medium-crossing of comic books/television/film (one of the few things Ang Lee's Hulk film did a really good job at). It stands out as an aberration in the episode, bringing attention to itself because it made me wonder just what could have been if they'd been a bit more creative with the editing. The other issue is that a superhero usually works in a comic book but it's far harder to make it work in television/film without making some pretty drastic design choices. The Ghost unfortunately looks like a kid in a rather cheap costume, he isn't physically imposing in the slightest. Christopher Reeve changed his posture to make his Clark Kent look nervous, weak and pathetic, while his Superman was a charming, confident brick wall of muscle - Grant's attempts to be gravel-voiced and heroic feel like a poor cos-player. That might have been the point, but everybody else in the episode plays it off as the Ghost being imposing/inspiring - the only point where I got that sense comes, again perhaps deliberately, when he isn't wearing the costume.   But the thing that really bugs me about this episode, that largely detracts from anything good in it, is the quite frankly creepy relationship between Grant and Lucy. They've known each other for 20+ years, since they were kids... but Grant calls her "Mrs Lombard" and his double life as superhero AND nanny to Lucy's child actually feels kind of stalker-ish. The x-ray vision joke didn't really need to be in there, though Lil Grant at least is humiliated by this unknown invasion of privacy and does his best to avoid it - yet adult Grant is living in her house and flying around keeping his eye on her still acting like the lovestuck teenager. Meanwhile, Lucy's sudden realization of how much she loves Grant comes out of nowhere during her interview with the Ghost and it doesn't feel earned, although the comedy of slipping his mask off and then back on is nicely paced. There is actually a kind of vibe of Grant trying to take advantage of the situation to get into a relationship with her, when he escapes Brock's trap there was absolutely nothing stopping him taking out the thugs and Brock and saving Lucy.... except she had just told him how she liked Grant so he makes a point of escaping, changing back into Grant and then running up onto the roof so "Grant" can save the day this time. Much like most romantic comedies actually involve weird stalking and obsessive behavior, Grant's attempts to be the nice guy just make him seem like a creep. Lucy herself is written schizophrenically, she goes from tough, no-nonsense and pro-active investigative reporter to unprofessionally pining over Grant in the middle of the biggest interview of her career (an interview largely undermined by the Ghost having already done a television interview the night before). She becomes the damsel in distress to provide the personal incentive for Grant to save the day, losing most of what made her interesting in the first half of the episode as she is reduced to just the love interest. Her strongest scene comes in the rather funny but competent and probing "interrogation" of the Doctor making use of a child's toy as an incentive to extract information from him. She is professional, single-minded and focused there and surely that's the character that Grant was in love with, not the lady who suddenly throws off her professional interest to pine over her old school friend. What is she? The "prize" for Grant or an actual person in her own right? Sadly I think the episode largely ends up coming down on the former rather than the latter.   In the end, The Return of Doctor Mysterio is an uneven story whose faults are exacerbated by being the first new televised thing in a year for Doctor Who. It's an attempt at a breezy, fun romp which is very fitting for a Christmas Special. I can usually forgive Xmas Specials a lot because they're their own very particular thing, but this year I just couldn't look past the problems. The Christmasy theme is very quickly abandoned in any sense, and it feels like the story can't quite decide what it's trying to do/be - a homage? A satire? The broad comedy sits alongside the serious moments in a manner that doesn't mix, and it repeats one of the great sins of the RTD era where a massive world-shaking change to the modern world is just dropped into our laps without acknowledgment. Doctor Who's version of the modern world now has it as established fact that superheroes actually exist, just like RTD's had aliens as just a thing everybody knew about, while still trying to maintain the idea that Doctor Who's modern London (or New York in this case) was exactly the same as our own. Plus Grant has retired... or maybe not.... plus the time distortions in New York remain? Still, the episode does end strongly with the Doctor's final goodbye to Grant and Lucy (ignoring Nardole's rather extraneous explanation about River Song) and the final shot seems to indicate the Doctor has moved on and season 10 should (and hopefully will) be it's own thing. This episode itself? It's not very good, but it's over now, and season 10 is finally on its way. The Doctor posted:Things end. That's all. Everything ends, and it's always sad. But everything begins again too, and that's always happy. Be happy. I'll look after everything else. 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 08:22
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Great as always, J-Ru!
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Feb 5, 2017 08:45
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I have just been rewatching 'Ripper Street' while ill and although there are far more progressive choices to be made, I would be intrigued by seeing a Jerome Flynn Doctor. That's my story.
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Feb 5, 2017 16:04
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Jerome Flynn would be an interesting Doctor. I'm not sure how he'd play it, though. I couldn't see him doing the sort of madcap cartoony sort of thing Tennant or Smith did. I imagine he'd play more of a rough-around-the-edges character if he was the Doctor. They've never cast a bad actor as the Doctor. Who could they cast - realistically, leaving aside fantasy-casting and going on actors who are plausible prospects at the moment - who would be a "bad" choice?
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Feb 5, 2017 16:18
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Jerusalem posted:Brock is left to be murdered in the vault and replaced by The Shoal (the Doctor and Lucy just kinda wander away, apparently Brock being vaguely a jerk is enough to warrant not being fazed by his fate at all) I keep coming back to this point because it bothers me so much about this episode. They can clearly hear what's going on, and just let a men get murdered. 
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Feb 5, 2017 16:22
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Wheat Loaf posted:They've never cast a bad actor as the Doctor. Who could they cast - realistically, leaving aside fantasy-casting and going on actors who are plausible prospects at the moment - who would be a "bad" choice? Michael rapaport
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Feb 5, 2017 18:48
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Wheat Loaf posted:Jerome Flynn would be an interesting Doctor. I'm not sure how he'd play it, though. I couldn't see him doing the sort of madcap cartoony sort of thing Tennant or Smith did. I imagine he'd play more of a rough-around-the-edges character if he was the Doctor. Yeah the rough-around-the-edges thing is what I'd enjoy. It would be quite a change from what we've seen in the revival (maybe ever?) and could be fun.
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Feb 5, 2017 20:05
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Wheat Loaf posted:Jerome Flynn would be an interesting Doctor. I'm not sure how he'd play it, though. I couldn't see him doing the sort of madcap cartoony sort of thing Tennant or Smith did. I imagine he'd play more of a rough-around-the-edges character if he was the Doctor. I used to be of the school that Alan Davies would be good but I've done a complete 180 on that notion. Just revisited the early seasons of Jonathan Creek and while I still enjoy him and the show I just don't understand how I could have thought he'd be good as the Doctor. Not a strong enough actor, maybe? I'd be curious to hear what others think but given ( in my mind) that there are basically two schools of actors -- ones who more or less play themselves and ones who more completely assume other personas -- I feel like, if all the Doctors have anything in common, it's that they're of the latter type. Davies is the former, I think. That and just the idea of any American rubs me the wrong way but I'm not sure if that's just mindless nationalism or not. Like Fil5000 said earlier, I wasn't keen on Smith when he was anounced because he's younger than me. And i didn't like the looks of McGann in the first publicity still I saw. But they're both great, obviously. So I've learned to have faith. For that matter I liked Capeldi going in but his doctor didn't quite catch with me really until just now that I'm catching up with series 9. Now I'm sorry he's leaving.
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Feb 5, 2017 21:14
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Matt Berry
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Feb 5, 2017 21:14
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evenworse username posted:Yeah the rough-around-the-edges thing is what I'd enjoy. It would be quite a change from what we've seen in the revival (maybe ever?) and could be fun. I think Ecclestone certainly had some of those qualities.
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Feb 5, 2017 21:27
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