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Patch certification is also an expensive headache on consoles. I'd guess a console port would require a whole Kickstarter/Publisher of its own, not a mere stretch goal.
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Feb 7, 2017 03:59
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Isn't Torment being self-published on PC and they got an external publisher (Techland I think?) for console?
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Feb 7, 2017 04:02
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How would you even control a game like PoE on a console? Dragon Age is rough even with a bunch of console concessions and the original PoE literally had no party AI so pausing and doing everything with a controller sounds like the most tedious thing imagineable.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:03
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A console port for PoE2 would be ambitious-to-risky. I think it would make sense if more consoles came with KB/M.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:08
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I really never had an issue with Dragon Age, myself. Ah well, maybe the ol' rig has one more game left in her. As someone that played Neverwinter Nights for years the multiclassing aspect is really irresistible..
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Feb 7, 2017 04:11
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2house2fly posted:Isn't Torment being self-published on PC and they got an external publisher (Techland I think?) for console? If it's Techland than I am extremely apprehensive about that cause they suck
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Feb 7, 2017 04:12
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Hey rope_kid, I was wondering if we can have a stretch goal to have all the VO done in your conlangs so no one can complain about how such and such accent isn't authentic to this or that character.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:20
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Hey rope kid, I was wondering if we can have a stretch goal to have Matt Mercer say, "It's about midday," at some point during a conversation. Thanks in advance for considering my idea.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:27
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But make him say it in Aedyran.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:38
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Zore posted:How would you even control a game like PoE on a console? Dragon Age is rough even with a bunch of console concessions and the original PoE literally had no party AI so pausing and doing everything with a controller sounds like the most tedious thing imagineable. B button gets into the ability bar and you select with the dpad the ability you want to use and hit A to use it, cycle through characters with the shoulder buttons, right trigger pauses, left trigger toggles sneak y goes into menu x goes into character screen, start for menu options. I suppose you could put rest in the menu options, it's a bit inelegant though, but it'd be a good backup option if you have it on R3 same with a stronghold on L3.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:59
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No consoles! NO CONSOLES! Remember Elder Scrolls! Remember how everyone still loves Morrowind! Remember the trash Oblivion and Skyrim became, mostly because they changed to address the console market! Console fags have their final fantasy and Mario and whatever else stupid poo poo. RPGs are for PC gamers, just like RTS and true FPS are! gently caress the revolution of dumb!
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Feb 7, 2017 05:23
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Tony Montana posted:No consoles! NO CONSOLES! Morrowind was on the Xbox my dude. Also you've based your identity on brand consumption and that is hella sad.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:32
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I would also recommend no consoles simply because Torment Tides of Numanuma hosed itself over to include them and it lost a bunch of content as a result.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:37
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and it was poo poo. No, it's nothing as complicated as you would like. It's simple. Console = dumb games. PC = not dumb games. RTS. What is RTS? Its a cool rear end genre based in hardcore multi and strategy. It doesn't exist at all on consoles, because the large sweeping commands and selecting many units at once doesn't translate to a controller. I have the Xbox Elite controller, I bought it a few days ago. For playing GTA5 it's great, for playing the new Tomb raider it's great. They are both pretty dumb loving games, dumb as in you need to be constantly stoned or something otherwise it's loving boring. I don't really care you and others might get all 'omg console wars! we've been over this already!' No, we havent. Right here in this thread about Pillars. Don't gently caress up Pillars by chasing that sweet console market share and give us hosed UIs and exclamation points over quest givers and all that other poo poo. Don't build combat mechanics around the layout of the xbox controller. I hope the developer understand their game wouldn't sell well to the console crowd anyway and almost their entire success is due to PC gamers that remember how RPGs used to be.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:40
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Tony Montana posted:No consoles! NO CONSOLES! Tony Montana posted:and it was poo poo. Source your quotes.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:42
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Console Pillars is a bad idea because it's probably fiscally impractical given the scale of the project. And also because the control scheme is ill suited to this kind of gameplay. Not because of idiotic console wars ideas of certain kinds of hardware having intrinsic moral worth. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 05:42
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poo poo, Morrowind was released at the same time on xbox as it was on PC. Well ok then, but you couldn't tell it by looking at Morrowind! You certainly could tell it by the time Oblivion came. I think that was the transition from 'oh we'll release some console port coz lol consoles' to 'THE GAME NEEDS TO BE DESIGNED AROUND CONSOLES BECAUSE ITS A BILLION DOLLAR MARKET' edit: also, if you don't think the difference between something that costs a few hundred dollars once and you never do another thing to it, and playing games means basically putting in the cartridge.. to something that costs thousands, is often custom designed by yourself, requires maintenance and intense fiddling is possible resulting in graphics and processing power order of magnitudes greater than any console... FUNDAMENTALLY attracts a different demographic then you are not very bright Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 05:43
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have you had this gimmick for your entire 12 years on this site
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Feb 7, 2017 05:46
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Tony Montana posted:poo poo, Morrowind was released at the same time on xbox as it was on PC. Well ok then, but you couldn't tell it by looking at Morrowind! You certainly could tell it by the time Oblivion came. I think that was the transition from 'oh we'll release some console port coz lol consoles' to 'THE GAME NEEDS TO BE DESIGNED AROUND CONSOLES BECAUSE ITS A BILLION DOLLAR MARKET' It wasn't, you are on crazy person drugs and not fun drugs, find better drugs. Morrowind itself was already an attempt to make something more mainstream than Daggerfall. You basic bitches riding it's jock don't even remember what real complexity looked like.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:47
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Hard Truth: Morrowind was not nearly as good a game as people remember it being. It was more groundbreaking than it was good -- it did a lot of new things really well and had great worldbuilding and writing, but the core game wasn't all that well designed as a game. also, if you took away "poo poo brown" from Morrowind's color palette the entire game world would just be a transparent wireframe
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Feb 7, 2017 05:51
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Mulva posted:It wasn't, you are on crazy person drugs and not fun drugs, find better drugs. Morrowind itself was already an attempt to make something more mainstream than Daggerfall. You basic bitches riding it's jock don't even remember what real complexity looked like. Wikipedia says they were both released middle of 2002. Are you smarter than Wikipedia? You should go update that page then. What was real complexity? Tell me your super hardcore oldschool RPG. Most of the people here will know Baulders Gate and Heroes of Might and Magic. Planescape:Torment gets a lot of love and one of the primary influence for Pillars. What is your jam?
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Feb 7, 2017 05:54
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Tony Montana posted:What was real complexity? Tell me your super hardcore oldschool RPG Pool of Radiance and Zork come at me bro (I'm so old)
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Feb 7, 2017 05:55
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I changed my mind, I'm pro-console now
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Feb 7, 2017 05:55
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I've only played Morrowind on an xbox I didn't think it was very good
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Feb 7, 2017 05:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Hard Truth: Morrowind was not nearly as good a game as people remember it being. It was more groundbreaking than it was good -- it did a lot of new things really well and had great worldbuilding and writing, but the core game wasn't all that well designed as a game. Yeah, for me and many at the time Morrowind was a FPS RPG. First Person RPG, holy poo poo. RPGs before were always isometric (NWN, etc) because of processing power, it was hard enough to render Doom's 2D let alone all the systems and variables in RPG systems. So Morrowind was the first full RPG with characters and story that you could actually run around in in 3D. That's what was groundbreaking and as a result many people experienced a ton of D&D and RPG tropes for the first time because the game was that good. I think that's why it's so welded to some people's ideas of what an RPG should be. My point was just it was a PC game, in that it was pretty loving complex (I made a flight ring that works perpetually and flew around like superman) and the menus and dialogue boxes were obviously designed around sitting at a desktop. By the time Oblivion came we'd gone full console retard so the UI was almost unusable and totally infuriating and there were a ton of other things too. Don't let this happen to Pillars!
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Feb 7, 2017 05:59
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Tony Montana posted:Wikipedia says they were both released middle of 2002. Are you smarter than Wikipedia? You should go update that page then. You've misread what they're saying. They're saying that Morrowind, as a whole, was a "dumbing down" of prior incarnations of Elder Scrolls. Ostensibly because it was going to be on both consoles and PC. On a more realtalk note: It's possibly time to grow up and acknowledge that the faults of Oblivion and Skyrim have nothing to do with their presence or lackthereof on consoles, and a lot to do with personnel turnover changing the tone of the series. As well as poorly designed level scaling systems, among other things.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:00
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Kooky hyperbole, yes, but he has a point. Making a game for console requires UI design which almost never turns out well for those of us who prefer mouse and keyboard. Not to say it's impossible to design something that works well with both controller and KB/M, but it isn't done often.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:00
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Litany Unheard posted:I've only played Morrowind on an xbox When? Are you the guy that sees the title credits for Citizen Kane and bemoans loudly 'it's in black and white?!'
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Feb 7, 2017 06:00
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Holy poo poo this guy is epic.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:03
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Airfoil posted:Kooky hyperbole, yes, but he has a point. Making a game for console requires UI design which almost never turns out well for those of us who prefer mouse and keyboard. Not to say it's impossible to design something that works well with both controller and KB/M, but it isn't done often. Depends on the genre, really. Oblivion and Morrowind do not really have meaningfully different UIs, for example. They made a conscious decision to present the game how they did, they were not forced to by technical limitations. Similarly, neither For Honor nor Dark Souls require any unique considerations translating to and from consoles and PC, at least not where UI is concerned. RTS' and isometric RPGs are another matter altogether. Elder Scrolls was a really dumb example for him to pick when he could have just cited more level headed concerns like "the Priest spell list alone is way too many goddamn buttons to smoothly access via controller". The Priest spell list is way too many goddamn buttons period 
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Feb 7, 2017 06:04
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Captain Oblivious posted:You've misread what they're saying. They're saying that Morrowind, as a whole, was a "dumbing down" of prior incarnations of Elder Scrolls. Ostensibly because it was going to be on both consoles and PC. No, not at all. You're missing my point. Your second paragraph is the problem. If you don't think design decisions driven by console adoption made those games worse (such as dropping the detailed UIs perfect for displaying inventories, etc) then we do not agree on video games. Which is ok lol. I know Morrowind was 'dumbed down' but I'm just trying to give an example of a modern RPG that didn't hold the console version as the almighty gospel. If the PC and console versions were developed in tandem then hats off to making the PC version really PC. Later versions of Elder Scrolls lacked exactly this (until we just put it all right again with mods, but that's hard work and took a while!)
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Feb 7, 2017 06:06
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Tony Montana posted:No, not at all. You're missing my point. Your second paragraph is the problem. If you don't think design decisions driven by console adoption made those games worse (such as dropping the detailed UIs perfect for displaying inventories, etc) then we do not agree on video games. Which is ok lol. Viewing things in binary is your problem. Does translating a game to consoles drive design decisions? Yes, sometimes. There is no hard and fast answer. It depends entirely on what the game is and/or aspires to be. It's also worth noting that complexity has no intrinsic value, while we're at it.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:07
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Iirc the Dragon Age games have a PC-specific UI
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Feb 7, 2017 06:08
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Captain Oblivious posted:RTS' and isometric RPGs are another matter altogether. Elder Scrolls was a really dumb example for him to pick when he could have just cited more level headed concerns like "the Priest spell list alone is way too many goddamn buttons to smoothly access via controller". I dunno about that. The Skyrim inventory is a 5-star example of how not to design for PC.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:13
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Airfoil posted:I dunno about that. The Skyrim inventory is a 5-star example of how not to design for PC. When I think about what was disappointing about playing Skyrim on PC, the inventory doesn't even really register. Things like a duct taped together main story, wildly uneven sidequest quality, and boring exploration do.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:16
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Captain Oblivious posted:Viewing things in binary is your problem. Does translating a game to consoles drive design decisions? Yes, sometimes. There is no hard and fast answer. It depends entirely on what the game is and/or aspires to be. No, I don't think it's as mysterious as all that. You can pull the 'well different situations means different things so generalizing is always bad' but the only people that use that are people that don't have enough life experience to know you can and should draw conclusions. The complexity comment is entirely your opinion. It does have intrinsic value. It's not the only marker of a good game, in isolation perhaps not enough on its own.. but complexity does have intrinsic value. Observe the absence of it and tell me otherwise. Complexity just means work, it means content. Maybe it's bad and dumb, but it's there. The alternative is nothing is there, so you're done and you're bored. 2house2fly posted:Iirc the Dragon Age games have a PC-specific UI That's good. In Skyrim and Oblivion some poor PC dude had to write SkyUI or whatever it was so we can actually play the game. Airfoil posted:I dunno about that. The Skyrim inventory is a 5-star example of how not to design for PC. It's not like this is controversial
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Feb 7, 2017 06:18
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Airfoil posted:Kooky hyperbole, yes, but he has a point. Making a game for console requires UI design which almost never turns out well for those of us who prefer mouse and keyboard. Not to say it's impossible to design something that works well with both controller and KB/M, but it isn't done often. If you want a game that was ruined by a console port look at Deus Ex: Invisible War. Not so much the UI (though that was part of it) as the memory limitations meant replacing DX 1's massive open zones with tiny, cramped zones that drastically limited gameplay.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:23
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Captain Oblivious posted:When I think about what was disappointing about playing Skyrim on PC, the inventory doesn't even really register. I'm an Obsidian fan who's never finished Fallout:NV because I hate just about everything about Bethesda's engine and combat system, so... Interface is a pretty big thing to me.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:24
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2house2fly posted:Iirc the Dragon Age games have a PC-specific UI It wasn't the UI that broke DA II: it was the encounter design. Specifically, the first game had a really tactical and complex encounter system that led to deep combat, whereas the second one decided that was all too complicated for console gamers and replaced it with encounters literally designed for button mashing. In that case it wasn't so much "consoles" themselves as it was developer's preconcieved and erroneous notions of what the gaming and console-playing public wanted. DA 1 sold great, they should have stuck with what they had, but they hosed it up.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:25
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Tony Montana posted:No, I don't think it's as mysterious as all that. You can pull the 'well different situations means different things so generalizing is always bad' but the only people that use that are people that don't have enough life experience to know you can and should draw conclusions. I'm not really sure how you get from "some games require no special considerations when translated from console to pc or vice versa" to "you should not draw conclusions about things". This whole post reads like an emotional outburst, not a thought. As for complexity, you're gonna have to show your work there. If complexity is intrinsically valuable, would you then say that it is always desireable to have more spells even if many have no tactical worth? Because that's something PoE2 aims to change, is to slim down the spell list by cutting the chaff. That is on its face less complexity. But it does not necessarily make for a worse game.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:27
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