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Is the time until must-launch randomized? I swear I've been only getting operations with slightly over a day recently  Although I did have a prison break mission that I decided to send my best Shinobi/Resident Axe Murderer alone on. just narrowly hit 100% infiltration in the day I had. Dude managed to stealth his way into the prison and the group mad dashed for the evac zone. He also got to whip an axe at a sectoid before leaving. It didn't kill them but at least there's one sectoid out there who knows the score.EDIT: Just because I managed to find the screenshot I took of the loading screen before the mission and I love it: 
Danaru fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 01:39
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Danaru posted:Is the time until must-launch randomized? I swear I've been only getting operations with slightly over a day recently Yes, it's randomized. Put more people on intel to boost the odds of getting reasonable timers. Essentially the way it works is the mission spawns at some point, with a fixed (long) amount of time. Then as time passes, your recruits working the intel job have a random chance to discover it. The more people you have on intel, the more likely it is that you'll discover it early, while there's still lots of time left.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:32
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Many missions also have thresholds, you must generate X amount of intel before you can even start rolling the dice on detection. For reference, a level 1 rebel makes 5 intel (an internal number, not the intel currency) a day. The Avenger makes 20 intel a day. Detecting the first mission in the Liberation chain takes 110 intel before you even get to roll dice. So 6 rebels on intel + Avenger (+50 intel income/day) will take two days *after* the mission spawns before you have any chance at all of finding Liberation 1, which has a 9-10 day duration. None of this is explained anywhere. Once you pass the threshold you roll dice every once in awhile (I think 6 hours) to see if you detect a mission. The idea is that if you throw *enough* dice over a long enough period you'll hit statistically average outcomes, just like taking shots in the tactical game except with significantly fewer tools to swing the odds in your favor and little to no feedback to help guide your strategy. Also none of this is explained anywhere. Have a neat chart someone linked earlier: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kcM-49VwQdkqsyR2RtBfzQJrDmtaw46sWdFgfrmorLw/edit#gid=1095168118 How are you supposed to work this out from the information given in game without referring to internet think tanks and cheat sheets? (or browsing the config files). Good question.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:49
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You're not. Learning too much about the game by dissecting its files and poo poo is basically cheating.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:02
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Apoplexy posted:You're not. Learning too much about the game by dissecting its files and poo poo is basically cheating. But in a game largely based around strategy and planning (in theory), how are you supposed to play well if the rules are deliberately obfuscated? This isn't some minor mechanic we're talking about- it's the manner by which the game presents you with opportunities to move forward, and without knowing any of that, I would've assumed it was completely and utterly random, not allowing me to make informed decisions about where and when to put rebels on intel.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:04
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Break a leg!
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A lot of poo poo isn't documented because the mod is still in development, it's not nearly a finished product. For one thing, making an in-game documentation for everything takes time, and they're spending time on other things. For another, since every goddamn thing is subject to change, it's hard to justify spending a lot of time documenting a mechanic that might just get ripped out of the game entirely in a few months. Bit by bit, the game mechanics ARE getting documented and made player-facing, like infiltration times affecting evac time. For everything else, at this stage, the game's documentation is the wiki, the forum, and reddit.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:34
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Apoplexy posted:Learning too much about the game is basically cheating.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:46
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Soothing Vapors posted:everything wrong with pavonis in under 10 words I can do it in one: pacing
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Feb 18, 2017 03:50
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Tendales posted:A lot of poo poo isn't documented because the mod is still in development, it's not nearly a finished product. Really? It's version is post-1.0, there's no mention of 'open beta' or the like anywhere, and it's own website claims it to be "Status: Released". That's pretty explicit. If this was a commercial product (say, XCOM....) you'd expect fully realized mechanics, tutorials and/or manuals, etc. But there are experienced players from the base game (and first LW variant!) hopping in and being totally loving clueless on how anything works. It might not be 'finished' in that there will be continued development and support, but it would have been nice if it was 'complete'. But let's be fair, this isn't a paid-for product, it's a mod! It's not as if anyone was paying these guys to release LW2...
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Feb 18, 2017 03:58
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Fridurmus posted:But in a game largely based around strategy and planning (in theory), how are you supposed to play well if the rules are deliberately obfuscated? This isn't some minor mechanic we're talking about- it's the manner by which the game presents you with opportunities to move forward, and without knowing any of that, I would've assumed it was completely and utterly random, not allowing me to make informed decisions about where and when to put rebels on intel. Exactly. This is a strategy game, yet with arbitrarily hidden mechanics critical to planning your strategy. The basic rules of the game are not clearly communicated. You may find it fun Apoplexy, but it's a design that is very player hostile, essentially asking them play long enough to notice patterns of weighting within the randomisation, or look at the code. Turns out for a game that takes a long time to play, being told that you need to spend EVEN more time before you can even understand the rules of the game isn't something alot of people like to swallow, and they're not idiots or cheaters for thinking so. Tendales posted:A lot of poo poo isn't documented because the mod is still in development, it's not nearly a finished product. Nah, it is 'finished'. This is the support phase so the game won't be majorly changed at this point, merely bugs fixed, small additional features/missions, and more documentation. LW2 will not change dramatically from what you now see. Serephina posted:But let's be fair, this isn't a paid-for product, it's a mod! It's not as if anyone was paying these guys to release LW2... Yeah, to be super clear, Long War 2 was commissioned by 2K Games. One of the fairly major side effects to this is a closed development process, and translations required for all languages XCOM2 released to. Translations cost money, and there was pressure to keep the word count down for budget reasons, as far as I've heard. This unfortunately means that in-situ documentation (actually part of the game) is really scarce in terms of illuminating these hidden mechanics. Maluco Marinero fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 03:58
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Maluco Marinero posted:Exactly. This is a strategy game, yet with arbitrarily hidden mechanics critical to planning your strategy. The basic rules of the game are not clearly communicated. You may find it fun Apoplexy, but it's a design that is very player hostile, essentially asking them play long enough to notice patterns of weighting within the randomisation, or look at the code. Turns out for a game that takes a long time to play, being told that you need to spend EVEN more time before you can even understand the rules of the game isn't something alot of people like to swallow, and they're not idiots or cheaters for thinking so. The people providing balance feedback are intimately familiar with game mechanics and are not above abusing them in ways they think Legendary players will eventually in order to balance the game. And like LW1, Impossible/Legendary balance adjustments are going to trickle down into other difficulties
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Feb 18, 2017 04:07
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Lunethex posted:I can do it in one: Man the 10 man 0% infiltration brawls are so fun in LW2. Its everything I want in a tactical experience. But it gets stale so fast because new aliens are so slow to show up. Im in November on Commander and Ive seen one Andromedon, a handful of Archons and like 2 Codices. I want to see more Archons bombarding my positions, or a Codex flanking and then draining all my ammo, or a Gatekeeper being a floating douchebag. Please no more generic ADVENT pods with all the same abilities theyve had since March but now with 15 HP and 20 defense.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:14
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Maluco Marinero posted:
LW2 is content complete, except I guarantee they will add/remove/change features before they're done, and the balance passes are barely beginning. LW2 is 'finished' only in the sense that you can play from beginning to end without finding a big 'ADD FEATURE HERE' sign pasted anywhere. I know it's talked up as being a completed mod, but it's really really not, and unless you're the kind of player that enjoys digging in and exploring the mechanics for yourself, you're probably better off waiting for it to get closer to for realsy real completed.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:23
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Maluco Marinero posted:Exactly. This is a strategy game, yet with arbitrarily hidden mechanics critical to planning your strategy. The basic rules of the game are not clearly communicated. You may find it fun Apoplexy, but it's a design that is very player hostile, essentially asking them play long enough to notice patterns of weighting within the randomisation, or look at the code. Turns out for a game that takes a long time to play, being told that you need to spend EVEN more time before you can even understand the rules of the game isn't something alot of people like to swallow, and they're not idiots or cheaters for thinking so. I mean, I kinda get where Apoplexy is coming from, in that "basic rules of the game" is stuff like "you find missions by putting rebels on Intel duty (and the earlier you find them the more time you have to infiltrate), you gain supplies with them on Supply duty, etc, and you need to balance out how many you put where based on priorities", which is documented, whereas optimisation-bait stuff like "you need THIS many rebels on Intel to make up for the Avenger being in another region, supply raids start spawning at THIS level of Advent Strength" is all deliberately obfuscated, and that really seems to be more the sort of thing Not A Step and Maluco are complaining about being hidden. Pavonis strike me as very simulationist devs so their impulse is always going to be to hide the "this is a game" strings as much as they can to try and make things "realistic" and "immersive" (insofar as that is possible using XCOM2 as a framework) - and not everyone is going to be a fan of that! Some people like finding the strings and pulling on them.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:32
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*base game* What is up with these so called bleed out timers? I have played one and a half campaigns and have never seen it happen once. What situation can allow a soldier to bleed out instead of die?
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Feb 18, 2017 04:45
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Dallan Invictus posted:whereas optimisation-bait stuff like "you need THIS many rebels on Intel to make up for the Avenger being in another region, supply raids start spawning at THIS level of Advent Strength" is all deliberately obfuscated, and that really seems to be more the sort of thing Not A Step and Maluco are complaining about being hidden. Thing is, this sort of thing isn't really optimisation bait, it's actually really important knowledge that's obfuscated. It's like playing Starcraft without knowing that +1 weapons gives you 2 hit kills rather than 3 hit kills. Any game as unforgiving as LW requires you to know the optimisation bait, and the problem is... Not a Step posted:The people providing balance feedback are intimately familiar with game mechanics and are not above abusing them in ways they think Legendary players will eventually in order to balance the game. And like LW1, Impossible/Legendary balance adjustments are going to trickle down into other difficulties ...so the game is expressly balanced not for fun or enjoyment, a difficult but fair challenge, but to curtail abuses of highly familiar playtesters. Tendales posted:LW2 is content complete, except I guarantee they will add/remove/change features before they're done, and the balance passes are barely beginning. LW2 is 'finished' only in the sense that you can play from beginning to end without finding a big 'ADD FEATURE HERE' sign pasted anywhere. I wouldn't bet on it.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:48
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Soldiers have a very small chance to bleed out instead of instantly dying when reduced to 0 HP, at first. This chance increases the higher their rank is. I think there might also be a GTS upgrade that increases bleedout chance as opposed to instant death? I am ashamed to admit I don't actually remember. It's pretty dumb how low the initial bleedout chance is, in all honesty. It almost never happens in the early game. On the off chance you do get a soldier bleeding out, keep in mind that in the base game, Firebrand can be called for evac instantly. If you don't have a medkit, evacuating a soldier ASAP will stabilize them at the cost of also removing the soldier you used to carry them out. (It's also worth an achievement the first time you do it.)
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Feb 18, 2017 04:48
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Node posted:*base game* What is up with these so called bleed out timers? I have played one and a half campaigns and have never seen it happen once. What situation can allow a soldier to bleed out instead of die? It is just a chance of happening when you take lethal damage, there's nothing that specifically causes it. It doesn't happen that much but there's a GTS upgrade that makes it much more likely.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:50
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lazorexplosion posted:It is just a chance of happening when you take lethal damage, there's nothing that specifically causes it. It doesn't happen that much but there's a GTS upgrade that makes it much more likely. IIRC it has a 0% chance of happening to soldiers below Sgt, even with the GTS upgrade.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:58
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LW2 makes you have to build weapons individually? What made them think that was a good idea? Building them as a single project for everyone is one of the changes that I've seen pretty much unanimously praised.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:04
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Ugly In The Morning posted:LW2 makes you have to build weapons individually? What made them think that was a good idea? Building them as a single project for everyone is one of the changes that I've seen pretty much unanimously praised. I think it works well as a new fatigue system. I'm sure there's a mod or ini edit for it.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:29
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Ugly In The Morning posted:LW2 makes you have to build weapons individually? What made them think that was a good idea? Building them as a single project for everyone is one of the changes that I've seen pretty much unanimously praised. It opens up a lot more tactical and strategic options. Consider Sparks; one of the reasons they were considered weak in Vanilla is because you have to invest a lot of resources into building new armor and weapons of a type you'll only use on a few soldiers. Building them individually means it makes more sense to use varied rosters and have various grades of troops (an A-Team with the best weapons and a B-Team with hand-me-downs, for instance), and makes the strategic game full of interesting tradeoffs. Not saying it's for everyone, but it's not really a unanimously positive change either.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:30
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Node posted:*base game* What is up with these so called bleed out timers? I have played one and a half campaigns and have never seen it happen once. What situation can allow a soldier to bleed out instead of die? Bleeding out only occurs on soldiers who pass a pretty stringent Will check, a check that is literally impossible for Rookies and Squaddies to pass. Get this mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=621423047
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Feb 18, 2017 06:36
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What happens if you call evac but change your mind? Will it just stay there forever? (LW2)
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Feb 18, 2017 09:54
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Changing evac zones should be as simple as just using the signal flare a second time in a new location; it'll take some additional time to move the evac site, though.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:14
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Liu posted:What happens if you call evac but change your mind? Will it just stay there forever? (LW2) Yes. Once firebrand bothers to show up she'll wait as long as you need. You can throw down a new evac if you need to move it.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:14
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Ugly In The Morning posted:LW2 makes you have to build weapons individually? What made them think that was a good idea? Building them as a single project for everyone is one of the changes that I've seen pretty much unanimously praised. To voice a dissenting opinion, I like the change to singular items. It makes building each one a significant achievement.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:16
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Gyshall posted:Shinobis can be absolutely monstrous when specc'd with Pistol perks, I like making either my low profile/lone wolf shinobi pistol focused, or going with the blade focused path for a ton of surprising utility. The most ridiculous thing is a Shinobi with Faceoff, Shadowstrike and Bring Em On from the AWC. If you can see 16 enemies thats +8 crit damage and you're very, very likely to crit. Ive executed 3 pods of 8 in one click before. An assault could theoretically be even sillier by comboing in Killer Instinct (+50% crit damage when Run n Gun is popped), but that requires getting *really* lucky in the AWC.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:33
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The base game was really close to individual upgrades anyways just for how few soldiers you had and how many different weapons there were.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:37
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Tendales posted:Yes. Once firebrand bothers to show up she'll wait as long as you need. You can throw down a new evac if you need to move it. Cool, thanks. As for the individual items, I always thought it was pretty stupid in vanilla that you only had to buy predator armour once, then you had an infinite supply, since it's such a huge upgrade. I mean a point of armour and an extra item slot, it's pretty obscene for what it costs.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:52
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I had an absolute clusterfuck of a VIP kill/extract mission. Over 100% infiltrated, there were like 4 pods on the map, plus Faceless every 5 steps, and I was running squaddies since I thought it would be easier. I had to fulton extract a dude bleeding out, got mind controlled 4! times, got stunned twice, and had to blow apart the roof just to be able to get down (the city maps with the little overhangs apparently won't allow you to drop from them). None of my XCOM operatives made it out with more than half health and I was frankly amazed any of them extracted at all. I ended up killing like 10 extra enemies solely because the sectoids kept making them zombies.
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Feb 18, 2017 16:32
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Party Plane Jones posted:I had an absolute clusterfuck of a VIP kill/extract mission. Over 100% infiltrated, there were like 4 pods on the map, plus Faceless every 5 steps, and I was running squaddies since I thought it would be easier. I had to fulton extract a dude bleeding out, got mind controlled 4! times, got stunned twice, and had to blow apart the roof just to be able to get down (the city maps with the little overhangs apparently won't allow you to drop from them). I've never run into faceless on anything except the haven defense missions, I didn't know they could be on other maps! I've been having a lot of the low cover can't vault in cities as well, is that intended or the bug?
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Feb 18, 2017 17:14
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It's a bug and it's fixable yourself. I posted the fix in this very thread a few pages back.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:17
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Apoplexy posted:To workaround the issue of a couple of maps not allowing window breaks/jumping low obstacles, go to the file XCOMParcels.ini and comment out the following lines with a semicolon: Specifically, here's the fix.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:26
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Long War 2, much like Long War 1, seems very hostile to letting the player control and deliberately orchestrate anything. Everything is more RNG, more hidden mechanics, anything with guaranteed or at least predictable outcomes like grenades are nerfed or changed. For some people, I'm sure the constant uncertainty and lack of control is challenging, exciting, and fun, but it's certainly not for everyone.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:34
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MF_James posted:I've never run into faceless on anything except the haven defense missions, I didn't know they could be on other maps! You can tell when there's Faceless on city maps mainly because there's civilians fuckin' everywhere. They'll be on top of roofs and in doorways where they normally wouldn't be so that you can go nearby (they don't even need sight on you, if they're vaguely near you they'll uncloak) and get flushed out.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:34
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Firebrand just put my guys down in the middle of a pod. The pod scrambled to cover, battle music started....and then my guys cloaked up in the middle of the road.
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Feb 18, 2017 18:36
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Party Plane Jones posted:I had an absolute clusterfuck of a VIP kill/extract mission. Over 100% infiltrated, there were like 4 pods on the map, plus Faceless every 5 steps, and I was running squaddies since I thought it would be easier. I had to fulton extract a dude bleeding out, got mind controlled 4! times, got stunned twice, and had to blow apart the roof just to be able to get down (the city maps with the little overhangs apparently won't allow you to drop from them). Kidnap VIP missions where the VIP is standing next to a limo in the open are usually traps with a *ton* of Faceless hidden on the map. The Faceless don't count against the map totals, so even on Extremely Light there can be six or seven of them hiding in addition to the usual pods. Even better, when you kill the last ADVENT on the map all the Faceless will pop at once, regardless of your position, and then a small army of jelly men will come hunting you. Im pretty sure its on purpose to make up for how easy it is to grab the VIP standing in the open compared to a VIP tucked away in the back room of a gene clinic.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:26
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Is there a button or option I can select so that pathing won't run me through fire or break concealment?
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Feb 18, 2017 19:29
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xxEightxx posted:Is there a button or option I can select so that pathing won't run me through fire or break concealment? Hold control, then right click to set a waypoint. You can use waypoints to path around things the game would rather hurl you directly into, or to do a humiliating little dance around an enemy before you kill them. In general though the game tries to path around bad things, so usually if you have to run through fire to reach a tile with a move its because the game couldnt find a clear path there in one move.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:33
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