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I maintain that the Forgotten Sands wasn't a bad game. Did it need to be made? No, not really. I just don't understand why everyone seems to hate it so much. I think its worst sin is being a little bland. And once again in Epilogue we see a pretty good platforming section capped off by another lovely repeat boss fight. I mean, I would've taken PoP2008 even with the lovely boss fights if the rest of the game had platforming that was consistently this good.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:32
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nine-gear crow posted:And that's the crux of it: just how credible is Ahriman, anyway? Especially because the only other person who could argue the counter point was 1) dead at the time, and 2) didn't know what the gently caress was really going on either. But yeah, the game doth protest too much because the Prince got hoodwinked by Ahriman into making THE EXACT SAME BARGAIN that the Mourning King did, only much much worse this time. (minor nitpick: not the exact same bargain as the Mourning King. Charming Jackass of Persia still has his soul) See, I think that CJoP's post-hoc rationalization actually holds water: without the Ahura, Ahriman has won, even if he has to chill under seal for a couple millennia. Considering the Ahura were tasked with maintaining the seal and he still managed to get out, how long will this new seal last without any maintenance? And if Ormazd didn't feel the need to directly intervene during this shitshow, how can we assume he'd stop sitting on his rear end in the future? But let's not pretend this isn't a rationalization. Let's not pretend this is why the Charming Jackass went "no gently caress you As to why Ahriman offered the bargain? Standard villainous hubris: he's free right now instead of possibly much later and come on, what could two puny mortals do against the might of a god?
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Feb 16, 2017 16:09
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KieranWalker posted:I maintain that the Forgotten Sands wasn't a bad game. Did it need to be made? No, not really. I just don't understand why everyone seems to hate it so much. I think its worst sin is being a little bland. People really hate mediocre version of good things, heck that is why I argue this game gets such a bad wrap when really it has never been the worst game in existence (I still love the actual act of platforming way more in this game than Sands trilogy for example). And yeah, if you look at the fate of the Ahura over time? They Held the temple and Ahriman for millenia, only to fade away into nothingness while Ormaz was off dicking about. One other main Difference in this Prince is he never really caused this whole problem to begin with, Unlike in sands of time where he had to undo his mistake from the get go he has always kinda been dragged along this ride. I'm this games #1 apologist, gently caress I wrote a Master's paper on it
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Feb 16, 2017 16:31
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nine-gear crow posted:“The Wall of Ormazd” Stormgale posted:I'm this games #1 apologist, gently caress I wrote a Master's paper on it
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Feb 16, 2017 17:49
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Fish Noise posted:Tell us more? It was about how the mechanics of PoP2008 encourage constant forward Momentum and Flow because I think how the platforming plays (light seed hunting excluded) is sincerely the best in a PoP Game and feels so good.
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Feb 16, 2017 17:52
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Stormgale posted:I'm this games #1 apologist, gently caress I wrote a Master's paper on it link plz.
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Feb 17, 2017 03:27
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Prince of Persia 2008: I wrote a Master's thesis THIS THICK! But seriously, that is actually a pretty topic to write a paper on, and the game, for all the poo poo we give it, is rife for that kind of under-the-hood exploration. I hope you got a good grade on it.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:46
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So the third part of Epilogue is going to be up tomorrow, but just as a heads up that that was the last one we recorded and we're unable to record the remainder this weekend due to multiple schedule/illness conflicts. So Epilogue is going to be taking a (at least) one-one hiatus till maybe next week. Though if you've been able to wait a whole year for this LP to finish, another week probably hurt.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:59
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Yeah this wasn't my thesis statement, just a short Essay on the subject (hence the focus on flow), as I said I think this was a B+ A- grade, worse than my "How you can build games to make players act in ways to make other players have fun" final Essay for that module. An essay This Thick
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Feb 18, 2017 10:07
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Stormgale posted:Yeah this wasn't my thesis statement, just a short Essay on the subject (hence the focus on flow), as I said I think this was a B+ A- grade, worse than my "How you can build games to make players act in ways to make other players have fun" final Essay for that module. That was an interesting read, thanks. When thinking about flow in video games, and about Elika constantly reviving you, I'm reminded of Super Meat Boy. That game also features a short iteration between deaths, though its level structure (and how short the levels are) feel like they give a better sense of progression when you finally beat a segment. Looking at PoP08 though, it doesn't feel that the flow is as satisfying, and I'm wondering why. Maybe these reasons:
Anaxite fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 17:58
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 The Garden (Polsy) Elika has a crisis of faith and the Prince remembers this really sweet tomb he robbed once while we solve the only actual puzzle that's in Epilogue.
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Feb 19, 2017 02:14
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I wouldn't consider myself an apologist for the game, but I do think that the ending was actually really good. If anything, I think Epilogue sells how little Ubisoft was willing to stand behind PoP2008. The Energize power feels like something that was cut from the base game, these bosses are bupkiss, and the whole thing is a Marty Stu reaction plot. The ending had me thinking, "Holy poo poo! The next game is going to be great!" And, well, we're seeing how that all turned out. If they had stuck to their guns (or rolled with the punches, if they didn't intend what they made), PoP2009/2010 could have been amazing. The world is going to be bent over a dark god's knee, and the only hope you have is putting a sword and some magic in him before he gets his power back. They can toy around with the idea that it isn't even possible, and put the irreverent Prince through his own sort of crisis of faith while expanding on a truly interesting relationship. Best of all, it's all your fault, and your only trump card is that it doesn't look like you asked for anything. That can be used: if Ahriman has to give you something to take your soul, the fact that the Prince didn't ask for anything is an interesting accidental gambit. On an unrelated note, the Energize power reminds me of L.A. Noire, a game whose head creators I will never understand the mindset of with regard to its DLC. Energize has obviously synergy at least with that red magic power, and it looks good. I can't see why you would hang on to that if you had it on the table when it came time to gather up the good bits and make a game. Fake edit: I watched the third video while writing this. Epilogue is the idea for PoP2009/2010 condensed into two hours. Man, this is sad; Ubisoft gave up on the baby before it even left the crib.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:07
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Anaxite posted:That was an interesting read, thanks. They are fundamentally different games, I mean SMB is all about madcap experimentation and the death loop is far more of a loop, it's why it's lightning quick and is segmented into digestible levels, the moment you master something you have a new challenge to face. PoP208 is obviously more of a linear thing (in the way you experience it) you are designed to go through a level at speed and enjoy the story/quips/boss fights and then experiment a little getting the light seeds, it's a little apples/oranges comparison. The game you want to compare 2008 to is well, Sands of time and that's honestly a bit of a mixed bag, the brief summary I can say without disgorging pretentious bullshit is:
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Feb 23, 2017 10:54
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The Tomb (Polsy) The Prince suddenly remembers he's supposed to be a cynic. The Shapeshifter finally fucks the hell off forever. And the Mourning King steps up his game something fierce. Just one video left now. The nightmare is almost over...
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Feb 23, 2017 22:32
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the videos are done. we did it. we've defeated PoP2008. it's hard to believe, but it's here.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:31
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Blind Sally posted:the videos are done. we did it. we've defeated PoP2008. Do it all over again. For funsies.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:48
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The Real Prince of Persia was the carpet jokes you made along the way.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:51
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If Blind Sally gets me his drat audio the final video will be up tonight.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:57
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nine-gear crow posted:If Blind Sally gets me his drat audio the final video will be up tonight. 
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Feb 27, 2017 01:39
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Please let this nightmare be over
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Feb 27, 2017 02:13
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Hold the last episode hostage, make people donate to charity or something. Make some good come out of all this suffering.
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Feb 27, 2017 02:24
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The Ballroom ~ Credits (Polsy) The Prince and Elika reach the exit of the Underground Temple at long last, but the Mourning King is there waiting for them. In order to continue, Elika faces a daunting decision.  Bonus Video (Polsy) Crow, Artix, Sally, CJakes and Fedule burn down Prince of Persia and take a nice long piss on its ashes.  So the question now at the end of all things is “where do we go from here?” And the answer is “I honestly don’t give a poo poo, the franchise is dead. Go play the Sands of Time HD trilogy.” That said, there is a fairly strong theory out there that I’m partial to (which Fedule also touches in in the finale video as well) that says now that Elika has abandoned him and can no longer protect him with her magic, and with both Ahriman and the Mourning King coming up hot on his heels, the Prince is doomed to become the sixth Corrupted. Because (whether he meant to or not), he did indeed strike the exact same deal with Ahriman that the Mourning King did, and we all saw how well that ultimately turned out for the King. And, personally speaking, I think that becoming one of the new Corrupted alongside the Mourning King is a perfectly fitting fate for the Prince and an appropriate price for his hubris and cynicism. The other five Corrupted all thought they could outsmart Ahriman too and got rightly tooled for it, twisted by their own desires into slaves to his will, so it’s no stretch to assume the Prince is starring down the barrel of the exact same gun they all did. And when you think about it, he’s already got the bog-standard Corrupted descriptor name to go along with the others: The Prince. So yeah the Prince can just go gently caress off and enjoy his eternity of being a super powered slave to Ahriman’s will with his harem of chocolate-covered demon women and carpets of ash and dust where people and cities once stood this thick. Because that’s the hilarious irony of it all: the Concubine was right about him all along… (Above image shamelessly stolen from DeviantArtist RawGraff. You can see the full version of the “Corrupted Prince” picture here on his DA account.)  A QUICK NOTE ON THE ALT SKINS We didn’t actually touch on it in the video, but each skin for both the Prince and Elika has different unlock parameters.
Now, I suppose, all that’s left to do is finally start up that LP of Prince of Persia: The Fallen King I’ve been kicking around to cap this all o—PAHAHAHAHA!!! I can’t even finish that sentence. We’re loving done. We honestly have been for a LONG time now. The echo just finally caught up to us in real time. Anyways, thank you all for sticking out the madness with us. Thank you especially to Artix for forcibly salvaging this LP and actually giving me the drive and inspiration to properly round it out with Epilogue, and also a big thanks to my wonderful co-commentators; Blind Sally, CJacobs, and Fedule, with additional thanks to poorlywrittennovel for his one-off post-facto guest spot, and apologies to Putty whom I had record a slate of material for the Magic Plate tutorial videos that I ultimately didn’t end up using, so gently caress me I guess. And that is a perfect note to end on. It’s been a long time coming. And I promise I will never again LP another game on a whim like this… Unless you count Total Extreme Wrestling. See you… out there. 
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Feb 27, 2017 06:37
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We did it, folks. We loving did it. Prince of Persia is loving dead, long live Prince of Persia.
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Feb 27, 2017 06:40
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Feb 27, 2017 06:41
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Feb 27, 2017 06:47
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Well that was a wet fart of an ending :|
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Feb 27, 2017 07:10
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Do you feel like a hero yet?
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Feb 27, 2017 11:58
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Thank you, gentlemen, for putting forth the effort to actually finish this trainwreck of a game. I hope you manage to recover some shred of your sanity in the aftermath. I am still half tempted to do an LP of Forgotten Sands but I think it would ultimately be kinda boring to watch.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:55
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Thanks for finishing the game even though there really wasn't any carpets this thick in it for you. Now you can actually play some good games for a change!
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Feb 28, 2017 00:16
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Well, thank God it's over. Who knows, maybe Ubisoft will one day give Assassin's Creed the same sendoff it gave to the Prince of Persia franchise.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:59
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Well, congrats to you guys. I do have slivers of hope that one day we will get another PoP, either a sequel or a straight up reboot. At this point the franchise kinda has nowhere else to go- as seen with Forgotten Sands (Which really wasn't bad, just very much OK), adding to the Sands of Time trilogy won't work, and while this did well the fandom's built up a lot of (Fairly or not depending on your opinion on 2008) bad blood regarding 2008. So doing a whole new story may be the one way forward for Prince of Persia.
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Feb 28, 2017 12:49
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The reboot turns out to be an alternate-to-already-alternate-history modern day Assassin's Creed. Also Watch Dogs too. It ends with him accidentally hard-launching the singularity after breaking into ECHELON's AHRIMAN system.
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Feb 28, 2017 13:24
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I just don't get the mentality behind adding the epilogue. The game itself had a bad ending, yes. Epilogue's is somehow worse though.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:23
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 Prince of Persia 2008 essays ahead Found a good article that takes apart the effect Epilogue has on the rest of the game. Obviously, it doesn't explain why the felt the need to make Epilogue (sweet, sweet DLC cash!?), but it offers some compelling reasons as to why it failed. At least they're a bit more nuanced than my own opinions: http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2010/02/choice-is-not-yours-why-prince-of.html quote:[It] is therefore a drat crying shame that the Epilogue spends so much time backpedaling furiously [from the game's ending]. I don't like the game's original ending quite as much as the writer, but I tend to sympathie with their thoughts on it, as well as their deconstruction of Epilogue. Regarding the ending specifically, I actually find myself agreeing with this person's reading: https://www.destructoid.com/revisited-the-ending-of-prince-of-persia-is-broken-154331.phtml quote:That my motivations (as a player) and his ([The Prince]) are dissonant doesn't bother me at all. However, that doesn't change the fact that the transition from non-linear, open world gameplay to linear narrative is sloppy and slapdash and, unfortunately, makes a potentially powerful ending impotent. I think Ubisoft wanted me to have become emotionally invested in the the couple, but the fragmentation of the narrative, with nothing keeping it all together, made that impossible.
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Mar 1, 2017 03:15
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For me, the lynchpin that caused it to all fall apart is that the game doesn't do nearly enough toward making Elika actually like the Prince. His decision in the ending is based on how he feels about her and that's it, but they physically make you do it because you're supposed to care too. But they don't do enough to make you care, even though the Prince does. Just him caring about Elika isn't enough for the player, even if it is for the story. From the beginning of the game to the end, he grows to sorta like her and find her interesting, and she sees him as the "charming-but-only-facetiously" jackass throughout. She recognizes aloud to him that he is a hero for what he's doing to save the world, but they don't add the "...and I think you're pretty cool for doing it" that would tie it all together. Neither character changes at all and that really sucks. The Prince should have become a hero and not so self-centered, and Elika should have softened up to him and revoked her damning of humanity as a bunch of pricks. That was the story they very obviously wanted to tell right from when the characters meet each other. In my opinion it would've made the stinger about the Prince changing his mind and doing the most selfish thing at the end hit even harder! But they don't ever get there and that really really sucks!! CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 04:14
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The Prince of Missed Opportunities this thick!
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Mar 1, 2017 04:21
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Speaking of which, from that last article:    
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Mar 1, 2017 04:28
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ha, i didn't even notice. i was too distracted by:     
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Mar 1, 2017 04:43
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 One last thing to show off now that everything I said and done. This is a screenshot from my Xbox Live Achievements portfolio. When I completed my original recording of the game for the LP (note the unlock date for the achievement), I actually unlocked the Be Gentle With Her achievement. I only discovered after I'd finished recording Epilogue back in January. The achievement never unlocked in game at the point it was supposed to unlock. I'm at an honest loss as to what the hell happened here because I clearly did not beat the game in under 100 deaths, and yet it unlocked. That's not an edited screenshot, I have no reason to post a forgery. It unlocked for no reason and then never notified me it had. And I'm honestly not sure who to blame here, Ubisoft or Xbox because one is just as spotty as the other and putting the two together is often a recipe for disaster.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:47
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You have ruined yourself, crow!!!!! Cool so there are retroactively more winners of that contest.
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Mar 9, 2017 07:20
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