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Welp, finally got around to switching my Rift from front-facing to roomscale. With two sensors hanging from the ceiling at opposite corners, the tracking is pretty drat good. It glitches out a little here and there, especially at the corners, so a 3rd sensor is probably in my future. The cord is even more obtrusive than I expected, which makes me think that when Oculus flagged 360 as "experimental", they were thinking of it as much as the limitations of Constellation. The first company to offer a wireless solution has got my money, even if the battery life is only a couple of hours.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:02
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AndrewP posted:I didn't realize Arizona Sunshine added a new locomotion mode, so I tried it out last night. you gotta do little steps in place
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Mar 9, 2017 22:06
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AndrewP posted:I didn't realize Arizona Sunshine added a new locomotion mode, so I tried it out last night. I haven't played Arizona Sunshine at all, so I don't know how well the Onward style movement has been implemented. Its on sale so I might pick it up. The big advantage that free movement locomotion in gaming is that it resembles a more true-to-life experience by adding is the ability to dynamically and incrementally make small changes to where you are located, which has been a cornerstone of FPS games since its inception. Early on the implementation (Wolfenstein 3d) was incomplete and gradual improvements were made to improve the experience with things like mouselook, strafing, jumping, crouching, etc and the gameplay of FPS games flourished from these improvements. These hallmarks of the format are is why the FPS genre became one of the most dominate game mediums on almost all gaming platforms. VR is very powerful compared to traditional "2D" mouse and keyboard FPS gaming, eliminating many barriers to getting that true-to-life kind of experience so it should be no surprise that people who have grown up expecting these kinds of movement options as the minimum in FPS games are going to feel hugely let down by being stuck with teleportation only, as it represents a big backwards slide from the gradual evolution of the format. This isn't to say that teleportation doesn't have SOME place among VR FPS games, I can certainly see it as a possible enhancement like one of the unlock moves in Shadow of Mordor let you teleport into combat/execution range of some poor orc. A lot of the 'free movement makes me feel weird/dizzy/etc' comments I see remind me a lot of what I remember hearing from people who were getting their first taste of an FPS game in Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, or Duke Nukem 3D. Or of people playing FPS games for the first time on game consoles and preferring a gamepad to a mouse. Perhaps this is something similar and maybe even related, some people are just able to process 3d spatial navigation differently and need that more 'extreme' experience of mouselook or VR free movement. Or maybe I'm missing something entirely but I've not been able to come up with a list of all of the famous FPS games previous to VR that featured teleportation as a primary locomotion method.
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Mar 10, 2017 00:39
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You realize there's a pretty big experiential difference between screen and VR games though, just by virtue of VR games being in VR, right? The human brain interprets the imagery completely differently when its taking up your full field of view and tracking your head movement. Free VR movement making someone feel strange or sick isn't preferential or reflective of a lack of experience, its the brain working as intended when presented with visual movement and not backed up with vestibular stimuli. Really we're probably the ones with the hosed up brains because we're less reliant on motion cues, and well its cool that they make games for us but there are some people that will never be able to comfortably play them. I don't think its in any way appropriate to compare FPSes to VR games that happen to be in first person.
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Mar 10, 2017 01:17
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Movement in VR is one of those cases where nobody will ever come to a consensus about the best way to move because there's no objectively right answer. I really have to pity devs because the best way to deal with the debate is to give your players as many options as possible. I tend to play all VR shooters with stick-based walking locomotion if they offer it, otherwise I wind up frustrated with the sluggish pace and the need to fumble around with the teleportation mechanics in the thick of combat. Robo Recall is actually the first FPS in a while where I've felt that they really nailed teleportation based combat as it gives you enough leeway with the slow motion to really think about what you're doing, and the action gets so frenetic that teleporting instantly can be a great help.
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Mar 10, 2017 01:24
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Mission:ISS is out free today for Rift and Touch on Oculus Home: https://www.oculus.com/blog/rift-in-space-missioniss-launches-today/ If you're into space it's a must-have. Detailed model of the ISS inside and out (sadly only the interiors of the US section are accessible however). You can float around by grabbing handles and throwing yourself forward - the physical controls aren't bad but could certainly be more intuitive. It also has some 'missions' where you use the CanadArm to capture and dock a SpaceX Dragon cargo capsule, and one where you EVA.
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Mar 10, 2017 01:46
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homeless snail posted:You realize there's a pretty big experiential difference between screen and VR games though, just by virtue of VR games being in VR, right? The human brain interprets the imagery completely differently when its taking up your full field of view and tracking your head movement. Free VR movement making someone feel strange or sick isn't preferential or reflective of a lack of experience, its the brain working as intended when presented with visual movement and not backed up with vestibular stimuli. Really we're probably the ones with the hosed up brains because we're less reliant on motion cues, and well its cool that they make games for us but there are some people that will never be able to comfortably play them. But he's right about the fact that back in the 90s people would get motion sickness playing Doom, Descent, and Quake as well. I remember this happening to people too. Obviously VR takes it to another level and very likely a higher percentage of people get sick in VR due to the fact that it's fooling the senses far more effectively than a 3D representation on a 2D monitor. On an unrelated note: Is it okay to have both Async reprojection and interleaved reprojection enabled on SteamVR. One reddit user claimed you should have one or the other check, but I dispute that since Valve wouldn't have two check boxes that you could check if that were the case. I also experienced zero issues having both checked, indeed I only experienced benefits. I need Async reprojection enabled when gaming non VR games in Virtual Desktop otherwise I get jitter when I move my head around. With Async projection, everything smooth as silk. It's like magic. Since the TPcast is technically out in China, I thought one of the HK based computer centres would import it to HK. No such luck, but one store claimed that it's available in Taiwan too. My wife is travelling to Taiwan this weekend to visit her friend and she's going to try to snag a TPcast for me if they do indeed have them for sale. iceaim fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 01:57
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The Walrus posted:you gotta do little steps in place heh, I actually tried this
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Mar 10, 2017 03:46
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iceaim posted:But he's right about the fact that back in the 90s people would get motion sickness playing Doom, Descent, and Quake as well. I remember this happening to people too. Obviously VR takes it to another level and very likely a higher percentage of people get sick in VR due to the fact that it's fooling the senses far more effectively than a 3D representation on a 2D monitor. I think we are at the stage in VR FPS where its both 1: new and people are having some acclimation issues and 2: a lot of developers haven't figured out how to get free motion right and so it causes problems. I can play Onward for hours and never get the slightest hint of sim sickness (100ish total hours on record so far according to steam), but I can get sim sickness easily if I play other games like DOOM3 BFG edition VR, or another one I tried today Mission: ISS, where you get fairly realistic free floating locomotion inside the international space station with the exception of roll, which is probably par for the course for astronauts too. Clearly there are a lot of subtle things to get right to translate free movement in a VR FPS into a smooth experience, but at least it seems some people are starting to get it. Re: Reprojection modes The right settings are going to vary depending upon the game you play due to how things are implemented in the engine. Take Onward for example, you need to make sure you have both interleaved reprojection and if you are Oculus, Asynchronous Spacewarp disabled as well, both for similar reasons. The problem is that certain things like physics can be tied to your frame rate, and when you start to dip below 90fps IR and ASW both flip you into 45fps mode, double the frames being presented to the HMD, and predict the likely rate of motion for the objects in motion. Both of these things are bad when you are playing a multiplayer game and you are also trying to keep in sync with what the server is expecting, you end up just going really slow.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:20
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El Grillo posted:Mission:ISS is out free today for Rift and Touch on Oculus Home: https://www.oculus.com/blog/rift-in-space-missioniss-launches-today/ Using the hand grips to move made me a little seasick 
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Mar 10, 2017 04:56
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The ISS thing was really cool! I'd have paid money for it even if it is a bit low on the interactivity. I'd have really liked to have been able to flip switches and open containers and stuff. And of course see the Russian and Japanese sections. I bet the making of is cool, it's really high res! I assume they did photogrammetry and created a 3d model from it, and it's certainly the most detailed model I've ever seen in VR, of any environment in any game. The only complaint I had was not realizing I have to use both the grip and the point to select options on the pad; that confused me a bit.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:21
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The ISS thing is rad, even though I'm feeling a little woozy now. At first I felt like I was moving the station around me instead of vice versa. But then I oriented myself so that I was going "up" or "down" through the tubes and it clicked.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:24
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rage-saq posted:Re: Reprojection modes You pretty much always want to use asynchronous reprojection. Onward is just stupid because it is a badly programmed game and ties things to your framerate.
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Mar 10, 2017 10:46
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Just in case anyone else missed it as well - turns out in the ISS app there's a settings menu on your tablet. It has graphical settings & the option to enable rotation control when you have both hands grabbing bits of the station. The latter of which is really useful as it's easy to get skewy if you keep using the right thumbstick rotation!
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Mar 10, 2017 11:56
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Does the ISS experience work in Revive? Motion sickness in the ISS experience is pretty much more immersion if you ask me since you'd definitely feel sick if you were actually in a zero G environment as a space newbie.
iceaim fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 12:51
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iceaim posted:Does the ISS experience work in Revive? Motion sickness in the ISS experience is pretty much more immersion if you ask me since you'd definitely feel sick if you were actually in a zero G environment as a space newbie. Works fine Revive, no motion sickness tho. Sadly the station is so small in the game you can't fly around much.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:56
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SEKCobra posted:Works fine Revive, no motion sickness tho. Sadly the station is so small in the game you can't fly around much.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:40
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El Grillo posted:Unless you go EVA in which case you zoom around to your heart's content. But you can't float off into space sadly, they have a boundary not very far from the station. Oh there is EVA? I only tried Explore and tried to interact with the EVA equipment. I'll have to try it again.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:53
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How's Smashbox Arena? Worth getting?
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Mar 10, 2017 17:40
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I wish they would put that pull your self around motion control into Adr1ft. That game was neat (and I keep forgetting to finish playing it) but the control scheme wasn't as good for VR as others. Really pretty though.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:43
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SEKCobra posted:Oh there is EVA? I only tried Explore and tried to interact with the EVA equipment. I'll have to try it again.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:56
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EdEddnEddy posted:I wish they would put that pull your self around motion control into Adr1ft. That game was neat (and I keep forgetting to finish playing it) but the control scheme wasn't as good for VR as others. The grabbing locomotion should really be in all VR games, even if it's just secondary to some other form of locomotion. It's really easy to program in as well.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:11
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Oh if only Kerbal Space Program could run at anywhere close to 90fps with a large station in view. That would be the dream.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:53
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Falken posted:Oh if only Kerbal Space Program could run at anywhere close to 90fps with a large station in view. That would be the dream. I still wish that game would at least finally get a VR mode so you can build rockets in VR. To be able to walk around and place parts precisely where you want would be golden. Like Lego meets Rockets as a kid.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:14
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EdEddnEddy posted:I still wish that game would at least finally get a VR mode so you can build rockets in VR. To be able to walk around and place parts precisely where you want would be golden. Like Lego meets Rockets as a kid. This would be extremely rad, a slight bit of snap-to with motion controllers, yes please
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Mar 10, 2017 23:23
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EdEddnEddy posted:I wish they would put that pull your self around motion control into Adr1ft. That game was neat (and I keep forgetting to finish playing it) but the control scheme wasn't as good for VR as others. Oh man that would totally make that game worth finishing. I'm picturing a drag scheme where the travel isn't really 1-to-1 with your position and more of a way to generate a momentum vector.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:53
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AndrewP posted:How's Smashbox Arena? Worth getting? I love it.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:17
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mellowjournalism posted:Oh man that would totally make that game worth finishing. I'm picturing a drag scheme where the travel isn't really 1-to-1 with your position and more of a way to generate a momentum vector. Well VR would mainly be for ship creation, I am not sure how they would do flight in VR. Unless, they did it where you had a virtual control surface with all the buttons and virtual stick/throttle or something... There could be ways. But I feel that won't happen until either KSP2.0, or some major update down the road. Which is unfortunate because the ship building is one of the best elements that would work perfectly in VR with just a little snap assistance (on and off toggleable) and being able to walk around the ship in 3d Would be pretty rad.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:42
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Clearly the way to do KSP in VR is to be able to watch your launches/spectacular crashes from the comfort of mission control. It'd be amazing to see my insultingly poorly engineered rockets lift off
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Mar 11, 2017 02:43
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Well, one of my Oculus sensors seems to have bitten the dust. Glad they discounted the price. It would happen on a night I'm demoing it to some buddies.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:08
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EdEddnEddy posted:Well VR would mainly be for ship creation, I am not sure how they would do flight in VR. I'm confused. I was responding to your post about Adr1ft, the one where you float around a wrecked space station as an astronaut? I liked the sensation of spacewalking but the rest got boring real fast.
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Mar 11, 2017 05:41
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Picked up Superhot and Arizona Sunshine yesterday. Arizona Sunshine is fun, very challenging in the campaign so far (just into the mines). I went through the Superhot story in one session and am incredibly impressed with it. Wasn't all that sold on the game from what I saw of it before I bought it, took everyone's suggestions and I'm happy I did. I also downloaded Gorn from itch.io, what stupid fun! Anyone know if you can still get in on the closed release that's getting updates?
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Mar 11, 2017 14:33
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Phuzun posted:Picked up Superhot and Arizona Sunshine yesterday. Arizona Sunshine is fun, very challenging in the campaign so far (just into the mines). I went through the Superhot story in one session and am incredibly impressed with it. Wasn't all that sold on the game from what I saw of it before I bought it, took everyone's suggestions and I'm happy I did. Go to their Discord, sometimes the dev tosses out Steam keys for the closed beta.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:10
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I've never seen it talked about in here, but if you like golf at all -- or if you're like me and like the idea of real golf but are too loving awful at it to want to embarass yourself on a real course very often -- The Golf Club VR is pretty drat great. They do a lot of neat stuff to give you the QOL things you have in a modern golf video game without breaking the VR immersion too much. So you have a smart watch popup you can look at to tell you the distance to the pin, you have a "course book" in your back pocket that shows you the overhead map of the hole, etc. And a last swing analyzer that shows you how you screwed up that swing. I'm not going to say it's a perfect golf simulation or anything but it really nails the feel of just chilling your way through a round of golf and it looks very nice. Shanking one into a sandtrap, looking up in exasperation, and seeing an airplane cruising overhead was my "whoa, for a second I forgot I was in VR" moment this week. Since it builds off The Golf Club non-VR, there's over 130,000 courses out there, some procedurally generated and some user-made, that you can play. I've really been enjoying it, even though I am dirt-terrible at it.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:07
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Oculus published the CAD files and accessory guidelines so people can develop accessories for Touch https://developer.oculus.com/downloads/package/touch-accessory-guidelines/ Hopefully they will add in the ability to track more than 2 Touch controllers in the near future, or perhaps even just release the ring around Touch that has the LEDs in it with a mount or something. Considering Touch with 2 controllers and a sensor is $100, the ring with the LED's and a mounting mechanism I would think could be made pretty cheaply.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:52
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EdEddnEddy posted:But I feel that won't happen until either KSP2.0, or some major update down the road. For sure 2.0 if not later. Squad has had VR dev kits lying around their offices since well before the Oculus launch. Iirc, they were playing around with implementing something, but scrapped it at some point. Given what I've heard over the years, I'm not sure the game could handle VR getting plugged into it given all the stuff they've done to it. I've been kicking around making VR vessel viewer for a while, but I doubt I'll ever get around to doing it. If I could get some documentation on how that 3d printing firm converts ships into printable models it should be a breeze.
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Mar 13, 2017 06:39
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Are there any good screen protectors for the Vive? After buffing out a scratch on my VIve, I would prefer not to create new ones. Does anyone have any recommendations?
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Mar 13, 2017 08:04
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iceaim posted:Are there any good screen protectors for the Vive? After buffing out a scratch on my VIve, I would prefer not to create new ones. Does anyone have any recommendations? I guess get a generic phone protector and cut it up? Why would anyone make a screen protector for an enclosed screen?
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Mar 13, 2017 08:23
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SEKCobra posted:I guess get a generic phone protector and cut it up? Why would anyone make a screen protector for an enclosed screen? Because the Vive lenses are soft; they easily scratch if you wear glasses and want to maximize your FOV. On the other hand it's not really possible to see the scratches when you have the Vive on.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:57
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mellowjournalism posted:I'm confused. I was responding to your post about Adr1ft, the one where you float around a wrecked space station as an astronaut? I liked the sensation of spacewalking but the rest got boring real fast. Ah.. I misread. Yep I need to give it another go, but I can see that as that is what was mentioned in more than a few of the reviews.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:10
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