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https://twitter.com/kassyapple/status/844227499882172416
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Mar 21, 2017 18:53
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 09:08 |
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He meant that's the only industry that's hiring out there.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:53
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Just so everyone is clear, that's the 70+ year old writer of the comic, not anyone associated with the show. This is literally your racist grandfather.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:58
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In in y'see in my day we just had chinamen. you had your Asian chinamen, your jap chinamen, and the other ones. Ok grandpa
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Mar 21, 2017 19:34
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Escobarbarian posted:lol no. The problem with Jessica Jones is that it doesn't really do what it does all that well, due to having mediocre writing and dialogue and dogshit pacing. People really did excuse a myriad of faults because it was about abuse of women and whatnot. I'm happy the show exists, but the acclaim clearly comes from it tackling unique themes rather than it actually being a high-quality series. This has me confused. Tackling unique themes doesn't make something a high quality series? Trying something new. I disagree with what else you wrote but that part is puzzling.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:39
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Unique doesn't equal good or done well.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:39
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Escobarbarian posted:Unique doesn't equal good or done well. So you're saying the themes were done uniquely badly? I'm seriously just trying to understand here.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:41
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Oh come on, you have to be deliberately misinterpreting now. The themes are unique because they hadn't been tackled in such detail on TV before. But that doesn't mean they were tackled well or in a way I think made for a good television show. e: to be COMPLETELY clear, I think there were many people who would have liked Jessica Jones no matter what or how they feel about other elements simply because it was the first show to tackle abuse in the way it did and with such focus. Which isn't inherently wrong at all, but it leads me to not exactly trust those people's judgement. Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:42
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Rhyno posted:I spent the afternoon wrapping up Iron Fist (which isn't anywhere close to as bad as people said) so I spent the evening catching up on shows from last week. I'm watching the second episode of the new Samurai Jack and rather than doing the smart thing and barely using Aku since his original voice actor Mako passed away, they instead opened the episode with a ton of Aku dialogue and the guy who replaced Mako is terrible. In the making-of promo they said that they knew there was no way to replace Mako but they felt that excising him entirely from the show or giving him a completely different voice would just be erasing the character and be more of a disservice to his legacy than keeping the character and using his understudy to continue it as best they could. And I'm glad they did because Aku is still the funniest character on the show and it really needed the levity he brought, and you get used to the new guy after like a minute.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:49
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You can respect a show for trying something that needs to be done more in media, but still acknowledge that the show itself isn't good, didn't quite come together, was just too much for the people making it to pull off, etc. I would give an example but it's one of the mod-forbidden shows in the OP. There's another that's like hanging back in the corner of my mind refusing to come to me.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:50
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precision posted:I mean, it did get weird and silly a lot, but that was the charm. Fyvush Finkel is so good in it. He was great too in Boston Public (if he is the guy I'm thinking of). Made a frankly reprehensible character incredibly human and somewhat sympathetic (and realistic!). Escobarbarian posted:Oh come on, you have to be deliberately misinterpreting now. The themes are unique because they hadn't been tackled in such detail on TV before. But that doesn't mean they were tackled well or in a way I think made for a good television show. Themes never tackled in a TV show, breaking new stories in other words in a landscape of generic plots, is not a good television show or "high quality"? I mean it's possible, but the way you phrase that is confusing and goes against your point. edit; IRQ posted:You can respect a show for trying something that needs to be done more in media, but still acknowledge that the show itself isn't good, didn't quite come together, was just too much for the people making it to pull off, etc. This makes more sense, emphasizing the execution instead of hand wavingly saying its terrible not only makes more sense, but its better tv criticism. edit 2: Like one of Harmony Korine's movies about bum fighting, or for TV, Tell Me You Love Me (prosthetic dick and all), includes stuff that I wouldn't want to check out, even if they are introducing new stuff to the mainstream. Though...Tell Me you Love Me was kinda by the numbers plot wise, so even I'm having trouble trying to figure out examples. Its such a small target. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:50
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B-but IRQ said the exact same thing I did. That's exactly what my last two posts say.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:55
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Escobarbarian posted:B-but IRQ said the exact same thing I did. That's exactly what my last two posts say. The trick is to use more commas obviously
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Mar 21, 2017 19:56
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Maxwell Lord posted:Except that is kinda the purpose of a lot of entertainment, is to get the audience emotionally invested in something. If you're emotionally invested in a show then you cannot scientifically assess it on the Metric Quality Index. Please maintain laboratory observation protocol.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:00
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IRQ posted:You can respect a show for trying something that needs to be done more in media, but still acknowledge that the show itself isn't good, didn't quite come together, was just too much for the people making it to pull off, etc. Yeah, I'd feel the same about the OP banned show. Interesting idea that kept me engaged but it never fully came together for me. I think that's a fair assessment of Jessica Jones. Its not how I feel, mainly because I didn't have the same pacing complaints that most seem to. A lot of that seems to just come down to how much you got invested in the characters and leads. It seems reasonable to say I just got deeper in than people who felt it dragged.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:06
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The issue only comes if you insist that's the reason they like it or that that's somehow invalid (which I'm not accusing anyone here of actually doing). Part of what I like about JJ is that it's weird and messy and imperfect. It's part of the way that show speaks directly to me. It's the same reason I still think the best season of Community is 3.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:11
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I think one of my personal reasons for not being on board with Jessica Jones is that I have a distaste for dramas with dialogue that doesn't sound anything like how people actually talk, which imo every Marvel Netflix show has in spades. There are exceptions if it's stylised in a way I enjoy, ala something like This Is Us or Hannibal, but the dialogue in Marvel shows doesn't really have a style to me, it's just uber-bland. This is why I don't really watch a lot of network dramas tbh - the dialogue tends to be so much more about moving plot forward than ringing true. Plus the whole thing of characters acting stupid to service the plot (unrelated but this is why Get Out is like the best horror movie in years)
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Mar 21, 2017 20:24
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Shageletic posted:The trick is to use more commas obviously TV needs more commas, more semicolons too, but only after the watershed obviously.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:24
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Escobarbarian posted:I think one of my personal reasons for not being on board with Jessica Jones is that I have a distaste for dramas with dialogue that doesn't sound anything like how people actually talk, which imo every Marvel Netflix show has in spades. There are exceptions if it's stylised in a way I enjoy, ala something like This Is Us or Hannibal, but the dialogue in Marvel shows doesn't really have a style to me, it's just uber-bland. This is why I don't really watch a lot of network dramas tbh - the dialogue tends to be so much more about moving plot forward than ringing true. Plus the whole thing of characters acting stupid to service the plot (unrelated but this is why Get Out is like the best horror movie in years) Dawson's Creek pretty much inoculated me against "no one talks that way" shows... I'd like to hear your recommendations for televisions dramas that have realistic dialogue. Since I'm not too bothered by unrealistic dialogue, I've never really sought them out, or thought about it too much.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:04
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Escobarbarian posted:I think one of my personal reasons for not being on board with Jessica Jones is that I have a distaste for dramas with dialogue that doesn't sound anything like how people actually talk, which imo every Marvel Netflix show has in spades. There are exceptions if it's stylised in a way I enjoy, ala something like This Is Us or Hannibal, but the dialogue in Marvel shows doesn't really have a style to me, it's just uber-bland. This is why I don't really watch a lot of network dramas tbh - the dialogue tends to be so much more about moving plot forward than ringing true. Wow. How do you deal with shows where a lot of it is the language, like Pushing Daisies, Series of Unfortunate Events, Veronica Mars, Sweet/Vicious, Riverdale, Gilmore Girls, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and oh God, I just realized the running trend there is although anyone can watch, they seem to be targeted for women mostly.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:21
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I assume those are the "stylistic" shows Escobarbarian is talking about as the "exception." Personally its the big reason why I can't get into most of those shows since I find that more grating than the average slightly stilted network dialogue that moves the story along.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:47
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Was going through my bookmarks and noticed that the Review Season 2 thread had been archived and there isn't a thread for Review Season 3, granted it's only 3 episodes. First episode was last Thursday and I found out it was airing...last Thursday, again it doesn't seem like Comedy Central was interested in promoting it too much or maybe I just wasn't watching the channel at the right times, I don't know. Next episode is this Thursday and the last episode is the Thursday after that. First one was good but I'm not sure if they'll be able to ramp it up like previous seasons did with only 3 episodes.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:48
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STAC Goat posted:I assume those are the "stylistic" shows Escobarbarian is talking about as the "exception." Yeah that's "basically right" (although gently caress Gilmore Girls dialogue imo) and stilted is a very good word to describe dialogue I personally dislike. I would say Breaking Bad is a good example of a show where while the plotting can be dramatic the dialogue (and character work) always feels completely real.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:23
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Pan Dulce posted:Wow. How do you deal with shows where a lot of it is the language, like Pushing Daisies, Series of Unfortunate Events, Veronica Mars, Sweet/Vicious, Riverdale, Gilmore Girls, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and oh God, I just realized the running trend there is although anyone can watch, they seem to be targeted for women mostly. I haven't seen most of those but I will certainly admit that the way Series of Unfortunate Events' writing style drove me up a loving wall.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:25
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Escobarbarian posted:I would say Breaking Bad is a good example of a show where while the plotting can be dramatic the dialogue (and character work) always feels completely real. Skinny Pete, Badger, Gus Fring, Tuco and the Salamanca Twins all feel like cartoon characters to me. Yeah, those types of people exist in the real world but the characters in the show seem like extreme versions of them and it largely comes down to the their dialogue (or lack of it)
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Mar 21, 2017 23:53
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Oh yeah Tuco especially is the exception there. Would have to go back and check to say more about Skinny Pete and Badger.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:56
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Speaking of bad dialogue, I'm doing a re-watch of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend with the wife and some of the writing in this show is goddam awful. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but the expository dialogue in some scenes is cringey as gently caress. Especially in the premieres.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:57
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Badger's Star Trek fanfiction is the realest poo poo imaginable.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:57
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Escobarbarian posted:Oh yeah Tuco especially is the exception there. Would have to go back and check to say more about Skinny Pete and Badger. It's kind of been undone by Better Call Saul, but I even put Breaking Bad's Saul Goodman in that boat as well.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:58
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I really doubt Jessica Jones is the first show to deal with abuse. It's just the first one that starts with a comic book logo that draws viewers in.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:00
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Aphrodite posted:I really doubt Jessica Jones is the first show to deal with abuse. It's just the first one that starts with a comic book logo that draws viewers in. Hey Batman '66 very clearly depicted an older man forcing a young child to wear revealing clothing while being forced into life threatening situations.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:05
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Had a long weekend with the parents and we wound up getting hooked on The Crown. Neat little drama. Parents found it interesting to see a show about something that happened within their lifetimes and they'd been partially aware of before (Dad for example was a tween when Elizabeth was crowned but remembers his parents going to a friend's at something like 3AM to watch it and how much of an impact it made on them).
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Mar 22, 2017 01:21
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gently caress yeah Profit!
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Mar 22, 2017 01:40
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Holy poo poo the scene during the credits in tonight's ep of The Mick.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:58
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Aphrodite posted:I really doubt Jessica Jones is the first show to deal with abuse. It's just the first one that starts with a comic book logo that draws viewers in. Surely the TVIV hivemind isn't so narrow as to only be able to come up with nerd shows?! There's not a super prominent analogue I can think of, however. Closest I can think of is Happy Valley, which is brilliant but not really the same (doesn't really get into the twisted sense of guilt for having suffered the abuse which was to my mind the core of JJ's examination).
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Mar 22, 2017 03:29
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whowhatwhere posted:Surely the TVIV hivemind isn't so narrow as to only be able to come up with nerd shows?! There's a whole bunch that deal with sexual (or other kinds of) abuse either as a core narrative driver or as a significant part of their show. Mad Men, Six Feet Under, Treme, The Americans, The Shield, The United States Of Tara, Bates Motel... that's just off the top of my head. That said, not many shows, or even seasons of shows, have been almost entirely defined by sexual or coercive trauma in the way that Jessica Jones' first season was. Even the shows featuring serial rapist villains, like The Magicians or Veronica Mars, generally depict sexual assault as one part of a milieu of dangers that the characters in the show were facing. I'd also argue that the depiction of Killgrave, the main villain in Jessica Jones, is largely responsible for the show's immediate power and emotional resonances. His superpower -- the ability to command people to do anything he wanted with the power of his voice -- was a really effective way of literalising the feelings of powerlessness and negative compulsion that are true to experience of trauma. I think it's the nerdy science fiction stuff that gives the show a freshness and a power that the other shows might not have, basically.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:55
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It also wasn't just about abuse because of Jessica and Killgrave's story. Every character in the show was in an unhealthy or abusive relationship of some kind. It was a study on abusive relationships. Not just a show about one.
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Mar 22, 2017 05:24
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Escobarbarian posted:I think one of my personal reasons for not being on board with Jessica Jones is that I have a distaste for dramas with dialogue that doesn't sound anything like how people actually talk, which imo every Marvel Netflix show has in spades. There are exceptions if it's stylised in a way I enjoy, ala something like This Is Us or Hannibal, but the dialogue in Marvel shows doesn't really have a style to me, it's just uber-bland. This is why I don't really watch a lot of network dramas tbh - the dialogue tends to be so much more about moving plot forward than ringing true. Plus the whole thing of characters acting stupid to service the plot (unrelated but this is why Get Out is like the best horror movie in years) Nobody on TV talks like people actually talk. There's not a way people actually talk to begin with, because discourse varies depending on context and culture. But also because generally verisimilitude is boring unless the subject is really interesting people (ala My Dinner with Andre). The same is true in movies. I dunno, I like Jessica Jones' dialogue. Or maybe it's that Krysten Ritter is magical. I don't even know what realistic is. I'm not sure I want realism as much as I want coherence, and "authenticity" (which is different from realism in ways it's tricky to define). I will also stand by Juno's dialogue forever. 
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Mar 22, 2017 06:16
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Hey guys, anyone here seen Iron Fist yet? It's awesome, and so are all the marvel shows before it.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:03
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 09:08 |
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Lots of TV shows have included abuse at some point, but Jessica Jones is the first show that I've seen that really got abuse right and it has nothing to do with the Marvel brand. Half the time when TV shows show abuse it's a shorthand for establishing a character as a bad guy, the other half it's designed to give the hero something to struggle past for an episode or two. It's a plot point that is introduced and then dropped once the writers have moved on to the next dramabomb. Jessica Jones understands that the horror of abuse isn't in the act itself, it's about the long-term damage that's inflicted after the fact. The aftermath of abuse is messy and dark and painful and the show doesn't shy away from that. Then on top of that it takes that theme and runs with it through every aspect of the show to a level that most other shows don't ever even try to achieve. It might not always be perfect in execution but it's got a lot to say if you want to listen. Also I really need to get back to Sweet/Vicious.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:47
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