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In Witcherworld all the humans turned up like a thousand years ago when they fell through an interdimensional portal, so having a totally homogenous population or a wildly diverse one both make sense
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Mar 31, 2017 20:59
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Pellisworth posted:W3 is okay at that, it's not actively homophobic (though there is racism!) lmao
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Mar 31, 2017 21:00
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Presumably meaning there is racism in the setting.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:02
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2house2fly posted:In Witcherworld all the humans turned up like a thousand years ago when they fell through an interdimensional portal, so having a totally homogenous population or a wildly diverse one both make sense Any inconsistencies in the setting can be chalked up to "the conjunction of the spheres did it". Monsters? Advanced forensic science? Equal opportunity education at established institutions? Spheres did it.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:03
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Witcher doesn't need to be inclusive. The whole point is that it's just as lovely as real life and people are assholes and there are heavy doses of racism and classism running deeply through the entire thing.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:23
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Fuzz posted:Witcher doesn't need to be inclusive. The whole point is that it's just as lovely as real life and people are assholes and there are heavy doses of racism and classism running deeply through the entire thing. But real life has tons of people of color and whatnot who face racism and classism from assholes, I'm not seeing how the idea of being inclusive would somehow tarnish that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly up in arms about wanting more representation in the Witcherverse, I'm just not quite understanding your example here.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:27
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The Witcher 3 also suggests that the in-universe multiculturalism of shoving normal people/poor people elves, dwarves, and humans into the same city is an idea with little upside that works out pretty poorly (While at the same time Witchers, Sorceresses, and other outsiders have no problem with the other species and count dwarves/elves among their best friends/most respected - Keira's ability to distinguish between respectable elven mages and "flea-bitten scoiatel" is indicative of her class but isnt done by the normal peasants of Velen) The really strange part for the fantasy narrative is that nilfgaard is global capitalism (its emperor is deposed by a trade cartel), and it wins a perfect victory in the best ending No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 21:30
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Robin Hood had a black BFF depending on which version you pay attention to. And a blind one!
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Mar 31, 2017 21:45
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Out of curiosity, were the Ofieri characters originally planned for HoS or were they introduced as a response to the criticism of everyone being white? Because if so, that's basically the perfect response. The Ofieri are great, they really felt like they had a distinct culture from what little we saw of them. edit No Wave posted:Killijg NPCs in the game doesnt really feel real unless there's a dialogue option for it. There is a dialogue action for it. SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 22:44
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SirSamVimes posted:Out of curiosity, were the Ofieri characters originally planned for HoS or were they introduced as a response to the criticism of everyone being white? Because if so, that's basically the perfect response. They were always planned. Crappy Jack posted:But real life has tons of people of color and whatnot who face racism and classism from assholes, I'm not seeing how the idea of being inclusive would somehow tarnish that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly up in arms about wanting more representation in the Witcherverse, I'm just not quite understanding your example here. And you meet Ofieri and help one of them setup a small business. I'm talking about the whole crying about the lack of homosexuality or the fact that one dude is ostracized for being gay. Phillipa is bi leaning heavily toward being a lesbian and you can see men getting dances from male hookers in some brothels, and vice versa with women. It's there, it's just not shoved in your face as a, "AND HERE'S THE PART WHERE WE PANDER TO SOME OF OUR AUDIENCE'S EGO BY SPECIFICALLY COMMENTING ON AND ADDRESSING THIS THING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THEM IN REAL LIFE BUT HAS NO BEARING ON OUR NARRATIVE. AT ALL." We see things from Geralt's perspective, and unsurprisingly Geralt doesn't really give a poo poo about any of that. Geralt also isn't gay, and giving players the choice to make him so literally flies in the face of one of the core narratives of the game, so... The game is fine and presents a believable world with a good cross section of people for what it's trying to show. A few random travelers stand out and sore us there's a larger world out there. The region we're dealing in is meant to be 1200s northern Europe. By those metrics, it works. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 23:31
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"Of drat there are a ton of new posts in the Witcher thread, let me see..." 
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Apr 1, 2017 06:03
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Trying to be spoiler-free here. I know the thread said Don't push Djikstra. But I'm just saying, I played Witcher 2, I place Roche above most people. He believed my story, and my story was true, so I could clear my name. I don't forget poo poo like that. In my view i still owed him even if he did help me at Kaer.
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Apr 1, 2017 06:14
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In my NG+ i just fought a Fire Elemental. I just noticed that my sword glows red hot every time it comes in contact with the monster. There is fire everywhere. 
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Apr 1, 2017 06:18
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Fuzz posted:The region we're dealing in is meant to be 1200s northern Europe. By those metrics, it works. C'mon this is a terrible cop out and you know it. I think people are just sick of the amount of stuff which gets overlooked because the witcher is a goon darling. No other game has been given such a widespread pass on this sort of laziness and it's getting tiring, tbh, especially with the need to run into other game's threads and wax on about its virtues. e; kinda the same with Nier Automata really. The same folk who'd castrate other developers for cleavage are suddenly really defensive about lesbian BDSM robots, because it suits the plot. 
poptart_fairy fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 06:25
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No Wave posted:The Witcher 3 also suggests that the in-universe multiculturalism of shoving normal people/poor people elves, dwarves, and humans into the same city is an idea with little upside that works out pretty poorly Actually I'd say siding with Dijkstra is a better ending, it just requires being a completely heartless bastard to accomplish it I wonder what % of people went for that ending. Probably a tiny minority
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Apr 1, 2017 06:40
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Fargin Icehole posted:Trying to be spoiler-free here. Two separate decisions. You don't get to make the one you're talking about at all if you shove Dijkstra earlier.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:05
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2house2fly posted:Presumably meaning there is racism in the setting. I thought that user was making fun of the "EVEN RACISM" dev diary, to be honest. Also, I personally thought that all the "but historical accuracy!" justifications were dumb for a variety of reasons, however I always largely attributed the lack of PoC (that blanket term always sounded weird to me, but it's the mainstream definition so I'm going to go with it) to the fact that modern Poland is white as gently caress and most of the creative visionholders at CDPR are Polish. It's good that they still tried to amend that in Hearts of Stone, though.
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Apr 1, 2017 08:07
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I think there's some interesting stuff you could explore if you introduced more people of colour into the setting. Because you have a society with a bunch of backwards feudal peasants, nascent nationalism on the rise, a scientific community with an understanding of genetics and distinct species of non-humans who are subject to racism. Under those conditions I doubt you'd see many people taking any interest in skin colour until Nilfgaard colonises Zerrikania or Ofir.
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Apr 1, 2017 08:29
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In all seriousness though, are there literally people who play this wonderfully designed and coherent game and then suddenly go "I wonder why there are no black guys" while walking through a sunny field in Toussaint... I mean I have literally not given any thought to that at all since in this is fantasy world setting. I wouldn't ask myself why there are no white dudes in a samurai game either.
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Apr 1, 2017 08:33
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I don't think there is a group globally more ostracized, maligned and subjected to more unceasing violence than Arabs. I don't see people asking Bioware why they don't do something to be more inclusive of Arab culture and and history in their games. Again, it's because it doesn't affect average American's day to day existence. Witcher wouldn't be compromised by dealing with race etc. in the individualist manner that is typical of other games, but it already leans heavily on the topic of ethnic violence, nationalism, self-determination of peoples, and political divide and conquer strategies plucked from Eastern European history, where Nilfgaards attitudes to minorities and minor nations mirror both the experience with Ottoman Empire and Russia, their apparent concern for their rights which only leads to them being used as cannon fodder or given token autonomy under an oppressive regime, but also the French hard secular nationalism which gave birth to European statehood by making the suppression of variance within Empire the base for governance. which are all topics with great relevance for current European politics.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 08:49
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Yeah my feeling was they replaced human races with the struggle of the elves and dwarfs vs humans to depict a problem in society in wma way that befits the fantasy setting, but I guess you can always find a reason to cry foul if you need internet cred among the sjw and similar idiots.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:19
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Not the Sjews! 
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Apr 1, 2017 09:48
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Gameplay related question: I have started BaW and I have two or three times now reloaded because I slew bandits or found dead people and suddenly got updates for quests I did not even have. What's the deal here? (One of them was called "pack fo five" or soemthing the other is me coming up on a bunch fo dead peeps and Gerlat starting to talk about a monster "Hmm foul odor spreads the griffin must be flyign high" I knew nothing about. Shoudl I just stick to the main quest first or hwo does this work....it seems this is not as explorer friendly as the main game.
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Apr 1, 2017 11:06
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https://twitter.com/cdprojektred/status/848082511846625280
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Apr 1, 2017 15:16
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Those jokes are only half as funny if it's things you could actually sell. I'd buy one 
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Apr 1, 2017 15:20
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Hopper posted:Yeah my feeling was they replaced human races with the struggle of the elves and dwarfs vs humans to depict a problem in society in wma way that befits the fantasy setting, but I guess you can always find a reason to cry foul if you need internet cred among the sjw and similar idiots. This exactly. Elves are black people in the same way mutants in Marvel were black people in the 60s. It's an allegory, and not a subtle one, but let's be real, gamers are some of the dumbest and thick headed people on the planet, so...
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Apr 1, 2017 16:02
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Hopper posted:In all seriousness though, are there literally people who play this wonderfully designed and coherent game and then suddenly go "I wonder why there are no black guys" while walking through a sunny field in Toussaint... I'm still patiently waiting for a historical fiction game about Yasuke, the 6 foot African samurai who was Oda Nobunaga's trusted advisor. edit: apparently he has a cameo in Nioh but he deserves his own game
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Apr 1, 2017 16:30
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also fwiw, i think it's the dumbest and most thickheaded and yes, even racist, thing possible to look at the witcher 3, a game with major, present themes at the forefront of the storytelling about colonialism, racism, prejudice, institutionalized power, and think "Uhhh i need to see more black skin being beaten with whips before it's good in my eyes"
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Apr 1, 2017 16:33
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Under the vegetable posted:also fwiw, i think it's the dumbest and most thickheaded and yes, even racist, thing possible to look at the witcher 3, a game with major, present themes at the forefront of the storytelling about colonialism, racism, prejudice, institutionalized power, and think "Uhhh i need to see more black skin being beaten with whips before it's good in my eyes" I mean, I don't know for sure who's complaining about it or their specific reasons, but a lot of the legitimate gripes about representation are from the perspective that, if I'm playing a game for hundreds of ours, its really loving weird to not see ANYONE who looks like me. It's not something white people can really understand since we're everywhere all the time.
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Apr 1, 2017 16:41
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steinrokkan posted:where Nilfgaards attitudes to minorities and minor nations mirror both the experience with Ottoman Empire and Russia Niilfgaard seems more based on the Holy Roman Empire than anything else I mean I know its all fantasy but still, the world portrayed in the games is very obviously drawn mostly from Gdansk/Danzig and environs and the main nations portrayed and their relationship to each other seems very directly based on the relationships between Poland, Bohemia, and the HRE
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Apr 1, 2017 16:43
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Under the vegetable posted:also fwiw, i think it's the dumbest and most thickheaded and yes, even racist, thing possible to look at the witcher 3, a game with major, present themes at the forefront of the storytelling about colonialism, racism, prejudice, institutionalized power, and think "Uhhh i need to see more black skin being beaten with whips before it's good in my eyes" It is possible to have a more diverse cast without including real world racism, especially if the excuse behind exclusion is "it's is a fantasy world". Hope this helps.
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Apr 1, 2017 16:57
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The Witcher world map (or rather, that section of it that's relevant to the narrative) is basically a copy paste of Poland-HRE carefully cut up to hide all signs that Asia or the Ottoman empire ever existed and ever affected European events. (Quoting a blog post from memory here, but it sounds convincing enough)
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Apr 1, 2017 17:04
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poptart_fairy posted:It is possible to have a more diverse cast without including real world racism, especially if the excuse behind exclusion is "it's is a fantasy world". Hope this helps. exactly, the cast is pretty diverse. there are several ethnic subgroups among the humans and there are also elves and dwarves and other intelligent races that are ostacized and segregated because they look different. saying you need a specific kind of token representation or the game is bad is rooted in some kind of racial suprematism i think
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Apr 1, 2017 17:07
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uhhhh i'd like more black people in this game OH YOU WANT TO SEE THEM WHIPPED AND CHAINED IS THAT IT
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Apr 1, 2017 17:07
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to be honest it's pretty racist and buying into the myth of the white race and white solidarity to look at this game and all the different human cultures in it and go "ITS JUST WHITE PEOPLE THEYRE ALL THE SAME"
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Apr 1, 2017 17:08
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poptart_fairy posted:uhhhh i'd like more black people in this game you do. all the complaints about wanting to see more black and arab people in this game is from people fantasizing about watching them be victimized. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 1, 2017 17:09
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Nobody in the thread asking for more diversity has said that. You, however, directly equated their posts to asking for whipped and chained black people. I don't think accusing someone of projection is really in your favour here, buddy. Under the vegetable posted:you do. all the complaints about wanting to see more black and arab people in this game is from people fantasizing about watching them be victimized. lmao, the gently caress is this
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Apr 1, 2017 17:09
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especially considering there are arabic-coded people in the game and they're mostly fine
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Apr 1, 2017 17:10
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poptart_fairy posted:Nobody in the thread asking for more diversity has said that. You, however, directly equated their posts to asking for whipped and chained black people. don't be so dishonest. when someone comes in and ignores the setting, ignores all the messages the game has about racism, and prejudice, and power, and says they just dont understand it, why can't black people be in fantasy poland, they are just fantasizing about black people being used, being represented just to be victims, so they can learn a lesson a little bit easier.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:11
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Under the vegetable posted:don't be so dishonest. when someone comes in and ignores the setting, ignores all the messages the game has about racism, and prejudice, and power, and says they just dont understand it, why can't black people be in fantasy poland, they are just fantasizing about black people being used, being represented just to be victims, so they can learn a lesson a little bit easier. They're actually asking for more diversity in ethnicity. You are the only person in this thread with a weird hard-on for violence against minorities. What the christ man, seriously look at what you're posting here.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:12
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