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Also a tip if you're new to rails: You can give several stations the same name and they'll only show up once in the station list. If one station is occupied the trains will go to the next closest with the same name. So you can make a multiple platform station. Don't forget signals and chain signals so trains don't get gridlocked. Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 19:50
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Collateral Damage posted:Also a tip if you're new to rails: You can give several stations the same name and they'll only show up once in the station list. If one station is occupied the trains will go to the next closest with the same name. So you can make a multiple platform station. Don't forget signals and chain signals so trains don't get gridlocked. The fact you have 9 lanes there makes me hurt so bad inside, cause I know you're not gonna balance those input belts. You make me sad.
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May 7, 2017 19:54
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Collateral Damage posted:Also a tip if you're new to rails: You can give several stations the same name and they'll only show up once in the station list. If one station is occupied the trains will go to the next closest with the same name. So you can make a multiple platform station. Don't forget signals and chain signals so trains don't get gridlocked.
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May 7, 2017 20:01
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Collateral Damage posted:Also a tip if you're new to rails: You can give several stations the same name and they'll only show up once in the station list. If one station is occupied the trains will go to the next closest with the same name. So you can make a multiple platform station. Don't forget signals and chain signals so trains don't get gridlocked. Name them all the same and use robots to unload!
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May 7, 2017 20:06
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Azhais posted:Name them all the same and use robots to unload! Wouldn't you end up with huge stockpiles of some items that would just get in the way of other items?
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May 7, 2017 20:09
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Loopoo posted:Wouldn't you end up with huge stockpiles of some items that would just get in the way of other items? Sounds like you're just not producing enough (also I just make vast fields of logistics chests)
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May 7, 2017 20:20
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Welp, I'm getting back into Factorio. Got some amalgamation of Assembler 2's up for Red/Green packs, plus an excuse to use trains to go to the oil field nearby. For some reason, I don't feel satisfied with it. I need a lot more Iron Plates for loving everything, but I need packs to research the electric furnace. I guess, a big part of this is to stockpile at first, THEN throw everything into the automations? Because I feel stockpiling might be fine. If not a bit boring because I'd have to wait.
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May 7, 2017 20:24
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widespread posted:Welp, I'm getting back into Factorio. Got some amalgamation of Assembler 2's up for Red/Green packs, plus an excuse to use trains to go to the oil field nearby. Don't feel the need to go to electric furnaces early; steel furnaces will see you right through the midgame. I only swap to electric when my initial patches run out (especially when I run out of coal in the starting area) and I'm reorganizing around that, or when i'm making remote smelting outposts and can't be hosed shuffling coal around. But there's no advantage whatsoever to rushing electric smelters.
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May 7, 2017 20:33
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DelphiAegis posted:I'm assuming this will work similarly if you say, have your outposts all set to the same name, but turn them on/off individually when the station itself knows (via circuits) that there is a full load to pick up? Yes, that should work, but things might break if none of the stations with that name are active. Also, it's important to note that trains pick which actual station they're going to when they leave the previous station. If a station isn't available when the train arrives, it'll wait for the station to be free. I like to have a station right before the identically-named unloading stations so the train chooses which station to go to as late as possible. That is, if you have 5 stations called, say, "Iron Unloading," I would have a another station right before those stations called "Iron Unloading Checkpoint" (or whatever). The train schedule would be "Iron Outpost until Inventory Full -> Iron Unloading Checkpoint until 0 seconds pass -> Iron Unloading until Inventory Empty," for example. You could also, if you like, use that checkpoint to as a refueling stop. This doesn't work quite as well if all your outposts have the same name, I think. Due to how spread out outposts are, multiple trains would choose to go to the same one, only for one of them to succeed. Unlike the unloading stations, this is very inefficient because other outposts might never get serviced. You could do another check with a dummy station right before the outpost, I guess? That might work, but now you have 2 stations for every outpost. It's not exactly elegant. Another solution is to run each train to specific outposts, which is my preferred (and somewhat boring) method.
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May 7, 2017 20:34
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Loopoo posted:The fact you have 9 lanes there makes me hurt so bad inside, cause I know you're not gonna balance those input belts. You make me sad. 
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May 7, 2017 20:36
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awesmoe posted:Don't feel the need to go to electric furnaces early; steel furnaces will see you right through the midgame. I only swap to electric when my initial patches run out (especially when I run out of coal in the starting area) and I'm reorganizing around that, or when i'm making remote smelting outposts and can't be hosed shuffling coal around. But there's no advantage whatsoever to rushing electric smelters. Agreed. Electric smelters aren't really worth it until you have a modules to spare and/or you've switched from steam to solar or nuclear for power generation. Otherwise, you're getting no real benefit and wasting coal.
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May 7, 2017 20:39
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Electric furnaces are a massive detriment for how early you unlock them. They consume unbelievable amounts of electricity and they're extremely expensive for what is precisely zero gain until you start producing the good modules, which require even more electricity.
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May 7, 2017 20:46
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Who's got a good train tutorial? The mini-tutorials were a little unclear, especially on the details of signalling.
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May 7, 2017 20:52
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Collateral Damage posted:Ok, here's 12 balanced belts. That's super hot.
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May 7, 2017 20:55
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I find electric to be better with the Electric Furnaces mod that Gotlag made. The higher tier furnaces are awesome.
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May 7, 2017 20:55
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Solumin posted:Also, it's important to note that trains pick which actual station they're going to when they leave the previous station. If a station isn't available when the train arrives, it'll wait for the station to be free. I like to have a station right before the identically-named unloading stations so the train chooses which station to go to as late as possible. That is, if you have 5 stations called, say, "Iron Unloading," I would have a another station right before those stations called "Iron Unloading Checkpoint" (or whatever). The train schedule would be "Iron Outpost until Inventory Full -> Iron Unloading Checkpoint until 0 seconds pass -> Iron Unloading until Inventory Empty," for example. You could also, if you like, use that checkpoint to as a refueling stop. It's possible this has changed in .15, but in .14, the trains would pick which station to go to, but every time they were stopped at a regular signal, they would recalculate which platform to go to. However, if they stop at a chain signal, they wouldn't recalculate. So the checkpoint station is still needed if you're going to have a huge unloading station, but wouldn't be needed if trains would recalculate their destination when stopped at a chain signal.
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May 7, 2017 20:58
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RyokoTK posted:Electric furnaces are a massive detriment for how early you unlock them. They consume unbelievable amounts of electricity and they're extremely expensive for what is precisely zero gain until you start producing the good modules, which require even more electricity. Their primary purpose when you unlock them is logistical - you don't need to supply them with coal, so you can put one out in the depths of your factory to turn stone into bricks or similar, or if you need to smelt a little bit of something out at a distant outpost. Definitely don't be using them as your main furnace type until you're not using coal as your power source any more.
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May 7, 2017 21:00
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Toast Museum posted:Who's got a good train tutorial? The mini-tutorials were a little unclear, especially on the details of signalling. https://wiki.factorio.com/Rail_signal e:It's not really that hard in practice. Just put signals occasionally along the length of a rail, and use chain signals for intersections. If a train doesn't want to pass a signal for some reason when you think they should, add more signals. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 22:08
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FISHMANPET posted:It's possible this has changed in .15, but in .14, the trains would pick which station to go to, but every time they were stopped at a regular signal, they would recalculate which platform to go to. However, if they stop at a chain signal, they wouldn't recalculate. So the checkpoint station is still needed if you're going to have a huge unloading station, but wouldn't be needed if trains would recalculate their destination when stopped at a chain signal. To be more clear, the train does its pathfinding when it leaves a station. If it also does pathfinding when it leaves after being stopped at a signal, then it should also choose which station to go to. I doubt they changed it for 0.15, because there were no real problems with the train pathfinding in 0.14. A rail signal is a lot light weight than a station, too! It lets the train choose a station when it first leaves, and if that station is available, it doesn't need to stop. If the station became unavailable, then it has to stop anyway. I'll do some testing to see if this works as well as I think it should.
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May 7, 2017 22:15
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awesmoe posted:Don't feel the need to go to electric furnaces early; steel furnaces will see you right through the midgame. I only swap to electric when my initial patches run out (especially when I run out of coal in the starting area) and I'm reorganizing around that, or when i'm making remote smelting outposts and can't be hosed shuffling coal around. But there's no advantage whatsoever to rushing electric smelters. Well alright, I'll go steel furnace until that point. Might just start a new world in .15.9, since new version and new poo poo and all. I probably should learn to either save up or have as much going as possible in terms of Iron/Copper production. Anything wrong with rushing electric drills and making a lot of them in my iron deposits? Or is that just natural.
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May 7, 2017 22:38
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Electric drills are the biggest electricity draw in the early game so you want to make sure you have enough steam engines.
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May 7, 2017 22:41
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widespread posted:Well alright, I'll go steel furnace until that point. Might just start a new world in .15.9, since new version and new poo poo and all. You should have so many miners that the belts going to your smelters is backed up, and you should ahve so many smelters that the belt going to your factory is backed up. And electric drills are definitely the way to go as soon as you've got electricity production going. Just a word of advice - in general, stockpiling isn't the answer. throughput is. You'll probably want some buffer chests, so that you can run past and grab a thousand iron plates when you're building something, but the factory itself works on throughput
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May 7, 2017 22:44
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I'm bad a Factorio and this thing isn't optimized in any way but... I spent a while designing this thing and it works great now, which is sweet. 
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May 7, 2017 22:52
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awesmoe posted:You should have so many miners that the belts going to your smelters is backed up, and you should ahve so many smelters that the belt going to your factory is backed up. And electric drills are definitely the way to go as soon as you've got electricity production going. I see. Also, I guess I should learn to not really rely on the "four burning miner coal plant" thing as soon as I get electric miners, right?
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May 7, 2017 22:53
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widespread posted:I see. I mean, there's only so many miners that'll saturate a belt. 51 miners will fully saturate a red belt with ore, so there's literally no point plopping down 100 miners and having them all collapse into one single belt. Better to make two separate belts connected to 51 miners each, and have those belts feed furnace arrays. Though being honest, by the time you're at a stage in the game where you can plop down 100's of miners, you'll most likely be using a train network, which'll make this point moot. A saturated red belt with ore can feed over 48 steel furnaces, and 48 steel furnaces can saturate a red belt with iron / copper plate. So always try and build in those ratios, they're the most efficient and every furnace will constantly be working, instead of silly super long furnace arrays where the furnaces near the end never do anything cause they physically can't get ore. https://imgur.com/a/MqCd6 Qubee fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 22:59
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widespread posted:I see. so, take a step back. The entire gameplay loop of factorio is 1) have goal 2) identify problems with current setup that means goal isnt being met, or is being met poorly 3) fix those problems Now fixing the problems you find in 3 becomes your new 1. If your goal is steam electricity (as it usually is, in the very early game), your problems are basically going to be... getting the coal to the boilers in an automated fashion. So yeah, daisy chained coal miners will work, but they'll work very poorly. So the next obvious step would be to make electric miners, and belt the coal to the burners. Now in the process of doing this you'll probably realize that you're running out of iron for belts, and so you'll get sidetracked by making a bunch more iron miners and smelters, and so after you've got basic power going you'll hook your new coal mine up to your smelters, and then you'll realize that your coal production vastly outstrips your iron production so you'll change your iron miners to be electric, too, then you'll realize you've got brownouts because your new miners are outstripping electricity production and you'll need to go beef up your previously minimal steam power setup, and then its 3am and you've got work in a few hours.
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May 7, 2017 23:09
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Solumin posted:To be more clear, the train does its pathfinding when it leaves a station. If it also does pathfinding when it leaves after being stopped at a signal, then it should also choose which station to go to. I doubt they changed it for 0.15, because there were no real problems with the train pathfinding in 0.14. A rail signal is a lot light weight than a station, too! It lets the train choose a station when it first leaves, and if that station is available, it doesn't need to stop. If the station became unavailable, then it has to stop anyway. OK, I played around in creative mode for a bit. I don't think you can set it up in a sensible way with a regular signal. You have a main trunk that splits off into multiple stations, each branch has a rail signal and then a station. A rail signal before the split will be green even if all stations are full, though if the train's initial target station is available then it can just blow right through it. If a train stops at a chain signal, it will repath. So we can design it with a chain signal before the split, which will be red (stopping the train) if all stations are full and blue if only some are full. If the train's target station is taken but another station opens up, it'll go to that other station. You can see this for yourself by enabling the "show-rail-paths" option in the debug menu (F4). So instead of using a train station, use a chain signal! It's cheaper, clearer to schedule, and more efficient.
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May 7, 2017 23:12
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RyokoTK posted:Electric furnaces are a massive detriment for how early you unlock them. They consume unbelievable amounts of electricity and they're extremely expensive for what is precisely zero gain until you start producing the good modules, which require even more electricity. Not really. You get them about the same time as solar power and getting a bank of like 500 panels up isn't all that difficult. Perhaps a bit tedious before you have a ton of robots but still not exactly onerous. That's a big advantage of electric furnaces; you can use the sun to smelt your ore.
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May 8, 2017 00:46
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I've come back to the game after a long time and I've got a factory going where I've worked through almost all the tech tree but my factory is a freaking mess and I want to start afresh but with all my research intact. I know I could just destroy everything but was wondering if there's any way I could save or export my tech tree to a new map. Cheers!
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May 8, 2017 00:48
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Space is infinite. Find a nice stretch of land you like in your current map, gather a bunch of resources, build your new factory. Do not destroy the old messy one until the new one is complete. Or just use console commands to unlock the research.
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May 8, 2017 00:57
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Not really. You get them about the same time as solar power and getting a bank of like 500 panels up isn't all that difficult. Perhaps a bit tedious before you have a ton of robots but still not exactly onerous. That's a big advantage of electric furnaces; you can use the sun to smelt your ore. I maintain that solar power is a pointless cul-de-sac now that nuclear power exists. 
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May 8, 2017 01:06
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I dunno about pointless. Just boring. Incredibly boring.
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May 8, 2017 01:09
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RyokoTK posted:I maintain that solar power is a pointless cul-de-sac now that nuclear power exists. A few solar panels and accumulators is the perfect way to automatically prevent brownouts of Steam Engines.
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May 8, 2017 01:11
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RyokoTK posted:I maintain that solar power is a pointless cul-de-sac now that nuclear power exists. It's nice for powering small outposts you don't want to bring power to, or for powering radars in you want to uncover more of the map. But it's still boring as always.
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May 8, 2017 01:12
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After 160+ hours I finally beat the game  I thought I would make a nice short video tour of my factory for this thread and it turned in to an hour-long thing that I don't really expect anyone to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFiL8hU6bQ0 If you just want to tell me I'm wrong about something then skip to the 37 minute mark to hear me whine about robots.
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May 8, 2017 01:21
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Solumin posted:Do not destroy the old messy one until the new one is complete. I cannot emphasize this enough.
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May 8, 2017 01:26
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I really wish you could demolish ore patches. I hate building a megafactory and then having there be patches of whatever making everything look ugly. I wish cement actually paved over the ore. It could be left underneath and if you remove the cement it becomes mineable again. I spend most of the time running around trying to find somewhere free of any nearby patches. Jamsque posted:After 160+ hours I finally beat the game Really nice base but it's sad to see you've cranked resource patches up to the point where you never needed to rely on trains. Trains are fun as hell. Qubee fucked around with this message at 01:34 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:31
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Loopoo posted:Really nice base but it's sad to see you've cranked resource patches up to the point where you never needed to rely on trains. Trains are fun as hell. Eh, I don't begrudge people their railworld maps, but resource mine-out is not a part of this game that I find fun, or at least not nearly as much fun as building a factory and protecting it from biters. I've played a lot of Transport Tycoon in my time, I don't need to get my train fix from Factorio.
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May 8, 2017 01:37
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Fair point. Totally agree with your roboport / logistic bot criticisms. The one thing I'd say is: regarding the putting item all the way across the map and then having to take it all the way across the map to where it's needed. This can sorta be managed by just sticking whatever item it is in a storage chest near where it's gonna be used. So if you want solid fuel somewhere, stick a storage chest down and fill it with one solid fuel. Logistic bots will then fill that up first if possible, instead of putting solid fuel in a brand new storage chest. I noticed they tend to keep items in the same chest if there's enough space, instead of mixing everything together messily.
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May 8, 2017 01:40
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awesmoe posted:Don't feel the need to go to electric furnaces early; steel furnaces will see you right through the midgame. I only swap to electric when my initial patches run out (especially when I run out of coal in the starting area) and I'm reorganizing around that, or when i'm making remote smelting outposts and can't be hosed shuffling coal around. But there's no advantage whatsoever to rushing electric smelters. I'd go even farther and say electric furnaces should be one of the absolute last things you should do. Only after you've got productivity modules in basically everything else should you consider doing the furnaces so that you can module them. And of course only when you're entirely off coal power. I'll keep running full moduled & beaconed green/red/blue circuit setups still on my original steel smelters usually until I teardown my starter base and rebuild. Smelters give the lowest return for productivity of almost anything, and upgrading is wasting red circuits and steel that should be going into modules and reactors. Jamsque posted:Eh, I don't begrudge people their railworld maps, but resource mine-out is not a part of this game that I find fun, or at least not nearly as much fun as building a factory and protecting it from biters. I've played a lot of Transport Tycoon in my time, I don't need to get my train fix from Factorio. I agree with this. Though my solution is usually to point FARL in one direction and drive for about 5-10 minutes until the ore patches are 300 million or more each. Then I build there when transitioning from starter base to beaconed & robo base. Tear down 80% of my old base except the 'make everything' part and the modules, pull up a train alongside it, and load it up with everything, then I can automatically send it back to my old base to refill while building the new one. (Sucks having to make a 10-15 minute round trip to get those fast inserters you forgot.)
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May 8, 2017 02:17
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