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maskenfreiheit posted:I'm a little fuzzy, but IIRC maybe the ennui of not being hired at HHM may have contributed... obviously we'll never know for sure but my gut feeling is it may have put him in a different frame of mind that led to the D&M flame out Rupert Buttermilk posted:He wanted to be as effective as possible in helping out the Sandpiper residents, so he made that specific commercial and bought specific airtime so they'd see it, and he aired it... Without consulting the higher ups at all. They got pissed, Jimmy only saw the results, and realized "I prefer my way". Also from Jimmy's perspective, he's been his own boss since he started working. The only boss he's ever had (that we've seen) was his dad or Chuck and he knew he was smarter and cleverer than both of them. In his head he knew the commercial was going to work so he went into it with the excuse of "Better to ask for forgiveness than approval" and was shocked that he couldn't spin it around. One of Jimmy's defining beliefs is that the results justify the means. He brought results to Davis & Main but they cared more about putting it through the proper channels and digesting his idea into a bland announcement commercial. He brought his law degree to Chuck but Chuck cared more about going to a proper law school and suffering for your crimes instead of redeeming yourself through hard work at "The University of American Samoa." Davis & Main was stifling but it was stifling because it was grinding against who he was as a person. It's not that he always plays fast and loose all the time always, it's that he has to have the freedom to play fast and loose and cut through all the bullshit. That coworker of his who demanded the grammar of his business letters be just so and approved by her was his polar opposite. This is why Cinnabon is hell. edit: I think I'm rambling vermin fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 18:00
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Also, if he'd gotten a job at HHM and he hated what he was doing, I doubt he would have started leaving his shits in the toilet and playing bagpipes. If he could have quit nicely while keeping that signing bonus he would have. At HHM, a) it's his bros place so he would have been cordial and b) he would have been bottom rung and wouldn't have gotten any niceties anyway. It would have ended with 'Hey Chuck, thanks so much for the opportunity, I think I want to go into private practice'
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May 18, 2017 18:07
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He had no option because he had already spent the bonus.
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May 18, 2017 18:10
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Cojawfee posted:He had no option because he had already spent the bonus. Bagpipes are expensive!
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May 18, 2017 18:15
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vermin posted:Also from Jimmy's perspective, he's been his own boss since he started working. The only boss he's ever had (that we've seen) was his dad or Chuck and he knew he was smarter and cleverer than both of them. In his head he knew the commercial was going to work so he went into it with the excuse of "Better to ask for forgiveness than approval" and was shocked that he couldn't spin it around. Thanks for this. My thinking is that maybe Jimmy would have been more receptive to feedback if he'd been hired to HHM. (I got a JD, now I'm a junior partner. Junior partners answers to senior partners). From Jimmy's perspective, he's always had to hustle, and only hustling (not following orders) leads to success.
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May 18, 2017 18:25
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You guys are being way too kind to Jimmy, in D&M if it wasn't the commercial it would have just been something else, and from the perspective of his employers his behavior is absolutely baffling. I think that scene where his boss has his last conversation with him is really good at showing that, what had they done to him other than expect him to act professionally? The commercial thing was done and dusted, Jimmy was given another chance and he could have just moved forward but he hemmed and hawed and finally cynically engineered a situation to leave with his bonus and a bad taste in everyone's mouth even though the company hadn't really done anything to wrong him. And he's always been skirting the line and he knows it, the Kettleman incident with the fake car crash, the squat Cobbler thing that horrified Kim. For the former he was still completely unaware that Chuck was against him and idolized him and for the latter he seemed surprised at Kim's reaction to him doing something completely illegal. If Chuck knows his brother he knows that elevating him in the company would more than likely open up HHM to deal with the fallout of an inevitable Saul scheme gone awry. We've seen that Jimmy is simply not suited to work in a professional law environment where he has to answer to a higher authority, gently caress Chuck and everything but his position kind of makes sense.
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May 18, 2017 18:34
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Looking forward to seeing the trials and tribulations of Howard. At this point I think that he's one of the better people on the show - yes, he's still under the sway of M and (dead?) H and he did cornfield Kim, but he really does seem like he would rather just get along to get along. Imo the way he rallied Chuck told volumes about his character; it was self-serving on a professional level but also legit good and friendly advice on the personal level. I guess I'm rooting for Howard to resist getting dragged down to the level of the McGills.
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May 18, 2017 19:03
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VacuumJockey posted:and he did cornfield Kim Man, who wouldn't cornfield Kim? Eh? Ehhhhhh? 
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May 18, 2017 19:11
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I'm normally not into blondes, but I would be willing to work through that if Rhea Seehorn asked me to be her beau.
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May 18, 2017 19:32
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Kim and Howard are basically the same character in that they are both decent people and professional lawyers who are just too loyal to their respective McGill brother. And I suspect its going to end up destroying both of them.
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May 21, 2017 02:09
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Not really sure how it could destroy Howard. I think the McGill feud will eventually drive Kim and Howard away leaving both brothers with nobody to reign them in, leading to Chuck being destroyed in the final boss fight as Saul soars like an eagle above Chucks pitiful remains.
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May 21, 2017 03:03
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1stGear posted:Kim and Howard are basically the same character in that they are both decent people and professional lawyers who are just too loyal to their respective McGill brother. And I suspect its going to end up destroying both of them. gently caress Chuck?
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May 21, 2017 03:16
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Kim and Howard drive into the sunset.
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May 21, 2017 07:22
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Kim and Howard drive into the sunset. Much as I'm rooting for Jimmy, I could get behind that
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May 21, 2017 07:34
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mobby_6kl posted:What do you mean by Chuck sabotaged Jimmy? By not wanting to hire him as an attorney in his own company? He was under no obligation to do so, and in fact it was absolutely the correct decision, although he should've made that clear. It's not really the correct decision. Or at least, it isn't presented as such. Jimmy is shown to be a good, hard worker at HHM. Hamlin is open to hiring him. There is some degree of surprise from people that he isn't hired. The person responsible for Jimmy not being hired has extra-professional reasons to be against it, and is also insane. Chuck doesn't "fail to make it clear". He has very negative beliefs about Jimmy and is willing to take pretty hostile measures to ensure he gets his way, but at the same time does not want to openly acknowledge to his brother how he feels about him as a person. We can infer that his refusal to acknowledge it is because, deep down, he knows it looks terrible and is rooted in resentment. khwarezm posted:The Davis and Main thing is important, and I think it shows, whatever about his actions, that Chuck has a point. Jimmy simply cannot help himself even in the best environment. He can't do the proper, by the book lawyer stuff even when its clearly the best path forward, he will always press the switch. He didn't want that job, and should have never taken it. He took it after suffering a pretty bad betrayal. It's also a stretch to say he can't do 'proper, by the book lawyer stuff'. His issue at Davis & Main wasn't related to the law. He did something that is bad professionally, but is by no means any kind of moral failure or real problem. I would say the show intentionally makes Davis & Main look ridiculous, and makes the issue that gets Jimmy in trouble be something so trivial, precisely so that you don't come away thinking that he's just some kind of broken individual who can't ever behave. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 08:21 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 08:14
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Pedro De Heredia posted:It's also a stretch to say he can't do 'proper, by the book lawyer stuff'. His issue at Davis & Main wasn't related to the law. He did something that is bad professionally, but is by no means any kind of moral failure or real problem. I would say the show intentionally makes Davis & Main look ridiculous, and makes the issue that gets Jimmy in trouble be something so trivial, precisely so that you don't come away thinking that he's just some kind of broken individual who can't ever behave. Davis & Main didn't look ridiculous, they just looked stuffy and boring--but ultimately more professional than what Jimmy was offering them. Jimmy's was a flamboyant, ambulance-chasing lawyer type commercial that would have tarnished Davis & Main's public and professional reputation. It was a perfect fit for who Jimmy was, but it was a damaging and selfish thing to do to the people he worked for, who had treated him with nothing but encouragement and kindness and put their trust in him. And Jimmy can't do "proper, by the book lawyer stuff", at least not for long. It just isn't in him. Remember when he illegally cuts corners by soliciting litigants in Amarillo for the Sandpiper case? You're telling me that wasn't because Jimmy is a naturally shady guy who prefers to take the shortest route between two points regardless of legality, but rather because Chuck's jerkiness was somehow mind controlling him into doing it? It's only Chuck's (and Kim's) expressed disapproval that causes him to reconsider his actions in that instance. Jimmy is an adult. He's responsible for his own choices. He can't blame all his poor behavior on Chuck being mean to him. Eventually, the buck has to stop with himself.
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May 21, 2017 09:00
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I've been slowly going through Breaking Bad again as background noise while working and also listening to the Insider podcasts for the first time. Kelly Dixon has taught me that even if you're as deeply involved with the making of a show as she is as an editor, you can still misunderstand or miss an obvious point in a scene as badly as shmucks on the internet.
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May 21, 2017 11:13
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Restrained Crown Posse posted:I've been slowly going through Breaking Bad again as background noise while working and also listening to the Insider podcasts for the first time. Kelly Dixon has taught me that even if you're as deeply involved with the making of a show as she is as an editor, you can still misunderstand or miss an obvious point in a scene as badly as shmucks on the internet. I would hope that an editor would be in on all of the subtlety and meanings, just like the writers and directors. Editors (and directors) decide how any form of film is presented to you, so the last thing I'd want would for an editor to not fully grasp everything that's happening. Now, granted, that's when the issue is dealing with something within their control; if Jimmy's wardrobe were to slowly change in colour over the course of these seasons to reflect how he was feeling, I can see an editor missing that, and it not mattering to them, in that case. Out of curiosity, what did she miss? I haven't listened yet.
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May 21, 2017 11:33
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Cnut the Great posted:Davis & Main didn't look ridiculous, they just looked stuffy and boring--but ultimately more professional than what Jimmy was offering them. Jimmy's was a flamboyant, ambulance-chasing lawyer type commercial that would have tarnished Davis & Main's public and professional reputation. It was a perfect fit for who Jimmy was, but it was a damaging and selfish thing to do to the people he worked for, who had treated him with nothing but encouragement and kindness and put their trust in him. Personal responsibility? In Jimmy? Inconceivable!
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May 21, 2017 14:33
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Pedro De Heredia posted:
It does not intentionally make D&M look ridiculous, the very first introduction of the company we see one of the head honcho's casually playing guitar in his office and making sure that everything is up to Jimmy's satisfaction after Jimmy just looked around his fantastic office with friendly staff in the other room who will offer help to anyone in an instant if they ask. The issue was pretty reasonable , he went over the heads of his superiors to put out an advertisement that could send entirely the wrong message about the image of the company, with no attempt to run it by people who he needs to run it by. And this is basically five minutes after he gets hired at the place. They give him a second chance and put the whole event behind them, but Jimmy gets cold feet and out come bagpipes and juicers which further implies he has no regard for the slightest bit of professionalism. D&M was pretty clearly meant to be just about the best possible break in the business that Jimmy could receive, and show that there's something very deeply rooted in Jimmy that prevents him from being comfortable working in such an environment.
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May 21, 2017 16:58
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Davis & Main look ridiculous for hiring Jimmy in the first place
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May 21, 2017 18:35
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Guys, it was because of the goddamned coffee cup holder.
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May 21, 2017 18:43
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hiddenmovement posted:Davis & Main look ridiculous for hiring Jimmy in the first place He looked good on paper, he came with a reference from Howard Hamlin himself, and he comes across as a likable, personable guy when you meet him. What was so ridiculous about it? Rupert Buttermilk posted:Guys, it was because of the goddamned coffee cup holder. If the coffee holder had been just a little bit bigger, Jimmy never would have broken bad, he never would have been there as Saul to help and enable Walter White, Mike would still be alive, and countless people's lives would have been saved from forfeit or ruin. Jimmy just wanted to be a good boy....but those goddamned tyrants at Big Coffee Holder just. wouldn't. let him.
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May 21, 2017 20:32
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Cnut the Great posted:Davis & Main didn't look ridiculous, they just looked stuffy and boring--but ultimately more professional than what Jimmy was offering them. I think it's a little more complicated than that. In the first few episodes of season 2 it's established that davis and main is much more liberal than HHM. there's an open office, lot of new-age aesthetic, and they're willing to acquiesce on all of jimmy's weird sign-on requests like the new desk. I think the intention there was to show that even the most relaxed environment for a big-name law firm would be too constraining for Jimmy.
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May 22, 2017 00:54
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The cup holder was such a hilariously on the nose metaphor, I loved it
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May 22, 2017 01:43
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Venuz Patrol posted:I think it's a little more complicated than that. In the first few episodes of season 2 it's established that davis and main is much more liberal than HHM. there's an open office, lot of new-age aesthetic, and they're willing to acquiesce on all of jimmy's weird sign-on requests like the new desk. I think the intention there was to show that even the most relaxed environment for a big-name law firm would be too constraining for Jimmy. Agreed. Davis & Main was chill as gently caress, and everyone there was bodacious.
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May 22, 2017 02:00
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Open offices are a scourge and probably precipitated Jimmy’s break.
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May 22, 2017 02:07
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Colonel Whitey posted:The cup holder was such a hilariously on the nose metaphor, I loved it Agreed. It was absolutely impossible to miss that it was a metaphor for Jimmy having a huge, girthy cock. Not sure what that had to do with the themes or story of the show, though. One of Vince's rare creative misfires, I guess.
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May 22, 2017 03:11
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Cnut the Great posted:Agreed. It was absolutely impossible to miss that it was a metaphor for Jimmy having a huge, girthy cock. Not sure what that had to do with the themes or story of the show, though. One of Vince's rare creative misfires, I guess. Obviously Jimmy's comically oversized dong is being juxtaposed with his impotence in his professional life (i.e. his inability to "get it up" for Davis and Main) for ironic comedic effect; furthermore,
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May 22, 2017 03:32
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The insider podcast is good but whenever Vince gets on a soapbox about "instant gratification nowadays" I wanna sock him in the gut.
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May 22, 2017 04:10
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If the cup doesn't fit, you must acquit.NO LISTEN TO ME posted:The insider podcast is good but whenever Vince gets on a soapbox about "instant gratification nowadays" I wanna sock him in the gut. That's why I stopped listening halfway through last season. During Breaking Bad him being old and out of touch was endearing since it's why so much of the music and references (Ice Station Zebra Associates, the desert episode that was a remake of The Flight of the Phoenix with an RV) were anachronistic and cool and he was very humble and sweet about it, but success and age seems to be getting to his head in a bad way.
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May 22, 2017 04:15
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Cnut the Great posted:Agreed. It was absolutely impossible to miss that it was a metaphor for Jimmy having a huge, girthy cock. Not sure what that had to do with the themes or story of the show, though. One of Vince's rare creative misfires, I guess. Lmao
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May 22, 2017 04:58
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I actually don't get the coffee cup and the cup holder metaphor, gently caress me.
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May 22, 2017 05:00
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Turtlicious posted:I actually don't get the coffee cup and the cup holder metaphor, gently caress me. Jimmy's cup doesn't fit in the new holder, just like Jimmy doesn't fit at D&M
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May 22, 2017 05:13
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hiddenmovement posted:Jimmy's cup doesn't fit in the new holder, just like Jimmy doesn't fit at D&M and then later he gets fed up and just rips out the frame, damaging the car but leaving a nice large square hole into which he jams his round cup it's like poetry, it rhymes
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May 22, 2017 05:15
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Platystemon posted:Open offices are a scourge and probably precipitated Jimmy’s break. I agree that open offices are terrible, but Jimmy had his own office.
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May 22, 2017 05:18
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The Human Crouton posted:I agree that open offices are terrible, but Jimmy had his own office. Didn't all the attorneys have offices and admin staff were in the open? That's not really an "open" office.
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May 22, 2017 05:22
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Colonel Whitey posted:The cup holder was such a hilariously on the nose metaphor, I loved it Yeah, it was one of the few things I could immediately pick up without having to read things on the internet after watching the episode. It made me feel smart. Thanks, Vince!
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May 22, 2017 11:09
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Chuck may have hosed himself more than he realizes. Back in the pilot, it was Howard Hamlin who was trying to get Chuck to accept much less than his rightful stake...and Jimmy who insisted Chuck hold out for more. Howard isn't Chuck's friend.
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May 22, 2017 15:40
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Someone suggested in this thread a while back and the more I think about it the more I agree - I used to think Chuck and Jimmy were going down in flames together, but if Jimmy won the case but "lost" because of how it has compromised his personal relationships and morality, sending him further down the path of criminal lawyer while Chuck lost the case but finally seeks the help he needs and "wins" by overcoming his demons and regaining a semblance of normal life... really seems like there is potential for some powerful juxtaposition going on there. Chuck isn't committed or dead, he is healthy. Jimmy becomes the one who is isolated and alienated even as his brother returns to normalcy. Stickarts fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 15:50
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