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Oneiros posted:I guess I just don't get the focus on the $400 "juicer". To me the bigger issue is the $200/month bag of mush subscription. But people spend that much or more on all sorts of things (hello Starbucks) so I guess if you're really into juice it's not really that out of line? I dunno, I'm not in the target market. Starbucks gets away with that because our brains aren't very good at tallying up small expenses. Same can't really be said for a humongous monthly expense.
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May 22, 2017 07:05
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Oneiros posted:I guess I just don't get the focus on the $400 "juicer". To me the bigger issue is the $200/month bag of mush subscription. But people spend that much or more on all sorts of things (hello Starbucks) so I guess if you're really into juice it's not really that out of line? I dunno, I'm not in the target market. Because the juicer is completely unnecessary to the rest of the business.
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May 22, 2017 08:08
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Oneiros posted:I guess I just don't get the focus on the $400 "juicer". To me the bigger issue is the $200/month bag of mush subscription. But people spend that much or more on all sorts of things (hello Starbucks) so I guess if you're really into juice it's not really that out of line? I dunno, I'm not in the target market. You live in the bay area and bought a 1.5k espresso machine. You are absolutely the target market.
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May 22, 2017 14:49
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MiddleOne posted:Starbucks gets away with that because our brains aren't very good at tallying up small expenses. Same can't really be said for a humongous monthly expense. That dosen't explain away the rise of the Keurig, which is what the company was trying to sell it as (KEURIG FOR JUICE, KEURIG FOR JUICE!!!). The Keurig is really dumb, but at least it serves a purpose. It's hard and time consuming to make good espresso based coffee at home, so it''s purpose is to make not super terrible cappuccinos at the home or office for slightly less than Starbucks (Not that i would ever ever buy such a terrible waste of money). I dunno, is the market that big for juice? Is the difference so huge from fresh cold press vs just buying a loving box at the supermarket? Juice is served cold, does it lose all the flavor after 2 hours? Why not go to the many places that offers freshly pressed Juice? IDGI.
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May 22, 2017 15:49
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Keurigs don't necessarily make espresso, it's mostly semi instant coffee.
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May 22, 2017 15:55
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exploded mummy posted:Keurigs don't necessarily make espresso, it's mostly semi instant coffee. Keurigs also make coffee that is less stale than the communal jug that's been sitting around for hours.
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May 22, 2017 16:02
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White Rock posted:
keurig is for offices or other commercial applications where you need to provide coffee to a high volume of people and dont want to mess around with pots sitting on burners. it doesnt make espresso, just crappy flavored coffee
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May 22, 2017 16:02
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exploded mummy posted:Keurigs don't necessarily make espresso, it's mostly semi instant coffee. Yeah, thats a nepresso.
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May 22, 2017 16:02
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People *like* crappy flavored coffee, though. Ask Starbucks. The Keurig lets Fred make his crappy flavored coffee without tainting everybody else's.
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May 22, 2017 16:02
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Oneiros posted:I guess I just don't get the focus on the $400 "juicer". To me the bigger issue is the $200/month bag of mush subscription. But people spend that much or more on all sorts of things (hello Starbucks) so I guess if you're really into juice it's not really that out of line? I dunno, I'm not in the target market. If I were to go to the Starbucks down the street and spend $200 a month on drinks there, I could get like 40 servings of 20 ounces of coffee or so (maybe 16 ounce in some areas as prices vary), basically 2 a workday. Or you could get 30 servings of the large coffee with a whole bunch of other stuff on them that basically make a dessert or milkshake out of it. If I spend $200 a month on Juicero packs, I'm getting about 30 packs a month, and each is 8 ounces or less of the juice. It's more like 25 servings if you pick the more expensive packs. Honestly if someone's really into juice, you'd think they'd want more than a single cup a day. And so to match just the sheer amount of drink you get from Starbucks for 200 bucks, you need to start spending like 400 to 600 on juicero packs.
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May 22, 2017 16:05
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fishmech posted:Honestly if someone's really into juice, you'd think they'd want more than a single cup a day. And so to match just the sheer amount of drink you get from Starbucks for 200 bucks, you need to start spending like 400 to 600 on juicero packs. Random thought: I think wheatgrass is still a Thing, and the Juicero doesn't do that.
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May 22, 2017 16:09
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The Juicero is a well designed and manufactured piece of equipment, and kind of a steal at $400 (see video below), which is a fairly typical price for nice kitchen appliances anyway (think KitchenAid mixers, BlendTec, etc). But as a complete package, it's just a perfect storm of SV ridiculousness:
ANIME AKBAR posted:As an engineer, I really wasn't prepared for seeing this. Seeing so many huge, perfectly machined/molded parts in a loving kitchen appliance is just staggering. He spends a bunch of time looking at the electronics, but all those PCBs and parts probably cost about the same as one of those ground pins. The designers probably made millions in profits off of this job.
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May 22, 2017 16:09
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Is the market for Juicero basically Buster Bluth?
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May 22, 2017 16:09
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mobby_6kl posted:The Juicero is a well designed and manufactured piece of equipment, and kind of a steal at $400 (see video below), which is a fairly typical price for nice kitchen appliances anyway (think KitchenAid mixers, BlendTec, etc). But as a complete package, it's just a perfect storm of SV ridiculousness: I have single-purpose appliances -- I have a jam maker, for pity's sake -- but they didn't cost $700 at first release. The jam maker, bought new soon after it was introduced, was $100, and I can use it with my own produce. (Before you mock, I used to do a lot of jam making, but I'm disabled and can't stand for 30 minutes in front of the stove any more.) There's a bigger market for a $100 appliance than for a $400 appliance, just by nature of the cost.
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May 22, 2017 16:15
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It's really unfair to call the Juicero a juicer at all. It's a hilariously over-engineered DRM locked bag pressing contraption that can dispense exactly ten varieties of overpriced juice, while real juicers allow a near limitless variety of fruit and vegetable combinations. mobby_6kl posted:
Tech bros to the rescue! quote:“Reefill has advantages over both in that it provides the consumer with a product of equal quality and convenience to bottled water, only without the waste and high cost, and is far more convenient than water brought from home,school, or work since the consumer on-the-go need not worry about running low; our dense network allows for frequent refilling and lets members carry smaller, collapsible water bottles,” said Pessel.  
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May 22, 2017 17:40
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Gods honest, this thread is stressing me out talking about $1500 for an espresso machine and a subscription juicer. it feels like we live on different planets.
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May 22, 2017 18:14
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Chakan posted:Gods honest, this thread is stressing me out talking about $1500 for an espresso machine and a subscription juicer. it feels like we live on different planets. I ate beans and rice for the last two weeks.
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May 22, 2017 18:28
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Chakan posted:Gods honest, this thread is stressing me out talking about $1500 for an espresso machine and a subscription juicer. it feels like we live on different planets. If it makes you feel better, I spent ~1k on a nice ceramic smoker, but that sucker will last for at least a decade and dispenses phenomenal barbecue. Edit: it's also not wifi enabled, so I may have been ripped off.
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May 22, 2017 18:38
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Dirk the Average posted:If it makes you feel better, I spent ~1k on a nice ceramic smoker, but that sucker will last for at least a decade and dispenses phenomenal barbecue. But without QR codes on every piece of brisket and an internet connection how will you know when your meat is rotten?
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May 22, 2017 18:44
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White Rock posted:That dosen't explain away the rise of the Keurig, which is what the company was trying to sell it as (KEURIG FOR JUICE, KEURIG FOR JUICE!!!). Juicero juice packets are about 10-12 times as expensive (depending on which packs you subscribe to) as the Keurig coffee pods. Considering that both of these products fill one cup that's not exactly a good value proposition. Coffee pods while more expensive than the alternative aren't really 'expensive' in any real sense. 3 cups of Keurig is only 2.4$ dollars, which is still way less than say Starbucks. Plus, the Keurig actually fills a niche by being a compact machine capable of pushing out semi-decent vast arrays of coffee without being humongous like actual coffee machines, or you know the loving Juicero. Finally, there is the fact that while coffee is a daily essential for most people juice is just... Not. EDIT: That no VC actually did the mental calculation on this business model indicates just how desperate they have become for capital outlets. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 18:59 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 18:55
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MiddleOne posted:. The business model of juicero makes pretty good sense though. They're selling to rich idiots with a product that's massively overpriced even compared to the expenses of their shipping method. They'd have to try hard to lose money with that
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May 22, 2017 19:03
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MiddleOne posted:Juicero juice packets are about 10-12 times as expensive (depending on which packs you subscribe to) as the Keurig coffee pods. Considering that both of these products fill one cup that's not exactly a good value proposition. Coffee pods while more expensive than the alternative aren't really 'expensive' in any real sense. 3 cups of Keurig is only 2.4$ dollars, which is still way less than say Starbucks. Plus, the Keurig actually fills a niche by being a compact machine capable of pushing out semi-decent vast arrays of coffee without being humongous like actual coffee machines, or you know the loving Juicero. Finally, there is the fact that while coffee is a daily essential for most people juice is just... Not. And you can just by reusable k-cups, even with the silly DRM keurig has now. Also there's a video online of someone just squeezing the Juicero packet with their hands and getting as much juice out as with the machine.
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May 22, 2017 19:05
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fishmech posted:The business model of juicero makes pretty good sense though. They're selling to rich idiots with a product that's massively overpriced even compared to the expenses of their shipping method. They'd have to try hard to lose money with that It's really not and actually terrible. Like I listed, it lacks everything that makes the Keurig a competitive product.
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May 22, 2017 19:12
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MiddleOne posted:It's really not and actually terrible. Like I listed, it lacks everything that makes the Keurig a competitive product. organic vegetable juice will never be as big of a market as coffee so the only growth you can get is by milking the poo poo out of your small pool of customers
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May 22, 2017 19:17
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Juice bars and juicers are already doing that.
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May 22, 2017 19:19
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MiddleOne posted:It's really not and actually terrible. Like I listed, it lacks everything that makes the Keurig a competitive product. Er Keurig is "competitive" because coffee is popular. Weird cold pressed juice fans are a very small market, but juicero stuff is so overpriced that they take a tidy profit on the small market. It's not going to make the company worth $100 billion or anything, but the business model should hold up until a different juice fad happens. Huzanko posted:And you can just by reusable k-cups, even with the silly DRM keurig has now. And? You have to buy a machine anyway, to buy the juice packs. They don't sell the packs by themselves.
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May 22, 2017 19:26
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fishmech posted:Er Keurig is "competitive" because coffee is popular. Weird cold pressed juice fans are a very small market, but juicero stuff is so overpriced that they take a tidy profit on the small market. It's not going to make the company worth $100 billion or anything, but the business model should hold up until a different juice fad happens. Not at their current capital investments and loss per customer acquisition. If they had grown organically that might be the case but we are talking about a VC-funded startup here. Do I need to remind you that they cut the machine price by 300$ just within the last year, that is not the signs of a product meeting sales expectations. Furthermore, juicing is a trend and subscriptions services do not typically have good retention numbers unless their pricing is very low or their product is essential to the consumers lifestyle. Nothing about this business plan works. They have no target audience, they have no competitive edge against their competitors and with their capital intensive customer acquisitions and slow return on capital they're just one liquidity crunch away from bankruptcy. More likely than not the Juicero will not get the funding for another round and simply go bankrupt.
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May 22, 2017 19:35
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nm posted:Yeah, thats a nepresso. Okay i guess i confused the two because then i have no idea why Keurig exists. I guess convenience wins every time?
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May 22, 2017 19:35
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White Rock posted:Okay i guess i confused the two because then i have no idea why Keurig exists. I guess convenience wins every time? First mover advantage I think. In Europe Nespresso dominates the office and restaurant scene and is actually even cheaper per cup than Keurig. Not that such facts have stopped them from struggling with off-brand pods that work in their machines. For reference the Juicero is about 150$ more expensive than a nespresso machine. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 19:38
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White Rock posted:Okay i guess i confused the two because then i have no idea why Keurig exists. I guess convenience wins every time? keurig is a drat goofy and wasteful device but it does solve real but minor problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROiid4RpLUI
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May 22, 2017 19:45
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I've seen Keurigs+pods in waiting rooms of doctors. They are a pretty good way to provide guests coffee without having to fill and clean big metal heated thermoses that dispense only 3 flavors of lovely coffee.
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May 22, 2017 19:59
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MiddleOne posted:Not at their current capital investments and loss per customer acquisition. If they had grown organically that might be the case but we are talking about a VC-funded startup here. Do I need to remind you that they cut the machine price by 300$ just within the last year, that is not the signs of a product meeting sales expectations. Furthermore, juicing is a trend and subscriptions services do not typically have good retention numbers unless their pricing is very low or their product is essential to the consumers lifestyle.
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May 22, 2017 20:28
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Ok Uber, we'll let you use our city to test your autonomous vehicles in exchange for free rides and your support to revamp our transportation infrastructure. Surely with your fine, upstanding record as a company you'd never renege on the deal and come back to bite us in the a..quote:Nine months later, Pittsburgh residents and officials say Uber has not lived up to its end of the bargain. Among Uber’s perceived transgressions: The company began charging for driverless rides that were initially pitched as free. It also withdrew support from Pittsburgh’s application for a $50 million federal grant to revamp transportation. And it has not created the jobs it proposed in a struggling neighborhood that houses its autonomous car testing track. Not a problem. This can easily be resolved by reading the contract between Pittsburgh's mayor and Uber to see what the company was required to provi... quote:While Mr. Peduto had trumpeted his relationship with Uber’s chief executive, Travis Kalanick, he didn’t get any commitments in writing about what the company would provide for Pittsburgh. 
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May 22, 2017 21:02
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boner confessor posted:keurig is a drat goofy and wasteful device but it does solve real but minor problems So does having an office linebacker Actually that solves a lot of other ones too.
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May 22, 2017 21:05
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exploded mummy posted:So does having an office linebacker
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May 22, 2017 22:11
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boner confessor posted:keurig is a drat goofy and wasteful device but it does solve real but minor problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOMAxuWg1GQ Coworker and I did a hackathon where we made a coffeepot + camera + alexa device so you could find out who made the last cup of coffee. We also hooked it up to twitter so you could shame them on social media. We split 7k in amazon giftcards for a Dallas hackathon and then were invited all expenses paid to Vegas by ATT to compete where we split 10k cash for coming in second. I can't tell you how many people thought we were actually trying to make a real business out of this instead of just loving around.
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May 22, 2017 23:30
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poemdexter posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOMAxuWg1GQ Ah, returning to the original invention of the webcam: finding out if coffee is available, and if not, seeing if you can see what fucker took the last bit.
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May 22, 2017 23:51
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Keurig's packs don't have a failure mode that offers bonus simultaneous diarrhea and vomiting. Look at this person who's never tried Keurig "coffee."
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May 23, 2017 00:05
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like 75% of the people in my office just use the keurig as an electric kettle to make tea lol
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May 23, 2017 00:31
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White Rock posted:Okay i guess i confused the two because then i have no idea why Keurig exists. I guess convenience wins every time? They originally were made to target the worst coffee supply imaginable: the communal office coffee pot. They cornered the market in office coffee supply and were bought out by a coffee roaster and distributor, and rode a vertical integration boom. They had managed to nab a technological edge, supply chain advantage, and a brand name. Then they moved into the residential market where it targeted similar issues and played up more of the convenience angle. Juicero kind of decided to jump to where it took over a decade for Keurig, with ignoring what it took Keurig to get there, and that's not touching the advantages that coffee has over juice in terms of popularity, production, and health impact.
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May 23, 2017 00:36
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