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Last Chance posted:i think they're talking about the java ui toolkit for macOS that apple provided for some time yes webobjects and the ui toolkit have the same origin
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May 25, 2017 01:05
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Sapozhnik posted:the situation is the same everywhere, to a greater or lesser extent. not really, the only toolkits that matter for regular apps on macOS and iOS are AppKit and UIKit, respectively people may use lots of custom controls in their apps, may write parts of their apps in JavaScript, etc. but by and large they're using those system frameworks
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May 25, 2017 01:16
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there's WebKit, there's Qt, there's whatever godawful UI abstraction toolkit Adobe uses internally, maybe some crusty old applications port to osx by linking against wine although wine never works worth a poo poo so probably not. but yeah mostly WebKit these days. Hey, maybe they'll even use the system version instead of vendoring it. also you used to have both carbon and cocoa and then apple deprecated carbon when they went 64-bit. so if you want to make an osx ui then you had to have some objective-c poo poo in your application. macos to this day has not made any serious inroads into the desktop market, people mostly use macs to browse facebook, use adobe products, or do web development which is mostly cli based with a dash of text editing.
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May 25, 2017 01:23
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:yes webobjects and the ui toolkit have the same origin WebObjects is where the Java bridge was first implemented, since WO was an Objective-C framework like Foundation, AppKit, and the Enterprise Objects Framework; its design was of course originally modeled on AppKit but diverged pretty quickly (that was in 1994, so the OpenStep AppKit was a lot smaller too—GNUstep seemed like a feasible project then!) the Java bridge was significantly revised for Mac OS X 10.0 to allow access to AppKit and Foundation from Java, without rewriting AppKit and Foundation in Java, so developers who freaked out at learning a different language could still write apps, and it worked OK for that (I used it on some consulting projects) I can't remember if the Java bridge was discontinued in Mac OS X 10.5 or 10.6, but it was deprecated in 10.4 and we stopped supporting new API via the bridge at that point as well WebObjects and EOF themselves were rewritten in Java as of WebObjects 5, released for Mac OS X 10.0, so they didn't need any additional runtime for deployment; this made it possible to deploy on Mac OS X, Solaris, Linux, AIX, Windows, whatever, though only Mac OS X, Solaris, and Windows were officially supported
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May 25, 2017 01:27
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Last Chance posted:i think they're talking about the java ui toolkit for macOS that apple provided for some time yeah for a while there was a powerful faction in apple pushing java as the future preferred language for writing cocoa applications. that's p much why they renamed the next ui kit to "cocoa", to word associate it with java. they saw crossplat as the future of everything, probably since that's how next sort-of survived the time between being forced out of building their own hardware and getting bought by apple. they wanted to be the best toolkit on the language that seemed destined to be the lingua franca of the non microsoft world. at the time the future of the mac was still very much in doubt so they needed some kind of escape hatch next to nobody actually wrote cocoa apps in java though and some time around 10.3 or 10.4 (iirc) they abandoned the java bindings. probably around the same time they settled on objc and a cocoa fork as the basis of ios, and i bet the decisions were related e: f, b by someone who actually knows BobHoward fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 02:22
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very informative all, ty
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May 25, 2017 02:38
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Sapozhnik posted:there's WebKit, there's Qt, there's whatever godawful UI abstraction toolkit Adobe uses internally, maybe some crusty old applications port to osx by linking against wine although wine never works worth a poo poo so probably not. oh yeah all those Qt and Webkit mac apps
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May 25, 2017 03:40
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posting on page 420
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May 25, 2017 03:41
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whats that thing that spotify and slack use, the chromium thing. too lazy to google it and dont care
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May 25, 2017 13:14
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Last Chance posted:whats that thing that spotify and slack use, the chromium thing. too lazy to google it and dont care electron or nw.js
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May 25, 2017 13:18
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Last Chance posted:whats that thing that spotify and slack use, the chromium thing. too lazy to google it and dont care ur mam
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May 25, 2017 13:22
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spankmeister posted:ur mam ugh, open sores
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May 25, 2017 16:57
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Toady posted:oh yeah all those Qt and Webkit mac apps there are lots and lots of trendy new mac (and windows, and linux! look how cross-platform we are!!) apps that are just webkit in a box, in fact this describes most desktop versions of """mobile-first""" applications.
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May 25, 2017 17:13
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if only there was a way to deliver HTML5 applications transparently over the internet without needing to install them locally and having to bundle them with an HTML5 runtime. and people weren't able to block our ads. this is the real reason why electron exists fyi
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May 25, 2017 17:20
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let i hug posted:does btrfs support running on a cluster as opposed to one computer with a fuckton of drives connected to it? seems like a very pre-2000 mindset whoops, my beowulf cluster
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May 25, 2017 21:49
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el dorito posted:posting on page 420 the weed number
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May 26, 2017 08:52
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0 0 * * * smoke weed
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May 26, 2017 10:01
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blazing like a microsoft sql server 2000 over here
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May 26, 2017 10:11
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Soricidus posted:20 16 * * * smoke weed ftfy 
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May 26, 2017 11:55
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spankmeister posted:ftfy
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May 26, 2017 21:43
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spankmeister posted:ftfy
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May 26, 2017 22:07
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spankmeister posted:ftfy
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May 29, 2017 14:36
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linux is good enough for 2018 camrys, the desktop of the road
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Jun 2, 2017 20:18
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I can't wait to have my car sound not work.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:13
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can't wait for someone to recompile their car with sysv init to avoid systemd
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Jun 2, 2017 22:25
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eschaton posted:can't wait for someone to recompile their car with sysv init to avoid systemd As if it's on a tech stack that new.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:33
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James Baud posted:As if it's on a tech stack that new. it is Toyota isn't the first user of Linux in cars, they're the first adopter of "automotive grade Linux," a project pushing a relatively modern and un-hosed Linux for caes
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Jun 5, 2017 14:14
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based on tizen though, so one can presume that the plot is that if you buy a toyota you will find yourself swerving into oncoming traffic for making fun of rastermans work in the past didn't we have some great quotes from a code review of tizen and especially the wonky enlightenment-derived egl stuff being absolutely awful recently?
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Jun 5, 2017 14:21
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:based on tizen though, so one can presume that the plot is that if you buy a toyota you will find yourself swerving into oncoming traffic for making fun of rastermans work in the past and Toyota doesn't have the best record on software in cars...
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Jun 5, 2017 14:23
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all this chat has gotten me looking at AGL and it's really very impressive they're using systemd very productively -- namespacing, targets for everything, etc, in order to isolate applications from one another for security they are using Xen w/ separate DomUs for core automotive poo poo and the entertainment systems, so that 3rd party applications can never have access to unexpected things unfortunately i can't find any documentation about actually writing applications on the thing. i hope it's not still that egl mess
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Jun 5, 2017 15:50
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I think I read something about this AGL being done for cost reasons because ofc it'd be cheaper to have just one computer instead of a whole bunch the approach to security would then be to use some Xen variant for "securely" segregating VM's. I can't wait for someone to rowhammer their way out of the sandbox from the entertainment system and own the entire car
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Jun 5, 2017 15:54
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I would be very surprised if manufacturers allowed users to install and run programs of any kind on the actual automotive hardware as opposed to a communications interface like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Imagine the kind of headaches you'd get from users who find that their favorite applications are deprecated or do not work, or if a must-have app (pokemon go) doesn't work with their car. Let the phone manufacturers deal with that crazy morass. On a similar vein, I would be very surprised if they let you run a web browser that could view the forums. As for actual sanctioned developers, there is the AGL spec which probably details the api and the mechanisms to talk with other components. But I can't seem to fetch it - it's giving me a 404.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:32
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let us all remember that Tesla cars run a modified version of Ubuntu hopefully they didn't bet on Mir!
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Jun 5, 2017 16:35
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el dorito posted:I would be very surprised if manufacturers allowed users to install and run programs of any kind on the actual automotive hardware as opposed to a communications interface like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Imagine the kind of headaches you'd get from users who find that their favorite applications are deprecated or do not work, or if a must-have app (pokemon go) doesn't work with their car. Let the phone manufacturers deal with that crazy morass. there are already cars that allow you to install and run programs. e.g. all fiat-chrysler products with u-connect (i have no idea why one might want to install an app, but it is certainly possible) el dorito posted:As for actual sanctioned developers, there is the AGL spec which probably details the api and the mechanisms to talk with other components. But I can't seem to fetch it - it's giving me a 404. i found a slide deck and it appears a lot of the communication with the, err, "automotive" parts is done over dbus one the one hand, that's not a completely terrible idea on the other hand, lol latency
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Jun 5, 2017 16:39
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xen? why not kvm i wonder, seems like that's been the current hotness for a while now (posting on teh weed page)
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Jun 5, 2017 16:41
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less than a month until Fedora 26, but I can't seem to find anything groudbreaking in the changes list https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/26/ChangeSet
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Jun 5, 2017 16:44
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el dorito posted:less than a month until Fedora 26, but I can't seem to find anything groudbreaking in the changes list good news, gstreamer video playback is now completely loving broken on hidpi displays even better news, that's such a cool feature that they backported it to fedora 25 rofl 
Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 16:51
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Sapozhnik posted:good news, gstreamer video playback is now completely loving broken on hidpi displays they completely broke totem's playlist support for no reason other than it didn't fit the ui paradigm and I don't want to use rhythmbox or other crap because I want a lightweight player that doesn't need to scan my home directory all the time for new music and take up memory with databases I want to love audacious but it doesn't support media keys so I actually have to tab over to the application to pause music 1st world problems but I was similarly angry at gnome shell and its anemic compromise, gnome classic.
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Jun 5, 2017 17:12
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new gnome is always nice dnf 2 fixes a bug or missing feature i had a while back that i cant remember now fedora modular looks interesting but it 's probably a giant developer shop only feature looks like mostly a big plumbing release though i used clementine as a media player. it's fine but its no Foobar2000
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Jun 5, 2017 17:18
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el dorito posted:let us all remember that Tesla cars run a modified version of Ubuntu on mir they just used pencils
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Jun 5, 2017 17:46
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