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King Vidiot posted:
The games themselves sold fine and generally got a good reception. The developers though, Sumo Digital, are likely just caught up in other games. They recently finished Snake Pass and are currently slated as the devs on Crackdown 3, so maybe not soon. But I don't see why they can't make another one in the future. Barudak posted:Outside of extremely short no obstacle flying portions of MK8, the transformations in MK8 dont actually impact how the game controls or plays at all, which is unambiguously the better choice over what Racing Transformed chose. The transformations in Transformed are precisely why I enjoyed it over normal Mario Karts. It's not good for casuals, but then again Transformed in general was never trying hard for casuals like MK does.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:20
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Shadow Hog posted:Well, almost. Apparently the entire soundtrack was going to be something on tier with this, but very late in development they lost the rights to all the music they were going to use, and had to make do with sonic midis they found online roughly mapped to the Nintendo DS's default soundfont.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:45
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Gammatron 64 posted:Fun embarrassing fact about me: the first time I ever posted on an internet forum, it was on Sonic Fan Games HQ in like 1998 or whatever. I've actually talked to the Taxman and Stealth like 20 years ago but I doubt they'd remember me. I was a little kid trying to make garbage games in The Games Factory. SonicCult was the first forum that I really hung around on, I'm pretty sure that Stealth used to post there often. I actually changed my handle because of Taxman. I used to go by The_Tax_Man but people kept thinking I was Taxman so I eventually changed it to Veovis (a character from one of the Myst books I was reading at the time) but the unoriginality of it got to me so I changed it again to Veotax, apparently I'm the only person on the internet who goes by that so I managed to stumble into a unique name.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:06
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Veotax posted:SonicCult was the first forum that I really hung around on, I'm pretty sure that Stealth used to post there often. It's a small world, huh? Straaaaaaange, isn't it?
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Jun 20, 2017 19:07
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Kurieg posted:Apparently the entire soundtrack was going to be something on tier with this, but very late in development they lost the rights to all the music they were going to use, and had to make do with sonic midis they found online roughly mapped to the Nintendo DS's default soundfont. From http://vgmusic.com/, no joke. ImpAtom posted:Have you actually played Sonic Utopia? It plays really badly. It's incredibly awkward and outside of the proof-of-concept part isn't actually very fun or interesting either and there's no real indication the playstyle could translate easily to enjoyable levels. No way! It controls different than Adventure games and takes some getting used to, but it's no Lost World there. The open, multiple sprawling and converging paths are effective in 3D, but designing levels like that is absurdly more involved than a linear track floating in a void. Ineat to make your own routes in Sonic games in general, and while the 3D games are very restrictive there what choice the player does get in 3D Sonic now is nice. Maybe somewhere in the middle of the two level designs would be nice? Sonic Adventure kind of does this with the late section of Speed Highway and Knuckles levels, and I admit it's not super there. There is no one set way 3D gameplay for a series should go however. Among the 3D Marios, 64 and Sunshine are going in a very different direction than the Galaxy and 3D World/Land games. A new hedgehog engine game every few years sounds good, but that doesn't have to be where we draw the line. There is still room for the Booms and Lost Worlds to... oh, yeah...
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Jun 20, 2017 19:34
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Sonic Utopia controls just fine. Not perfect but as a proof-of-concept it gets the point across perfectly well.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:38
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It's been a while since I've played Utopia, but I recall it controlled okay; it's its level design that I thought was lacking.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:45
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Heran Bago posted:No way! It controls different than Adventure games and takes some getting used to, but it's no Lost World there. You're right. Lost World unironically controls better. People give Utopia a huge amount of leeway because it's a proof-of-concept and ignore the fact that the only reason it 'works' is because it isn't trying anything more than having Sonic run on a wide open space with minimal to no precision necessary or considered. It really, wholeheartedly, ironically has a ton of design problems and any criticism of them is met with "Well it's an unfinished tech demo!!!" which is annoying as hell when used in conjunction with "but if it was finished it would for-sure be the best Sonic thing ever!" When Sonic Utopia has actual level design and proves that it can handle the precision platforming and environment design that is as big a part of Sonic as 'going fast' then I might agree but it won't ever actually for obvious reasons,.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:05
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Veotax posted:SonicCult was the first forum that I really hung around on, I'm pretty sure that Stealth used to post there often.ntly I'm the only person on the internet who goes by that so I managed to stumble into a unique name. Gammatron 64 posted:Fun embarrassing fact about me: the first time I ever posted on an internet forum, it was on Sonic Fan Games HQ in like 1998 or whatever. I've actually talked to the Taxman and Stealth like 20 years ago but I doubt they'd remember me. I was a little kid trying to make garbage games in The Games Factory. Among my first internet forums was The Mystical Forest Zone, I used to love that ol' InSonicnia comic back in the day. So you're not alone in that shame. edit: Also, I used to make my own Sonic sprite comics back when I was a teenager and they were pretty drat good for being done in MS Paint 
CJacobs fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 20:06
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They call me super sonic because I live my life one ring at a time...
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Jun 20, 2017 20:18
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Overbite posted:Sonic doesn't really work in 3D. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZREH9PYHAY (Just the first 20 seconds, I couldn't find a clip of that on its own.)
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Jun 20, 2017 20:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAyDGWOooas
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Jun 20, 2017 20:40
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Overbite posted:Sonic doesn't really work in 3D. There is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't, Sega is just bad.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:05
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King Vidiot posted:I know it was Dimps I was just listing well (or ish) received Sonic games that I could think of. Have your tried playing it with friends Sonics racing is indeed an awesome game but the skill cap is way higher so it's not fun to bust out at parties/when hanging with your drunk friends. Also the items suck
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Jun 20, 2017 22:12
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http://www.tssznews.com/2016/11/05/reasonable-assessment-sonic-can-work-in-3d/ This is a good article on why stuff like Utopia making literal translations don't wholly work, why you can't just map 2D Sonic onto 3D Sonic 1:1, and some perspective on why the Adventure games did what they did. some choice parts: quote:And what’s up with the level design for these two fan games? Both feature giant, open areas with no sense of direction. The media seems to like to use “open-world” and “free-roam” to describe these games, and they’re not wrong. These stages are large playgrounds filled with loops and paths that seemed to be placed randomly and arbitrarily. There is little-to-no signposting. Nothing is leading you in any direction. Look, exploration is cool and it certainly has it’s time and place in Sonic games but you can’t make an entire Sonic game based on exploration. Obvious statement: the main objective of a Sonic level is getting to the goal ring as fast as possible. I don’t understand why people seem to think this is up for debate. Yes, there can be other sub-objectives within a stage, such as hoarding rings for bonus levels, finding hidden giant rings to get a Chaos Emerald, or obtaining a secret shield that was tucked in a nook. But those are all lower-priority objectives, many of which serve the higher objective. The main objective is still to get through the stage quickly, like a speedrunner. At SXSW this year, I was standing about 20 feet from Yuji Naka, the original programmer of Sonic 1, when he said exactly that into TwitchGaming’s microphone. But don’t take my word for it, he’s said it several times in other interviews already, here and here. Open-world is fun as a little experiment or test demo, but if we are seriously looking to successfully transition Sonic into 3D, open-world is not the way to go.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:16
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Fangames like Utopia are certainly too open, Sonic games should have a clearer sense of direction. I really dislike how binary the boost is, but Seaside Hill Modern did a pretty good job at being a densely-packed stage with lots of different ways to approach moving towards the goal without totally confusing the player. Sonic 06 went back and forth between bland hallways and inflated areas so open that you have no idea where to go, neither of which made for fun levels. I don't like the automated loops in the Adventure games. They last too long and take away all control of the player, making them more like a glorified cutscene. 3D Sonic games spam these automated set pieces way too much. Maybe one or two in a level is fine, but when you can't take a few steps without hitting a bunch of springs that carry you to your destination, or a line of boost pads, or an automated loop, or a long line of rings that you press Y to dash along, or three parallel grind rails floating over an abyss, there's a problem.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:33
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They'd bother me more if loops were ever supposed to be a challenge. They're set pieces. They exist entirely to show off.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:37
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quote:Look, exploration is cool and it certainly has it’s time and place in Sonic games but you can’t make an entire Sonic game based on exploration. B-b-but! Sonic CD! Seriously though, that's a good write up and I think the guy covers his points well about breaking down 3D sonic. I do think his point about Sonic Adventure Generations is weird though, since most of that game's level design is perfectly analogous to Unleashed/Generations, even Mystic Ruins.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:45
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Dr Snofeld posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZREH9PYHAY Sonic losing to Knuckles cause they entered a water level is really funny to me.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:06
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 who wants to get glam with the blue blur
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Jun 21, 2017 00:20
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TFRazorsaw posted:They'd bother me more if loops were ever supposed to be a challenge. They're set pieces. They exist entirely to show off. It is entirely possible and even very likely that in the classic games you will not have enough momentum to get through a loop and have to try again
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Jun 21, 2017 00:21
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Augus posted:It is entirely possible and even very likely that in the classic games you will not have enough momentum to get through a loop and have to try again Yeah, they're not just a set piece, they're a mechanic that encourages the player to maintain their speed. You must be going this fast to pass. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 00:24
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It's also absurdly easy to get through them by walking back a short distance, or a spin dash, or even using a higher route to avoid them entirely. Of all the momentum based challenges in classic Sonic they're the most trivial. And then on top of that they put a bunch of them on inclines, coming out of s-tubes, or in the case of Chemical Plant, at the end of chains of speed boosters or after halp-pipe stile curved "U" paths that are absurdly deep and thus more or less feed you all the momentum you need. Like you can technically fail at them but there's never much occasion for them to truly slow you down. In any case, this doesn't really get into why Utopia's approach to loops is flawed, because the fact they're difficult has to do with side to side movement rather than forward movement. If there's any challenge to loops, it's should be getting through one by maintaining forward momentum, not slipping out from the side.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:31
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They're not challenging but they're a challenge that pushes the player to understand a fundamental aspect of how Sonic moves.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:36
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Zelder posted:Have your tried playing it with friends I've played it online, so I know what it's like to be that drunk, bad friend without actually being drunk. The people that can play that game well really play that game well and it's scary.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:43
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King Vidiot posted:I've played it online, so I know what it's like to be that drunk, bad friend without actually being drunk. Oh yeah, definitely. Sonic racing is a very fun game but i feel it occupies a much different space than Mario kart
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Jun 21, 2017 01:14
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Is the Sonic Boom TV show as good as these clips make it seem? Cause I might have to hunt that down if so.
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Jun 21, 2017 02:30
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It has moments, but like I said earlier, for the most part it's seriously dry.
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Jun 21, 2017 02:33
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A huge part of why the old Sonic games are so fun is because you have him careening around like a pinball and it's really cool that he has momentum. I kinda hate automated loops and stuff. I've played a few fangames where the loops and wall running aren't automated and it's pretty fun. I'm pretty sure there's non-Sonic games that do this kinda thing too, but it's usually racing games like F-Zero. I've heard people say that perhaps the solution to 3D Sonic is to have him play more like you're driving a car than controlling Mario. I mean, some of the newer games even incorporate drifting. And his legs turn into wheels. Maybe instead of holding up to make Sonic go, you give him a literal gas pedal. Maybe the answer to 3D Sonic is to make a driving game crossed with Tony Hawk instead of a platformer. There's something about going fast in old Sonic games and driving like a maniac and drifting around corners and jumping off ramps that feels satisfying. Holding B to go fast and plow through baddies just isn't as fun.
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Jun 21, 2017 02:54
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Tried a bit of Lost World the other night. To be honest I don't mind the wall climbing or the dedicated run button, but the jumping feels a little weird. Like it doesn't feel like it takes you as far as it should.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:00
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Gammatron 64 posted:A huge part of why the old Sonic games are so fun is because you have him careening around like a pinball and it's really cool that he has momentum. I kinda hate automated loops and stuff. I've played a few fangames where the loops and wall running aren't automated and it's pretty fun. I'm pretty sure there's non-Sonic games that do this kinda thing too, but it's usually racing games like F-Zero. That's what Unleashed does and it's lame. The way he controlled in Adventure wasn't that far off really. Just expand his interactions with slopes. He should control pretty responsively while running but rolling into a ball sacrifices a large degree of control in exchange for massively increasing his potential speed by giving him up to momentum. You can fuckin spindash up a slope, jump, and then use your momentum upwards to reach a high platform in Adventure. That's Sonic gameplay. Just let me do more of that and make Sonic not stick to geometry so badly. This shouldn't be reinventing the wheel.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:14
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ColdPie posted:Is the Sonic Boom TV show as good as these clips make it seem? Cause I might have to hunt that down if so. The episodes do have a bunch of little moments like the clips show, but for the most part it's pretty boring. The clips are pretty much the only thing you'd need to see, so you might as well just stick to that.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:17
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ColdPie posted:Is the Sonic Boom TV show as good as these clips make it seem? Cause I might have to hunt that down if so. I've been watching it the past couple days. I'm enjoying it. As TFRazorsaw said, it doesn't have the slapstick zaniness that Adventures of Sonic had, but it's pretty enjoyable. Eggman steals every scene he's in.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:23
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Like, Sonic gameplay isn't some unattainable mystery, it's just that Sega's development process is hosed up and nobody working on these games ever knows what they're supposed to be doing, and they throw in random poo poo for marketing gimmicks because gently caress we need to show off our fishing technology somewhere. That's why 3D Sonic is never good.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:23
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I assume gimmicks in all 3D Sonic games is less a marketing thing and more of a "what's a cheap way of making these games last 8-15 hours to justify a u$60 price point?" decision. I doubt making all the assets for a dozen standard Sonic levels that can be completed in 5 minutes tops is cheap. The werehog levels in Unleashed probably make up for the majority of the gameplay since they were like 20 minutes each.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:32
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Augus posted:That's why 3D Sonic is never good. Unleashed Day Stages were a lot of fun, and so were Generations 3d stages. Sonic Colors was as good as the Genesis titles, and one of the most enjoyable games on it's system.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:39
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One of the biggest issues I saw with utopia was that the giant pretty jumps and long runs that are core to the game may look pretty, but it's just taking control away from the player for far too long, and spacing out the agency and events. The scale of everything should be tighter just to let the game be something that you're always playing.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:56
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I like Orbot and Cubot, but I do miss the vindictive rear end in a top hat nature of Scratch and Grounder. Scratch would kick a baby and laugh about it.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:06
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Detective No. 27 posted:I like Orbot and Cubot, but I do miss the vindictive rear end in a top hat nature of Scratch and Grounder. Scratch would kick a baby and laugh about it. Hahah HaHAH!
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Jun 21, 2017 05:17
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I'm very excited for Sonic Mania and wanted to do a little competition for some free keys. I'll give away three to start : 1 and 2 for the best 100 words defending your favourite of Sonic's friends that everyone else hates. Why is Big the Cat great? Why should we care about the Babylon Rogues? Any character outside of the Tails and Knuckles basically 3 goes to the goon that records the best Scratch laugh impression Deadline of I dunno, Sunday?
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Jun 21, 2017 11:15
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